PPD: The Missing Context - Why MN & Cousins Didn't Work...

Of course you are lol. You have now derailed one thread, created another and now are onto your third just to keep this nonsense Cousins defense going and troll. I already pointed out to you in your 2nd thread why comparing different years so far apart doesn't make sense (and was met with non stop trolling by you). Doing the exact same thing but with PPD isn't changing the obvious issue that the game has changed and offenses as a whole are more efficient now than 25 years ago. In 2001 the average PPD was 1.56, in 2020 it was 2.2. This is why you need to compared PPD to teams within the same year in order to have a ranking that holds context. I already did that and it showed Kirk lead offenses were slightly above average at 13-14 type on average in the league.

PPD was never the issue at hand, as I and others pointed out multiple times in that thread it is simply a better measure than PPG. Everything else pointed out in response to that initial OP from the first thread you did this in still stands as an issue in what you show here. Changing from PPD to PPG doesn't change that lol. For example in 2021 Kyler Murray had Cardinals at 2.46 which is top 6 above but only 9th compared to the rest of the league that season. Saying it is only a small difference is incredibly misleading because as you can see offenses that probably weren't even considered elite compared to their own leagues at the time end up top 10 compared to SB winners lol.



First of all in 2020 like that chart shows for KC, their PPD was 2.74 and 4th in the league, easily better than anything shown for Cousins. In fact both Allen and Cousins have had many years doing this and it is a great example of how elite QB's often lift up the offense as a whole. This season which my guess is you were trying to show, Mahomes did not have nearly as much offensive talent so it did fall off you are right. We had more offensive weapons over Cousins time here easily than they had last season but KC ranked 10th in the league in PPD even still while Cousins average the 5 healthy years was 13-14 range. The defense over the last 6 seasons between the two teams are comparable defensively but KC blows us out of the water offensively over that span. 

If you want a real discussion on the topic the first step is to stop relentlessly trolling in the same manner over and over to defend your hero after avoiding this context. Until then it is pretty blatant that you are purposely taking stats out of context to push any agenda/narritive that you think defends Kirk. If someone disagrees you will just troll and troll then create a new thread to do the same thing all over.

Yup. You already did that. But what you failed to do is show what the Vikings defense did. See, defense matters. It is a team game. And showing one side doesn't tell the whole story. So let's look at the Viking defense ppd versus the league average. OPPD DPPD League
MN 2022 2.04 2.09 1.98 0.11
MN 2021 2.08 2.11 2.05 0.06
MN 2000 2.44 2.67 2.20 0.47
MN 2019 2.29 1.75 1.94 -0.19
MN 2018 1.8 1.63 2.00 -0.37
Gee, look at that. In 2020 the league average was 2.2. While the Viking's defense was giving up 2.67 ppd.



And I love how you say,
while dismissing the next three years
2021  2.05
2022  1.92
2023  1.88

But yeah, I'm missing context. I'm the only one here talking about both sides of the ball.

Everyone knows it is a team game and if you are talking about how Cousins lead the offense then the offensive PPD matters far more for very very obvious reasons. Deflecting to show that our defense was bad for part of his time here is something no one would dispute and does nothing to change the issues many have been pointing out with Cousins. As I showed, the same is true for KC over this span yet they still had a ton of success. That's because their offense was far better than ours over that span.




I am not dismissing anything, I used a single example to prove a basic point that has already been explained to you. Every single year Cousins played here healthy (5 seasons) also happens to fall in the top 5 for the entire league having higher PPD.

So yes you are still the one obviously leaving out context and it is also very clearly to keep pushing this ridiculous agenda that everyone can see right through. Instead of looking for any way to manipulate data and avoid context, why not just use the data already provided within context? Oh that's right, context completely destroys the entire narrative, hence the games described...



Nope never said that. You are taking stats out of context. You are also deflecting to defense once context is added because the in context stats paint Kirk in a light that matches his general perception across the league instead of the narrative you are trying to push. Seperate things. 

No, the reason is because you keep trying to defend Kirk Cousins by twisting and avoiding context. The issues related to Kirk that everyone can see are related to the offenses performance with him as the focal point as QB. He does not have nearly that same level of impact on the defensive PPD so it is irrelevant to the agenda being pushed over and over by you across these threads. That is why when discussing Kirk's impact in terms of PPD the offense matters much more but the defense does not. Common sense.

You only jumped to focus on this deflecting AFTER you tried sharing out of context offensive data (ppg) etc. to prop Cousins up. Once it was exposed as missing a lot of obvious context you deflected to just focusing on the defense. That's why defensive PPD doesn't matter in the discussion, it isn't related to the QB in remotely the same way. It's also why even you started comparing PPG of Cousins to Montana trying to prop up the offensive numbers lol. You even started focusing on offense because duh.

Part of the issues for this team the last 6 years have been on defense obviously (even a larger part) but part are also on the offense as well. In terms of the QB, the offensive side of the ball will be more telling about where their impact played a bigger part. 



Yes, when discussing how to judge a QB the offensive side of the ball is much more important than the defensive side of the ball. Are you aware of how football works?



Agreed, last year was the worst year for KC recently on offense but they made up for it on defense. They also won it all with defenses ranked 15th and 21st in PPD when they were the side of the ball carrying the team. None of this at all changes the overall context, of course some years teams get carried more by one side of the ball than the other at times. As an overall trend though SB teams the last 8 seasons have leaned more offensive (just inside top 5th PPD) than defensive (just outside 10th).

All of this was already broken down in the other thread though, you just choose to troll instead of actually discussing full context. At this point what is very apparent is if you share data it will be out of context and manipulated for a specific narrative. Anyone providing data in full context will be responded to with trolling among many threads. 

Lol I have pointed this out many times over already but one last time the PPG issue, offense vs defense issue, PPD issue all related to trying to compare the NFL to many years ago when it does not make sense and so much has changed. I provided plenty of data and examples backing this up.

Also I have literally given a clear example of a great offense carrying a a defense without a good PPD. Chiefs have won the SB ranked 15th and 21st in defensive PPD. You have avoided acknowledging that over and over too then ask the same tiring questions as if it has never been done.



I actually addressed this in the last thread and specifically noted the Vikings defensive PPD compared to the Chiefs lol. This is further proof of everything being said, you are avoiding any real discussion and data to troll. You clearly haven't been reading ANYTHING I have said because it has all actually been addressed.

I even just said in this thread the defense has clearly been part of the problem, addressing why the PPD would be bad.



Yet every thread has revolved around Cousins and taking stats out of context then trolling and using strawman arguments when actual context/data is provided.

Even so, as the Chiefs show, an elite offense can carry a lesser defense. Even ones that are on average comparable to the Vikings over the last 6 years. The lack of success we had those seasons which did include 2 years of good defense too were very underwhelming. The defense lost tons of talent so that side of the ball was expected to fall off but Keenum had the offense ranked 8th in 2017 and despite keeping good weapons throughout the average offense the following 5 seasons with Kirk was in the 13-14 range. Given how much talent we had on that side of the ball compared to the defense and everything pointed out about the shift in the NFL, it is a major aspect to winning. No one has ever been saying defense doesn't matter but you keep avoiding the discussion about how the QB also matters over and over.

No matter how many times you lie and make up BS or use strawman arguments the obvious isn't going to change here. There is a reason I am able to respond to each of your posts while you pick out small parts of mine and misrepresent what has been happening for multiple threads now.

Except as was already pointed out to you in the other thread, he has ignored every opportunity to have that discussion. If you need the examples strawman, misrepresentation and lying that has followed I can do it here too.

I have included defense in multiple responses with data over multiple years in a full context type analysis. He doesn't care and still is making these accusations. This is blatant trolling to defend Kirk Cousins as has been pointed out, there is no attempt at a real response to that. If needed I will also copy over all that I have already presented which was completely ignored for this BS. 





PPD is simply a better measure than PPG in part because it actually does seperate just offense and defense along with account for pace. That's it. The trolling thread to thread to thread over it and bringing it up repeatedly is more of a sign that some are not in any way trying to respond to the actual main points or discussion.

I have never outside of this site had so many issues with the basic idea behind PPD lol.




Except I haven't been dismissing him lol. Who in this conversation is ignoring what the other is saying and which has been providing counter responses with data? Hint, I have acknowledged defense multiple times over, even with you lol. He has been ignoring it every single time for the trolling mentioned. Again, if needed I will quote this too. 

If he has a good point then he should be able to respond without the BS. From the start a counter with evidence including offense vs defense, importance of QB, using stats etc. has been met with trolling. Again if you need quotes shared of me doing this or some responses or other threads it randomly being brought up let me know. What is going on here is very very obvious.

The writing off is because of the constant trolling, not that people don't understand defense matters...

you down with O.P.P.?