The Real Reason Coaches Do Not Start Rookie QBs

whoskmoon
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The Real Reason Coaches Do Not Start Rookie QBs Jun 5, 2024 17:19:14 GMT -6 skolvikes likes this

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Post by whoskmoon on Jun 5, 2024 17:19:14 GMT -6

Jun 4, 2024 7:58:23 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

That is a true statement to a point, but JJM will also have to unlearn bad habits. It's hard to do that when you're running for your life and trying to learn other things.

Every rookie QB has bad habits and if JJ's are so bad that he can't play this season, we should have never traded up for him. You spend a late first, early 2nd on a highly talented, developmental QB. You don't spend the 10th overall pick on one, no matter how big of a need you have.

Jun 5, 2024 11:49:03 GMT -6 FSUVike said:

I think it's important that we as fans don't go overboard on the footwork thing. Drake Maye has much more work to do in that regard. As does Penix. Nix made too many throws off his back feet fading away from the LOS. Williams also has flaws. Daniels doesn't have footwork issues, but his eyes drop the second he's pressured so he's not seeing the field.

Exactly! JJ just got done being coached by a NFL coach in a NFL style offense. He and Maye were the two youngest guys of the top 5, but his development should have been accelerated playing for Harbaugh.

If JJ doesn't see the field it will be because Darnold turns into the next Steve Young and leads us to the playoffs, not because he "isn't ready". "We aren't going to rush him" is just coaches speak for "we don't want to throw away our whole team's season to develop a rookie QB".

Drank
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The Real Reason Coaches Do Not Start Rookie QBs Jun 5, 2024 17:57:24 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by Drank on Jun 5, 2024 17:57:24 GMT -6

Only KO and the staff knows the answer. Some people are visual learners and sitting until they comfortable is best.

Others are hands on like me. Where I can only learn it and improve with trial and error. Sitting wouldn’t help me much, so it depends on how he learns best.

Something tells me to at least start Sam early until things slow down for JJ. The sitting can benefit him depending on which way works for JJ.

It can work both ways imo just make sure it’s done correctly.

Last Edit: Jun 5, 2024 18:01:57 GMT -6 by Drank

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The Real Reason Coaches Do Not Start Rookie QBs Jun 5, 2024 18:57:24 GMT -6 via mobile VikingsVictorious likes this

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Jun 5, 2024 18:57:24 GMT -6

Jun 5, 2024 15:09:06 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Jun 5, 2024 11:49:03 GMT -6 FSUVike said:

That would mean that Darnold grasped the Playbook faster than Cousins AND plays as well as Kirk did last year right out of the gate AND Kevin got the turnover issues fixed AND got the running game going for the first time in the 35 games he's coached in Minnesota....Against a tougher opening schedule than the one his Team faced last year when they started 4-4.

Too many things need to go right IMO.

But I do want McCarthy to get starts this year. He needs to get used to the volume O'Connell will require him to throw in live action. You can't wait until '25 for that to happen.

I think it's important that we as fans don't go overboard on the footwork thing. Drake Maye has much more work to do in that regard. As does Penix. Nix made too many throws off his back feet fading away from the LOS. Williams also has flaws. Daniels doesn't have footwork issues, but his eyes drop the second he's pressured so he's not seeing the field.

McCarthy over strides. Particularly on deep throws to his left. That's relatively minor compared to the bad habits that most of the other guys have developed. And no college QB ever comes into the NFL without something to work on as it relates to mechanics.

So there's a chance Darnold could grasp the offense quickly and run with it. I'm on record predicting Darnold outperforms Cousins this season with better stats and more wins. Keep in mind Darnold is healthy. Big plus IMO. Rodgers, Cousins, Burrows, Daniel, Watson, and Richardson are all coming back from injury.

As for the so-called tougher schedule......meh.

Darnold has a pretty established history of getting hurt and not playing full seasons. He also has a pretty established history of completing passes to the other team.

diehardtwinsfan
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The Real Reason Coaches Do Not Start Rookie QBs Jun 6, 2024 8:31:25 GMT -6

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on Jun 6, 2024 8:31:25 GMT -6

Jun 5, 2024 17:19:14 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Every rookie QB has bad habits and if JJ's are so bad that he can't play this season, we should have never traded up for him. You spend a late first, early 2nd on a highly talented, developmental QB. You don't spend the 10th overall pick on one, no matter how big of a need you have.

I would generally agree with your draft comment, but that's not true anymore. It's the most important position on the team, which we agree. While I think they are overrated, teams don't, which is why they give up ridiculous numbers of 1st round picks to get them.

rf54
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The Real Reason Coaches Do Not Start Rookie QBs Jun 6, 2024 8:58:40 GMT -6 vikingpwr likes this

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Post by rf54 on Jun 6, 2024 8:58:40 GMT -6

just because JJM will not be starting games for the Vikings, that does not imply that he will be sitting... He will likely get plenty of playing time in preseason as KOC has elected to sit his QB1 all of their preseason games. He will get tons of reps in camp and in practice and he will also be getting reps throughout the year. I will guess that KOC will likely have JJM leading the scout team so that he continues to get good reps againt good D looks.

Not starting in the NFL for a rookie is a far cry from "Sitting".

whoskmoon
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The Real Reason Coaches Do Not Start Rookie QBs Jun 6, 2024 10:31:50 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by whoskmoon on Jun 6, 2024 10:31:50 GMT -6

Jun 6, 2024 8:58:40 GMT -6 rf54 said:

just because JJM will not be starting games for the Vikings, that does not imply that he will be sitting... He will likely get plenty of playing time in preseason as KOC has elected to sit his QB1 all of their preseason games. He will get tons of reps in camp and in practice and he will also be getting reps throughout the year. I will guess that KOC will likely have JJM leading the scout team so that he continues to get good reps againt good D looks.

Not starting in the NFL for a rookie is a far cry from "Sitting".

I think you are over stating the development that goes on during the regular season practices. Teams have very little time during the week to get ready for the next game, and almost all of it is spent getting the 1s ready, with little time spent on the backups.

So it isn't just sitting and learning during the games, it is sitting and learning during the week too.

Which is why the vast majority of coaches start rookie QBs for the majority of their rookie seasons. Once it is clear the season is lost, they are making sure the QB who will be starting the following year will be as ready as possible.

Last Edit: Jun 6, 2024 10:38:14 GMT -6 by whoskmoon

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The Real Reason Coaches Do Not Start Rookie QBs Jun 6, 2024 10:43:46 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PackerNation on Jun 6, 2024 10:43:46 GMT -6

Jun 6, 2024 10:31:50 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Jun 6, 2024 8:58:40 GMT -6 rf54 said:

just because JJM will not be starting games for the Vikings, that does not imply that he will be sitting... He will likely get plenty of playing time in preseason as KOC has elected to sit his QB1 all of their preseason games. He will get tons of reps in camp and in practice and he will also be getting reps throughout the year. I will guess that KOC will likely have JJM leading the scout team so that he continues to get good reps againt good D looks.

Not starting in the NFL for a rookie is a far cry from "Sitting".

I think you are over stating the development that goes on during the regular season practices. Teams have very little time during the week to get ready for the next game, and almost all of it is spent getting the 1s ready, with little time spent on the backups.

So it isn't just sitting and learning during the games, it is sitting and learning during the week too.

Which is why the vast majority of coaches start rookie QBs for the majority of their rookie seasons.

Backups use running the scout team like a game. Both Aaron Rodgers and Jordan Love have cited how important it was to their development.

The issue in Minnesota is that they don't have a quality starter for McCarthy to learn from, view film with, and help develop. Coaches can only do so much. QBs develop most from other players. And I actually wouldn't want Darnold anywhere near McCarthy.

Last Edit: Jun 6, 2024 10:44:56 GMT -6 by PackerNation

whoskmoon
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The Real Reason Coaches Do Not Start Rookie QBs Jun 6, 2024 10:47:53 GMT -6 via mobile VikingsVictorious likes this

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Post by whoskmoon on Jun 6, 2024 10:47:53 GMT -6

Jun 6, 2024 10:43:46 GMT -6 PackerNation said:

Jun 6, 2024 10:31:50 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

I think you are over stating the development that goes on during the regular season practices. Teams have very little time during the week to get ready for the next game, and almost all of it is spent getting the 1s ready, with little time spent on the backups.

So it isn't just sitting and learning during the games, it is sitting and learning during the week too.

Which is why the vast majority of coaches start rookie QBs for the majority of their rookie seasons.

Backups use running the scout team like a game. Both Aaron Rodgers and Jordan Love have cited how important it was to their development.

The issue in Minnesota is that they don't have a quality starter for McCarthy to learn from, view film with, and help develop. Coaches can only do so much. QBs develop most from other players. And I actually wouldn't want Darnold anywhere near McCarthy.

No kidding they appreciated running the scout team, it was the only reps they were getting in practice. You know, because actually playing football is the best way to develop as a football player.

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The Real Reason Coaches Do Not Start Rookie QBs Jun 6, 2024 11:12:29 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PackerNation on Jun 6, 2024 11:12:29 GMT -6

Jun 6, 2024 10:47:53 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Jun 6, 2024 10:43:46 GMT -6 PackerNation said:

Backups use running the scout team like a game. Both Aaron Rodgers and Jordan Love have cited how important it was to their development.

The issue in Minnesota is that they don't have a quality starter for McCarthy to learn from, view film with, and help develop. Coaches can only do so much. QBs develop most from other players. And I actually wouldn't want Darnold anywhere near McCarthy.

No kidding they appreciated running the scout team, it was the only reps they were getting in practice. You know, because actually playing football is the best way to develop as a football player.

Confidence, and leadership, are vital for any starting QB to have. Believe it or not, being thrown in the fire too soon can shatter some QBs confidence for their whole career. And if a QB is out there looking like a clown, getting destroyed, he isn't a leader you want on the field. Players will not follow him as their leader.

Now, I am not saying McCarthy can not win the starting job this summer. And may very well perform well this season. But the Vikings coaches need to see him outperform Darnold first consistently.

We shall see what happens.

Last Edit: Jun 6, 2024 11:13:17 GMT -6 by PackerNation

skolvikes
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The Real Reason Coaches Do Not Start Rookie QBs Jun 6, 2024 11:13:52 GMT -6

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Post by skolvikes on Jun 6, 2024 11:13:52 GMT -6

Jun 6, 2024 10:47:53 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Jun 6, 2024 10:43:46 GMT -6 PackerNation said:

Backups use running the scout team like a game. Both Aaron Rodgers and Jordan Love have cited how important it was to their development.

The issue in Minnesota is that they don't have a quality starter for McCarthy to learn from, view film with, and help develop. Coaches can only do so much. QBs develop most from other players. And I actually wouldn't want Darnold anywhere near McCarthy.

No kidding they appreciated running the scout team, it was the only reps they were getting in practice. You know, because actually playing football is the best way to develop as a football player.

Its nearly impossible to replicate live action in practices. The best way to quickly develop a QB is by playing him in live games. Its not only the games, but the prep for the games too. Unfortunately its also probably the best way to break a QB, both injury and/or mentally with their confidence. I'm a believer that JJM should be put in early, start the year with Darnold and if the losses are stacking up and the season is looking bleak, get JJM in there. Better to learn on the job and take your lumps as much as possible this year vs next year.

Drank
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The Real Reason Coaches Do Not Start Rookie QBs Jun 6, 2024 11:36:22 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by Drank on Jun 6, 2024 11:36:22 GMT -6

I disagree when you go on a job you trained first.

Being a professional athlete is mastering a profession like a doctor with a PHd. You have to learn before you operate on people you trained in other fields as well.

Like I said it works both ways depending on if JJ more a visual learner or hands on. I would not put him in to early and limit him and the whole team. It’s a no brainer when he grasps everything is when you put him in not a second before.

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The Real Reason Coaches Do Not Start Rookie QBs Jun 6, 2024 11:47:36 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by Drank on Jun 6, 2024 11:47:36 GMT -6

You get better by practicing. The game you have to go to your strong areas when bullets fly. Practice is where you work on your craft not games.

Practice is to get better games is to display and apply what you built on the practice field. If it wasn’t so then there is no need to practice.

VikingsVictorious
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The Real Reason Coaches Do Not Start Rookie QBs Jun 6, 2024 12:17:39 GMT -6

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Post by VikingsVictorious on Jun 6, 2024 12:17:39 GMT -6

Jun 6, 2024 8:58:40 GMT -6 rf54 said:

just because JJM will not be starting games for the Vikings, that does not imply that he will be sitting... He will likely get plenty of playing time in preseason as KOC has elected to sit his QB1 all of their preseason games. He will get tons of reps in camp and in practice and he will also be getting reps throughout the year. I will guess that KOC will likely have JJM leading the scout team so that he continues to get good reps againt good D looks.

Not starting in the NFL for a rookie is a far cry from "Sitting".

I believe Darnold will get some pre-season game time. If he was an established star he wouldn't, but he's never taken a game snap with the Vikings. If they do sit him all pre-season it would sure make a statement.

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The Real Reason Coaches Do Not Start Rookie QBs Jun 6, 2024 12:21:52 GMT -6

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Post by VikingsVictorious on Jun 6, 2024 12:21:52 GMT -6

Jun 6, 2024 11:36:22 GMT -6 Drank said:

I disagree when you go on a job you trained first.

Being a professional athlete is mastering a profession like a doctor with a PHd. You have to learn before you operate on people you trained in other fields as well.

Like I said it works both ways depending on if JJ more a visual learner or hands on. I would not put him in to early and limit him and the whole team. It’s a no brainer when he grasps everything is when you put him in not a second before.

Training camp is where you get trained first. We have 3 months to train him before game one. I expect McCarthy to get the starting job week 7.

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The Real Reason Coaches Do Not Start Rookie QBs Jun 6, 2024 12:21:54 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by Drank on Jun 6, 2024 12:21:54 GMT -6

To make it easier to comprehend I will use a basketball example. If you suck going left you better not use it in game or get the ball taken. Games is about results. You learn on the practice field and class room, that’s where you make weaknesses strengths. Not the other way around. So the offseason is when you get better at your game. But game time is not the time to experiment. Practice makes perfect.

Last Edit: Jun 6, 2024 12:45:19 GMT -6 by Drank