Mackey and Judd

So, double standards, harsh criticisms that seem personal, and a Super Bowl or bust attitude?

...maybe they should post here?

I did find this:



...



I'll admit, this is the most unprofessional take I've ever seen from someone in the Vikings media - and I've posted literally thousands of articles and quotes here (I don't post much from these guys). So, I will give you that. This sort of tone is definitely not my cup of tea, especially from the professionals. As much as I don't like it though, I understand that some do. Different perspectives lead to the best debates. But yeah, unless someone is a real creep (Vick, Sharper, Watson, etc) I can do without all the personal digs. By all accounts, Cousins is a good person. I don't get all the crap thrown his way. Some things are just unnecessary. So yeah, I see why some would be triggered by that.

I am not huge fan of them but they dont care about how we feel. They have built an amazing platform and understand if they can say something that half the fans love and half the fans hate, then you got something. Kuddos to them and I love to see their success from it even though again not too big of fan.

What is divisive?
Kirk- they owe alot of their success to Kirk
After game vent lines- when are fans a peak emotions
Signings- say a hot take about new coaches, players, etc to get fan reactions
Alot of their titles- should the Vikings do x?

These guys are huge Wrestling fans. They see how creating a scenerio where half the fans hate and half the fans love something has built an empire.

I think you, like me, want real content-facts. This isnt the pod you should go to if thats the case.

If your first criticism is against someone loving Jefferson...


They failed to win a single playoff series, how is that a run? They've lost 7 straight playoff series! Why are we so positive about our teams that consistently lose in the playoffs?

I don't know much about hockey and I'm not promoting a tank job with Kaprizov in his prime... but at some point they've got to try something different, don't they?


How has that worked for the big 4 Minnesota sports the past 32 years? We've consistently sent underdog teams to the playoffs and they get slaughtered every time. It's been so bad the last major championship happened before I was even born! Why can't we ever build a juggernaut, a team with top tier talent that doesn't need to luck into winning the big game?

When looking at Minnesota teams that had rosters that were top 5 in the NFL... I think I can say that the Vikings have had that kind of team twice since 1991, that being 1998 and 2009. The Twins have never had a top 5 team since 2000, maybe 2006 but they got swept in the playoffs. Don't know about the Wild, and the Wolves certainly haven't been top 5 since the Garnett days, and I can't say for certain about them ever having a top 5 roster.


That's the thing about Mackey and Judd that only frequent listeners will find out... they're actually just big homers who get called haters because they dare to have opinions that ruffle some feathers. Some examples:

All 3 of them predicted the Timberwolves to hit the over on their 2022-23 win total (they didn't come close), and had them either going to game 7 vs Denver or outright winning.

All of them had the Wild beating the Stars in their playoff series.

All of them had the Vikings beating the Giants in the playoffs, all picked the over on the 2022 O/U and will probably do it again in 2023.

They will positively talk about every splashy move, because it's what they ask from our teams, and only with hindsight in their rearview mirror will they realize that it was dumb. But that's how it goes, people aren't going to tune in if they are always slamming the big moves like the Gobert trade.



Here's the thing, he doesn't think they are trash. He calls KAT the most accurate over 7 foot player in NBA history. He last ranked Kirk as the 9th best QB in football (Judd was 10th, IIRC). They have a belief that their teams are not likely to win it all with them on the team, but that doesn't mean they are trash.

This also explains why they think they can get something in a trade for them, because they are good enough players to fetch something on the open market. Because they don't think they are trash.

So a reminder - just because they like to recklessly speculate about trading Kirk and don't want to extend him until he's 38 doesn't mean they think he is trash. They think he is good, not great. I don't see why that is so hard to understand.


Source?


I'm seeing 14 according to PFR, what is your source? They have 22 in his career total, so not sure how you got 23 if you don't include 2022.


The reasoning had more justification if you view it without our hindsight - from 2018 to 2020, the Vikings were a bottom 5 team at mounting comebacks in the 4th quarter and overtime, so it seemed to them that Kirk wasn't clutch. This completely turned around in 21-22, where he recorded 11 4th quarter comebacks which is 50% of his total comebacks in a span of 24% of his career starts.

That is, unless PFR is incorrect, but I did do a study a few months back that was independent from PFR that examined offensive comebacks and defensive "saves" that confirmed the idea that the Vikings offense was way better at comebacks in 2021-22 compared to 2016-20.


If they really are that dumb, then they must have had some dumb luck to become one of the most popular single-team focused sports podcasts in the country. It's not like these guys have had long careers in the reporting / journalism industry compared to being just two random guys on the internet...

He did the right thing by moving his complaints to his own thread as opposed to crapping on Johnny's. Let it be.

Know what's worse than kirko criticizing Mackey and Judd? People chasing kirko around the forum criticizing him.

Attack the post, not the poster. Leave moderation up to the moderators. Piling on adds nothing to the board either. You guys get that, right?

The title of this thread is literally "Mackey and Judd." Let's talk about them (and other Vikings content creators). ...or don't. Feel free to not participate in threads that don't interest you. Self-moderation is a beautiful thing.

I love Wilson, but that price was far too steep. I have NO CLUE how everything sucked so badly in Denver last season, but wow. As it was a crazy story last season, it'll be one of the biggest stories this season. Can Wilson be fixed? Maybe. And then maybe this take is less bad.

You're obviously a big Cousins fan. You also hate lazy narratives. You also hate when people seem to make it personal against him and are out for blood. Those are all reasonable. I'm not going to dive into it, but based on the article I found and the stuff you're saying (even if just half is true), I'll say they've entered into the nonsensical category in regards to Cousins. When it seems personal and petty, people lose me. So, I can't blame you there. But, take a breather. Cousins is okay. He's living his best life!

This is a really good take. The Wilson trade is going to cost jobs. It technically already has so to speak, but Patton will lose his at some point. It was a dumb move before that contract was signed. Perhaps Payton can do something with him, but that was an insane amount of capital to go with a ridiculous contract for a name whose numbers didn't match it. 

Cousins is probably underrated compared to some of the names, but when it comes to money he's going to squeeze every red cent out of the team, and he has his flaws... glaring ones too. So I understand the frustration, but I do really tire of the "mortgage the world for a name" arguments. Watson, Wilson, Jackson... those would all have been bad bad bad options. In my opinion, QBs are already way overpaid for the value they provide, and that's accounting for them being the most important player on the field. So what Cleveland and Denver did was comical. Can it work? Sure. But Cleveland and Denver have their heads up their collective you know what if they think they are the next LA Rams. 

We do need a QBOTF. I won't argue that, and at his current price, I don't think that Kirk is the answer here... sorry kirko8... If he wants to retire here on a much cheaper salary to let us build a good team around him to mask his flaws, I'm all for it.  But as long as he wants anything close to "market value", I'm not. The real value in the NFL right now in my opinion is a QB pipeline... develop a decent one and trade him for a boatload right before he gets expensive... rinse and repeat... That's the best way to do a dynasty. 

I for one am shocked after reading that other thread and this that it’s largely about Kirk Cousins lol.

Judd provides a good amount of content and isn’t just a mouthpiece for the team like some others. He has some opinions to disagree with but that is what happens when you have so many takes over time. The posts bashing him in the ways done are further proof of one of my previous points. It’s rarely about any actual hate for Cousins. It’s just a chunk of fans that get extremely defensive of Kirk often going overboard in response to people disagreeing. The OP itself has questionable/wrong information while constantly calling Judd a liar in the other thread/here. This is very common, if you look at the Kirk cousins thread you see responses to others bringing up factual information with strawman arguments or stuff like we see from the OP here. I’m not sure I have ever seen anything like it and I don’t think it’s surprising some hate how often it happens (different than hating Kirk himself).

The reality is the opinions of these so called haters align almost completely with how the large majority outside of our fan base view him. Not living up to initial expectations, being worth the salary etc. are just how he is viewed. Many fans see him more in bigger games and moments which until last year he regularly struggled in (and the playoff game ending hurt in that sense). There aren’t many fan bases out there hoping their team gets Kirk Cousins.

So in the end I don’t get the hate or backlash for Judd or others pointing out what is kind of obvious to most outside this fan base. He’s an above average qb that is generally overpaid and hasn’t really lead a team to much success. Judd and Mackey aren’t the highest level content but they do provide a lot of information and content over time. They don’t just give takes that prop up the MN teams either they are willing to call out flaws. I don’t really get the hate other than the cousins stuff being focused on.