Mackey and Judd

whoskmoon
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Mackey and Judd Jun 3, 2023 10:03:37 GMT -6 mngopher35 likes this

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Post by whoskmoon on Jun 3, 2023 10:03:37 GMT -6

Jun 3, 2023 9:58:56 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

No, full context involves the entire picture lol. As I already said the oline was also bad the year before, we ranked 22nd and had less than 4 yards per carry with cook getting injured too. As pff even noted what I mentioned earlier “this was often largely due to QB Case Keenum’s ability to avoid defenders and get rid of the ball before he would be taken to the ground.”. On top of that we were 19th without said injury to cook in 2019. So overall the oline was bad even before cousins and his first year here it looked worse in part to not having keenums ability to make plays in pocket/buy time and also probably due to a bad coordinator. It fits almost exactly the actual full context I laid out but was just cherry picking a small aspect yet again.

Keenum was the 3rd most pressured QB in 2017 at a rate of 39.3 % per drop back. Kirk was 5th at 38.9% in 2018. The idea that the pass protection was that much worse in 2018 that it turned a SB caliber team with a backup QB into one that didn't make the playoffs is laughable.

CAMartin
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Mackey and Judd Jun 3, 2023 18:21:33 GMT -6

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Post by CAMartin on Jun 3, 2023 18:21:33 GMT -6

Jun 3, 2023 9:59:26 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Jun 2, 2023 10:33:34 GMT -6 CAMartin said:

...case, point. Was Cousins playing alone?

Yes, you insulting people who disagree with you on a QB who has done nothing for your favorite team is a prime example of how most Kirk defenders behave.

Kirk didn't play alone, he played on a team that helped carry a backup QB to the NFCCG game. How did that work out again?

Has done nothing...except a pass to JJ that, by itself, is already in the Hall of Fame, the biggest comeback in NFL history, the most comebacks...

...ah, never mind. The standard will be "well, he didn't get our Super Bowl", in which case, I guess Fran didn't do anything, either.

He's had some of the best, most productive seasons, as a Vikings QB with KNOWN bad protection, and has essentially outperformed the decade of our QBs prior to him, arguably all the way back to the '98ers. Daunte had more TDs in a season, but also was an infamous turnover machine.

As someone who remembers us hiring "yet another retread" for many years, disasters in young QB development, and basically the series of losing seasons with that position unsettled...I think it's fair to say he's done a helluva lot more for the team than you're crediting him with.

OK, KOC...time to earn that money and acclaim...!

mngopher35
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Mackey and Judd Jun 3, 2023 20:37:44 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by mngopher35 on Jun 3, 2023 20:37:44 GMT -6

Jun 3, 2023 10:03:37 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Jun 3, 2023 9:58:56 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

No, full context involves the entire picture lol. As I already said the oline was also bad the year before, we ranked 22nd and had less than 4 yards per carry with cook getting injured too. As pff even noted what I mentioned earlier “this was often largely due to QB Case Keenum’s ability to avoid defenders and get rid of the ball before he would be taken to the ground.”. On top of that we were 19th without said injury to cook in 2019. So overall the oline was bad even before cousins and his first year here it looked worse in part to not having keenums ability to make plays in pocket/buy time and also probably due to a bad coordinator. It fits almost exactly the actual full context I laid out but was just cherry picking a small aspect yet again.

Keenum was the 3rd most pressured QB in 2017 at a rate of 39.3 % per drop back. Kirk was 5th at 38.9% in 2018. The idea that the pass protection was that much worse in 2018 that it turned a SB caliber team with a backup QB into one that didn't make the playoffs is laughable.

Exactly. I pointed out plenty in terms of full context and this only furthers the point. You just can’t use the full context when it comes to cousins without the type of responses I described. I have never seen anything like it.

It only further proves the point I have been making. It’s just crazy to me the levels it goes to avoid context/reality/stats/date in full. All while talking about how others are haters, low iq, whacko etc. just for not ignoring it.

I truly have never seen anything like it. I guess it may be similar to mauer with the twins but wow. As I keep saying it’s not really that many at all hate cousins, he just has a cult like group of fans. I don’t quite understand it.

legendsofthenorth Ring of Honor Enter your message here... Posts: 5,723 Likes: 3,265	Mackey and Judd Jun 3, 2023 22:11:42 GMT -6 via mobile Funkytown and Danchat like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by legendsofthenorth on Jun 3, 2023 22:11:42 GMT -6 This thread is exactly how Skornorth has made a living off of Kirk Cousins. Isnt it ironic?

kirko8
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Mackey and Judd Jun 4, 2023 11:34:41 GMT -6

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Post by kirko8 on Jun 4, 2023 11:34:41 GMT -6

The Kirk haters do not understand how the NFL or Reality work. They continually point to his playoff record you cannot judge a QB by that. Lamar who has been LEAGUE MVP has the SAME playoff record as Kirk and in fact Kirk has played BETTER in the playoffs than Lamar. Lamar with that record just received one of the largest deals in NFL history despite that playoff record. A team can win a SB with a back up QB who can't even be an NFL starter because of two things the team around them (that means the HC, the GM, the OC, the DC, the OL, the receiver, the run game, the pass game, the defense, the special teams) and luck (injuries, penalties, ball bounces etc) when fans put it all on the QB that is ludicrous.
Zimmer was not a very good HC the OL has sucked since Kirk has been here new OC every year Zimmer interfering with the Offense to it's detriment.

The haters overlook Kirk's clutch win vs. NO but they blame him for the SF loss he was sacked 6 times in that game lol. Even against NYG he was pressured throughout that games and sacked 4 times.

The haters nitpick reality to somehow put the blame ALWAYS on Kirk but if you look at his playoff stats he has played well better than Lamar as I said.

The haters also confuse reasons and excuses. Excuses are not legitimate. Reasons are legitimate. The team Kirk took over was not the same as Keenum's team. You know Zimmer was wrong about a lot of things but he was right about Keenum that dude was NOT an NFL starting QB and he was the beneficiary of luck. You still need some luck along with talent... this boils down to the haters feelings vs actual facts about Kirk. Kwesi and KOC do NOT agree with you about Kirk - haters.

Imagine not being able to enjoy last season because of their Kirk hate when it was one of the best most entertaining seasons in NFL history not just Vikings history.

Kwesi and KOC had 2 offseasons to dump Kirk Levis/Hooker fell into their laps and to the chagrin of the haters they KEPT KIRK. The haters cannot fathom this.

Last Edit: Jun 4, 2023 11:38:23 GMT -6 by kirko8

Brandon
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Mackey and Judd Jun 4, 2023 13:58:03 GMT -6 via mobile Funkytown and PurpleKoolaid like this

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Post by Brandon on Jun 4, 2023 13:58:03 GMT -6

Jun 4, 2023 11:34:41 GMT -6 kirko8 said:

Kwesi and KOC had 2 offseasons to dump Kirk Levis/Hooker fell into their laps and to the chagrin of the haters they KEPT KIRK. The haters cannot fathom this.

You're speculating and also ignoring a few things. First being the Wilf's. There's a theory that the Wilf's chose them because they were willing to run it back and see what shakes out. That's backed up by Ryan Poles suddenly pulling out if the running and taking the Bears job where he blew the whole roster apart and tanked. There was also word that Rick wanted to move on from Kirk his last year as GM and was told No, not unless you have a suitable replacement right then and there. Then he tried to trade up for Justin Fields.

Also, just because they didn't take Levis or Hooker doesn't mean they have handcuffed themselves to and are worshipping at the Kirk alter. It most likely just means they thought they sucked as prospects.

They didn't extend Kirk this year because they wanted flexibility (an easy out) and Kirk wanted stability (a long term deal). That was from Kwesi’s own mouth. They did a massive amount of work on the QB class this year and were exploring trade up options.

That is not a sign that they want to stay with Kirk. It shows right now it's a marriage of convenience, nothing more. They are exploring options to move on. That's undeniable.

Last Edit: Jun 4, 2023 14:04:44 GMT -6 by Brandon

PurpleKoolaid Hall of Fame Candidate Posts: 6,219 Likes: 2,838	Mackey and Judd Jun 4, 2023 20:01:38 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by PurpleKoolaid on Jun 4, 2023 20:01:38 GMT -6 Jun 4, 2023 11:34:41 GMT -6 kirko8 said: The Kirk haters Get a grip, dude. Name 1 person that hates Cousins.

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Mackey and Judd Jun 5, 2023 1:05:18 GMT -6 via mobile Danchat, suncoastvike, and 1 more like this

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Post by Funkytown on Jun 5, 2023 1:05:18 GMT -6

Jun 1, 2023 12:09:13 GMT -6 kirko8 said:

To be clear I always thought Kirk was not that good but when I started watching Mackey and Judd last summer I was shocked by what they were saying about Kirk... I realized it was psychobabble nonsense and irrelevant meaningless information so I checked for myself and couldn't believe how good Kirk was...

Interesting. And now you're a superfan or just into mythbusting?

The last thing we need is another Kirk Cousins thread, though. And look what this has turned into.

Anyway, I named the disease. It's called psychokirkosis. It can be described as the inability to resist debating the same arguments about Kirk Cousins that have been argued the five years prior. There are no known treatments at this time.

*uvikethat*

diehardtwinsfan Moderator Posts: 11,967 Likes: 7,510	Mackey and Judd Jun 5, 2023 6:55:16 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by diehardtwinsfan on Jun 5, 2023 6:55:16 GMT -6 Jun 4, 2023 20:01:38 GMT -6 PurpleKoolaid said: Jun 4, 2023 11:34:41 GMT -6 kirko8 said: The Kirk haters Get a grip, dude. Name 1 person that hates Cousins. bit surprised whoskmoon didn't raise his hand...

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Mackey and Judd Jun 5, 2023 6:57:04 GMT -6 Danchat and suncoastvike like this

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on Jun 5, 2023 6:57:04 GMT -6

Jun 5, 2023 1:05:18 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Anyway, I named the disease. It's called psychokirkosis. It can be described as the inability to resist debating the same arguments about Kirk Cousins that have been argued the five years prior. There are no known treatments at this time.

whoskmoon
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Mackey and Judd Jun 5, 2023 8:06:15 GMT -6 via mobile mngopher35 likes this

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Post by whoskmoon on Jun 5, 2023 8:06:15 GMT -6

Jun 5, 2023 6:55:16 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

Jun 4, 2023 20:01:38 GMT -6 PurpleKoolaid said:

Get a grip, dude. Name 1 person that hates Cousins.

bit surprised whoskmoon didn't raise his hand...

Great contribution...

I have a very similar opinion about Kirk as you do, I just don't bother sugar coating that opinion. He isn't good enough and sticking with him is not a path to winning a championship. Pointing to all of the evidence that proves that opinion to be correct has nothing to do with hate, and everything to do with wanting the Vikings to pursue a strategy that could actually lead to competing for a SB.

No hate here, just a fan of a team versus a player and to be honest someone who enjoys being right and correcting people who are wrong. And boy do some of you make that easy.

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Mackey and Judd Jun 5, 2023 10:16:23 GMT -6 Danchat, suncoastvike, and 2 more like this

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Post by comet52 on Jun 5, 2023 10:16:23 GMT -6

Jun 4, 2023 11:34:41 GMT -6 kirko8 said:

The Kirk haters do not understand
The haters overlook
The haters nitpick

The haters also confuse
the haters feelings vs actual facts
Kwesi and KOC do NOT agree with you about Kirk - haters.

because of their Kirk hate

The haters cannot fathom this.

Can you make an argument without labeling and name-calling?

I'm here for entertainment purposes only

CAMartin
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Mackey and Judd Jun 5, 2023 13:07:07 GMT -6 Danchat likes this

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Post by CAMartin on Jun 5, 2023 13:07:07 GMT -6

Jun 5, 2023 1:05:18 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Jun 1, 2023 12:09:13 GMT -6 kirko8 said:

To be clear I always thought Kirk was not that good but when I started watching Mackey and Judd last summer I was shocked by what they were saying about Kirk... I realized it was psychobabble nonsense and irrelevant meaningless information so I checked for myself and couldn't believe how good Kirk was...

Interesting. And now you're a superfan or just into mythbusting?

The last thing we need is another Kirk Cousins thread, though. And look what this has turned into.

Anyway, I named the disease. It's called psychokirkosis. It can be described as the inability to resist debating the same arguments about Kirk Cousins that have been argued the five years prior. There are no known treatments at this time.

*uvikethat*

Well, there is a treatment, but it's only gonna come with a championship. Because, even if/when psychokirkosis passes (which, at current rates, looks like it will be about 30 years after his retirement), it'll just be one of our many ailments:

FranOforThreeOsis
TommyTwoFist Syndrome
Cunninham DAMNYOUGARYitis
DaunteFumblitis
SoCloseSoFavre Delusion
Rabid Ponderings
TeddyMediocritis
and, the infamous
CaseoftheKeenum Fetishes.

All painful, all severe, and I have to believe that all of our QBs will be at least partially recalled similar to diseases until the one that joins his Vikings in breaking the curse. Even then, it'll only happen when we put a fully good team out there...which means mediocrity, not the cellar, should be the lowest rating for any portion. Trenches, skills, specialists, coaches, everyone has to be fighting to be the best, not digging out of the cellar.

That said, I don't think even a ring would be a strong enough deodorant for some of our current naysayers...!

Last Edit: Jun 5, 2023 13:10:53 GMT -6 by CAMartin

OK, KOC...time to earn that money and acclaim...!

legendsofthenorth Ring of Honor Enter your message here... Posts: 5,723 Likes: 3,265	Mackey and Judd Jun 5, 2023 13:18:46 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by legendsofthenorth on Jun 5, 2023 13:18:46 GMT -6 So, about Mackey and Judd.....

Danchat Content Creator Posts: 19,025 Likes: 16,604	Mackey and Judd Jun 5, 2023 13:46:08 GMT -6 Funkytown and legendsofthenorth like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Danchat on Jun 5, 2023 13:46:08 GMT -6 Jun 5, 2023 13:18:46 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said: So, about Mackey and Judd..... Minnesota Vikings' best path forward is to extend Kirk Cousins
	Last Edit: Jun 5, 2023 13:46:36 GMT -6 by Danchat