Rick Spielman's parting gifts...

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Rick Spielman's parting gifts... Aug 21, 2022 12:50:39 GMT -6

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Post by Krauser on Aug 21, 2022 12:50:39 GMT -6

Aug 21, 2022 8:31:36 GMT -6 RickHasBeenFired said:

There is a lot of suck among the players Spielman has left behind.

Other than a couple players, this 2023 and 2024 teams will have almost nothing left of Rick.

What a disaster Zimmer had to work with with Rick wasting valuable 3rd round picks on players who you seriously can't even put on an NFL field.

The 2023 team will have something like 8 players from the 2020 draft: Jefferson, Cleveland, Dantzler and Osborn as starters, and Wonnum, Lynch, Dye, Brandel and maybe Hinton as backups. That's very good, especially considering what happened with Gladney.

2021's class will likely come down to Darrisaw, Bynum, Jones, ISM and Nwangwu -- one starter at least, but maybe 2 or 3. That's not terrible given that they didn't have a 2nd round pick, but the 3rd round was a huge missed opportunity.

2019's class doesn't look great unless Bradbury improves. I do think Irv will be good if he stays healthy, and be part of the long-term plan. Mattison, Bisi, and maybe one or both of Boyd and Udoh should stick for depth through 4 years. It's not a washout but the top 2 picks haven't paid off yet, and maybe never will.

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Rick Spielman's parting gifts... Aug 21, 2022 14:14:05 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by wivikesfan on Aug 21, 2022 14:14:05 GMT -6

Statistically I do think Rick was above average in his drafting. But, too many 1st round whiffs in a row and for me Bradbury was the dagger. You can't draft a center in the 1st round who isn't AT LEAST a 10 year starter, even if average. That was my last straw. His handling of Cousins/Bradford was just as bad.

He did more good than bad, but not enough to keep his job. We shall see on Kwesi but I like his process a lot better so far.

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Rick Spielman's parting gifts... Aug 21, 2022 14:44:39 GMT -6 comet52, Jor-El, and 1 more like this

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Post by RickHasBeenFired on Aug 21, 2022 14:44:39 GMT -6

Aug 21, 2022 12:50:39 GMT -6 Krauser said:

Aug 21, 2022 8:31:36 GMT -6 RickHasBeenFired said:

There is a lot of suck among the players Spielman has left behind.

Other than a couple players, this 2023 and 2024 teams will have almost nothing left of Rick.

What a disaster Zimmer had to work with with Rick wasting valuable 3rd round picks on players who you seriously can't even put on an NFL field.

The 2023 team will have something like 8 players from the 2020 draft: Jefferson, Cleveland, Dantzler and Osborn as starters, and Wonnum, Lynch, Dye, Brandel and maybe Hinton as backups. That's very good, especially considering what happened with Gladney.

2021's class will likely come down to Darrisaw, Bynum, Jones, ISM and Nwangwu -- one starter at least, but maybe 2 or 3. That's not terrible given that they didn't have a 2nd round pick, but the 3rd round was a huge missed opportunity.

2019's class doesn't look great unless Bradbury improves. I do think Irv will be good if he stays healthy, and be part of the long-term plan. Mattison, Bisi, and maybe one or both of Boyd and Udoh should stick for depth through 4 years. It's not a washout but the top 2 picks haven't paid off yet, and maybe never will.

It's like you aren't even thinking when you post some of this stuff.
Irv Smith is entering his 4th year on his 4 year $5 million contract. He has done almost NOTHING so far due to injuries and whatever else.

He has 676 career passing yards which is worse than Troy Williamson had for the Vikings in three years.
Not only is that a sign of a very bad player, it could become greatly bad if he is resigned for even more $$$ and never produces.
It's GM suicide to extend a player like that who can't stay healthy.

Horrible players at least you know you are done with quickly. These guys who fool you into believing they are productive (like Christian Ponder) will ruin a franchise for years.

Last Edit: Aug 21, 2022 14:46:20 GMT -6 by RickHasBeenFired

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Rick Spielman's parting gifts... Aug 21, 2022 14:53:30 GMT -6 Funkytown, Danchat, and 2 more like this

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Post by Krauser on Aug 21, 2022 14:53:30 GMT -6

Aug 21, 2022 14:44:39 GMT -6 RickHasBeenFired said:

Aug 21, 2022 12:50:39 GMT -6 Krauser said:

The 2023 team will have something like 8 players from the 2020 draft: Jefferson, Cleveland, Dantzler and Osborn as starters, and Wonnum, Lynch, Dye, Brandel and maybe Hinton as backups. That's very good, especially considering what happened with Gladney.

2021's class will likely come down to Darrisaw, Bynum, Jones, ISM and Nwangwu -- one starter at least, but maybe 2 or 3. That's not terrible given that they didn't have a 2nd round pick, but the 3rd round was a huge missed opportunity.

2019's class doesn't look great unless Bradbury improves. I do think Irv will be good if he stays healthy, and be part of the long-term plan. Mattison, Bisi, and maybe one or both of Boyd and Udoh should stick for depth through 4 years. It's not a washout but the top 2 picks haven't paid off yet, and maybe never will.

It's like you aren't even thinking when you post some of this stuff.
Irv Smith is entering his 4th year on his 4 year $5 million contract. He has done almost NOTHING so far due to injuries and whatever else.

He has 676 career passing yards which is worse than Troy Williamson had for the Vikings in three years.
Not only is that a sign of a very bad player, it could become greatly bad if he is resigned for even more $$$ and never produces.
It's GM suicide to extend a player like that who can't stay healthy.

Horrible players at least you know you are done with quickly. These guys who fool you into believing they are productive (like Christian Ponder) will ruin a franchise for years.

TEs often take a year or two to get up to speed. It’s a position with a long developmental curve.

Irv was a 20 year old draft pick. He was productive for a young rookie TE, from memory I think his 2019 season is top 10 all time for a 21 year old TE.

The team (fire Rick!) stupidly kept Rudolph as TE1 in 2020, for his big cap hit. Irv got to start 4 games at the end of the year when Rudolph was out, and produced 183 yards and 3 TDs on only 20 targets. That’s very good.

He looked like the best player on the team in training camp last year, and had a couple of nice moments in preseason despite the offense generally looking terrible. Then he hurt his knee.

This year I think he’ll be good for ~800 yards and 8 TDs, if he stays healthy. They’ll have to pay him to keep him, but they should — he’s a great scheme fit and good TEs are hard to find.

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Rick Spielman's parting gifts... Aug 22, 2022 11:27:34 GMT -6 oneanddone likes this

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Post by RickHasBeenFired on Aug 22, 2022 11:27:34 GMT -6

Aug 21, 2022 14:53:30 GMT -6 Krauser said:

Aug 21, 2022 14:44:39 GMT -6 RickHasBeenFired said:

It's like you aren't even thinking when you post some of this stuff.
Irv Smith is entering his 4th year on his 4 year $5 million contract. He has done almost NOTHING so far due to injuries and whatever else.

He has 676 career passing yards which is worse than Troy Williamson had for the Vikings in three years.
Not only is that a sign of a very bad player, it could become greatly bad if he is resigned for even more $$$ and never produces.
It's GM suicide to extend a player like that who can't stay healthy.

Horrible players at least you know you are done with quickly. These guys who fool you into believing they are productive (like Christian Ponder) will ruin a franchise for years.

TEs often take a year or two to get up to speed. It’s a position with a long developmental curve.

Irv was a 20 year old draft pick. He was productive for a young rookie TE, from memory I think his 2019 season is top 10 all time for a 21 year old TE.

The team (fire Rick!) stupidly kept Rudolph as TE1 in 2020, for his big cap hit. Irv got to start 4 games at the end of the year when Rudolph was out, and produced 183 yards and 3 TDs on only 20 targets. That’s very good.

He looked like the best player on the team in training camp last year, and had a couple of nice moments in preseason despite the offense generally looking terrible. Then he hurt his knee.

This year I think he’ll be good for ~800 yards and 8 TDs, if he stays healthy. They’ll have to pay him to keep him, but they should — he’s a great scheme fit and good TEs are hard to find.

Good TE's are so hard to find, we didn't find one in the 2019 draft.

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Rick Spielman's parting gifts... Aug 22, 2022 13:23:35 GMT -6 Funkytown and MidwinterViking like this

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Post by Krauser on Aug 22, 2022 13:23:35 GMT -6

Aug 22, 2022 11:27:34 GMT -6 RickHasBeenFired said:

Good TE's are so hard to find, we didn't find one in the 2019 draft.

11th most receiving yards from any TE by the age of 22 since the year 2000: stathead.com/tiny/iRqwA

Also tied for 5th there with 7 TDs.

If the Vikings had just moved on from Rudolph a year earlier, Smith would've already had a breakout season in 2020. He's a good player.

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Rick Spielman's parting gifts... Aug 22, 2022 14:41:07 GMT -6 kmillard likes this

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Post by oneanddone on Aug 22, 2022 14:41:07 GMT -6

Aug 22, 2022 13:23:35 GMT -6 Krauser said:

Aug 22, 2022 11:27:34 GMT -6 RickHasBeenFired said:

Good TE's are so hard to find, we didn't find one in the 2019 draft.

11th most receiving yards from any TE by the age of 22 since the year 2000: stathead.com/tiny/iRqwA

Also tied for 5th there with 7 TDs.

If the Vikings had just moved on from Rudolph a year earlier, Smith would've already had a breakout season in 2020. He's a good player.

You don't know that and neither does anyone else. Sad but true. A team should never give out 2nd contracts on potential.

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Rick Spielman's parting gifts... Aug 22, 2022 14:47:38 GMT -6

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Post by Jor-El on Aug 22, 2022 14:47:38 GMT -6

Aug 21, 2022 14:53:30 GMT -6 Krauser said:

Aug 21, 2022 14:44:39 GMT -6 RickHasBeenFired said:

It's like you aren't even thinking when you post some of this stuff.
Irv Smith is entering his 4th year on his 4 year $5 million contract. He has done almost NOTHING so far due to injuries and whatever else.

He has 676 career passing yards which is worse than Troy Williamson had for the Vikings in three years.
Not only is that a sign of a very bad player, it could become greatly bad if he is resigned for even more $$$ and never produces.
It's GM suicide to extend a player like that who can't stay healthy.

Horrible players at least you know you are done with quickly. These guys who fool you into believing they are productive (like Christian Ponder) will ruin a franchise for years.

TEs often take a year or two to get up to speed. It’s a position with a long developmental curve.

Irv was a 20 year old draft pick. He was productive for a young rookie TE, from memory I think his 2019 season is top 10 all time for a 21 year old TE.

The team (fire Rick!) stupidly kept Rudolph as TE1 in 2020, for his big cap hit. Irv got to start 4 games at the end of the year when Rudolph was out, and produced 183 yards and 3 TDs on only 20 targets. That’s very good.

He looked like the best player on the team in training camp last year, and had a couple of nice moments in preseason despite the offense generally looking terrible. Then he hurt his knee.

This year I think he’ll be good for ~800 yards and 8 TDs, if he stays healthy. They’ll have to pay him to keep him, but they should — he’s a great scheme fit and good TEs are hard to find.

But the timing of Smith's development (or non-development) is problematic. If he had progressed last year (or been played more in 2020), they could be extending him now. But if he breaks out this season, he's eligible for UFA and will command a high salary, maybe higher than Conklin got. Feels dangerous contractually.

Also, I'm not sure he is a "great scheme fit". Maybe because good TEs are hard to find, most offenses don't seem to need a TE as an integral receiving threat, and the Rams did not seem to emphasize one.

The stock of Spielman draftees doesn't seem to be faring well this week. Mond sliding towards the waiver wire. Smith-Marsette probably done as a punt returner, Davidson dropping passes. Watts, Jones, and Robinson all unimpressive.

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Rick Spielman's parting gifts... Aug 22, 2022 15:10:48 GMT -6 Funkytown, vikingpwr, and 2 more like this

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Post by Krauser on Aug 22, 2022 15:10:48 GMT -6

Aug 22, 2022 14:41:07 GMT -6 oneanddone said:

You don't know that and neither does anyone else.

Sure I do, I've watched him play. He was a good prospect coming out of Alabama and developed nicely in the NFL before his injury. He has good traits and he uses them well.

He hasn't produced because he was stuck behind Rudolph and then missed a year due to injury. But assuming he's recovered well from his injury, he should be productive this year.

Aug 22, 2022 14:47:38 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

But if he breaks out this season, he's eligible for UFA and will command a high salary, maybe higher than Conklin got.

Smith is a TE1 and was always going to be much more expensive than Conklin, who got a high-end TE2 contract from the Jets. If he stays healthy this year, the floor for Smith's next contract is probably $13M, around the Njoku deal.

Aug 22, 2022 14:47:38 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

I'm not sure he is a "great scheme fit". Maybe because good TEs are hard to find, most offenses don't seem to need a TE as an integral receiving threat, and the Rams did not seem to emphasize one.

Smith is a good downfield receiver and a good-enough blocker in the box. That's very valuable in a scheme like McVay's. He can line up all over the formation. They can split him out wide by himself (as the X in a 3-by-1 set) and he can beat most safeties / LBs in coverage. They can bring him close to the formation in the slot or in bunch looks and he can block for the run game and get open as an intermediate target.

Aug 22, 2022 14:47:38 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

The stock of Spielman draftees doesn't seem to be faring well this week. Mond sliding towards the waiver wire. Smith-Marsette probably done as a punt returner, Davidson dropping passes. Watts, Jones, and Robinson all unimpressive.

Jones has been good. Watts is fine, he's a hit as a 6th round pick.

A bunch of the recent day 3 round picks have done well this preseason, including Wonnum, James Lynch, Brandel, Hinton, Nwangwu and ISM as a receiver (who cares about him as a punt returner).

Davidson and Robinson are disappointing and Mond unfortunately seems like a bust (along with Surratt and Wyatt Davis, so the 3rd round in 2021 was a disaster).

But overall there are hits to go with the misses.

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Rick Spielman's parting gifts... Aug 23, 2022 6:54:51 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Aug 23, 2022 6:54:51 GMT -6

Aug 22, 2022 15:10:48 GMT -6 Krauser said:

Aug 22, 2022 14:41:07 GMT -6 oneanddone said:

You don't know that and neither does anyone else.

Sure I do, I've watched him play. He was a good prospect coming out of Alabama and developed nicely in the NFL before his injury. He has good traits and he uses them well.

He hasn't produced because he was stuck behind Rudolph and then missed a year due to injury. But assuming he's recovered well from his injury, he should be productive this year.

Aug 22, 2022 14:47:38 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

But if he breaks out this season, he's eligible for UFA and will command a high salary, maybe higher than Conklin got.

Smith is a TE1 and was always going to be much more expensive than Conklin, who got a high-end TE2 contract from the Jets. If he stays healthy this year, the floor for Smith's next contract is probably $13M, around the Njoku deal.

Aug 22, 2022 14:47:38 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

I'm not sure he is a "great scheme fit". Maybe because good TEs are hard to find, most offenses don't seem to need a TE as an integral receiving threat, and the Rams did not seem to emphasize one.

Smith is a good downfield receiver and a good-enough blocker in the box. That's very valuable in a scheme like McVay's. He can line up all over the formation. They can split him out wide by himself (as the X in a 3-by-1 set) and he can beat most safeties / LBs in coverage. They can bring him close to the formation in the slot or in bunch looks and he can block for the run game and get open as an intermediate target.

Aug 22, 2022 14:47:38 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

The stock of Spielman draftees doesn't seem to be faring well this week. Mond sliding towards the waiver wire. Smith-Marsette probably done as a punt returner, Davidson dropping passes. Watts, Jones, and Robinson all unimpressive.

Jones has been good. Watts is fine, he's a hit as a 6th round pick.

A bunch of the recent day 3 round picks have done well this preseason, including Wonnum, James Lynch, Brandel, Hinton, Nwangwu and ISM as a receiver (who cares about him as a punt returner).

Davidson and Robinson are disappointing and Mond unfortunately seems like a bust (along with Surratt and Wyatt Davis, so the 3rd round in 2021 was a disaster).

But overall there are hits to go with the misses.

Jones has not been good, at least not in a real game anyway. He was the 3rd worst graded edge rusher of any rookie edge rusher last year at a 43 overall grade and has 1 pressure in 49 pass rushes. He has looked better in preseason and camp in a 3-4, but if he is a 3-4 edge rusher, why did Spielman spend a 3rd on him to put in a 4-3 defense?

Wonnum is just a dude and has hurt the team more than helped it with his play. Lynch has done nothing. Brandel has done nothing. Hinton has done nothing. Nwangwu is looking more and more like a bad RB who is pretty good at returns. ISM has done nothing.

Hits are guys who contribute to winning, like a KJ Osborne who actually was a nice Spielman find. They are not guys who could easily be replaced by an UDFA or some other team's castoffs.

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Rick Spielman's parting gifts... Aug 23, 2022 7:25:50 GMT -6

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Post by oneanddone on Aug 23, 2022 7:25:50 GMT -6

Aug 22, 2022 15:10:48 GMT -6 Krauser said:

Aug 22, 2022 14:41:07 GMT -6 oneanddone said:

You don't know that and neither does anyone else.

Sure I do, I've watched him play. He was a good prospect coming out of Alabama and developed nicely in the NFL before his injury. He has good traits and he uses them well.

He hasn't produced because he was stuck behind Rudolph and then missed a year due to injury. But assuming he's recovered well from his injury, he should be productive this year.

Aug 22, 2022 14:47:38 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

But if he breaks out this season, he's eligible for UFA and will command a high salary, maybe higher than Conklin got.

Smith is a TE1 and was always going to be much more expensive than Conklin, who got a high-end TE2 contract from the Jets. If he stays healthy this year, the floor for Smith's next contract is probably $13M, around the Njoku deal.

Aug 22, 2022 14:47:38 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

I'm not sure he is a "great scheme fit". Maybe because good TEs are hard to find, most offenses don't seem to need a TE as an integral receiving threat, and the Rams did not seem to emphasize one.

Smith is a good downfield receiver and a good-enough blocker in the box. That's very valuable in a scheme like McVay's. He can line up all over the formation. They can split him out wide by himself (as the X in a 3-by-1 set) and he can beat most safeties / LBs in coverage. They can bring him close to the formation in the slot or in bunch looks and he can block for the run game and get open as an intermediate target.

Aug 22, 2022 14:47:38 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

The stock of Spielman draftees doesn't seem to be faring well this week. Mond sliding towards the waiver wire. Smith-Marsette probably done as a punt returner, Davidson dropping passes. Watts, Jones, and Robinson all unimpressive.

Jones has been good. Watts is fine, he's a hit as a 6th round pick.

A bunch of the recent day 3 round picks have done well this preseason, including Wonnum, James Lynch, Brandel, Hinton, Nwangwu and ISM as a receiver (who cares about him as a punt returner).

Davidson and Robinson are disappointing and Mond unfortunately seems like a bust (along with Surratt and Wyatt Davis, so the 3rd round in 2021 was a disaster).

But overall there are hits to go with the misses.

Aug 22, 2022 15:10:48 GMT -6 Krauser said:

He hasn't produced because he was stuck behind Rudolph

If he was stuck behind Rudolph that ain't saying much for Smith.

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Rick Spielman's parting gifts... Aug 23, 2022 8:14:46 GMT -6 Danchat likes this

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Post by whoskmoon on Aug 23, 2022 8:14:46 GMT -6

Aug 22, 2022 13:23:35 GMT -6 Krauser said:

Aug 22, 2022 11:27:34 GMT -6 RickHasBeenFired said:

Good TE's are so hard to find, we didn't find one in the 2019 draft.

11th most receiving yards from any TE by the age of 22 since the year 2000: stathead.com/tiny/iRqwA

Also tied for 5th there with 7 TDs.

If the Vikings had just moved on from Rudolph a year earlier, Smith would've already had a breakout season in 2020. He's a good player.

Who was it who decided to not only hold on to Rudy, but give him a massive extension?

I still don't understand giving up a 2nd for a TE and then turn around and overpay the guy he was drafted to replace.

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Rick Spielman's parting gifts... Aug 23, 2022 8:44:56 GMT -6

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Post by Danchat on Aug 23, 2022 8:44:56 GMT -6

Aug 23, 2022 8:14:46 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Aug 22, 2022 13:23:35 GMT -6 Krauser said:

11th most receiving yards from any TE by the age of 22 since the year 2000: stathead.com/tiny/iRqwA

Also tied for 5th there with 7 TDs.

If the Vikings had just moved on from Rudolph a year earlier, Smith would've already had a breakout season in 2020. He's a good player.

Who was it who decided to not only hold on to Rudy, but give him a massive extension?

I still don't understand giving up a 2nd for a TE and then turn around and overpay the guy he was drafted to replace.

You and me both (and lot of the rest of us on the forum). I guess that was back when we used more 2TE packages, but it was still a bad move that many of us knew was going to fail.

It's disappointing that Smith Jr has accomplished so little in 3 years at the cost of a 2nd round pick, but I'm guessing from here on out he will be worth it. Hopefully extending him will be cheaper due to how little he's accomplished so far.

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Rick Spielman's parting gifts... Aug 23, 2022 9:26:56 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

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Post by dauntessmallhands on Aug 23, 2022 9:26:56 GMT -6

Aug 23, 2022 6:54:51 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Jones has not been good, at least not in a real game anyway. He was the 3rd worst graded edge rusher of any rookie edge rusher last year at a 43 overall grade and has 1 pressure in 49 pass rushes. He has looked better in preseason and camp in a 3-4, but if he is a 3-4 edge rusher, why did Spielman spend a 3rd on him to put in a 4-3 defense?

Wonnum is just a dude and has hurt the team more than helped it with his play. Lynch has done nothing. Brandel has done nothing. Hinton has done nothing. Nwangwu is looking more and more like a bad RB who is pretty good at returns. ISM has done nothing.

Hits are guys who contribute to winning, like a KJ Osborne who actually was a nice Spielman find. They are not guys who could easily be replaced by an UDFA or some other team's castoffs.

If that draft ends up a bust relative to defensive players as well, then it's Watts, Dantzler, and Bynum as the only regulars from 6 years of drafts.

No wonder Zimmer hated him and was super sour there at the end. This is what drove them apart. Not kirk.

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Rick Spielman's parting gifts... Aug 23, 2022 9:55:41 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

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Post by Krauser on Aug 23, 2022 9:55:41 GMT -6

Aug 23, 2022 6:54:51 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Jones has not been good, at least not in a real game anyway. He was the 3rd worst graded edge rusher of any rookie edge rusher last year at a 43 overall grade and has 1 pressure in 49 pass rushes. He has looked better in preseason and camp in a 3-4, but if he is a 3-4 edge rusher, why did Spielman spend a 3rd on him to put in a 4-3 defense?

Wonnum is just a dude and has hurt the team more than helped it with his play. Lynch has done nothing. Brandel has done nothing. Hinton has done nothing. Nwangwu is looking more and more like a bad RB who is pretty good at returns. ISM has done nothing.

Hits are guys who contribute to winning, like a KJ Osborne who actually was a nice Spielman find. They are not guys who could easily be replaced by an UDFA or some other team's castoffs.

See this is where the negativity can lead to a bad argument.

I was replying to someone saying Spielman's picks weren't "faring well this week". If we're talking about Mond's INTs and ISM fumbling a punt return in preseason this week, we can also talk about Jones, Lynch, Brandel and Hinton playing well in preseason. Otherwise it's a "heads-you-don't win, but tails-you-still-lose" situation -- where any negative takes are meaningful but any positive ones are dismissed as premature.

Patrick Jones improving probably has more to do with him getting a year experience than the new defensive scheme. He played in a 4-3 in college, often out of a 4-point stance, so it wasn't a stretch to draft him to play in the old scheme. As you say, he didn't play well at all in his first year, so I wasn't expecting much this year especially with him having to rush from a 2-point stance. But he's looked pretty good -- 6 pressures even if a couple were schemed up with stunts, and one led to him losing contain on Stidham's scramble TD. He's even been decent in coverage.

Wonnum has become underrated based on playing out of position for most of last year. He played pretty well in the last 6 weeks of 2021 as an outside pass rusher, and he's carried that over to preseason this year. He might still develop into a starter quality edge rusher, he's only 24.

Brandel and Hinton have been good too, especially Brandel who looks like a solid depth piece. He's got the 13th best grade this preseason of any OL drafted in the last 3 years, on a list of 191.

Nwangwu isn't a great ball carrier as a RB but he showed some ability as a receiver out of the backfield this preseason, which was a nice surprise.

I'm as big of a skeptic as anyone about ISM as an outside receiver but he's consistently gotten open in the middle of the field, earning his share of targets. I think he'll need to be used in a limited role, but he looks like he could be a good player.

So again, there are some positive signs with some players, just as there are some negative signs with others. It's a mixed bag. But I don't think it's fair to ignore the good performances and only focus on the bad.