2022 Offensive Line Discussion

snotbubbles
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2022 Offensive Line Discussion Dec 30, 2022 15:54:56 GMT -6

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Post by snotbubbles on Dec 30, 2022 15:54:56 GMT -6

Dec 30, 2022 9:34:31 GMT -6 kirko8 said:

This o-line is still not good. Yes we have a great RT and a very good LT but Ingram is a bust, Cleveland is not much better than him, and the C position is weak. To cover for the weak C and Gs they do a lot of scheming which means the OL will not be as good if you have to scheme for weak players it costs you in other areas.

Kirk has taken more hits this year than any QB in the past 20 plus years 125 and we have given up the 6th most sacks 45. Just in the last game vs NY Kirk was being hammered time and again even if not sacked. If there was any other QB starting for us we would be on our 3rd backup QB of the season due to injuries.

Despite a great RT and a very good LT the Gs are not that good and C is not that good. And scheming to protect them means the OL is not functioning properly. Just get a good C and 2 good Gs and then you will be okay. These 3 guys are not that good.

Here is the problem:

1. Have given up the 6th most sacks in the NFL 45.

2. Have allowed Kirk to be hit 125 times that is the most by a QB in twenty plus years.

3. The run game (we see Dalvin is still decent) is horrible: 28th in yards, 25th yards per rush, 30th in rush per game (you don't run if it is not working if it was we'd run more).

Our OL is worse than even I thought it was given we have a Pro Bowl Type RT and a very good LT. It is still bad.

Just an FYI the defense is really bad too:

1) 31st in opp. yards per game

2) 28th in opp. pts per game

Basically Kirk is doing this on his own with 1 legit WR (none of KJ Theilen Reagor are a legit #2 WR).

Agree that Bradbury is weak at C still despite improvement, would like a significant upgrade at that spot to finally shore up our IOL. i do believe Ingram has played better the last month or so and should continue to get better, but hey, I wouldnt mind much better play at the G spots but think we may be staying put, just my opinion.

kirko8
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2022 Offensive Line Discussion Dec 31, 2022 0:42:18 GMT -6

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Post by kirko8 on Dec 31, 2022 0:42:18 GMT -6

with the JJ extension and the tie ins to older players even if we cut them we will not have a lot of money to spend on Big Time FAs etc

We gave up draft picks for Hockenson so we don't have a lot draft capital for replacements or trades

This team has so many holes especially if our top 2 picks last year are as bad as appears and/or cannot come back from injuries and play at high level

We need guys like Ingram Asamoah Chandler to hit plus a few more Kwesi shrewd picks ups maybe...

This team has a ton of holes just look at the older players being paid a lot ... Hitman Dalvin (old for RB) Theilen the 2 LBs and what about Hunter new deal?

slapnut19
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2022 Offensive Line Discussion Dec 31, 2022 11:34:27 GMT -6 via mobile Danchat and oofda22 like this

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Post by slapnut19 on Dec 31, 2022 11:34:27 GMT -6

Dec 31, 2022 0:42:18 GMT -6 kirko8 said:

with the JJ extension and the tie ins to older players even if we cut them we will not have a lot of money to spend on Big Time FAs etc

We gave up draft picks for Hockenson so we don't have a lot draft capital for replacements or trades

This team has so many holes especially if our top 2 picks last year are as bad as appears and/or cannot come back from injuries and play at high level

We need guys like Ingram Asamoah Chandler to hit plus a few more Kwesi shrewd picks ups maybe...

This team has a ton of holes just look at the older players being paid a lot ... Hitman Dalvin (old for RB) Theilen the 2 LBs and what about Hunter new deal?

the Jefferson extension wouldn't start hitting the cap for at least another off season

oofda22
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2022 Offensive Line Discussion Jan 1, 2023 9:22:46 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by oofda22 on Jan 1, 2023 9:22:46 GMT -6

Dec 31, 2022 11:34:27 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

Dec 31, 2022 0:42:18 GMT -6 kirko8 said:

with the JJ extension and the tie ins to older players even if we cut them we will not have a lot of money to spend on Big Time FAs etc

We gave up draft picks for Hockenson so we don't have a lot draft capital for replacements or trades

This team has so many holes especially if our top 2 picks last year are as bad as appears and/or cannot come back from injuries and play at high level

We need guys like Ingram Asamoah Chandler to hit plus a few more Kwesi shrewd picks ups maybe...

This team has a ton of holes just look at the older players being paid a lot ... Hitman Dalvin (old for RB) Theilen the 2 LBs and what about Hunter new deal?

the Jefferson extension wouldn't start hitting the cap for at least another off season

Correct. Plus, JJ'd new contract can be structured to push more cap hit to the back end of the contract (if that is desired) by putting in void years and salary conversion language (allows the team to convert one year's base salary salary to bonus so that cap hit then gets spread out over the remaining years of the contract).

If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

whoskmoon
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2022 Offensive Line Discussion Jan 1, 2023 10:17:40 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Jan 1, 2023 10:17:40 GMT -6

Dec 31, 2022 11:34:27 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

Dec 31, 2022 0:42:18 GMT -6 kirko8 said:

with the JJ extension and the tie ins to older players even if we cut them we will not have a lot of money to spend on Big Time FAs etc

We gave up draft picks for Hockenson so we don't have a lot draft capital for replacements or trades

This team has so many holes especially if our top 2 picks last year are as bad as appears and/or cannot come back from injuries and play at high level

We need guys like Ingram Asamoah Chandler to hit plus a few more Kwesi shrewd picks ups maybe...

This team has a ton of holes just look at the older players being paid a lot ... Hitman Dalvin (old for RB) Theilen the 2 LBs and what about Hunter new deal?

the Jefferson extension wouldn't start hitting the cap for at least another off season

For the most part you are correct in that the big hit from his extension won't hit until 2024, but it is unlikely his cap hit won't increase at all with an extension. Realistically he will get a signing bonus that increases his cap hit by at least 2-3 million.

whoskmoon
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2022 Offensive Line Discussion Jan 1, 2023 10:27:05 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Jan 1, 2023 10:27:05 GMT -6

Dec 29, 2022 8:35:03 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Dec 28, 2022 20:36:47 GMT -6 wxman91 said:

Does anyone have a number on runs that are stuffed for negative yardage? It seems like that is happening several times a game.

Not exactly what you're looking for, but this was mentioned the other day:

And although he is only averaging 4.46 yards per carry, which would be the worst mark of his career, it’s worth noting that he is only averaging 1.21 yards per carry before contact, which would also be the worst mark of his career.

Cook’s average of 3.26 yards gained after contact not only would rank as the second highest of his career, but it also ranks eighth best among 39 running backs this season with at least 100 carries.

Cook needs some more help out there!

This stat can't be true, since PFF has the Vikings as the 4th best run blocking unit in the NFL. Better than SF, Philly, Dallas and Cleveland. Guess Cook is really just that bad and Mattison is even worse. Arguably the worst RBs in the NFL if PFF is correct with how little production we are getting out of them despite having a top 5 run blocking Oline.

Last Edit: Jan 1, 2023 10:28:17 GMT -6 by whoskmoon

kirko8
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2022 Offensive Line Discussion Jan 1, 2023 13:15:45 GMT -6

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Post by kirko8 on Jan 1, 2023 13:15:45 GMT -6

That is a great find. So the only good part of the running game is Cook's 4+ yards gained but if he is gaining most of that after contact the OL is really bad at run blocking it's just that Cook is really good at running. Oh my God imagine if we had just an AVERAGE run blocking line let alone a TOP run blocking line that means Cook would be gaining (I don't know what Cook has averaged in his career Pre-Contact but even 2 or 2.5 pre-contact would mean he would be averaging over 5 yards per carry instead of 4). This oline is holding this team back so much in running and passing. Imagine if Kirk wasn't being sacked at the 6th highest rate and being hit 125 times a game the offense would be even more explosive.

However as bad as our OL and Defense are and they are bad. They only have to hold up on game winning drives. We need the OL to allow Kirk to have those game winning drives. They don't and likely won't be able to do it all game just be there at the end (and of course) allow us to remain in the game so that last drive is meaningful ditto the defense they just need to keep us in the game and IF the other team has a potential game winning drive come up big then.

This team has so a lot of holes (where there are weak or older players) to fill this off-season CB S (argh!) LB #2WR maybe even DL --- but really when you look at the numbers the OL is a huge need (the All Pro IMO LT and the Top 15ish LT don't matter if you have real weakness at G G C - the interior of the line is weak and when you play excellent DTs who can get to QBs and when teams run stunts up the middle you will be screwed. You cannot get a RB 2 yards of non-contact and you allow 6th most sacks. We would be scoring way more in games if we had a good OL at this point I think this team needs to look at drafting a Center and at least 1 more Guard despite the holes elsewhere (if only Cine and/or Booth could work out which I doubt).

Last Edit: Jan 1, 2023 13:28:33 GMT -6 by kirko8

Funkytown Owner Purple Pain Big Dog Posts: 67,627 Likes: 31,559 Fan Since: 1998	2022 Offensive Line Discussion Jan 2, 2023 14:56:36 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Funkytown on Jan 2, 2023 14:56:36 GMT -6

VikingsBoss
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2022 Offensive Line Discussion Jan 2, 2023 14:59:56 GMT -6 via mobile Danchat, andhesloose28, and 2 more like this

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Post by VikingsBoss on Jan 2, 2023 14:59:56 GMT -6

I don't care how Bradbury looks in practice, there should be zero chance O'Connell plays him this week. Zero. Reed, Hinton, Sokol, I don't care, but Bradbury doesn't even dress until WC weekend.

The Cardinals have knocked the Vikings out of the playoffs! NO!-Paul Allen, December 28th, 2003

Funkytown Owner Purple Pain Big Dog Posts: 67,627 Likes: 31,559 Fan Since: 1998	2022 Offensive Line Discussion Jan 2, 2023 15:24:59 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Funkytown on Jan 2, 2023 15:24:59 GMT -6

Purple Pain
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2022 Offensive Line Discussion Jan 3, 2023 9:30:10 GMT -6

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Post by Purple Pain on Jan 3, 2023 9:30:10 GMT -6

Kirk Cousins was sacked twice against GB and has now taken a career-high 46 sacks this season. Only Fields and Russell Wilson have been sacked more.

*surrender*

O'Connell ruled out O'Neill for Sunday's regular-season finale at Chicago. Oli Udoh replaced O'Neill in Green Bay and is expected to start against the Bears.

"Flashed some real traits that Oli's always shown," O'Connell said Monday. "Obviously, there's going to be some things when he didn't get a lot of repetition in practice that you can improve on, and we're hoping that he's able to do that with a week of prep leading in."

Udoh could stay in the starting lineup if O'Neill can't return for the playoffs. A calf strain previously sidelined defensive lineman Dalvin Tomlinson for four weeks this year. Udoh entered the season fourth on the depth chart at tackle, where the Vikings lost top backup Blake Brandel to an MCL sprain in the Dec. 11 loss in Detroit.

The Vikings could also remain without center Garrett Bradbury, who has missed the past four games because of a lower back injury. Bradbury hasn't practiced since a Dec. 17 car accident, which he called a "setback" for the injury,
Chris Reed, who made his first appearance in an NFL game as a center Sunday, could make his first NFL start at center against the Bears. Center Austin Schlottmann, who was replacing Bradbury, went down on the fifth play at Green Bay with a fractured fibula. After Bradbury exited, the Vikings were flagged for two false starts when Reed appeared to not snap the ball on time.

The Vikings have to get Reed "as much repetition as we can," O'Connell said.

O'Connell said he hopes Bradbury's back heals in time for the playoff opener in two weeks.

"I know he's progressing and feeling better and better," O'Connell said. "My hope is at some point we can get him back, get him real practice reps and see how that thing responds. ... Hope is we'll have him back."

Funkytown Owner Purple Pain Big Dog Posts: 67,627 Likes: 31,559 Fan Since: 1998	2022 Offensive Line Discussion Jan 3, 2023 14:20:41 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Funkytown on Jan 3, 2023 14:20:41 GMT -6

Deleted Ghosted Member Posts: 0 Likes:	2022 Offensive Line Discussion Jan 3, 2023 23:58:58 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2023 23:58:58 GMT -6

Deleted Ghosted Member Posts: 0 Likes:	2022 Offensive Line Discussion Jan 4, 2023 0:02:50 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2023 0:02:50 GMT -6 I‘m excited about Mancz. Come on down
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Josey Wales
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2022 Offensive Line Discussion Jan 4, 2023 0:21:24 GMT -6 via mobile snotbubbles likes this

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Post by Josey Wales on Jan 4, 2023 0:21:24 GMT -6

Jan 3, 2023 23:58:58 GMT -6 dougpaschal said:

Sorry, but Bradbury needs to apologize for his first 4 years of utter suckitude and complete whiffs, getting Kirk killed virtually every week, and sometimes multiple times in the same game.

And that was from watching it unfold with my own eyes, FTR.

Congrats Garrett, it only took you 5 years to learn your position!

Last Edit: Jan 4, 2023 0:52:45 GMT -6 by Josey Wales