With the 11th pick, your Minnesota Vikings select...

Uncle
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With the 11th pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 20, 2024 22:06:34 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan, kmillard, and 4 more like this

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Post by Uncle on Feb 20, 2024 22:06:34 GMT -6

Feb 20, 2024 20:04:13 GMT -6 sky4it said:

To rule out the Broncos and Falcons trade offer the Falcons our second and first and tab McCarthy

I actually thought of another trade-up scenario that lands a different QB...

Let's say the Bears do what the Texans did last year and "double-dip" in the Top 3: use the #1 overall pick for QB Caleb Williams and when Washington selects QB Jayden Daniels #2 overall, Chicago then trades up from #9 to #3 with New England and uses QB Justin Fields as the compensation and selects WR Marin Harrison, Jr. to pair with Williams...

Now Arizona is on the clock at #4 and with Harrison, Jr. off the board, they start fielding calls to trade down. Of course, with QB Drake Maye on the boarrd, there are multiple teams calling them, one them being Kwesi and the Vikings. Since it was reported that Minnesota attempted to work with Arizona last Draft to move up for a QB, they already have some familiarity with each other. One reason why the trade last year probably didn't happen is that Arizona didn't want to drop that far back in the 1st (23rd overall), but #11 overall is a much more comfortable position to drop.

To see how much that might cost the Vikings to move up to #4, let's look back at what the 49ers gave up to move up from #12 to #3 prior to the 2021 Draft:

San Francisco received:
2021 Pick #3 (Rd 1): 514 pts
Total pts: 514 pts

Miami received:
2021 Pick #12 (Rd 1): 347 pts
2022 Pick #29 (Rd 1): 202 pts
2022 Pick #101 (Rd 3): 34 pts
2023 Pick #29 (Rd 1): 202 pts
Total pts: 785 pts

The 271 pt differential is overstated due to the lesser value that future picks have, but there is still a "tax" on moving up in Rd 1 for a QB, especially in the Top 5 and especially well before the Draft (the trade occurred on 3/26/21 - nearly 2 months before Day 1 of the 2021 Draft). The Vikings would be moving up 2 less positions (#11 to #4 instead of #12 to #3) and they would be doing so on Draft night, so there's a bit "less" time for Arizona to work the trade value charts and maximize the total return.

A potential trade-up scenario to #4 might look something like this:

MIN receives:
2024 Pick #4 (Rd 1): 491 pts
2024 Pick #66 (Rd 3): 76 pts
Total pts: 567 pts

ARI receives:
2024 Pick #11 (Rd 1): 358 pts
2024 Pick #42 (Rd 2): 142 pts
2025 Pick #18 (Rd 1): 287 pts
Total pts: 787 pts

Minnesota gives Arizona their 1st in 2025 (which I estimated to be around #18 overall) and then they swap Day 2 picks in 2024: Arizona moves up from #66 (top of Rd 3) to Minnesota's spot in Rd 2 at #42 while the Vikings drop 24 spots on Day 2 to the top of Rd 3. That gives Arizona 4 overall picks in the Top 50, another 1st Rd pick next year, and Minnesota receives a Top 5 QB prospect in Drake Maye to pair with O'Connell and their offensive weapons. The Viking's still pay a "QB Tax" like SF did, but not quite as much with only a 220-ot differential vs the 271 pt differential SF "paid" to move up in 2021.

The end result of these two "blockbuster" 2024 Day 1 trades is the following:

Chicago: QB Caleb Williams and WR Marvin Harrison, Jr.
New England: QB Justin Fields and #9 overall pick in 2024 for an OT or WR
Minnesota: QB Drake Maye
Arizona: 4 picks in the Top 50 and an extra 1st in 2025

The NFC North would have the following QB1's: Jared Goff, Jordan Love, Caleb Williams and Drake Maye...

Last Edit: Feb 20, 2024 22:11:24 GMT -6 by Uncle

PurpleFloyd
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With the 11th pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 20, 2024 22:59:32 GMT -6 via mobile legendsofthenorth likes this

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Feb 20, 2024 22:59:32 GMT -6

Feb 20, 2024 21:49:50 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

Feb 20, 2024 20:36:40 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

I was saying to take JJ during the season when the Rubes were all still in love with Penix. But our roster needs every player and I wouldn’t stack picks to take one guy where we are. It would be better with this much demand to trade back if anything and build depth for the future.

There is another option as well. That is to look at the last 2 years where we likely have a combined 8 QBs taken in the top 10 and decide to go into 24 with Hall and Dobbs and a bunch of young players around them and if they turn out to be busts we could have the first pick in 2025 and get our QBotf without giving up picks plus the talent we added this year around them which sets them up to be in a better position to succeed than trading a bunch of picks this year and get a guy without having draft picks to build around them

When were you saying take JJ?

During the college season

diehardtwinsfan
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With the 11th pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 21, 2024 7:38:20 GMT -6

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on Feb 21, 2024 7:38:20 GMT -6

Feb 20, 2024 22:06:34 GMT -6 Uncle said:

Chicago: QB Caleb Williams and WR Marvin Harrison, Jr.
New England: QB Justin Fields and #9 overall pick in 2024 for an OT or WR
Minnesota: QB Drake Maye
Arizona: 4 picks in the Top 50 and an extra 1st in 2025

I wouldn't cry over that from a cost standpoint... I have some pretty strong reservations about Maye in particular, but that's a different conversation.

andhesloose28
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With the 11th pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 21, 2024 9:53:39 GMT -6

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Post by andhesloose28 on Feb 21, 2024 9:53:39 GMT -6

Feb 21, 2024 7:38:20 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

Feb 20, 2024 22:06:34 GMT -6 Uncle said:

Chicago: QB Caleb Williams and WR Marvin Harrison, Jr.
New England: QB Justin Fields and #9 overall pick in 2024 for an OT or WR
Minnesota: QB Drake Maye
Arizona: 4 picks in the Top 50 and an extra 1st in 2025

I wouldn't cry over that from a cost standpoint... I have some pretty strong reservations about Maye in particular, but that's a different conversation.

I still am on the fence about moving up, I think this draft is the biggest in the Kwesi/Kevin regime, and the offseason in general. The QB is obviously the most important position, but after this regime severely botched 22' draft they are playing catch up now. Its hard to catch up when you are constantly giving up draft capital, Hock trade looked great at first but I have my doubts now, I think that was more made for an all in move in 22' they thought they were legit at first. It is not ideal to build a team through FA, which is the way we would be headed if we continue not having high draft picks. Ill list some pros and cons I believe are important in the discussion, because I believe this a very realistic thing to happen if Kirk does end up walking. Feel free to add any you guys think I missed.

Pros:

Secure the future QB possibly/hopefully
Assumed letting Kirk walk, opening up 25' cap space and window
JJ happy, future QB buddy
Hand picked QB by Kevin to run his system, build around
Possibly high draft pick in 25'? Probably rebuilding year.
Gives Kwesi/Kevin more time possibly?

Cons:

Basically punting rest of draft unless they find day 3 gems, track record not good
Giving up more future capital on a roster that lacks talent
Assumed Hunter is gone, your defense is not going to be adding any high end talent through draft, unless you get lucky on day 3
Gives Kwesi/Kevin more time possibly?

Last Edit: Feb 21, 2024 9:55:29 GMT -6 by andhesloose28

mikenessfan
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With the 11th pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 21, 2024 10:18:14 GMT -6 via mobile andhesloose28 and Drank like this

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Post by mikenessfan on Feb 21, 2024 10:18:14 GMT -6

Feb 21, 2024 9:53:39 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

Feb 21, 2024 7:38:20 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

I wouldn't cry over that from a cost standpoint... I have some pretty strong reservations about Maye in particular, but that's a different conversation.

I still am on the fence about moving up, I think this draft is the biggest in the Kwesi/Kevin regime, and the offseason in general. The QB is obviously the most important position, but after this regime severely botched 22' draft they are playing catch up now. Its hard to catch up when you are constantly giving up draft capital, Hock trade looked great at first but I have my doubts now, I think that was more made for an all in move in 22' they thought they were legit at first. It is not ideal to build a team through FA, which is the way we would be headed if we continue not having high draft picks. I’ll list some pros and cons I believe are important in the discussion, because I believe this a very realistic thing to happen if Kirk does end up walking. Feel free to add any you guys think I missed.

Pros:

Secure the future QB possibly/hopefully
Assumed letting Kirk walk, opening up 25' cap space and window
JJ happy, future QB buddy
Hand picked QB by Kevin to run his system, build around
Possibly high draft pick in 25'? Probably rebuilding year.
Gives Kwesi/Kevin more time possibly?

Cons:

Basically punting rest of draft unless they find day 3 gems, track record not good
Giving up more future capital on a roster that lacks talent
Assumed Hunter is gone, your defense is not going to be adding any high end talent through draft, unless you get lucky on day 3
Gives Kwesi/Kevin more time possibly?

Well I will say that this qb class is the deepest it’s been in awhile and this is the year to be drafting a qb early. Which lines up well with our qb situation. I can also tell you (even though this could change) right now next years qb class isn’t very deep and much weaker than this year so if we are determining whether to kick the can down the road another year on drafting a qb early next year doesn’t look like a good qb class to be drafting one as of now. This is the year to do it. If kwesi plans on kicking the drafting a qb until 2026 he might be out of a job by that point. So if he is deciding between this year and next year it would be th is year as the better draft for a qb. I hope he understands this.

indianavikes
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With the 11th pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 21, 2024 10:23:50 GMT -6

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Post by indianavikes on Feb 21, 2024 10:23:50 GMT -6

Feb 20, 2024 22:06:34 GMT -6 Uncle said:

Feb 20, 2024 20:04:13 GMT -6 sky4it said:

To rule out the Broncos and Falcons trade offer the Falcons our second and first and tab McCarthy

I actually thought of another trade-up scenario that lands a different QB...

Let's say the Bears do what the Texans did last year and "double-dip" in the Top 3: use the #1 overall pick for QB Caleb Williams and when Washington selects QB Jayden Daniels #2 overall, Chicago then trades up from #9 to #3 with New England and uses QB Justin Fields as the compensation and selects WR Marin Harrison, Jr. to pair with Williams...

Now Arizona is on the clock at #4 and with Harrison, Jr. off the board, they start fielding calls to trade down. Of course, with QB Drake Maye on the boarrd, there are multiple teams calling them, one them being Kwesi and the Vikings. Since it was reported that Minnesota attempted to work with Arizona last Draft to move up for a QB, they already have some familiarity with each other. One reason why the trade last year probably didn't happen is that Arizona didn't want to drop that far back in the 1st (23rd overall), but #11 overall is a much more comfortable position to drop.

To see how much that might cost the Vikings to move up to #4, let's look back at what the 49ers gave up to move up from #12 to #3 prior to the 2021 Draft:

San Francisco received:
2021 Pick #3 (Rd 1): 514 pts
Total pts: 514 pts

Miami received:
2021 Pick #12 (Rd 1): 347 pts
2022 Pick #29 (Rd 1): 202 pts
2022 Pick #101 (Rd 3): 34 pts
2023 Pick #29 (Rd 1): 202 pts
Total pts: 785 pts

The 271 pt differential is overstated due to the lesser value that future picks have, but there is still a "tax" on moving up in Rd 1 for a QB, especially in the Top 5 and especially well before the Draft (the trade occurred on 3/26/21 - nearly 2 months before Day 1 of the 2021 Draft). The Vikings would be moving up 2 less positions (#11 to #4 instead of #12 to #3) and they would be doing so on Draft night, so there's a bit "less" time for Arizona to work the trade value charts and maximize the total return.

A potential trade-up scenario to #4 might look something like this:

MIN receives:
2024 Pick #4 (Rd 1): 491 pts
2024 Pick #66 (Rd 3): 76 pts
Total pts: 567 pts

ARI receives:
2024 Pick #11 (Rd 1): 358 pts
2024 Pick #42 (Rd 2): 142 pts
2025 Pick #18 (Rd 1): 287 pts
Total pts: 787 pts

Minnesota gives Arizona their 1st in 2025 (which I estimated to be around #18 overall) and then they swap Day 2 picks in 2024: Arizona moves up from #66 (top of Rd 3) to Minnesota's spot in Rd 2 at #42 while the Vikings drop 24 spots on Day 2 to the top of Rd 3. That gives Arizona 4 overall picks in the Top 50, another 1st Rd pick next year, and Minnesota receives a Top 5 QB prospect in Drake Maye to pair with O'Connell and their offensive weapons. The Viking's still pay a "QB Tax" like SF did, but not quite as much with only a 220-ot differential vs the 271 pt differential SF "paid" to move up in 2021.

The end result of these two "blockbuster" 2024 Day 1 trades is the following:

Chicago: QB Caleb Williams and WR Marvin Harrison, Jr.
New England: QB Justin Fields and #9 overall pick in 2024 for an OT or WR
Minnesota: QB Drake Maye
Arizona: 4 picks in the Top 50 and an extra 1st in 2025

The NFC North would have the following QB1's: Jared Goff, Jordan Love, Caleb Williams and Drake Maye...

I do not want to give up 2025 1st round pick. What if Vikings get 2015 pick #1 (Rd 1)?

Look what happen to Carolina Panthers! Chicago Bears has Carolina's pick #1 this year.

andhesloose28
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With the 11th pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 21, 2024 10:39:12 GMT -6

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Post by andhesloose28 on Feb 21, 2024 10:39:12 GMT -6

Feb 21, 2024 10:18:14 GMT -6 mikenessfan said:

Well I will say that this qb class is the deepest it’s been in awhile and this is the year to be drafting a qb early. Which lines up well with our qb situation. I can also tell you (even though this could change) right now next years qb class isn’t very deep and much weaker than this year so if we are determining whether to kick the can down the road another year on drafting a qb early next year doesn’t look like a good qb class to be drafting one as of now. This is the year to do it. If kwesi plans on kicking the drafting a qb until 2026 he might be out of a job by that point. So if he is deciding between this year and next year it would be th is year as the better draft for a qb. I hope he understands this.

Agreed, its why I see it happening this year. I was more talking the trade up part as a discussion.

Uncle
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With the 11th pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 21, 2024 10:45:51 GMT -6 andhesloose28 likes this

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Post by Uncle on Feb 21, 2024 10:45:51 GMT -6

Feb 21, 2024 10:23:50 GMT -6 indianavikes said:

I do not want to give up 2025 1st round pick. What if Vikings get 2015 pick #1 (Rd 1)?

Look what happen to Carolina Panthers! Chicago Bears has Carolina's pick #1 this year.

I hear ya - giving up a future 1st is costly - but it's highly unlikely that the Vikings would finish 2024 with only 2 wins (like the Panthers did in 2023) given that they will probably have more talent than Carolina did in 2023 (Jefferson, Addison, two solid OT's, etc.). It's certainly reasonable that the Vikings could finish 2024 with 6-8 wins, possibly giving Arizona a Top 15 pick in 2025, but I doubt it would be Top 5.

Also, I just presented a hypothetical trade-up scenario should QB prospect Drake Maye "fall" to the 4th overall spot to Arizona and the possible cost that Minnesota would need to pay to trade-up to that spot, should they want to. Given the reports that Minnesota tried to move into the Top 10 in the 2023 Draft with Arizona from their 23rd overall position in Round 1 and that they haven't extended Kirk (either last year or so far this year), is an indication that the Vikings are seriously considering taking a QB in the early Rounds of the 2024 Draft and if they really like one of the top QB prospects like Drake Maye (who is expected to go in the Top 5), they would probably need to part with their 2025 1st Rd pick as part of the cost of that trade-up...

Also, while I do agree that there are several examples of trading-up for a QB in Rd 1 not working out for the team that traded-up (Trey Lance and Bryce Young being recent examples), there have been some examples of teams trading-up for a QB they want and having that QB have success. The most common example of that is Patrick Mahomes as Kansas City traded a future 1st Rd pick to move up in the 2017 Draft, but the following year in 2018 the Bills moved into the Top 10 from their 12th overall spot for QB Josh Allen and gave up two Round 2 selections that same Draft and it worked out for them so far.

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With the 11th pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 21, 2024 11:00:41 GMT -6 VikingsVictorious likes this

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on Feb 21, 2024 11:00:41 GMT -6

The Vikings had pretty much everything go wrong this year to get them to 11. I could see a similar crap show of a season, but I still think the 2025 pick is probably in the bottom part of the top 10 personally. I would hope though with the weapons around a young QB and a better backup strategy that at worst we're seeing 8-9. We have a decent amount of money to spend to start plugging holes, so if KAM remains flexible after drafting a QBOTF, I'll be a bit concerned. The whole point of a QBOTF is to take advantage of the cheap contract, so I would expect KAM to do so...

Now personally I'd rather trade down and acquire some picks and more cheap talent and get Nix vs going up for Maye or Daniels, but if they are set on going up and that's the cost, I wouldn't cry over only a 2025 1st and swapping our 2nd for a 3rd. That won't turn us into Carolina.

mikenessfan
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With the 11th pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 21, 2024 12:18:04 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by mikenessfan on Feb 21, 2024 12:18:04 GMT -6

Feb 21, 2024 11:00:41 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

The Vikings had pretty much everything go wrong this year to get them to 11. I could see a similar crap show of a season, but I still think the 2025 pick is probably in the bottom part of the top 10 personally. I would hope though with the weapons around a young QB and a better backup strategy that at worst we're seeing 8-9. We have a decent amount of money to spend to start plugging holes, so if KAM remains flexible after drafting a QBOTF, I'll be a bit concerned. The whole point of a QBOTF is to take advantage of the cheap contract, so I would expect KAM to do so...

Now personally I'd rather trade down and acquire some picks and more cheap talent and get Nix vs going up for Maye or Daniels, but if they are set on going up and that's the cost, I wouldn't cry over only a 2025 1st and swapping our 2nd for a 3rd. That won't turn us into Carolina.

What if it goes 1. Williams, 2. Maye 3. Daniels is some order like that? If McCarthy falls to 11 you’re telling me you wouldn’t just take him there? I think his ceiling is much higher than nix from all the research and scout podcast I’ve been listening to. If we trade back to like 18 or 19 it’s highly likely the fourth qb is gone at that point and most likely would be McCarthy. So would we feel good about taking nix whose ceiling isn’t too high probably on the same level as a picket or Tannehill when they came out. I know I wouldn’t I want the guy with the higher upside. Imo and I could be totally wrong here but I don’t think nix is going to get a whole lot better than what he is now. Sure I think he could get a little better but not much better. He could be a decent starting qb. But if I’m taking a qb in round one I am shooting for more than that. Mccarthy ceiling is much higher than nix and I am taking the chance on him over nix. Yes there are questions with McCarthy for sure, but he is a better qb prospect. I would not start him week one though I will tell you that. Bring in a ver bridge guy and let McCarthy sit and develop for half the year or whole year depending on how KOC feels his developing is going.

andhesloose28
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With the 11th pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 21, 2024 12:20:43 GMT -6

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Post by andhesloose28 on Feb 21, 2024 12:20:43 GMT -6

Feb 21, 2024 10:45:51 GMT -6 Uncle said:

Also, while I do agree that there are several examples of trading-up for a QB in Rd 1 not working out for the team that traded-up (Trey Lance and Bryce Young being recent examples), there have been some examples of teams trading-up for a QB they want and having that QB have success. The most common example of that is Patrick Mahomes as Kansas City traded a future 1st Rd pick to move up in the 2017 Draft, but the following year in 2018 the Bills moved into the Top 10 from their 12th overall spot for QB Josh Allen and gave up two Round 2 selections that same Draft and it worked out for them so far.

My rebuttal to that without talking about the QB hitting or not, would be the rest of the team. You could sell me that this is arguably one of the best situations offensively that a rookie could come into. But that defense is brutal especially with Hunter leaving. I think the Chiefs and Bills overall were a lot better overall teams at the time. Really just a QB away, whereas I dont see us in that position. I guess we would be more Cheifs if anything comparing Kirk to Alex Smith. I get it you have a bunch of cap space to fix these holes, but you have to nail the remaining of your draft selections and your giving up premium ones. Its for sure the time to go for the QB I think based on the class. Itll be interesting to see how it plays out I cant say I would be mad either way I understand both sides.

andhesloose28
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With the 11th pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 21, 2024 12:27:26 GMT -6

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Post by andhesloose28 on Feb 21, 2024 12:27:26 GMT -6

Feb 21, 2024 12:18:04 GMT -6 mikenessfan said:

What if it goes 1. Williams, 2. Maye 3. Daniels is some order like that? If McCarthy falls to 11 you’re telling me you wouldn’t just take him there?

I think thats the ideal scenario, but it seems he may not last to there. The reality is we have to wait for Kirk and Fields dominoes to fall, once that happens well have a better idea of who is really in the market for a QB. Ideally the Falcons nab one of them that should be our first hope. Maybe Kwesi will have the inside info of what he needs to do to get what but I think there are going to be too many wild cards to just sit at 11 and hope if you really are set on a QB this year and the top 4 (5 being Nix).

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With the 11th pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 21, 2024 12:29:46 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by mikenessfan on Feb 21, 2024 12:29:46 GMT -6

Feb 21, 2024 12:20:43 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

Feb 21, 2024 10:45:51 GMT -6 Uncle said:

Also, while I do agree that there are several examples of trading-up for a QB in Rd 1 not working out for the team that traded-up (Trey Lance and Bryce Young being recent examples), there have been some examples of teams trading-up for a QB they want and having that QB have success. The most common example of that is Patrick Mahomes as Kansas City traded a future 1st Rd pick to move up in the 2017 Draft, but the following year in 2018 the Bills moved into the Top 10 from their 12th overall spot for QB Josh Allen and gave up two Round 2 selections that same Draft and it worked out for them so far.

My rebuttal to that without talking about the QB hitting or not, would be the rest of the team. You could sell me that this is arguably one of the best situations offensively that a rookie could come into. But that defense is brutal especially with Hunter leaving. I think the Chiefs and Bills overall were a lot better overall teams at the time. Really just a QB away, whereas I dont see us in that position. I guess we would be more Cheifs if anything comparing Kirk to Alex Smith. I get it you have a bunch of cap space to fix these holes, but you have to nail the remaining of your draft selections and your giving up premium ones. Its for sure the time to go for the QB I think based on the class. Itll be interesting to see how it plays out I cant say I would be mad either way I understand both sides.

And my rebuttal to that would be are we truly competing to win in 2024? Like are we going to realistically win some playoff games this upcoming year? Or is it to put on a front the team is ok with winning 8-9 games? Because after this year the cap space if we don’t bring back kirk or Danielle is going to be massive like top 5 big. If we are sold on a qb that he is going to be a top 10 potentially top 5 qb of the nfl for a long long time it would be worth the trade up for. I’m not saying give away 4 first round picks, but I am saying if we are sold on one of the top 3 qbs and it will be a tough plate of vegetables to eat, we might have to pinch the nose and open wide. Because once you get those veggies in you, your body will be thanking you in the future.

andhesloose28
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With the 11th pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 21, 2024 12:50:55 GMT -6 Drank likes this

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Post by andhesloose28 on Feb 21, 2024 12:50:55 GMT -6

Feb 21, 2024 12:29:46 GMT -6 mikenessfan said:

Feb 21, 2024 12:20:43 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

My rebuttal to that without talking about the QB hitting or not, would be the rest of the team. You could sell me that this is arguably one of the best situations offensively that a rookie could come into. But that defense is brutal especially with Hunter leaving. I think the Chiefs and Bills overall were a lot better overall teams at the time. Really just a QB away, whereas I dont see us in that position. I guess we would be more Cheifs if anything comparing Kirk to Alex Smith. I get it you have a bunch of cap space to fix these holes, but you have to nail the remaining of your draft selections and your giving up premium ones. Its for sure the time to go for the QB I think based on the class. Itll be interesting to see how it plays out I cant say I would be mad either way I understand both sides.

And my rebuttal to that would be are we truly competing to win in 2024? Like are we going to realistically win some playoff games this upcoming year? Or is it to put on a front the team is ok with winning 8-9 games? Because after this year the cap space if we don’t bring back kirk or Danielle is going to be massive like top 5 big. If we are sold on a qb that he is going to be a top 10 potentially top 5 qb of the nfl for a long long time it would be worth the trade up for. I’m not saying give away 4 first round picks, but I am saying if we are sold on one of the top 3 qbs and it will be a tough plate of vegetables to eat, we might have to pinch the nose and open wide. Because once you get those veggies in you, your body will be thanking you in the future.

Oh in none of my scenarios are we going to compete in 2024 (realistically) I guess their is always the Stroud chance last year, but yes im fine if we "suck" in 2024. I dont want to bring back Hunter and Kirk and I think thats the only way we do have a possible shot in 2024. I think that would be a mistake. Clean our books take both of their dead cap hits in 2024 and lets roll in 2025, thats my starter to any scenario.

Thats why I said I get it you have a bunch of cap space to fill these holes, but again assuming your giving up your 2nd this year no matter what in any trade up, (you have no third) and then possibly your first next year it does make me hesitant. Those are meat and potatoes picks, and you are already playing catch up from a huge botched 22' draft. That Dline is going to be brutal, legit no talent and those guys dont grow on trees you have to use high capital to get them for the most part which we havent in years. You have no starting LG under contract, and I think its time to replace Bradbury as well. Nothing is going to be a year fix , and I dont think its ideal to build a team thru FA which is what we would be relying on giving up big draft capital.

You cant just say oh well we dont hit our draft picks anyway..which is true for the most part but its the reason we are in the position we are in. Kirks cap hit hasnt helped but this team has drafted poorly for the most part for years. Havent nailed a class since 2015, obviously few hits here or there and big ones in JJ and Darrisaw. But you need more starters or at least depth out of these classes. Im sure most have done it or know them but seriously go back and look at the drafts we've had since 2016. Its brutal

Last Edit: Feb 21, 2024 12:54:45 GMT -6 by andhesloose28

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With the 11th pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 21, 2024 13:05:15 GMT -6 via mobile andhesloose28 likes this

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Post by FSUVike on Feb 21, 2024 13:05:15 GMT -6

Feb 21, 2024 12:29:46 GMT -6 mikenessfan said:

Feb 21, 2024 12:20:43 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

My rebuttal to that without talking about the QB hitting or not, would be the rest of the team. You could sell me that this is arguably one of the best situations offensively that a rookie could come into. But that defense is brutal especially with Hunter leaving. I think the Chiefs and Bills overall were a lot better overall teams at the time. Really just a QB away, whereas I dont see us in that position. I guess we would be more Cheifs if anything comparing Kirk to Alex Smith. I get it you have a bunch of cap space to fix these holes, but you have to nail the remaining of your draft selections and your giving up premium ones. Its for sure the time to go for the QB I think based on the class. Itll be interesting to see how it plays out I cant say I would be mad either way I understand both sides.

And my rebuttal to that would be are we truly competing to win in 2024? Like are we going to realistically win some playoff games this upcoming year? Or is it to put on a front the team is ok with winning 8-9 games? Because after this year the cap space if we don’t bring back kirk or Danielle is going to be massive like top 5 big. If we are sold on a qb that he is going to be a top 10 potentially top 5 qb of the nfl for a long long time it would be worth the trade up for. I’m not saying give away 4 first round picks, but I am saying if we are sold on one of the top 3 qbs and it will be a tough plate of vegetables to eat, we might have to pinch the nose and open wide. Because once you get those veggies in you, your body will be thanking you in the future.

And the rebuttal to the rebuttal to the rebuttal is how many Teams were built primarily via Free Agency that won the Superbowl?

The Rams drafted Cupp and Donald. And a bevy of other Players that they complimented with Stafford, Whitworth, Ramsey and Beckham. Minnesota has foundational Players on Offense but none at the premiere Defensive spots (Edge, CB). They also have no Interior Pass Rush.

If you move up to #3, #4 or #5 you will have to overpay for your pass rush in Free Agency. Brian Burns likely gets tagged. As does Josh Allen. So now you're overpaying for Bryce Huff, a rotational pass rusher who's legitimately bad against the run. Or Chase Young, whom I'm seriously terrified is someone Kwesi will aggressively target. Or you overpay Hunter to stay and watch him regress either sooner or later.

And you don't have high Round Picks to go out and get cheap pass rushers. Not to mention CB or IDL. Or LG. Or WR3. Or ILB2. The Center isn't very good and now gets hurt annually. RB needs an upgrade.

So many holes. A nice, fat Draft staring Minnesota in the face. But no 3rd Round Pick. Trade back a bit, get another pick. Get multiple Starters. And some extra ammo for next year's Draft.

Or take McCarthy at #11 (or higher) and sit him for a year. He's absolutely not going to be ready in '24. Add maybe 1 more Starter and tie yourself to a bunch of high priced, likely overpaid Free Agents on long contracts with big guarantees.

Neither approach is ideal. That's the price to be paid for all the Spielman and Adofo-Mensah missed picks.