I wanna bite some kneecaps.

comet52
Hall of Fame Candidate

Posts: 7,032
Likes: 8,631

I wanna bite some kneecaps. Dec 7, 2023 3:08:34 GMT -6 via mobile

Quote

Post by comet52 on Dec 7, 2023 3:08:34 GMT -6

Dec 6, 2023 20:47:35 GMT -6 Oracle Bone Diviner said:

Dec 6, 2023 20:16:10 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Is it not implied that's who he feels gives the team the best chance to win? And as long as we're in the hunt, Dobbs will be the guy. Does he need to spell that out weekly? Of course things can change, but as of right now today, he's absolutely intending on Dobbs finishing the season.

I know you're stuck on this, but Hall was always the last resort. That much has been obvious to anyone paying attention. Hall will see the field if Dobbs and Mullens are both injured or possibly if we're mathematically eliminated. He's QB3 and has been all season other than when QB1 and QB2 were both injured. The second there were other options, back to QB3. It's all there, plain as day.

But we don't need to make this thread about that. There are several others. My point was that a lot is riding on these last five games. If we're expected to believe KO can develop a QBOTF next season, let's see what he can do with an athletic QB with NFL experience, who is literally a rocket scientist. With what B-Flo is doing on the other side, there are no excuses, especially with JJ back. Just win, baby.

He literally said their whole mentality is about 60 minutes Sunday, when directly asked whether he was committed to Dobbs the rest of the way.

There's no implication or spin to be had in that. He isn't looking past Sunday. Anyway I didn't ask to argue about Hall, I merely asked if you had a link showing what you said. He didn't say that, and he didn't imply that. The end, until next week.

Come now my friends, there is no need to argue about this when we can look forward to watching the excitement of the Disastronaut turning it over several times this Sunday. Skol!

Last Edit: Dec 7, 2023 3:09:15 GMT -6 by comet52

I'm here for entertainment purposes only

slapnut19
Hall of Fame Nominee

Posts: 9,415
Likes: 3,016
Member is Online

I wanna bite some kneecaps. Dec 7, 2023 5:41:38 GMT -6 via mobile Danchat likes this

Quote

Post by slapnut19 on Dec 7, 2023 5:41:38 GMT -6

Dec 6, 2023 20:16:10 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Dec 6, 2023 19:51:42 GMT -6 Oracle Bone Diviner said:

Linky? I listened to 10 minutes of incredibly boring questions from sports "journalists" and didn't hear him say that. I only heard him say Josh starts against the Raiders, and when asked if he was committed to Josh the rest of the way came back with "our whole mentality coming out of this bye is about 60 minutes on Sunday..."

Is it not implied that's who he feels gives the team the best chance to win? And as long as we're in the hunt, Dobbs will be the guy. Does he need to spell that out weekly? Of course things can change, but as of right now today, he's absolutely intending on Dobbs finishing the season.

I know you're stuck on this, but Hall was always the last resort. That much has been obvious to anyone paying attention. Hall will see the field if Dobbs and Mullens are both injured or possibly if we're mathematically eliminated. He's QB3 and has been all season other than when QB1 and QB2 were both injured. The second there were other options, back to QB3. It's all there, plain as day.

But we don't need to make this thread about that. There are several others. My point was that a lot is riding on these last five games. If we're expected to believe KO can develop a QBOTF next season, let's see what he can do with an athletic QB with NFL experience, who is literally a rocket scientist. With what B-Flo is doing on the other side, there are no excuses, especially with JJ back. Just win, baby.

jmo but I don't think KOCs ability to develop a qb should be judged by what he does with a backup that was acquired mid season. Can't we agree that Kirk has taken major strides under this coaching staff? That tells me he knows what he's doing with QBs. Ultimately he will be judged by what he does when we finally draft our QBOTF

Funkytown
Owner

Purple Pain Big Dog

Posts: 67,552

Likes: 31,479
Fan Since: 1998
Member is Online

I wanna bite some kneecaps. Dec 10, 2023 14:22:46 GMT -6

Quote

Post by Funkytown on Dec 10, 2023 14:22:46 GMT -6

Dec 7, 2023 5:41:38 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

jmo but I don't think KOCs ability to develop a qb should be judged by what he does with a backup that was acquired mid season. Can't we agree that Kirk has taken major strides under this coaching staff? That tells me he knows what he's doing with QBs. Ultimately he will be judged by what he does when we finally draft our QBOTF

What major strides were those? 95% of this board couldn't wait to move on from Kirk, even pre-injury. "Major" strides might be a stretch. Cousins has always been a good quarterback; people just don't like the contract, physical limitations, etc.

It wasn't that long ago that people were crowning KO and Dobbs - and incredibly excited for life after Kirk. Well, and now, here we are. I'm absolutely against starting a rookie next season, but some are open to it. Well, if that's the case, why shouldn't we judge KO on what he can/can't do with a mobile, rocket scientist QB with NFL experience acquired midseason?

From Purple Insider Mailbag:

Thomas… Do you think KOC sought input from team leaders in making the QB decision to ride with Dobbs?

That wasn’t mentioned but I don’t think that would be needed in this case. O’Connell should make the call himself. He’s the one doing the big study during the bye week, he’s the one communicating in the headset and he’s a former QB. Sometimes it’s better to have less “collaboration.” When Zimmer asked the team leaders for their opinion in 2017 that was a very unique situation because Teddy was coming back and Case was riding high. There were probably some people inside the room that did want to see Teddy come back mid-season because they knew that Case was on a burner that wouldn’t last. That’s not what we are looking at here. It’s backup QB vs. backup QB vs. rookie QB. Pick one and roll with him.

Jeff…. With a bye week to regroup offensively, do you see the game plan changing at all? It has seemed as though KOC is expecting Dobbs to make the second and third level throws Kirk did, but that doesn’t seem to be aligned with what Dobbs is best capable of doing. Do we see more quick passes and more rollouts/bootlegs by Dobbs this week?

Yes, I definitely do. Something I noticed in the numbers even before the Bears game was that Dobbs’ intermediate passing was not good in Arizona or Minnesota. He’s 13-for-27 when throwing it between 10-20 yards with three picks and with the Cards he was 32-for-60 with six turnover-worthy plays. With both teams he had terrible intermediate passing grades. Kirk, on the other hand, is an intermediate passing legend (91 PFF grade, 125.2 QB rating this year). With Dobbs it should be quick game or looking at throwing way down the field where there’s more margin for error.

It’s really hard to adjust an offense on the fly to a completely different style of quarterback. If they are able to pull it off and create something that works for Dobbs but still gets the ball to Justin Jefferson enough to be dangerous it will be very impressive.

Link:

purpleinsider.substack.com/p/friday-mailbag-dobbs-decision-andjake

KO has a guy in Mullens who has been with him from the start. He's sticking with what Dobbs has to offer. That's his choice. If he's able to adapt more to Dobbs' skillset and create an efficient offense leading us to the playoffs, that bodes well. If he can't, I'm sorry, but it's a red flag, especially for those who would be okay with starting a rookie QB.

Dobbs has more intelligence, physical skills, and experience than any rookie QB would have. So, quite simply, do it with Dobbs, and maybe I can buy in ... like several here already did after 4 quarters of decent football from Dobbs (across two games). KO was handed a pretty darn good quarterback in Kirk Cousins - a luxury most new coaches don't have; let's see what he can do with Dobbs for the rest of the season... That'll tell us a lot.

Last Edit: Dec 10, 2023 14:26:53 GMT -6 by Funkytown

oldman Veteran Dont have any expectations and you will not be disappointed. Posts: 1,368 Likes: 554	I wanna bite some kneecaps. Dec 10, 2023 14:34:11 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by oldman on Dec 10, 2023 14:34:11 GMT -6 Hope the bears win today.

slapnut19
Hall of Fame Nominee

Posts: 9,415
Likes: 3,016
Member is Online

I wanna bite some kneecaps. Dec 11, 2023 8:42:02 GMT -6 via mobile vikingpwr likes this

Quote

Post by slapnut19 on Dec 11, 2023 8:42:02 GMT -6

Dec 10, 2023 14:22:46 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Dec 7, 2023 5:41:38 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

jmo but I don't think KOCs ability to develop a qb should be judged by what he does with a backup that was acquired mid season. Can't we agree that Kirk has taken major strides under this coaching staff? That tells me he knows what he's doing with QBs. Ultimately he will be judged by what he does when we finally draft our QBOTF

What major strides were those? 95% of this board couldn't wait to move on from Kirk, even pre-injury. "Major" strides might be a stretch. Cousins has always been a good quarterback; people just don't like the contract, physical limitations, etc.

It wasn't that long ago that people were crowning KO and Dobbs - and incredibly excited for life after Kirk. Well, and now, here we are. I'm absolutely against starting a rookie next season, but some are open to it. Well, if that's the case, why shouldn't we judge KO on what he can/can't do with a mobile, rocket scientist QB with NFL experience acquired midseason?

From Purple Insider Mailbag:

Thomas… Do you think KOC sought input from team leaders in making the QB decision to ride with Dobbs?

That wasn’t mentioned but I don’t think that would be needed in this case. O’Connell should make the call himself. He’s the one doing the big study during the bye week, he’s the one communicating in the headset and he’s a former QB. Sometimes it’s better to have less “collaboration.” When Zimmer asked the team leaders for their opinion in 2017 that was a very unique situation because Teddy was coming back and Case was riding high. There were probably some people inside the room that did want to see Teddy come back mid-season because they knew that Case was on a burner that wouldn’t last. That’s not what we are looking at here. It’s backup QB vs. backup QB vs. rookie QB. Pick one and roll with him.

Jeff…. With a bye week to regroup offensively, do you see the game plan changing at all? It has seemed as though KOC is expecting Dobbs to make the second and third level throws Kirk did, but that doesn’t seem to be aligned with what Dobbs is best capable of doing. Do we see more quick passes and more rollouts/bootlegs by Dobbs this week?

Yes, I definitely do. Something I noticed in the numbers even before the Bears game was that Dobbs’ intermediate passing was not good in Arizona or Minnesota. He’s 13-for-27 when throwing it between 10-20 yards with three picks and with the Cards he was 32-for-60 with six turnover-worthy plays. With both teams he had terrible intermediate passing grades. Kirk, on the other hand, is an intermediate passing legend (91 PFF grade, 125.2 QB rating this year). With Dobbs it should be quick game or looking at throwing way down the field where there’s more margin for error.

It’s really hard to adjust an offense on the fly to a completely different style of quarterback. If they are able to pull it off and create something that works for Dobbs but still gets the ball to Justin Jefferson enough to be dangerous it will be very impressive.

Link:

purpleinsider.substack.com/p/friday-mailbag-dobbs-decision-andjake

KO has a guy in Mullens who has been with him from the start. He's sticking with what Dobbs has to offer. That's his choice. If he's able to adapt more to Dobbs' skillset and create an efficient offense leading us to the playoffs, that bodes well. If he can't, I'm sorry, but it's a red flag, especially for those who would be okay with starting a rookie QB.

Dobbs has more intelligence, physical skills, and experience than any rookie QB would have. So, quite simply, do it with Dobbs, and maybe I can buy in ... like several here already did after 4 quarters of decent football from Dobbs (across two games). KO was handed a pretty darn good quarterback in Kirk Cousins - a luxury most new coaches don't have; let's see what he can do with Dobbs for the rest of the season... That'll tell us a lot.

do you honestly think the Kirk we saw in 2022 and 23 was the same QB we saw in 2018-2021? I'm not the biggest Kirk fan but even I can see the difference in him since KOC took over and that credit should go to the coach as well as Kirk

Honestly it sounds like you have an agenda and are trying to clap back at people who dared to say anything negative about Kirk and now that Dobbs is struggling you have your chance. Were fans not supposed to be excited about how he performed vs Atlanta and New Orleans? Shame on anyone for enjoying the team after Kirk went down. I guess it's low hanging fruit with that perspective to rip on KOC because he can't mold Dobbs into a good qb mid season and change the entire offense to suit him. I actually think the opposite. He's done a pretty damn good job squeezing what he could out of him and keeping us in the playoff race when most teams would have folded up after losing their QB

Last Edit: Dec 11, 2023 8:48:55 GMT -6 by slapnut19

FSUVike
Franchise Player

Posts: 3,195
Likes: 4,939
Member is Online

I wanna bite some kneecaps. Dec 11, 2023 10:29:46 GMT -6 via mobile Funkytown, Breeze, and 1 more like this

Quote

Post by FSUVike on Dec 11, 2023 10:29:46 GMT -6

Dec 11, 2023 8:42:02 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

Dec 10, 2023 14:22:46 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

What major strides were those? 95% of this board couldn't wait to move on from Kirk, even pre-injury. "Major" strides might be a stretch. Cousins has always been a good quarterback; people just don't like the contract, physical limitations, etc.

It wasn't that long ago that people were crowning KO and Dobbs - and incredibly excited for life after Kirk. Well, and now, here we are. I'm absolutely against starting a rookie next season, but some are open to it. Well, if that's the case, why shouldn't we judge KO on what he can/can't do with a mobile, rocket scientist QB with NFL experience acquired midseason?

From Purple Insider Mailbag:

Link:

purpleinsider.substack.com/p/friday-mailbag-dobbs-decision-andjake

KO has a guy in Mullens who has been with him from the start. He's sticking with what Dobbs has to offer. That's his choice. If he's able to adapt more to Dobbs' skillset and create an efficient offense leading us to the playoffs, that bodes well. If he can't, I'm sorry, but it's a red flag, especially for those who would be okay with starting a rookie QB.

Dobbs has more intelligence, physical skills, and experience than any rookie QB would have. So, quite simply, do it with Dobbs, and maybe I can buy in ... like several here already did after 4 quarters of decent football from Dobbs (across two games). KO was handed a pretty darn good quarterback in Kirk Cousins - a luxury most new coaches don't have; let's see what he can do with Dobbs for the rest of the season... That'll tell us a lot.

do you honestly think the Kirk we saw in 2022 and 23 was the same QB we saw in 2018-2021? I'm not the biggest Kirk fan but even I can see the difference in him since KOC took over and that credit should go to the coach as well as Kirk

Honestly it sounds like you have an agenda and are trying to clap back at people who dared to say anything negative about Kirk and now that Dobbs is struggling you have your chance. Were fans not supposed to be excited about how he performed vs Atlanta and New Orleans? Shame on anyone for enjoying the team after Kirk went down. I guess it's low hanging fruit with that perspective to rip on KOC because he can't mold Dobbs into a good qb mid season and change the entire offense to suit him. I actually think the opposite. He's done a pretty damn good job squeezing what he could out of him and keeping us in the playoff race when most teams would have folded up after losing their QB

Honestly, you're the one with the blinders on.

KOC didn't even remotely try to mold his Offense to Dobbs. For all that talk during the bye week he did the opposite yesterday because he lacks commitment. There were a few plays designed for Dobbs legs but it was mostly the same crap we saw in Denver and against the Bears: 5 and 7 step drops, pray the Line holds up, expect your QB who's only been here part of the season to make fast reads.

Meanwhile, he's got exactly the QB2 he wants for his system sitting on the bench because he wants to play with his shiny new toy. Mullens knows the intricacies of the Playbook. He's just not a threat to run. Something O'Connell seems to value in Dobbs but then inexplicably refuses to take advantage of.

And this is just as it relates to Dobbs vs. Mullens. The conservative Playcalling when he has a lead late. Playing for FGs instead of TDs. Terrible Redzone production, which was also happening when Kirk was the QB. Awful decisions to go for it on his side of the 50 and put the Defense in a bad spot. Terrible TOP and tons of 3 and Outs. Dumb challenges.

This Offense is loaded with 1st and 2nd Round Picks. The Defensive Starters don't have one in the Top 100. One is 6th and one is 20th. Meanwhile, Teams with less resources on Offense with QB2s seem to somehow be putting up more points consistently than Kevin O'Connell's Offense.

The Indianapolis Colts have been on QB2 most of the year and sit in the Top 10 in scoring. The Browns are 12th. With DTR and the corpse of Joe Flacco. And the Vikings sit 20th. Yeah, let's all band together and defend such an awesome coaching job.

Breeze
Pro Bowl

Imaginal Cell

Posts: 2,160

Likes: 1,813

I wanna bite some kneecaps. Dec 11, 2023 10:34:05 GMT -6

Quote

Post by Breeze on Dec 11, 2023 10:34:05 GMT -6

Nov 28, 2023 9:08:31 GMT -6 jj said:

I want to preface this post by saying that I really like KOC the man, and I know he puts everything he has into this team.

This season has made me pine for a coach like Dan Campbell. I’m not claiming he’s a perfect coach, or even a top-5 coach, but the mentality is just *chef’s kiss*

He set the stage at that introductory press conference that we all laughed at. He wanted his team to be savage, and he made no bones (see what I did there) about it. But man, his team is tough; they battle. They have the killer instinct. They’ve lost some embarrassing games, but you can see the energy, mentality and demeanor of Campbell being adopted by his players. KOC has the demeanor of a couple’s therapist.

Wish I had looked at this thread sooner. That is so spot on, IMO.

ETA: I have a slightly scarred knee-cap to contribute to the cause...

Last Edit: Dec 11, 2023 10:36:33 GMT -6 by Breeze

FSUVike
Franchise Player

Posts: 3,195
Likes: 4,939
Member is Online

I wanna bite some kneecaps. Dec 11, 2023 10:56:08 GMT -6 via mobile andhesloose28 and ratsalad like this

Quote

Post by FSUVike on Dec 11, 2023 10:56:08 GMT -6

Back to the OT, Campbell isn't going to last long the way he keeps gambling. At least 1 instance of going for it on 4th and Long deep in his own territory and it wasn't the end of the game. And other really questionable calls.

And there is a ton of Talent on the Lions Defense. There D-Line unquestionably should be better just by looking at the individual production. But it doesn't add up as whole for some reason.

High picks and signings and they still suck. I suspect the OC is the best Coach on their Team.

The Lions are like the Mirror Universe of the Vikings. Gruff HC instead of Nice Guy HC, but they both make a lot of bad decisions. Defense is loaded with talent and underperforms vs. Minnesota's talent-laden Offense that can't get out of its own way. A Coordinator that would probably be better than the HC in the same role.

These upcoming games against each other are going to look like the Spider-Man memes where's there's two of them pointing at each other.

Last Edit: Dec 11, 2023 10:57:40 GMT -6 by FSUVike

Danchat
Content Creator

Posts: 19,014

Likes: 16,581

I wanna bite some kneecaps. Dec 11, 2023 16:59:05 GMT -6

Quote

Post by Danchat on Dec 11, 2023 16:59:05 GMT -6

Dec 11, 2023 10:56:08 GMT -6 FSUVike said:

And there is a ton of Talent on the Lions Defense. There D-Line unquestionably should be better just by looking at the individual production. But it doesn't add up as whole for some reason.

I think part of it is that DT Alim McNeill got hurt, who was having a huge year and the depth behind him is really bad. Offenses have figured out they can run on them - first 6 weeks they were only allowing 75 rushing yards a game, since then its up to 125+. 28.7 points per game allowed in that stretch! That's a Donashell-level defense. I'm interested to do their depth chart as I don't think it's as loaded as you believe. Though that might be more due to underachievement than anything.

FSUVike
Franchise Player

Posts: 3,195
Likes: 4,939
Member is Online

I wanna bite some kneecaps. Dec 11, 2023 17:02:30 GMT -6 via mobile

Quote

Post by FSUVike on Dec 11, 2023 17:02:30 GMT -6

Dec 11, 2023 16:59:05 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Dec 11, 2023 10:56:08 GMT -6 FSUVike said:

And there is a ton of Talent on the Lions Defense. There D-Line unquestionably should be better just by looking at the individual production. But it doesn't add up as whole for some reason.

I think part of it is that DT Alim McNeill got hurt, who was having a huge year and the depth behind him is really bad. Offenses have figured out they can run on them - first 6 weeks they were only allowing 75 rushing yards a game, since then its up to 125+. 28.7 points per game allowed in that stretch! That's a Donashell-level defense. I'm interested to do their depth chart as I don't think it's as loaded as you believe. Though that might be more due to underachievement than anything.

Wow, big drop off without Alim, whom I loved coming out of college. Houston being out also hurts. But it didn't seem like they were playing that well when they were healthy.

andhesloose28
Franchise Player

Posts: 3,033
Likes: 2,152

I wanna bite some kneecaps. Jan 29, 2024 7:19:42 GMT -6

Quote

Post by andhesloose28 on Jan 29, 2024 7:19:42 GMT -6

You guys still wanna bite some knee caps!! I knew Danny boy would lose them a big game at some point. Now hes going to lose Ben Johnson and pay Goff huge money. Goodluck to them, the stars dont always align every year for you nothing is guaranteed the next year as we know.

mngopher35
Veteran

Posts: 1,227
Likes: 1,130

I wanna bite some kneecaps. Jan 29, 2024 8:36:28 GMT -6 Funkytown, Danchat, and 1 more like this

Quote

Post by mngopher35 on Jan 29, 2024 8:36:28 GMT -6

Jan 29, 2024 7:19:42 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

You guys still wanna bite some knee caps!! I knew Danny boy would lose them a big game at some point. Now hes going to lose Ben Johnson and pay Goff huge money. Goodluck to them, the stars dont always align every year for you nothing is guaranteed the next year as we know.

They stuck to what got them there, I don't think it's a huge knock on Campbell that it eventually didn't go their way (it happens no matter if you take risks or not). If Gibbs doesn't fumble the ball or Reynolds can catch a pass the outcome possibly still ends up in their favor.

I think taking the Detroit Lions to 2 playoff wins and the NFC championship game is a big accomplishment for that regime overall though. I don't know about biting some knee caps but we haven't had a season with 2 playoff wins since before I was born lol. They had a very successful run with Campbell being aggressive throughout, the results not working once doesn't change the full picture imo.

I just hope people realize when some talk about rebuilding a team the right way the threat of "we will become the Lions" is no longer scary at all...

comet52 Hall of Fame Candidate Posts: 7,032 Likes: 8,631	I wanna bite some kneecaps. Jan 29, 2024 9:32:52 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by comet52 on Jan 29, 2024 9:32:52 GMT -6 Yesterday might have been the high-water mark for Man Campbell. Loses Johnson, and he'll keep making situationally questionable decisions that cost him games. He might become this year's version of Nick Siriani.
	I'm here for entertainment purposes only

PurpleFloyd
Jersey Retired

Posts: 4,366
Likes: 2,094

I wanna bite some kneecaps. Jan 29, 2024 9:54:38 GMT -6 via mobile

Quote

Post by PurpleFloyd on Jan 29, 2024 9:54:38 GMT -6

Jan 29, 2024 7:19:42 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

You guys still wanna bite some knee caps!! I knew Danny boy would lose them a big game at some point. Now hes going to lose Ben Johnson and pay Goff huge money. Goodluck to them, the stars dont always align every year for you nothing is guaranteed the next year as we know.

Nah, they should be able to run it back next year just like it was expected from the Vikings in 2018. Changing coaches and roster changes have no impact.

Danchat
Content Creator

Posts: 19,014

Likes: 16,581

I wanna bite some kneecaps. Jan 29, 2024 11:20:30 GMT -6 FSUVike likes this

Quote

Post by Danchat on Jan 29, 2024 11:20:30 GMT -6

Jan 29, 2024 9:32:52 GMT -6 comet52 said:

Yesterday might have been the high-water mark for Man Campbell. Loses Johnson, and he'll keep making situationally questionable decisions that cost him games. He might become this year's version of Nick Siriani.

Offensively yes they likely will not be this good next year, but defensively they'll keep their DC and they have a bunch of young talent that should continue to get better. Unlike the Eagles who lost 5 defensive starters in free agency, the Lions only have 2 guys set to hit the market and one of those guys is a replacement level CB, and the other is a safety who missed 80% of the season and they managed without him.

2025 appears to be when things will get extra expensive for them as extensions for Goff and others will kick in. They have to nail their OC replacement if they want to get this far again in 2024.

Last Edit: Jan 29, 2024 11:20:50 GMT -6 by Danchat