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pinfante79
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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 16:58:45 GMT -6 via Tapatalk Josey Wales and vikadam like this

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Post by pinfante79 on Oct 30, 2023 16:58:45 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 16:56:09 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

Oct 30, 2023 16:41:00 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Bottom line. I'm 44. Iv watched the Vikings for 38 years. Kirk Cousins was the best QB we have had for any extended period of time. Period. Finding a better one will be tough because we haven't in 38 years that's iv watched this team.

I think there were others who had better individual seasons here but I actually agree in terms of his sustained level of play for a 6 year period. Culpepper is probably the only one we even kept starting for 5 seasons other than him.

That doesn’t mean the team doesn’t have any hope anymore compared to with Kirk though which was what you said. Kirk also cost this team far more $ than any other qb has which limits what can be spent on the rest of the roster. When you factor in that cost compared to the production it just wasn’t worth it. That’s why this team has had more success outside of Kirk time here despite what you saying being true. We need to get better at asset evaluation/management if we want to build a long term contender.

So while Kirk has been an above average qb which is rare for us, that doesn’t mean he was worth the price tag in the end. The offense wasn’t truly elevated from where it had been before him. Moving on from him doesn’t mean we go from having hope to not having it. The Kirk excitement failed in the end and whether or not we get a better qb right away the franchise as a whole can have a brighter outlook long term without him.

Past 2 years he was probably under paid. We live in a world where Daniel Jones gets 160mil dollar contracts. And quite honestly over paying for a QB is the tax you pay for NOT DRAFTING A FRANCHISE QB IN OVER 50 YEARS.

Up until he took a bad step yesterday not many QBs were playing at a higher level at the moment.... But water under the bridge now back to QB hell ....

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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 17:14:56 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by mngopher35 on Oct 30, 2023 17:14:56 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 16:58:45 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Oct 30, 2023 16:56:09 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

I think there were others who had better individual seasons here but I actually agree in terms of his sustained level of play for a 6 year period. Culpepper is probably the only one we even kept starting for 5 seasons other than him.

That doesn’t mean the team doesn’t have any hope anymore compared to with Kirk though which was what you said. Kirk also cost this team far more $ than any other qb has which limits what can be spent on the rest of the roster. When you factor in that cost compared to the production it just wasn’t worth it. That’s why this team has had more success outside of Kirk time here despite what you saying being true. We need to get better at asset evaluation/management if we want to build a long term contender.

So while Kirk has been an above average qb which is rare for us, that doesn’t mean he was worth the price tag in the end. The offense wasn’t truly elevated from where it had been before him. Moving on from him doesn’t mean we go from having hope to not having it. The Kirk excitement failed in the end and whether or not we get a better qb right away the franchise as a whole can have a brighter outlook long term without him.

Past 2 years he was probably under paid. We live in a world where Daniel Jones gets 160mil dollar contracts. And quite honestly over paying for a QB is the tax you pay for NOT DRAFTING A FRANCHISE QB IN OVER 50 YEARS.

Up until he took a bad step yesterday not many QBs were playing at a higher level at the moment.... But water under the bridge now back to QB hell ....

Ya I can agree on last year, I have said before that’s the first time I think he lived up to his contract. I thought he played poor earlier this season but the last two games he looked really good. Unfortunately we needed last years Kirk in 18/19 when we still had elite talent around on both sides of the ball. While I wasn’t a believer I at least understand making a push like that when you have a team that’s seemingly close. After it fails you don’t keep paying up though as the roster clearly deteriorates but that’s not Cousins fault it’s on management/ownership.

I wish we would invest more draft capital into the position, we have never even taken one top 10 in my lifetime. Maybe this will be the year that changes, who knows. We needed to start over either way and reset our situation. Even without the injury it was time to move on from him.

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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 18:33:48 GMT -6 via mobile pinfante79 and Josey Wales like this

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Post by Funkytown on Oct 30, 2023 18:33:48 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 16:58:45 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Oct 30, 2023 16:56:09 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

I think there were others who had better individual seasons here but I actually agree in terms of his sustained level of play for a 6 year period. Culpepper is probably the only one we even kept starting for 5 seasons other than him.

That doesn’t mean the team doesn’t have any hope anymore compared to with Kirk though which was what you said. Kirk also cost this team far more $ than any other qb has which limits what can be spent on the rest of the roster. When you factor in that cost compared to the production it just wasn’t worth it. That’s why this team has had more success outside of Kirk time here despite what you saying being true. We need to get better at asset evaluation/management if we want to build a long term contender.

So while Kirk has been an above average qb which is rare for us, that doesn’t mean he was worth the price tag in the end. The offense wasn’t truly elevated from where it had been before him. Moving on from him doesn’t mean we go from having hope to not having it. The Kirk excitement failed in the end and whether or not we get a better qb right away the franchise as a whole can have a brighter outlook long term without him.

Past 2 years he was probably under paid. We live in a world where Daniel Jones gets 160mil dollar contracts. And quite honestly over paying for a QB is the tax you pay for NOT DRAFTING A FRANCHISE QB IN OVER 50 YEARS.

Up until he took a bad step yesterday not many QBs were playing at a higher level at the moment.... But water under the bridge now back to QB hell ....

Crazy it took an injury for Kirk to finally get the respect he deserved.

Kirk Cousins tore his Achilles yesterday & took it like a G. @kirkcousins8 attempted to scramble after the injury, hopped to the sideline, & cheered his team from the cart. It was a Kobe Bryant like moment. Reminiscent of the legend hitting two free throws after suffering the same injury.

That was legendary. Unfortunately, much like the @lakers the @vikings will have a tough time replacing their leader. What Kirk has become for this team goes above X’s & O’s. He was playing at a super star level even without Justin Jefferson, showing uncommon toughness, & leading a locker room of men back from an 0-3 start. All respect to Cousins, he’d become “Everything” for the Vikings.

pinfante79 Jersey Retired Posts: 4,276 Likes: 1,734 Fan Since: Mid 80's	Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 20:26:18 GMT -6 via Tapatalk Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by pinfante79 on Oct 30, 2023 20:26:18 GMT -6 http://instagram.com/p/CzAjDw5r_Gn
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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 20:33:57 GMT -6

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Post by VFL on Oct 30, 2023 20:33:57 GMT -6

Oct 29, 2023 17:19:44 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Oct 29, 2023 17:14:56 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

As far as returning to qb hell, keep in mind we were division champs in two of the three years before we signed Kirk

And if we had Kirk on those teams we'd probably have a super bowl.... Ya know that was a thing this franchise actually did...

Based on what history? Real easy to make a claim without any proof or reason. If someone had been the QB last year you probably would say the same thing about the '22 team winning the SB with KC.

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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 20:36:10 GMT -6

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Post by VFL on Oct 30, 2023 20:36:10 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 6:59:51 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Oct 29, 2023 22:07:21 GMT -6 ratsalad said:

Implying we weren't already in QB hell with Cousins. It only took his robot ass 6 years, 1 elite WR, a second up and coming elite receiver, a top 10 TE, and a top 10 OL before he started to look like he MIGHT get his sh*t together. Cal me crazy, but I won't miss him. He was overpaid, overhyped, and frankly was never going to take us to the promised land. So yeah, if that was his last game as a Viking, I'm fine with that.

Maybe it just took that long for YOU to see it...

It was always quite obvious to me that you have to protect a pocket passer...

There was never any congruency between the quarterback and the offensive line I've stated this in another thread but if we bring in another quarterback that is a pocket passer it's going to be just as important to keep this line together. If you bring in a more mobile quarterback you could spend less on the offensive line like they did with Russell Wilson in Seattle for years.

You didn't need Jefferson as bad as you needed the offensive line for Kirk Cousins. Kirk Cousins could go to war with a handful of average receivers if his line is good enough. Like he did in Washington. The offensive line in Washington was fairly solid.

Yes, KC and that great Skins OL produced how many Super Bowls? How many playoff wins?

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pinfante79
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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 20:38:01 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by pinfante79 on Oct 30, 2023 20:38:01 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 20:36:10 GMT -6 VFL said:

Oct 30, 2023 6:59:51 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Maybe it just took that long for YOU to see it...

It was always quite obvious to me that you have to protect a pocket passer...

There was never any congruency between the quarterback and the offensive line I've stated this in another thread but if we bring in another quarterback that is a pocket passer it's going to be just as important to keep this line together. If you bring in a more mobile quarterback you could spend less on the offensive line like they did with Russell Wilson in Seattle for years.

You didn't need Jefferson as bad as you needed the offensive line for Kirk Cousins. Kirk Cousins could go to war with a handful of average receivers if his line is good enough. Like he did in Washington. The offensive line in Washington was fairly solid.

Yes, KC and that great Skins OL produced how many Super Bowls? How many playoff wins?

There's no need to have a Cousins derangement syndrome flare up now...

I don't even know what your referencing it was a lot of post I think your referencing the fact that I said that he was good on Washington without pro Bowl wide receivers because he had a good o line yes that's true I stand by that.

Everything's been said I think we all have to move on...

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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 20:40:31 GMT -6

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Post by VFL on Oct 30, 2023 20:40:31 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 10:09:25 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Oct 30, 2023 9:55:43 GMT -6 ratsalad said:

Don't quote meaningless stats to me when the only ones that matter look bad

Yeah, okay. 42 out of the last 43 1st round draft picks since 2010 have never won a Super Bowl. Great track record for picking in the first round, right?

Well now you have the rest of the season, and the off-season, to speculate who will sign Kirk and become your favorite team moving forward.

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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 20:55:29 GMT -6

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Post by VFL on Oct 30, 2023 20:55:29 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 20:38:01 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Oct 30, 2023 20:36:10 GMT -6 VFL said:

Yes, KC and that great Skins OL produced how many Super Bowls? How many playoff wins?

There's no need to have a Cousins derangement syndrome flare up now...

I don't even know what your referencing it was a lot of post I think your referencing the fact that I said that he was good on Washington without pro Bowl wide receivers because he had a good o line yes that's true I stand by that.

Everything's been said I think we all have to move on...

You're hilarious! No need to make a personal accusation. You clearly stated that with a good Skins line and average receivers "look what he did". I merely looked at what he did and it wasn't much in terms of winning overall much less post season success.

For the money Kirk has made he has produced very little in terms of "success". He was brought in to do one thing and he has failed miserably at that goal. Look, I like the guy fine as a person, but as a starting NFL QB he has failed to produce TEAM success.

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pinfante79
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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 20:56:58 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by pinfante79 on Oct 30, 2023 20:56:58 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 20:55:29 GMT -6 VFL said:

Oct 30, 2023 20:38:01 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

There's no need to have a Cousins derangement syndrome flare up now...

I don't even know what your referencing it was a lot of post I think your referencing the fact that I said that he was good on Washington without pro Bowl wide receivers because he had a good o line yes that's true I stand by that.

Everything's been said I think we all have to move on...

You're hilarious! No need to make a personal accusation. You clearly stated that with a good Skins line and average receivers "look what he did". I merely looked at what he did and it wasn't much in terms of winning overall much less post season success.

For the money Kirk has made he has produced very little in terms of "success". He was brought in to do one thing and he has failed miserably at that goal. Look, I like the guy fine as a person, but as a starting NFL QB he has failed to produce TEAM success.

Like 99.9% of quarterbacks who have ever played the game... If you think a quarterback is just going to walk in here and win you a Super Bowl well then you probably have one of the 10 greatest of all time. If that's your standard save your Sundays go find something better to do... The odds of us landing one of the top couple quarterbacks of all time that single-handedly going to win us a Super Bowl is slim to none and I'll take my chances on just being able to produce more joy without the NFL on Sunday if that was the case. Sounds like a miserable standard 'I won't be happy till we have a quarterback who will single-handedly win us the Super Bowl' - f*ck that. If I thought that was the case I give up and go find something better to do.

When I said look what he did in Washington I mean he went from being a fourth round pick to a pro bowl caliber QB.

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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 20:59:22 GMT -6 via mobile TAFKASP and pinfante79 like this

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Post by Funkytown on Oct 30, 2023 20:59:22 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 20:40:31 GMT -6 VFL said:

Oct 30, 2023 10:09:25 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Yeah, okay. 42 out of the last 43 1st round draft picks since 2010 have never won a Super Bowl. Great track record for picking in the first round, right?

Well now you have the rest of the season, and the off-season, to speculate who will sign Kirk and become your favorite team moving forward.

Because Raptorman bothers to defend the best/most consistent Vikings quarterback since his childhood (PS - He's not young!), he's gonna suddenly jump ship? Come on now. Be real.

pinfante79
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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 21:02:42 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by pinfante79 on Oct 30, 2023 21:02:42 GMT -6

42 of the last 43 first round quarterbacks have not produced the Super Bowl. Man that's wild.

Hell at that rate give me Tyrod Taylor next year at 8 million dollars a year and let's just spend the rest of the money on the defense at least you know what you're dealing with and you probably have enough skill players to make enough offense if he could hold teams under 24 points.

I am down for another retread I do not want to draft a quarterback in the first round. Unless it's 'the guy' in the right year. I.e. Caleb ...

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pinfante79 Jersey Retired Posts: 4,276 Likes: 1,734 Fan Since: Mid 80's	Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 21:06:44 GMT -6 via Tapatalk Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by pinfante79 on Oct 30, 2023 21:06:44 GMT -6 You HAVE to dRaFt A fIrSt RoUnD qB... 🤦‍♂️ 🤡Honk Honk🤡 Hell with that. Gimme another retread.
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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 21:16:04 GMT -6

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Post by VFL on Oct 30, 2023 21:16:04 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 20:56:58 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Oct 30, 2023 20:55:29 GMT -6 VFL said:

You're hilarious! No need to make a personal accusation. You clearly stated that with a good Skins line and average receivers "look what he did". I merely looked at what he did and it wasn't much in terms of winning overall much less post season success.

For the money Kirk has made he has produced very little in terms of "success". He was brought in to do one thing and he has failed miserably at that goal. Look, I like the guy fine as a person, but as a starting NFL QB he has failed to produce TEAM success.

Like 99.9% of quarterbacks who have ever played the game... If you think a quarterback is just going to walk in here and win you a Super Bowl well then you probably have one of the 10 greatest of all time. If that's your standard save your Sundays go find something better to do... The odds of us landing one of the top couple quarterbacks of all time that single-handedly going to win us a Super Bowl is slim to none and I'll take my chances on just being able to produce more joy without the NFL on Sunday if that was the case. Sounds like a miserable standard 'I won't be happy till we have a quarterback who will single-handedly win us the Super Bowl' - f*ck that. If I thought that was the case I give up and go find something better to do.

When I said look what he did in Washington I mean he went from being a fourth round pick to a pro bowl caliber QB.

Thank you for your interjection of now telling me what I need to do with my Sundays. I'll pass on your recommendations. Based on your "theory" of some "QB walking in here and winning a Super Bowl" then why sign a QB to that amount of money in the first place?

You said not one thing about him being a 4th Rd pick in your original post, but now you seem to be backtracking and adding some verbiage in an attempt to bolster your inadequate statement. Joe Montana and Russell Wilson were 3rd rounders, Brunell was a 5th, Brady a 6th rounder, Warner was undrafted just to name a few others that led their respective teams to the promise land.

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pinfante79
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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 21:19:41 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by pinfante79 on Oct 30, 2023 21:19:41 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 21:16:04 GMT -6 VFL said:

Oct 30, 2023 20:56:58 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Like 99.9% of quarterbacks who have ever played the game... If you think a quarterback is just going to walk in here and win you a Super Bowl well then you probably have one of the 10 greatest of all time. If that's your standard save your Sundays go find something better to do... The odds of us landing one of the top couple quarterbacks of all time that single-handedly going to win us a Super Bowl is slim to none and I'll take my chances on just being able to produce more joy without the NFL on Sunday if that was the case. Sounds like a miserable standard 'I won't be happy till we have a quarterback who will single-handedly win us the Super Bowl' - f*ck that. If I thought that was the case I give up and go find something better to do.

When I said look what he did in Washington I mean he went from being a fourth round pick to a pro bowl caliber QB.

Thank you for your interjection of now telling me what I need to do with my Sundays. I'll pass on your recommendations. Based on your "theory" of some "QB walking in here and winning a Super Bowl" then why sign a QB to that amount of money in the first place?

You said not one thing about him being a 4th Rd pick in your original post, but now you seem to be backtracking and adding some verbiage in an attempt to bolster your inadequate statement. Joe Montana and Russell Wilson were 3rd rounders, Brunell was a 5th, Brady a 6th rounder, Warner was undrafted just to name a few others that led their respective teams to the promise land.

Oh you thought I meant look what he did in Washington as he won a Super Bowl... So you think I meant the Redskins won the Super Bowl... Riiiiigggghhhhttt.

And I don't believe a Super Bowl is solely the responsibility of the quarterback.

But hey man you guys want to hate on the best quarterback that we've had in my 38 years of watching go right ahead you're probably much younger and you probably got a lot more quarterbacks to get through before you appreciate just having a good pro bowl caliber QB who makes getting points look rather easy. God it wasn't that long ago when we struggled to score 20 a game and it was painful to watch.

As for your second part I actually agree with you and that's part of the reason like I said above how trying to evaluate a quarterback is nearly impossible... And to tell you the truth it's probably from a risk reward standpoint more fruitful to draft a bunch of third fourth and fifth rounders since it's low risk compared to investing a first round or worse trading up for it when it's not the it QB and then ending up with Daniel Jones or JP Losman and then being forced to give him every chance in the world because what you gave up to get them or the value draft pick you spent on him.

I will say the thing about Russell Wilson and Dak Prescott is these guys were standout college performers that for different obviously unimportant reasons fell and I'd love to draft a guy like that. This way you owe him nothing and that's why I would roll with this rookie let's see what he has the rest of the year and ultimately we owe him nothing he has to produce right away cuz he's a fifth round pick and if he doesn't he's out the door and then let's go sign a retread and draft a third fourth or fifth round pick QB

Any QB you draft in round three or later you owe them nothing if you draft a quarterback in round one God forbid you trade up for him you give him every chance even when it's blatantly obvious that the guy is absolutely balls like Daniel Jones who then get signed on a second contract... That's the recipe to set your franchise back half a decade

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