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mngopher35
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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 15:54:49 GMT -6

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Post by mngopher35 on Oct 30, 2023 15:54:49 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 15:42:01 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Oct 30, 2023 15:40:54 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

Our oline was awful before Cousins got here too though. We still had more success before Cousins got here despite the oline being awful throughout that entire span. I am pointing out what actually happened lol, it isn't fake at all. The Minnesota Vikings made it further with Case Keenum in one season than they ever did with Cousins in his 5 full ones here. That's simply a reality. I am not saying Keenum is better than Cousins, I am just pointing out this franchise actually went further. That's why it doesn't make sense to pretend we are all of a sudden in major trouble, we were literally better off as a franchise the year before he got here anyways. It's the simple reality.

Last year people were still complaining about the oline lol, he was the most hit QB in the league. The reason he received praise is because he had a stretch of games where he actually made big plays in big moments. It was easily the best stretch of football I have seen him play his entire time here given his 4th qtr play. Unfortunately it didn't last but that's why he was getting the praise he was and the oline being bad was still brought up.

The 2017 o line was very solid and keenum was mobile. Mobile QB you don't need as good of an OL... See Russell Wilson in Seattle

Last years OL was good but had chunks of awful but more good than bad. Best tackle tandem in the league. Period. Obviously the injuries late in the year hurt.

Lol no it wasn't. The stats have been posted multiple times before but Keenum was getting pressured at a higher rate in 2017 than Cousins did after. The main olineman getting more than 50% of snaps were Reiff/Easton/Elflein/Remmers/Hill. Our oline was bad for a long time, it wasn't just all of a sudden once Cousins got here. I do agree that Keenum didn't need as good of an ol whether you call it mobile or not. Cousins has a really poor pocket presence while Keenum was able to escape and make more plays when pressured. That was a key aspect on why the offense has generally done worse on average since.

Even with the better olines our offense has not been matching the same ranking offensively though these last two seasons. In fact 2019 is Cousins best season here in terms of where the offense ranked in PPD. The main difference that season is that we relied on the running game more, Cousins had his least # of attempts that year.

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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 15:55:13 GMT -6 via mobile mngopher35 likes this

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Post by holzberg on Oct 30, 2023 15:55:13 GMT -6

I feel like the Vikings have been in QB Hell since 2016 when they traded for Bradford. Ever since then I feel like the Vikings have invested in the QB position so much that it has hindered the ability to keep great players and remain competitive. Oddly enough, those high paid QBs did less, or just as good as, what Case Keenum did for us lol.

PS. And nobody cared that the Vikes got rid of Case Keenum, but oh boy, can't get rid of Cousins who has won one playoff game for us :facepalm:

Last Edit: Oct 30, 2023 16:01:50 GMT -6 by holzberg

pinfante79
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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 15:59:03 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by pinfante79 on Oct 30, 2023 15:59:03 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 15:54:49 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

Oct 30, 2023 15:42:01 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

The 2017 o line was very solid and keenum was mobile. Mobile QB you don't need as good of an OL... See Russell Wilson in Seattle

Last years OL was good but had chunks of awful but more good than bad. Best tackle tandem in the league. Period. Obviously the injuries late in the year hurt.

Lol no it wasn't. The stats have been posted multiple times before but Keenum was getting pressured at a higher rate in 2017 than Cousins did after. The main olineman getting more than 50% of snaps were Reiff/Easton/Elflein/Remmers/Hill. Our oline was bad for a long time, it wasn't just all of a sudden once Cousins got here. I do agree that Keenum didn't need as good of an ol whether you call it mobile or not. Cousins has a really poor pocket presence while Keenum was able to escape and make more plays when pressured. That was a key aspect on why the offense has generally done worse on average since.

Even with the better olines our offense has not been matching the same ranking offensively though these last two seasons. In fact 2019 is Cousins best season here in terms of where the offense ranked in PPD. The main difference that season is that we relied on the running game more, Cousins had his least # of attempts that year.

Whatever man... Yeah your right Keenum wasn't a creator with his legs and better suited to avoid pressure... You got it bud... 🙄

Please don't follow me on Twitter @pi_Unmasked

pinfante79
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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 15:59:28 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by pinfante79 on Oct 30, 2023 15:59:28 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 15:55:13 GMT -6 holzberg said:

I feel like the Vikings have been in QB Hell since 2016 when they traded for Bradford. Ever since then I feel like the Vikings have invested in the QB position so much that it has hindered the ability to keep great players and remain competitive. Oddly enough, those high paid QBs did less then what Case Keenum did for us lol.

PS. And nobody cared that the Vikes got rid of Case Keenum, but oh boy, can't get rid of Cousins who has won one playoff game for us :facepalm:

I actually liked Bradford when healthy 🤷‍♂️

Please don't follow me on Twitter @pi_Unmasked

mngopher35
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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 16:05:38 GMT -6

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Post by mngopher35 on Oct 30, 2023 16:05:38 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 15:59:03 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Oct 30, 2023 15:54:49 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

Lol no it wasn't. The stats have been posted multiple times before but Keenum was getting pressured at a higher rate in 2017 than Cousins did after. The main olineman getting more than 50% of snaps were Reiff/Easton/Elflein/Remmers/Hill. Our oline was bad for a long time, it wasn't just all of a sudden once Cousins got here. I do agree that Keenum didn't need as good of an ol whether you call it mobile or not. Cousins has a really poor pocket presence while Keenum was able to escape and make more plays when pressured. That was a key aspect on why the offense has generally done worse on average since.

Even with the better olines our offense has not been matching the same ranking offensively though these last two seasons. In fact 2019 is Cousins best season here in terms of where the offense ranked in PPD. The main difference that season is that we relied on the running game more, Cousins had his least # of attempts that year.

Whatever man... Yeah your right Keenum wasn't a creator with his legs and better suited to avoid pressure... You got it bud... 🙄

I literally in this post said "Keenum was able to escape and make more plays when pressured" lol. I am sorry if the rest of the facts laid out don't line up with the narrative you want to push. The reality is right there though for anyone who wants to take a look. The franchise had more success the season before Cousins got here than any time with him. Him leaving doesn't mean we are necessarily doomed.

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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 16:05:57 GMT -6 via mobile pinfante79 likes this

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Post by holzberg on Oct 30, 2023 16:05:57 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 15:59:28 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Oct 30, 2023 15:55:13 GMT -6 holzberg said:

I feel like the Vikings have been in QB Hell since 2016 when they traded for Bradford. Ever since then I feel like the Vikings have invested in the QB position so much that it has hindered the ability to keep great players and remain competitive. Oddly enough, those high paid QBs did less then what Case Keenum did for us lol.

PS. And nobody cared that the Vikes got rid of Case Keenum, but oh boy, can't get rid of Cousins who has won one playoff game for us :facepalm:

I actually liked Bradford when healthy 🤷‍♂️

If Bradford didn't have all that knee trouble I think he could have been a very good QB. Probably on the same level as Cousins.

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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 16:07:31 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by pinfante79 on Oct 30, 2023 16:07:31 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 16:05:38 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

Oct 30, 2023 15:59:03 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Whatever man... Yeah your right Keenum wasn't a creator with his legs and better suited to avoid pressure... You got it bud... 🙄

I literally in this post said "Keenum was able to escape and make more plays when pressured" lol. I am sorry if the rest of the facts laid out don't line up with the narrative you want to push. The reality is right there though for anyone who wants to take a look. The franchise had more success the season before Cousins got here than any time with him. Him leaving doesn't mean we are necessarily doomed.

Then we agree. So I don't see your point. Yes OL is extremely important if you have a pocket passer and less important with a mobile QB. Great.

Did you just wanna waste time arguing with strangers on the Internet... C'mon man that's what Twitter is for...

Please don't follow me on Twitter @pi_Unmasked

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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 16:08:10 GMT -6 via Tapatalk holzberg likes this

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Post by pinfante79 on Oct 30, 2023 16:08:10 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 16:05:57 GMT -6 holzberg said:

Oct 30, 2023 15:59:28 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

I actually liked Bradford when healthy 🤷‍♂️

If Bradford didn't have all that knee trouble I think he could have been a very good QB. Probably on the same level as Cousins.

100% dude had arm talent. He stays healthy in 2017 we probably win the SB.

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mngopher35
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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 16:27:41 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by mngopher35 on Oct 30, 2023 16:27:41 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 16:07:31 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Oct 30, 2023 16:05:38 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

I literally in this post said "Keenum was able to escape and make more plays when pressured" lol. I am sorry if the rest of the facts laid out don't line up with the narrative you want to push. The reality is right there though for anyone who wants to take a look. The franchise had more success the season before Cousins got here than any time with him. Him leaving doesn't mean we are necessarily doomed.

Then we agree. So I don't see your point. Yes OL is extremely important if you have a pocket passer and less important with a mobile QB. Great.

Did you just wanna waste time arguing with strangers on the Internet... C'mon man that's what Twitter is for...

What? You are the one that focused on that aspect despite what I said lol. You are all over the place.

I responded to you because your initial points in the thread were way off base. The franchise isn’t doomed because Cousins time here is coming to an end. We literally did better the season before him with keenum as proof. Cousins didn’t live up to expectations or his salary for the large majority of his time here. He has one playoff win in his entire career. If anything we probably wasted time by not moving on earlier. At the very least moving on doesn’t mean we are doomed though.

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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 16:29:27 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by pinfante79 on Oct 30, 2023 16:29:27 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 16:27:41 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

Oct 30, 2023 16:07:31 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Then we agree. So I don't see your point. Yes OL is extremely important if you have a pocket passer and less important with a mobile QB. Great.

Did you just wanna waste time arguing with strangers on the Internet... C'mon man that's what Twitter is for...

What? You are the one that focused on that aspect despite what I said lol. You are all over the place.

I responded to you because your initial points in the thread were way off base. The franchise isn’t doomed because Cousins time here is coming to an end. We literally did better the season before him with keenum as proof. Cousins didn’t live up to expectations or his salary for the large majority of his time here. He has one playoff win in his entire career. If anything we probably wasted time by not moving on earlier. At the very least moving on doesn’t mean we are doomed though.

Scroll up dude. Iv said numerous times (and across numerous threads, over years none the less) that Cousins needed to be protected. This isn't rocket science. Anyone who thinks Case Keenum is as good as Kirk Cousins on any day of his life isn't a serious person. I'm sorry... 🤡😳🙄

And the franchise was doomed before cousins got here... We are what we are. The most snakebitten franchise in pro sports

Don't worry I'm sure you will love Jameis Winston.

Please don't follow me on Twitter @pi_Unmasked

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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 16:38:26 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by mngopher35 on Oct 30, 2023 16:38:26 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 16:29:27 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Oct 30, 2023 16:27:41 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

What? You are the one that focused on that aspect despite what I said lol. You are all over the place.

I responded to you because your initial points in the thread were way off base. The franchise isn’t doomed because Cousins time here is coming to an end. We literally did better the season before him with keenum as proof. Cousins didn’t live up to expectations or his salary for the large majority of his time here. He has one playoff win in his entire career. If anything we probably wasted time by not moving on earlier. At the very least moving on doesn’t mean we are doomed though.

Scroll up dude. Iv said numerous times (and across numerous threads, over years none the less) that Cousins needed to be protected. This isn't rocket science. Anyone who thinks Case Keenum is as good as Kirk Cousins on any day of his life isn't a serious person. I'm sorry... 🤡😳🙄

And the franchise was doomed before cousins got here... We are what we are. The most snakebitten franchise in pro sports

Don't worry I'm sure you will love Jameis Winston.

You also said a lot of other stuff too lol. If you scroll up you will see that I responded to some of it with some facts. I agree this isn’t rocket science and I’m guessing you can’t actually quote anyone saying that.

I will not, trading for Winston would also be a mistake. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if ownership pushed for something like that to happen though.

pinfante79
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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 16:41:00 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by pinfante79 on Oct 30, 2023 16:41:00 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 16:38:26 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

Oct 30, 2023 16:29:27 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Scroll up dude. Iv said numerous times (and across numerous threads, over years none the less) that Cousins needed to be protected. This isn't rocket science. Anyone who thinks Case Keenum is as good as Kirk Cousins on any day of his life isn't a serious person. I'm sorry... 🤡😳🙄

And the franchise was doomed before cousins got here... We are what we are. The most snakebitten franchise in pro sports

Don't worry I'm sure you will love Jameis Winston.

You also said a lot of other stuff too lol. If you scroll up you will see that I responded to some of it with some facts. I agree this isn’t rocket science and I’m guessing you can’t actually quote anyone saying that.

I will not, trading for Winston would also be a mistake. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if ownership pushed for something like that to happen though.

Bottom line. I'm 44. Iv watched the Vikings for 38 years. Kirk Cousins was the best QB we have had for any extended period of time. Period. Finding a better one will be tough because we haven't in 38 years that's iv watched this team.

Please don't follow me on Twitter @pi_Unmasked

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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 16:43:25 GMT -6

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Post by Danchat on Oct 30, 2023 16:43:25 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 15:28:27 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

A guy that sounds like the dumbest man in the sport learning a new offense mid season. Lol. 🤣🤣🤣

We have a management problem

I recommend you check the track record of this random guy on Twitter before proclaiming that our front office is stupid. This guy has zero credibility, he reported that the 49ers turned down a 2nd round pick for Trey Lance and then two months later reported that they couldn't find a team who would take him for a late round pick, right before he did get traded for a mid round pick.

Last Edit: Oct 30, 2023 16:43:59 GMT -6 by Danchat

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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 16:44:44 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by pinfante79 on Oct 30, 2023 16:44:44 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 16:43:25 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Oct 30, 2023 15:28:27 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

A guy that sounds like the dumbest man in the sport learning a new offense mid season. Lol. 🤣🤣🤣

We have a management problem

I recommend you check the track record of this random guy on Twitter before proclaiming that our front office is stupid. This guy has zero credibility, he reported that the 49ers turned down a 2nd round pick for Trey Lance and then two months later reported that they couldn't find a team who would take him for a late round pick, right before he did get traded for a mid round pick.

🤞 from your lips to God's ears. Winston would probably be literally the worst move we could make.

Please don't follow me on Twitter @pi_Unmasked

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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 16:56:09 GMT -6 via mobile VFL likes this

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Post by mngopher35 on Oct 30, 2023 16:56:09 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 16:41:00 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Oct 30, 2023 16:38:26 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

You also said a lot of other stuff too lol. If you scroll up you will see that I responded to some of it with some facts. I agree this isn’t rocket science and I’m guessing you can’t actually quote anyone saying that.

I will not, trading for Winston would also be a mistake. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if ownership pushed for something like that to happen though.

Bottom line. I'm 44. Iv watched the Vikings for 38 years. Kirk Cousins was the best QB we have had for any extended period of time. Period. Finding a better one will be tough because we haven't in 38 years that's iv watched this team.

I think there were others who had better individual seasons here but I actually agree in terms of his sustained level of play for a 6 year period. Culpepper is probably the only one we even kept starting for 5 seasons other than him.

That doesn’t mean the team doesn’t have any hope anymore compared to with Kirk though which was what you said. Kirk also cost this team far more $ than any other qb has which limits what can be spent on the rest of the roster. When you factor in that cost compared to the production it just wasn’t worth it. That’s why this team has had more success outside of Kirk time here despite what you saying being true. We need to get better at asset evaluation/management if we want to build a long term contender.

So while Kirk has been an above average qb which is rare for us, that doesn’t mean he was worth the price tag in the end. The offense wasn’t truly elevated from where it had been before him. Moving on from him doesn’t mean we go from having hope to not having it. The Kirk experiment failed in the end and whether or not we get a better qb right away the franchise as a whole can have a brighter outlook long term without him.

Last Edit: Oct 30, 2023 16:58:30 GMT -6 by mngopher35