Kirk, Or A Potential First Round QB in 2024?

PurpleFloyd
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Kirk, Or A Potential First Round QB in 2024? Nov 20, 2023 14:25:01 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Nov 20, 2023 14:25:01 GMT -6

Nov 20, 2023 8:59:10 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

Nov 20, 2023 8:36:17 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Once again you are incorrect. I know Kirk has flaws and if they happen to find a QB who is better I have a long history of saying we should replace him with that player.

However there are too many fans who think we can just flick a switch and replace his productivity when we haven’t had the kind of long term stability we have had with him in a couple decades since Culpepper was here. And before that you have to go back to Tarkenton.

And all week those who are the most against Kirk were all in on Dobbs being the answer. Last night showed us why mobility isn’t always a benefit. Especially when you panic under pressure and throw the ball up for grabs multiple times. We haven’t seen that since Tarvaris Jackson.

We also haven't wasted so much $ on a single position before and look at the hole that has put us in these last chunk of years (and next). It's not necessarily that people think we can flick a switch and improve with a more consistent QB. It's that even with the lesser QB's we have seen the offense doesn't necessarily fall off much compared to with him and can even look better in the end for a much cheaper price. That is what makes it dumb to keep paying up to keep Kirk around and it is also true if Dobbs or others get 20+ mil too. Moving on from Kirk for many includes the idea of getting cheaper at the position, hopefully with a highly drafted rookie. It doesn't mean we for sure get a better player than Kirk but compared to the salaries he had been getting we can still get better value.

Mobility is still a big benefit and you could still see that last night. It's just that Dobbs isn't nearly as good of a thrower as you get at and that will hold him back. I also specifically said the other day I hope we don't pay up for Dobbs either and that what we saw those first two games likely wasn't sustainable. So I don't think that is true, as I said many just want to run with cheaper options at the QB position so we can focus on building up the rest of the roster and getting our cap situation fixed.

It didn’t put us in a hole. That’s just dumb and really doesn’t warrant a response.

“Isn’t as good of a thrower “

Welp, that’s actually what I want a QB to be good at.

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Kirk, Or A Potential First Round QB in 2024? Nov 20, 2023 16:19:05 GMT -6 via mobile Oracle Bone Diviner and VFL like this

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Post by mngopher35 on Nov 20, 2023 16:19:05 GMT -6

Nov 20, 2023 14:25:01 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Nov 20, 2023 8:59:10 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

We also haven't wasted so much $ on a single position before and look at the hole that has put us in these last chunk of years (and next). It's not necessarily that people think we can flick a switch and improve with a more consistent QB. It's that even with the lesser QB's we have seen the offense doesn't necessarily fall off much compared to with him and can even look better in the end for a much cheaper price. That is what makes it dumb to keep paying up to keep Kirk around and it is also true if Dobbs or others get 20+ mil too. Moving on from Kirk for many includes the idea of getting cheaper at the position, hopefully with a highly drafted rookie. It doesn't mean we for sure get a better player than Kirk but compared to the salaries he had been getting we can still get better value.

Mobility is still a big benefit and you could still see that last night. It's just that Dobbs isn't nearly as good of a thrower as you get at and that will hold him back. I also specifically said the other day I hope we don't pay up for Dobbs either and that what we saw those first two games likely wasn't sustainable. So I don't think that is true, as I said many just want to run with cheaper options at the QB position so we can focus on building up the rest of the roster and getting our cap situation fixed.

It didn’t put us in a hole. That’s just dumb and really doesn’t warrant a response.

“Isn’t as good of a thrower “

Welp, that’s actually what I want a QB to be good at.

Lol well that’s alright I don’t want to have to explain to you how the salary cap works anyways. It’s absolutely a big factor when discussing a players value/expectations though.

I want my qb to be good at leading a team to scoring points no matter how it’s done. Being a better thrower doesn’t always make a better qb. Awareness, decision making, athletic ability etc all also factor in. That’s where cousins often has issues is the other areas outside of just his arm.

Last Edit: Nov 20, 2023 16:26:34 GMT -6 by mngopher35

PurpleFloyd
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Kirk, Or A Potential First Round QB in 2024? Nov 20, 2023 16:30:09 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Nov 20, 2023 16:30:09 GMT -6

Nov 20, 2023 16:19:05 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

Nov 20, 2023 14:25:01 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

It didn’t put us in a hole. That’s just dumb and really doesn’t warrant a response.

“Isn’t as good of a thrower “

Welp, that’s actually what I want a QB to be good at.

Lol well that’s alright I don’t have time to explain to you how the salary cap works anyways. It’s absolutely a big factor when discussing a players value/expectations though.

I want my qb to be good at leading a team to scoring points no matter how it’s done. Being a better thrower doesn’t always make a better qb. Awareness, decision making, athletic ability etc all also factor in. That’s where cousins often has issues is the other areas outside of just his arm.

That’s a crock of BS 😆. Now you are really at straws. He literally had the most comebacks in history the last few years and while he definitely had a slow start the first few games he was playing as good as any QB in the league the games leading up to his injury.

He certainly wasn’t throwing up SCUD missiles when he was getting chased by a defender.

He is as good as Prescott and the Cowboys stuck with him and have assembled a solid roster around him. That’s what should be done. The Cowboys aren’t crying about the price of a QB because they understand how much it sucks to not have a good one.

The Lions are leading the division with a QB who is no better than Kirk. The Packers and Bears have first round “movie” QBs on rookie contracts like some rubes are demanding. You want their QBs? You can probably get them cheap coming up when the team decides to cut their losses if that’s what you are into.

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Kirk, Or A Potential First Round QB in 2024? Nov 20, 2023 16:59:00 GMT -6 via mobile ratsalad likes this

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Post by mngopher35 on Nov 20, 2023 16:59:00 GMT -6

Nov 20, 2023 16:30:09 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Nov 20, 2023 16:19:05 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

Lol well that’s alright I don’t have time to explain to you how the salary cap works anyways. It’s absolutely a big factor when discussing a players value/expectations though.

I want my qb to be good at leading a team to scoring points no matter how it’s done. Being a better thrower doesn’t always make a better qb. Awareness, decision making, athletic ability etc all also factor in. That’s where cousins often has issues is the other areas outside of just his arm.

That’s a crock of BS 😆. Now you are really at straws. He literally had the most comebacks in history the last few years and while he definitely had a slow start the first few games he was playing as good as any QB in the league the games leading up to his injury.

He certainly wasn’t throwing up SCUD missiles when he was getting chased by a defender.

He is as good as Prescott and the Cowboys stuck with him and have assembled a solid roster around him. That’s what should be done. The Cowboys aren’t crying about the price of a QB because they understand how much it sucks to not have a good one.

The Lions are leading the division with a QB who is no better than Kirk. The Packers and Bears have first round “movie” QBs on rookie contracts like some rubes are demanding. You want their QBs? You can probably get them cheap coming up when the team decides to cut their losses if that’s what you are into.

Lol this doesn’t negate anything I was saying. Kirk often has had great streaks of play mixed with bad ones in his career. We can all agree there.

Prescott has constantly been talked about and questioned lol. Playing for the cowboys it’s probably been a bigger topic nationally even. The cowboys also took advantage of dak on a rookie deal for 4 years and now have given one big contract with a good cast around him. I have said that the time to pay up for a qb is if he is elite or if you have a team you think is sb ready and just needs a good one. That’s where they think they are and are tanking their shot, we had a team like that in place in 2017 but it fell off with cousins. 6 years later and we have a roster needing work and a qb that already failed in a better situation like that who is 35ish and coming off an Achilles injury. The differences here should be pretty obvious…

Name me a team that has ever had success paying up for a qb like Kirk in a similar situation to us, I will wait. You want to know when drafting a qb and taking advantage has worked for other teams? Every sb winner except Brady/manning teams the last decade. That’s what I would like the Vikings to do is take the most logical route to building a contender based on recent history in the nfl. It makes a lot more sense than going into year 7/8 etc etc with the same failing plan (with more cap issues and a less talented roster than when he got here).

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Kirk, Or A Potential First Round QB in 2024? Nov 20, 2023 17:00:36 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by mngopher35 on Nov 20, 2023 17:00:36 GMT -6

Nov 20, 2023 16:59:00 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

Nov 20, 2023 16:30:09 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

That’s a crock of BS 😆. Now you are really at straws. He literally had the most comebacks in history the last few years and while he definitely had a slow start the first few games he was playing as good as any QB in the league the games leading up to his injury.

He certainly wasn’t throwing up SCUD missiles when he was getting chased by a defender.

He is as good as Prescott and the Cowboys stuck with him and have assembled a solid roster around him. That’s what should be done. The Cowboys aren’t crying about the price of a QB because they understand how much it sucks to not have a good one.

The Lions are leading the division with a QB who is no better than Kirk. The Packers and Bears have first round “movie” QBs on rookie contracts like some rubes are demanding. You want their QBs? You can probably get them cheap coming up when the team decides to cut their losses if that’s what you are into.

Lol this doesn’t negate anything I was saying. Kirk often has had great streaks of play mixed with bad ones in his career. We can all agree there and I gave him a lot of credit for last season.

Prescott has constantly been talked about and questioned lol. Playing for the cowboys it’s probably been a bigger topic nationally even. The cowboys also took advantage of dak on a rookie deal for 4 years and now have given one big contract with a good cast around him. I have said that the time to pay up for a qb is if he is elite or if you have a team you think is sb ready and just needs a good one. That’s where they think they are and are tanking their shot, we had a team like that in place in 2017 but it fell off with cousins. 6 years later and we have a roster needing work and a qb that already failed in a better situation like that who is 35ish and coming off an Achilles injury. The differences here should be pretty obvious…

Name me a team that has ever had success paying up for a qb like Kirk in a similar situation to us being described, I will wait (it's never worked in the history of the NFL to save you some time). You want to know when drafting a qb and taking advantage has worked for other teams? Every sb winner except Brady/manning teams the last decade. That’s what I would like the Vikings to do is take the most logical route to building a contender based on recent history in the nfl. It makes a lot more sense than going into year 7/8 etc etc with the same failing plan at QB (with more cap issues and a less talented roster than when he got here). That much should be obvious to anyone paying attention to how the league has been working in recent history.

Last Edit: Nov 20, 2023 17:07:42 GMT -6 by mngopher35

Deleted Ghosted Member Posts: 0 Likes:	Kirk, Or A Potential First Round QB in 2024? Nov 20, 2023 18:20:20 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2023 18:20:20 GMT -6 Go get Sam Hartman. What a ya have to lose at this point.

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Kirk, Or A Potential First Round QB in 2024? Nov 25, 2023 23:33:42 GMT -6 FSUVike likes this

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Post by Funkytown on Nov 25, 2023 23:33:42 GMT -6

Purple Insider Mailbag:

@jesseca88568330 Say everything goes better for Dobbs the rest of the year. How does Mike McCartney play it out with Kwesi. Seems like he would hold all the cards... he reps Kirk and Dobbs. Both unrestricted free agents. Does he take both to market? Vike will have to tell him their preferences

I can’t speak for McCartney but Adofo-Mensah has talked about them having a relationship so I suspect that he’s already aware of where the Vikings stand on Kirk’s future. Both sides are pretty much going to play this thing the same way. They are going to have their price for each guy and see how that matches up with the other side. Last offseason Kirk’s side wanted a longer deal and the team wouldn’t budge. I’m not sure why that would change post Achilles injury, which makes me think Kirk’s agent would be searching the market to see if someone else would go there. If not, the price for his return comes down. With Dobbs, if he plays well enough for the Vikings to want him back there is pretty good precedent for the price with how the Seahawks handled Geno Smith. If that type of deal is too much of a commitment for the Vikings (Geno’s cap hit is only $10M this year, by the way), then who knows where it could go. I would be pretty surprised if they went into next year without a veteran QB, even if they draft one.

@tromba55 What are the odds Kirk is back next year? Also- if they don’t draft a QB with their first pick next April, what is the top position of need? We need a stud defensive tackle but if we don’t sign Hunter we need edge…

If you asked 50 people this question you’d probably get 50 different answers for the odds that he returns. Personally I do not see the odds as being all that high because of the way last offseason was handled with him. Maybe the injury and his desire to be here changes the formula or maybe Dobbs changes their view on how hard he would be to replace. Who knows.

Outside of QB, yes, defensive line should be the top priority. Even if they extend Hunter they will need another rusher that scares opponents and allows them to back off the blitzing at times. You are totally right that interior pass rush should be a priority. They haven’t had pressure up the middle since Sheldon Richardson in 2018.

@sean_sarro If Dobbs continues to impress, what’s the level AAS that the Vikings will offer him? Is he a 15-20 Million a year guy? What are your thoughts on the path the franchise should go down to determine who their QB is going to be. Hall has to be in the backup equation I’d think

So I mentioned Geno Smith’s deal. He signed for three years, $75 million with cap hits of $10M, $31M and $33M and the Seahawks can bail for almost no dead money after two years. That seems fair to me if Dobbs gets them to the playoffs and they are happy with his performance. No way he’s taking $10 million to start. Someone will top that easily.

If I was determining the path, it would be keeping Dobbs and drafting a quarterback in the first round, even if it means trading up. I’d be hard pressed to be talked into any other way of going about it but I could certainly see them feeling like the team is ready to take the next step and Cousins returning.

Link:

purpleinsider.substack.com/p/friday-mailbag-jjs-return

legendsofthenorth
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Kirk, Or A Potential First Round QB in 2024? Nov 27, 2023 21:38:18 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by legendsofthenorth on Nov 27, 2023 21:38:18 GMT -6

Nov 17, 2023 6:09:10 GMT -6 coltrane said:

Nov 16, 2023 17:06:26 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

It could be that we had a defense that didn’t stop anyone at the end of games. Was it up to him to make tackles too?

Not a single example of anything I said above has anything to do with the defense.

Nov 16, 2023 17:47:25 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

I watch a ton of NFL football. Which QB was playing better than Kirk this year. I know you wont answer...

That's cute. Dobbs has outplayed him so far, so if Kirk was the best QB in the league this year then that means Dobbs is now. How lucky we are!!! I can't believe this team's good fortune.

This is why I have a hard time with this site anymore

PurpleFloyd
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Kirk, Or A Potential First Round QB in 2024? Nov 27, 2023 22:09:18 GMT -6 via mobile FSUVike likes this

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Nov 27, 2023 22:09:18 GMT -6

Nov 27, 2023 21:38:18 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

Nov 17, 2023 6:09:10 GMT -6 coltrane said:

Not a single example of anything I said above has anything to do with the defense.

That's cute. Dobbs has outplayed him so far, so if Kirk was the best QB in the league this year then that means Dobbs is now. How lucky we are!!! I can't believe this team's good fortune.

This is why I have a hard time with this site anymore

That take didn’t age well.

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Kirk, Or A Potential First Round QB in 2024? Nov 27, 2023 22:10:14 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by legendsofthenorth on Nov 27, 2023 22:10:14 GMT -6

Nov 27, 2023 22:09:18 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Nov 27, 2023 21:38:18 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

This is why I have a hard time with this site anymore

That take didn’t age well.

Yeah think

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Kirk, Or A Potential First Round QB in 2024? Nov 27, 2023 23:58:20 GMT -6 Funkytown and mngopher35 like this

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Post by Danchat on Nov 27, 2023 23:58:20 GMT -6

So I'm guessing we can kiss goodbye the whole "Dobbs is getting a Geno Smith deal" idea?

I'd still be down for bringing back Dobbs as a high-end backup QB as his play this year is still better than the majority of backup QBs... but for the price of a backup QB. Certainly nothing over $20M a year.

dron13 Ball Boy Posts: 65 Likes: 40	Kirk, Or A Potential First Round QB in 2024? Nov 28, 2023 0:13:04 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by dron13 on Nov 28, 2023 0:13:04 GMT -6 Remember who our Gm is Caleb Williams could be sitting there and our guy would trade back for a couple 7th round picks.

PurpleFloyd
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Kirk, Or A Potential First Round QB in 2024? Nov 28, 2023 7:03:51 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Nov 28, 2023 7:03:51 GMT -6

Nov 27, 2023 23:58:20 GMT -6 Danchat said:

So I'm guessing we can kiss goodbye the whole "Dobbs is getting a Geno Smith deal" idea?

I'd still be down for bringing back Dobbs as a high-end backup QB as his play this year is still better than the majority of backup QBs... but for the price of a backup QB. Certainly nothing over $20M a year.

Ball security is the #1 thing you want in a backup and Dobbs is like a jock strap with a big hole in it 😆

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Kirk, Or A Potential First Round QB in 2024? Nov 28, 2023 8:50:28 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by mngopher35 on Nov 28, 2023 8:50:28 GMT -6

Nov 27, 2023 23:58:20 GMT -6 Danchat said:

So I'm guessing we can kiss goodbye the whole "Dobbs is getting a Geno Smith deal" idea?

I'd still be down for bringing back Dobbs as a high-end backup QB as his play this year is still better than the majority of backup QBs... but for the price of a backup QB. Certainly nothing over $20M a year.

Ya I can’t believe people were actually talking about paying him like that. There is a reason he has been moving around and paid so low in his career. Even when we were winning some of the throws were very questionable.

I see no reason not to give hall a chance if Dobbs is playing like this. We have some extra time to get him more reps too.

At the end of the day whether it is Dobbs or some other vet that’s bounced around the key is just staying cheaper at the qb position. Draft our qbotf with a high pick and plan on him getting as many reps as possible.

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Kirk, Or A Potential First Round QB in 2024? Nov 28, 2023 10:44:02 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by FSUVike on Nov 28, 2023 10:44:02 GMT -6

Kirk, or a potential First Round Rookie QB in 2024 is starting to look more and more like Kirk, IMO.

Kevin wants a robot at QB. He's cock-sure that the target he's designed the play to go to will be open because he's such a genius at designing intermediate routes. To some degree he actually is a genius at this, just not to the extent he thinks he is, and to the detriment of the rest of the Playbook.

So you'd better damn well stay in the pocket, stay on your primary read and throw him the ball unless he's absolutely blanketed or falls down. And if that play is designed to go to JJ throw him the damn ball even if he's covered. And throw it with accuracy.

Kirk Cousins is as close to a robot as you're going to find. He's unable to scramble. He's not afraid to get hit time and time again. He is remarkably durable despite taking all of those hits. He's accurate.

And most importantly he's learned to stay on that primary read.

The only kid that seems to fit that bill is Penix. Except he's not durable at all. Quite the opposite. And his accuracy has plummeted in recent weeks.

Many will say Nix but he had terrible pocket presence at Auburn and throws a lot of checkdowns at Oregon.

Sanders actually fits the bill pretty well except he's already taken a beating in college. McCarthy is too skinny so I worry about injuries. Daniels and Travis run far too much for O'Connell to like either of them. And Travis isn't accurate enough. I don't like Ewers or Hartman after both regressed this year.

Maye is probably the best fit but Kwesi would have to mortgage the future of the Defense to make it happen.

So given that Minnesota isn't moving on from Kevin O'Connell as the HC, who is unwilling to fire his incompetent OC, it's highly likely its Cousins coming back for 2 more years as he just checks more boxes for what he wants than any of these prospects.

Last Edit: Nov 28, 2023 10:46:32 GMT -6 by FSUVike