Positives and negatives through 13 games

Danchat
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Positives and negatives through 13 games Dec 5, 2022 21:03:45 GMT -6 suncoastvike likes this

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Post by Danchat on Dec 5, 2022 21:03:45 GMT -6

Dec 5, 2022 13:36:36 GMT -6 Josey Wales said:

Biggest positive:
KOC has established a culture of winning that the entire organization has bought into and more importantly, it shows up on Sundays.

Biggest negative/s:
It's a tie between Donatell's scheme and his clear lack of coaching ability, and Kwesi's inability to select impactful players in the draft. Yes, I know it's premature for ultimate evaluations on 1st year players, but there are far too many rookies taken every year that come in and dominate, you're telling me we can't at LEAST get a serviceable player out of our 1st Round, or 2 2nd round picks?

Whatever he did this year, he needs to do the exact opposite in next year's draft. Stop playing Moneyball with your Ivy league analytics system and get some football people in there that actually know how to evaluate talent.

If he doesn't turn it around and get it right, it won't matter what type of culture we establish. If there's no young talent to fill the pipeline of aging players we're currently fielding, he'll end up sinking the entire organization.

I don't know how much to put on Donatell, as A) our defensive talent is generally underwhelming outside of edge rusher, B) the defensive plan is still working more often than not, and the shell defense has become very popular in the NFL, and C) Zimmer's man-heavy and middle-of-the-road blitzing tendencies didn't work in 2020-21 with a similarly questionable defense. Maybe the poor tackling is his fault, as Zimmer did usually have his teams more disciplined. But then on the other side of the spectrum, Ed's defense is very good at not drawing penalties.

Kwesi's best draft trade so far has been the Hockenson move - got a young TE who hasn't hit his ceiling yet, compared to the alternate of drafting a TE in 2023 and waiting way too long for him to develop. It is possible we are better off trading our picks like the Rams, if we're going to blow them regardless.

Funkytown Owner Purple Pain Big Dog Posts: 67,638 Likes: 31,565 Fan Since: 1998	Positives and negatives through 13 games Dec 6, 2022 3:29:46 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Funkytown on Dec 6, 2022 3:29:46 GMT -6 I'll let you figure out the positives and negatives here.

oneanddone
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Positives and negatives through 13 games Dec 6, 2022 6:51:37 GMT -6 comet52 and Josey Wales like this

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Post by oneanddone on Dec 6, 2022 6:51:37 GMT -6

Dec 5, 2022 13:36:36 GMT -6 Josey Wales said:

Biggest positive:
KOC has established a culture of winning that the entire organization has bought into and more importantly, it shows up on Sundays.

Biggest negative/s:
It's a tie between Donatell's scheme and his clear lack of coaching ability, and Kwesi's inability to select impactful players in the draft. Yes, I know it's premature for ultimate evaluations on 1st year players, but there are far too many rookies taken every year that come in and dominate, you're telling me we can't at LEAST get a serviceable player out of our 1st Round, or 2 2nd round picks?

Whatever he did this year, he needs to do the exact opposite in next year's draft. Stop playing Moneyball with your Ivy league analytics system and get some football people in there that actually know how to evaluate talent.

If he doesn't turn it around and get it right, it won't matter what type of culture we establish. If there's no young talent to fill the pipeline of aging players we're currently fielding, he'll end up sinking the entire organization.

His draft really sucked. I know you can't predict injuries but his draft sucked anyway.

Throw in the fact that you let your division enemies move up on you for sh*t in return and it was just a plain ass bad draft.

CAMartin
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Positives and negatives through 13 games Dec 6, 2022 7:48:21 GMT -6

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Post by CAMartin on Dec 6, 2022 7:48:21 GMT -6

Dec 6, 2022 6:51:37 GMT -6 oneanddone said:

Dec 5, 2022 13:36:36 GMT -6 Josey Wales said:

Biggest positive:
KOC has established a culture of winning that the entire organization has bought into and more importantly, it shows up on Sundays.

Biggest negative/s:
It's a tie between Donatell's scheme and his clear lack of coaching ability, and Kwesi's inability to select impactful players in the draft. Yes, I know it's premature for ultimate evaluations on 1st year players, but there are far too many rookies taken every year that come in and dominate, you're telling me we can't at LEAST get a serviceable player out of our 1st Round, or 2 2nd round picks?

Whatever he did this year, he needs to do the exact opposite in next year's draft. Stop playing Moneyball with your Ivy league analytics system and get some football people in there that actually know how to evaluate talent.

If he doesn't turn it around and get it right, it won't matter what type of culture we establish. If there's no young talent to fill the pipeline of aging players we're currently fielding, he'll end up sinking the entire organization.

His draft really sucked. I know you can't predict injuries but his draft sucked anyway.

Throw in the fact that you let your division enemies move up on you for sh*t in return and it was just a plain ass bad draft.

Yeah, because the rest of the NFCN is just ROCKIN' with those picks...!

Meanwhile, we're the only team in the division likely to get to the playoffs. Huh.

OK, KOC...time to earn that money and acclaim...!

oneanddone
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Positives and negatives through 13 games Dec 6, 2022 8:43:53 GMT -6

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Post by oneanddone on Dec 6, 2022 8:43:53 GMT -6

Dec 6, 2022 7:48:21 GMT -6 CAMartin said:

Dec 6, 2022 6:51:37 GMT -6 oneanddone said:

His draft really sucked. I know you can't predict injuries but his draft sucked anyway.

Throw in the fact that you let your division enemies move up on you for sh*t in return and it was just a plain ass bad draft.

Yeah, because the rest of the NFCN is just ROCKIN' with those picks...!

Meanwhile, we're the only team in the division likely to get to the playoffs. Huh.

What are you talking about? Watson from GB is quickly becoming very fricken good.

CAMartin
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Positives and negatives through 13 games Dec 6, 2022 9:28:53 GMT -6

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Post by CAMartin on Dec 6, 2022 9:28:53 GMT -6

Dec 6, 2022 8:43:53 GMT -6 oneanddone said:

Dec 6, 2022 7:48:21 GMT -6 CAMartin said:

Yeah, because the rest of the NFCN is just ROCKIN' with those picks...!

Meanwhile, we're the only team in the division likely to get to the playoffs. Huh.

What are you talking about? Watson from GB is quickly becoming very fricken good.

Yeah, but...not good enough to get them enough Ws to matter this offseason. Granted, both of our top defensive picks are hurt and haven't done diddly-yet-so, it's hard to know what we got in the process.

I just find it laughable that there's still this pissing and moaning about the draft when we're 10-2 and the only team in the division likely to be in the postseason. Something obviously worked.

OK, KOC...time to earn that money and acclaim...!

oneanddone
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Positives and negatives through 13 games Dec 6, 2022 9:53:08 GMT -6

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Post by oneanddone on Dec 6, 2022 9:53:08 GMT -6

Dec 6, 2022 9:28:53 GMT -6 CAMartin said:

Dec 6, 2022 8:43:53 GMT -6 oneanddone said:

What are you talking about? Watson from GB is quickly becoming very fricken good.

Yeah, but...not good enough to get them enough Ws to matter this offseason. Granted, both of our top defensive picks are hurt and haven't done diddly-yet-so, it's hard to know what we got in the process.

I just find it laughable that there's still this pissing and moaning about the draft when we're 10-2 and the only team in the division likely to be in the postseason. Something obviously worked.

You are right about that. They are 10-2 with the same roster they failed with last season so I give it to the coaching, not the GM. We shall see what direction the GM goes after this season with very little draft picks and a aging over the hill roster with big contracts.

CAMartin
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Positives and negatives through 13 games Dec 6, 2022 10:17:00 GMT -6 vikingpwr likes this

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Post by CAMartin on Dec 6, 2022 10:17:00 GMT -6

Dec 6, 2022 9:53:08 GMT -6 oneanddone said:

Dec 6, 2022 9:28:53 GMT -6 CAMartin said:

Yeah, but...not good enough to get them enough Ws to matter this offseason. Granted, both of our top defensive picks are hurt and haven't done diddly-yet-so, it's hard to know what we got in the process.

I just find it laughable that there's still this pissing and moaning about the draft when we're 10-2 and the only team in the division likely to be in the postseason. Something obviously worked.

You are right about that. They are 10-2 with the same roster they failed with last season so I give it to the coaching, not the GM. We shall see what direction the GM goes after this season with very little draft picks and a aging over the hill roster with big contracts.

Well, I guess if one gripe fails, it's best to have a fallback...?

I usually wait for a team to fail before, y'know, b***hing about said failure, but I guess some people like pre-filing those things for...reasons...?

OK, KOC...time to earn that money and acclaim...!

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Positives and negatives through 13 games Dec 6, 2022 11:06:27 GMT -6 via mobile TAFKASP, kmillard, and 2 more like this

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Post by holzberg on Dec 6, 2022 11:06:27 GMT -6

To me, it seemed like the defense put a lot of pressure on quarterbacks in the first half of the season and now they aren't putting any. I'm not saying they don't get a couple of sacks, but it seems like quarterbacks always have a lot of time.

legendsofthenorth Ring of Honor Enter your message here... Posts: 5,723 Likes: 3,265	Positives and negatives through 13 games Dec 7, 2022 22:35:49 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by legendsofthenorth on Dec 7, 2022 22:35:49 GMT -6 Positive: Rick Spielmans last couple drafts Negative: KAMs first draft
	Last Edit: Dec 7, 2022 22:36:02 GMT -6 by legendsofthenorth

vikingpwr
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Positives and negatives through 13 games Dec 7, 2022 23:35:35 GMT -6

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Post by vikingpwr on Dec 7, 2022 23:35:35 GMT -6

Dec 7, 2022 22:35:49 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

Positive: Rick Spielmans last couple drafts

Negative: KAMs first draft

Funny you say that. It wasn't long ago fans were ripping Ricky for getting lucky and having only one player (Justin Jefferson) from the 2020 draft worth a sh*t.

Ezra Cleveland is playing well for us. Solid LG.

Cameron Dantzler is playing well for us. Solid CB.

DJ Wonnum is sacking QBs left and right when nobody's blocking him.

Solid rotational player.

James Lynch is a solid rotational player. My fellow Viking fan calls him FatAxl. Gun n Roses.....

Troy Dye is meh. He did recover a fumble against the Cards though and KJ Wright scored 4 plays later. Solid STs player.

KJ Osborn is playing well for us. Solid WR.

Blake Brandel is holding down the fort while Darrisaw is out. Solid backup.

Josh Metellus is a very good STs player and a solid backup.

They say Ricky was lucky again in the 2021 draft when he traded down and got Christian Darrisaw.

Christian Darrisaw is a very good LT.

Patrick Jones II is a good rotational player.

Kene the Nene is a very good KR.

Camryn Bynum is a solid S.

13 players right there......................

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Positives and negatives through 13 games Dec 8, 2022 0:16:58 GMT -6

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Post by Raptorman on Dec 8, 2022 0:16:58 GMT -6

Dec 7, 2022 22:35:49 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

Positive: Rick Spielmans last couple drafts

Negative: KAMs first draft

I never judge a draft in the first year. Say all the draft picks make the team and 50% become starters. It just shows that the team you had the year before sucked. Because no GM is that good at drafting players and that percentage of players picked in a draft by any one team are never that good. There is a 50% bust ratio in the first round alone, and it goes up from there the further down the draft you go. If 20% of your draft class, give or take a few percentage points, is starting two years down the road it's a good draft.

You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.

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Positives and negatives through 13 games Dec 8, 2022 5:57:39 GMT -6

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Post by SiteWolf on Dec 8, 2022 5:57:39 GMT -6

Dec 8, 2022 0:16:58 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Dec 7, 2022 22:35:49 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

Positive: Rick Spielmans last couple drafts

Negative: KAMs first draft

I never judge a draft in the first year. Say all the draft picks make the team and 50% become starters. It just shows that the team you had the year before sucked. Because no GM is that good at drafting players and that percentage of players picked in a draft by any one team are never that good. There is a 50% bust ratio in the first round alone, and it goes up from there the further down the draft you go. If 20% of your draft class, give or take a few percentage points, is starting two years down the road it's a good draft.

Too many people here talked like, since Cine and Booth supplied nothing this year because of injuries, we should have drafted Hamilton. Well, it's not like Hamilton has been all world and this is only year one....plus, we were just as (or more) likely to have drafted Jordan Davis, if we stayed put...who's been injured most of the year.

And agreed, if your draft picks all make the team and a bunch of them start, that has to mean your pre-draft roster was pretty bad and/or had a ton of holes.

vikingpwr
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Positives and negatives through 13 games Dec 8, 2022 12:35:16 GMT -6

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Post by vikingpwr on Dec 8, 2022 12:35:16 GMT -6

Dec 8, 2022 0:16:58 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Dec 7, 2022 22:35:49 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

Positive: Rick Spielmans last couple drafts

Negative: KAMs first draft

I never judge a draft in the first year. Say all the draft picks make the team and 50% become starters. It just shows that the team you had the year before sucked. Because no GM is that good at drafting players and that percentage of players picked in a draft by any one team are never that good. There is a 50% bust ratio in the first round alone, and it goes up from there the further down the draft you go. If 20% of your draft class, give or take a few percentage points, is starting two years down the road it's a good draft.

Depending on the team isn't there really only 4 or 5 open starting roster spots any given year, maybe less, that a rookie can realistically start or get a significant amount of snaps? Are most positions somewhat filled with a FA signing before the draft?

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Positives and negatives through 13 games Dec 8, 2022 13:12:25 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by FSUVike on Dec 8, 2022 13:12:25 GMT -6

Dec 8, 2022 12:35:16 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Dec 8, 2022 0:16:58 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

I never judge a draft in the first year. Say all the draft picks make the team and 50% become starters. It just shows that the team you had the year before sucked. Because no GM is that good at drafting players and that percentage of players picked in a draft by any one team are never that good. There is a 50% bust ratio in the first round alone, and it goes up from there the further down the draft you go. If 20% of your draft class, give or take a few percentage points, is starting two years down the road it's a good draft.

Depending on the team isn't there really only 4 or 5 open starting roster spots any given year, maybe less, that a rookie can realistically start or get a significant amount of snaps? Are most positions somewhat filled with a FA signing before the draft?

Exactly.

And what Starting spots were actually open to competition in Minnesota? RG, obviously. Safety opposite Smith. Hard for Rookie CBs not named Sauce Gardner to supplant veterans, even meh ones like Dantzler. Hicks wasn't signed to ride the pine behind Asamoah. Nailor was never going to beat out Osborn in Year 1, though I suspect he'll get a shot next season. Otomewo is a flyer.

The whole Jordan Davis idea is just ludicrous. You don't have Tomlinson and ink Phillips just to turn around and add yet another run stuffer with almost zero pass rushing skills. Now, if Kwesi hadn't added Phillips that's fine. But Davis showed zero pass rushing skills in college and showed zilch when he was healthy. So his addition over Harry wouldn't have done anything to address the lack of interior pressure when Tomlinson was out.

Judge this Draft Class when Kendricks, Smith and Peterson are gone and if Ingram becomes a League Average Starter. If 2 of Cine, Booth, Asamoah and Evans are legit Starters it was a good Draft. If 2 are legit and Ingram is League Average or better it was a great Draft.