Nice for Cousins, though...

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Nice for Cousins, though... Jan 3, 2022 22:11:09 GMT -6 Funkytown, Jor-El, and 1 more like this

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Post by Danchat on Jan 3, 2022 22:11:09 GMT -6

Jan 3, 2022 22:01:00 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Maybe but the 2017 team and 2018 team were a world of difference. A much tougher schedule, a much worse OL, a terrible OC.

If we really were the 2nd best team in the conference, how does a tougher schedule and one bad coach knock us down 5 wins? DeFilippo was incompetent, but wouldn't it be nice to have a QB who could overcome that? Especially when the OC's plan was to go pass-heavy... with the highest paid QB in football...

Jan 3, 2022 22:01:00 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Like iv said, people are likely to get what they asked for and I can see things getting pretty bad until we find the next QB. I just hope I'm not 57 when we do if it takes another 15 years...

I honestly have almost no idea where to go with this team. I'm just disgusted. I just never wanna hear "all we need is above avg or steady QB play"... grass is always greener....

If we literally try to replace all 3 odds are we gonna swing and miss on at least two... possible dark times ahead...

Are we not already in dark times? We've missed the playoffs 3 of 4 years, our salary cap is in rough shape, and our defense is busted. We are a below average team now... sure, it could got a lot worse, absolutely. Replacing the big 3 is risky, but staying the course is even more risky, in my opinion. You risk repeating the cycle of going 7-10 / 8-9 over and over again... which is something no fan should want.

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Nice for Cousins, though... Jan 3, 2022 22:15:43 GMT -6 via Tapatalk Funkytown likes this

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Post by pinfante79 on Jan 3, 2022 22:15:43 GMT -6

Jan 3, 2022 22:11:09 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Jan 3, 2022 22:01:00 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Maybe but the 2017 team and 2018 team were a world of difference. A much tougher schedule, a much worse OL, a terrible OC.

If we really were the 2nd best team in the conference, how does a tougher schedule and one bad coach knock us down 5 wins? DeFilippo was incompetent, but wouldn't it be nice to have a QB who could overcome that? Especially when the OC's plan was to go pass-heavy... with the highest paid QB in football...

Jan 3, 2022 22:01:00 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Like iv said, people are likely to get what they asked for and I can see things getting pretty bad until we find the next QB. I just hope I'm not 57 when we do if it takes another 15 years...

I honestly have almost no idea where to go with this team. I'm just disgusted. I just never wanna hear "all we need is above avg or steady QB play"... grass is always greener....

If we literally try to replace all 3 odds are we gonna swing and miss on at least two... possible dark times ahead...

Are we not already in dark times? We've missed the playoffs 3 of 4 years, our salary cap is in rough shape, and our defense is busted. We are a below average team now... sure, it could got a lot worse, absolutely. Replacing the big 3 is risky, but staying the course is even more risky, in my opinion. You risk repeating the cycle of going 7-10 / 8-9 over and over again... which is something no fan should want.

Talking about 2019 not 2018... Which I think you can say is fair since we beat the 13 win Saints and played San Fran better than Green Bay did the following week. Plus 2019 was the best version of Dalvin we have seen. Prob choked away a few in the regular season like all Vikings teams do. Kirk Cousins is not the reason we regressed in 2018 is all I'm saying. Kinda a fools/simpleton type argument...

And secondly I'd let a new coach take a stab with Kirk and this offense before I try to find a new QB....

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Nice for Cousins, though... Jan 4, 2022 2:24:47 GMT -6 Norse likes this

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Post by Minniman on Jan 4, 2022 2:24:47 GMT -6

Jan 3, 2022 15:13:06 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Jan 3, 2022 12:50:17 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Extend Kirk but the dude needs to realize he ain't worth 40mil.

30mil is fair value especially as the cap will rise. 25mil and he's a great team player. 35mil and above and peace out bro, we'll figure it out...

QB hell for 15 years minus the one year of Favre was brutal. And it would of been way worse if not for Adrian Peterson running through 8 in the box regularly...

Dalvin is great but he ain't no Adrian. Put Kirk on those teams Adrian had and he has every rushing record ever. Dude got no help most of his time here. The passing game was straight balls...

Better watch out guys. It is either Kirk Cousins or Sean Mannion. NO other options.

Any NFL GM and head coach that sets up their QB situation that way should be fired!

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Nice for Cousins, though... Jan 4, 2022 2:29:21 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

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Post by Minniman on Jan 4, 2022 2:29:21 GMT -6

Jan 3, 2022 22:15:43 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Jan 3, 2022 22:11:09 GMT -6 Danchat said:

If we really were the 2nd best team in the conference, how does a tougher schedule and one bad coach knock us down 5 wins? DeFilippo was incompetent, but wouldn't it be nice to have a QB who could overcome that? Especially when the OC's plan was to go pass-heavy... with the highest paid QB in football...

Are we not already in dark times? We've missed the playoffs 3 of 4 years, our salary cap is in rough shape, and our defense is busted. We are a below average team now... sure, it could got a lot worse, absolutely. Replacing the big 3 is risky, but staying the course is even more risky, in my opinion. You risk repeating the cycle of going 7-10 / 8-9 over and over again... which is something no fan should want.

Talking about 2019 not 2018... Which I think you can say is fair since we beat the 13 win Saints and played San Fran better than Green Bay did the following week. Plus 2019 was the best version of Dalvin we have seen. Prob choked away a few in the regular season like all Vikings teams do. Kirk Cousins is not the reason we regressed in 2018 is all I'm saying. Kinda a fools/simpleton type argument...

Please post Cousins sack\fumble stats vs Case Keenum and then say that with a straight face. Keenum did more with less. He wasn't great, but he knew how to get the ball out. Many football fans underestimate the importance of quick reads and a snappy throw.

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Nice for Cousins, though... Jan 4, 2022 7:44:06 GMT -6 Reignman, Funkytown, and 1 more like this

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Post by whoskmoon on Jan 4, 2022 7:44:06 GMT -6

Jan 3, 2022 22:01:00 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Jan 3, 2022 21:52:30 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Well, Cousins joined a SB caliber team and got it from 13-3 to 8-7-1, Stafford has the Rams at 12-4 after going 10-6 last year. Winning solves everything and deflects criticism. People would shut up about Kirk if we were more winning games.

Maybe but the 2017 team and 2018 team were a world of difference. A much tougher schedule, a much worse OL, a terrible OC.

2017 Strength of Schedule: 18th most difficult in team history

2018 Strength of Schedule: 43rd most difficult. 2019 was 46th.

www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min/index.htm

2017 Oline: Case Keenum was the 3rd most pressured QB in the NFL

2018 Oline: Kirk Cousins was the 5th most pressured QB in the NFL

Case ran into pressure more than Kirk in 2017, but got rid of the ball faster.

The great OC Keenum had is about to get fired for the 2nd time since leaving the Vikings.

You also forgot to mention in 2018 the Vikings had a top 5 RB return who was unavailable for most of 2017.

The 2019 team is the one that under achieved. I really feel we were the 2nd best team in the conference, we just ran into the best one on their turf.

The 2019 team over achieved. They beat 1 playoff team during the regular season and that was the 9-7 Eagles team that only made the playoffs because their division sucked. Zimmer then shutdown NO for most of the game to keep the Vikings in it until overtime, where a coin flip decided we got the ball first. They were top four in the conference, top 6-8 overall.

We signed Kirk Cousins after being one of the best teams in the NFL and only made the playoffs once in the 4 seasons since.

Jor-El is right, he lucked out missing this game and if the GM knows what he is doing the Vikings might have lucked out too. Avoiding Cousins failing once again in a spot where the team desperately needs a win keeps his trade value up. If he has ANY trade value at this point.

Last Edit: Jan 4, 2022 7:44:42 GMT -6 by whoskmoon

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Nice for Cousins, though... Jan 4, 2022 8:09:21 GMT -6 Minniman and suncoastvike like this

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on Jan 4, 2022 8:09:21 GMT -6

Jan 4, 2022 2:29:21 GMT -6 Minniman said:

Jan 3, 2022 22:15:43 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Talking about 2019 not 2018... Which I think you can say is fair since we beat the 13 win Saints and played San Fran better than Green Bay did the following week. Plus 2019 was the best version of Dalvin we have seen. Prob choked away a few in the regular season like all Vikings teams do. Kirk Cousins is not the reason we regressed in 2018 is all I'm saying. Kinda a fools/simpleton type argument...

Please post Cousins sack\fumble stats vs Case Keenum and then say that with a straight face. Keenum did more with less. He wasn't great, but he knew how to get the ball out. Many football fans underestimate the importance of quick reads and a snappy throw.

I'm not sure his line was significantly better either. Keenum was a master of ducking out of pressure to buy an extra second to make a throw. Cousins (who admittedly has improved in this area) took a lot more sacks in that situation.

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Nice for Cousins, though... Jan 4, 2022 9:50:50 GMT -6 via Tapatalk Funkytown and andhesloose28 like this

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Post by pinfante79 on Jan 4, 2022 9:50:50 GMT -6

Anyone who thinks Case Keenum is better than Kirk Cousins is not a serious person anyone should even engage conversation with.

What iv found hilarious about this place in my time here are you can literally find some cherry picked stat and repost it and think you prove a point. There is a stat to prove every point anyone ever wants to make about anything. Even the planet being flat... 😂😂😂

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Nice for Cousins, though... Jan 4, 2022 10:05:09 GMT -6 Funkytown, Danchat, and 1 more like this

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Post by andhesloose28 on Jan 4, 2022 10:05:09 GMT -6

Jan 4, 2022 9:50:50 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Anyone who thinks Case Keenum is better than Kirk Cousins is not a serious person anyone should even engage conversation with.

What iv found hilarious about this place in my time here are you can literally find some cherry picked stat and repost it and think you prove a point. There is a stat to prove every point anyone ever wants to make about anything. Even the planet being flat... 😂😂😂

Its clear Kirk is a better QB than Case its not really a debate. I think it can also be true that Case was a better fit for this team in 2018 with a make shift Oline and cheaper salary. Case and the Vikings had a fluke year where everything went right that was our shot to get it done. I dont believe Case or that Viking team wouldve repeated that magic the next year regardless. Its not really a clear cut situation and I think Zim was actually right in his belief that Kirk wasnt the best fit for how this team was built. Here we are now actually trying to build a team around Kirk and our defense is trash now and washed up lol this is why I also come back to the belief that Rick/Zim/Kirk need to all be gone from the Vikings.

Last Edit: Jan 4, 2022 10:07:39 GMT -6 by andhesloose28

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Nice for Cousins, though... Jan 4, 2022 10:08:21 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by pinfante79 on Jan 4, 2022 10:08:21 GMT -6

Jan 4, 2022 10:05:09 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

Jan 4, 2022 9:50:50 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Anyone who thinks Case Keenum is better than Kirk Cousins is not a serious person anyone should even engage conversation with.

What iv found hilarious about this place in my time here are you can literally find some cherry picked stat and repost it and think you prove a point. There is a stat to prove every point anyone ever wants to make about anything. Even the planet being flat... 😂😂😂

Its clear Kirk is a better QB than Case its not really a debate. I think it can also be true that Case was a better fit for this team in 2018 with a make shift Oline and cheaper salary. Case and the Vikings had a fluke year where everything went right that was our shot to get it done I dont believe Case or that Viking team wouldve repeated that magic the next year regardless. Its not really a clear cut situation and I think Zim was actually right in his belief that Kirk wasnt the best fit for how this team was built. Here we are now actually trying to build a team around Kirk and our defense is trash now and washed up lol this is why I also come back to the belief that Rick/Zim/Kirk need to all be gone from the Vikings.

I literally have no idea what to do with this team. I've actually now found myself opinionless... I'd rather keep Kirk at the right price. Cuz the only thing I'll guarantee is we will mess up two of the three if we try to replace all three at once. We're headed to very very dark times.

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Nice for Cousins, though... Jan 4, 2022 10:09:37 GMT -6 andhesloose28 likes this

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Post by suncoastvike on Jan 4, 2022 10:09:37 GMT -6

Jan 4, 2022 9:50:50 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Anyone who thinks Case Keenum is better than Kirk Cousins is not a serious person anyone should even engage conversation with.

What iv found hilarious about this place in my time here are you can literally find some cherry picked stat and repost it and think you prove a point. There is a stat to prove every point anyone ever wants to make about anything. Even the planet being flat... 😂😂😂

I think the case being made for Case was he was better at moving away from trouble not that he was more accurate or better arm. His duck and run ability made a bad Oline more efficient. I think we can have a conversation about if Case had better pocket awareness. The thing I liked about Case was he alway tried going forward. Side step then step up. Kirk backpedals always, to the point not throwing it away is a huge sack.

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Nice for Cousins, though... Jan 4, 2022 10:10:24 GMT -6 via mobile Funkytown, Danchat, and 1 more like this

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Post by James on Jan 4, 2022 10:10:24 GMT -6

I can see both sides, on one end you wanna stick with Cousins because there will be no better options available for us at QB. On the other end, Cousins takes up a lot of cap space. Cousins is good but I still think he’s overvalued. I still think we can win with a lesser talented/experienced QB than Cousins, because their contract would be more team friendly.

I person prefer the latter because I don’t think we will ever be able to surround Cousins with all the weapons and protection he needs. He also needs a better OC. He’s better off on a team that’s just a QB away from being serious contenders. That window for us has closed. I honestly thought we would let Cousins go after his 3 year contract was up because that was legit our only window to do anything because we still had the team intact before contracts started expiring and cap room being an issue.

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Nice for Cousins, though... Jan 4, 2022 10:13:43 GMT -6 suncoastvike likes this

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Post by Jor-El on Jan 4, 2022 10:13:43 GMT -6

Jan 4, 2022 7:44:06 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

The 2019 team over achieved. They beat 1 playoff team during the regular season and that was the 9-7 Eagles team that only made the playoffs because their division sucked. Zimmer then shutdown NO for most of the game to keep the Vikings in it until overtime, where a coin flip decided we got the ball first. They were top four in the conference, top 6-8 overall.

I think you mean they over-achieved in the playoff win over the Saints? Because, in line with your comment about their schedule strength (46th), they just fattened up on weak teams to look above-average. But their chance to be a truly strong team happened in week 15 when they faced the Packers and could have moved into a tie for the division lead (we were 10-4, they were 11-3 before the game). What happened then? Same as last Sunday - we were routed on national TV (at home, though, even worse).

pinfante79, How do you say the 2019 team was great if they didn't answer the bell in a situation like that - home game against their division rival with a chance at the division lead? So they managed a win in New Orleans - Payton was taking them for granted and Zimmer actually woke up because he was afraid of getting fired.

IMO there was nothing impressive about 2019. The decent 10-win record was a mirage and an anomaly within the last 4 years.

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Nice for Cousins, though... Jan 4, 2022 10:15:14 GMT -6 via Tapatalk Funkytown likes this

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Post by pinfante79 on Jan 4, 2022 10:15:14 GMT -6

Jan 4, 2022 10:13:43 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

Jan 4, 2022 7:44:06 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

The 2019 team over achieved. They beat 1 playoff team during the regular season and that was the 9-7 Eagles team that only made the playoffs because their division sucked. Zimmer then shutdown NO for most of the game to keep the Vikings in it until overtime, where a coin flip decided we got the ball first. They were top four in the conference, top 6-8 overall.

I think you mean they over-achieved in the playoff win over the Saints? Because, in line with your comment about their schedule strength (46th), they just fattened up on weak teams to look above-average. But their chance to be a truly strong team happened in week 15 when they faced the Packers and could have moved into a tie for the division lead (we were 10-4, they were 11-3 before the game). What happened then? Same as last Sunday - we were routed on national TV (at home, though, even worse).

pinfante79, How do you say the 2019 team was great if they didn't answer the bell in a situation like that - home game against their division rival with a chance at the division lead? So they managed a win in New Orleans - Payton was taking them for granted and Zimmer actually woke up because he was afraid of getting fired.

IMO there was nothing impressive about 2019. The decent 10-win record was a mirage and an anomaly within the last 4 years.

I don't think I said great. I said 2nd best team in the conference. Not a great conference that year. It was a regular season that we under achieved. We lost games We should have won. But when you're the Minnesota Vikings that's what you do...

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andhesloose28
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Nice for Cousins, though... Jan 4, 2022 10:24:56 GMT -6

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Post by andhesloose28 on Jan 4, 2022 10:24:56 GMT -6

Jan 4, 2022 10:13:43 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

Jan 4, 2022 7:44:06 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

The 2019 team over achieved. They beat 1 playoff team during the regular season and that was the 9-7 Eagles team that only made the playoffs because their division sucked. Zimmer then shutdown NO for most of the game to keep the Vikings in it until overtime, where a coin flip decided we got the ball first. They were top four in the conference, top 6-8 overall.

I think you mean they over-achieved in the playoff win over the Saints? Because, in line with your comment about their schedule strength (46th), they just fattened up on weak teams to look above-average. But their chance to be a truly strong team happened in week 15 when they faced the Packers and could have moved into a tie for the division lead (we were 10-4, they were 11-3 before the game). What happened then? Same as last Sunday - we were routed on national TV (at home, though, even worse).

pinfante79 , How do you say the 2019 team was great if they didn't answer the bell in a situation like that - home game against their division rival with a chance at the division lead? So they managed a win in New Orleans - Payton was taking them for granted and Zimmer actually woke up because he was afraid of getting fired.

IMO there was nothing impressive about 2019. The decent 10-win record was a mirage and an anomaly within the last 4 years.

That Vikings team wasnt bad it just had no physicality at the line on both sides of the ball, but like you said got totally dominated that monday night game with a chance at the division. The Niners were also a very good team that year and miles ahead of everyone else, which should've showed us how far we really were from a true contender. But then we reward Kirk and Zim with extensions?

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Nice for Cousins, though... Jan 4, 2022 10:27:22 GMT -6 pinfante79 likes this

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Post by andhesloose28 on Jan 4, 2022 10:27:22 GMT -6

Jan 4, 2022 10:08:21 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Jan 4, 2022 10:05:09 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

Its clear Kirk is a better QB than Case its not really a debate. I think it can also be true that Case was a better fit for this team in 2018 with a make shift Oline and cheaper salary. Case and the Vikings had a fluke year where everything went right that was our shot to get it done I dont believe Case or that Viking team wouldve repeated that magic the next year regardless. Its not really a clear cut situation and I think Zim was actually right in his belief that Kirk wasnt the best fit for how this team was built. Here we are now actually trying to build a team around Kirk and our defense is trash now and washed up lol this is why I also come back to the belief that Rick/Zim/Kirk need to all be gone from the Vikings.

I literally have no idea what to do with this team. I've actually now found myself opinionless... I'd rather keep Kirk at the right price. Cuz the only thing I'll guarantee is we will mess up two of the three if we try to replace all three at once. We're headed to very very dark times.

If with ya I really dont know what I would do if I was the Wilfs. I wouldnt mind Kirk back at a cheap price which for me would be 25 million a year. He owes the Vikings nothing to take this deal and I dont expect him to. But in my opinion that is the price if he wants to show he really wants to be the one to bring the Vikings a lombardi trophy.