Kirk Cousins: A Career of Ineptitude

dauntessmallhands
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Kirk Cousins: A Career of Ineptitude Sept 22, 2022 19:18:55 GMT -6

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Post by dauntessmallhands on Sept 22, 2022 19:18:55 GMT -6

Sept 22, 2022 17:03:07 GMT -6 mikenessfan said:

When you get to the root of what has a lot of kirkstans supporting keeping him around and not wanting to replace him it is really pretty straight forward why. And I know this for a few of them I have talked to Because after arguing with them for awhile they flat out admitted it. That reason is because they don’t think we can ever find a franchise qb in the draft and therefor don’t want to go the rebuild route and finding a qb in the draft. They want to go the safe route and keep hoping his stripes will change at some point or that somehow the gm will put up better talent all around him. Which when pealing the layers off all that goes to show kirk is not the kind of qb that can lead you to the promise land.

It's not that I don't think we can, but it's proven to be a really really difficult thing to do. Even finding someone who's as good as Kirk but on the cheap. So I can live with what they tried this year even though I would have been fine with scrapping it. But if it doesn't work this year then time to move on as much as possible. Problem is that they're kind of set up from a cap standpoint to do it for two years.

mikenessfan
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Kirk Cousins: A Career of Ineptitude Sept 22, 2022 20:20:22 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by mikenessfan on Sept 22, 2022 20:20:22 GMT -6

Sept 22, 2022 19:18:55 GMT -6 dauntessmallhands said:

Sept 22, 2022 17:03:07 GMT -6 mikenessfan said:

When you get to the root of what has a lot of kirkstans supporting keeping him around and not wanting to replace him it is really pretty straight forward why. And I know this for a few of them I have talked to Because after arguing with them for awhile they flat out admitted it. That reason is because they don’t think we can ever find a franchise qb in the draft and therefor don’t want to go the rebuild route and finding a qb in the draft. They want to go the safe route and keep hoping his stripes will change at some point or that somehow the gm will put up better talent all around him. Which when pealing the layers off all that goes to show kirk is not the kind of qb that can lead you to the promise land.

It's not that I don't think we can, but it's proven to be a really really difficult thing to do. Even finding someone who's as good as Kirk but on the cheap. So I can live with what they tried this year even though I would have been fine with scrapping it. But if it doesn't work this year then time to move on as much as possible. Problem is that they're kind of set up from a cap standpoint to do it for two years.

Well you will never ever get one if you don’t try and that is a reality. And there are ways to make sure you are hedging your bets on making sure you do all you can on a prospect. Like scout the sh!t out of him and make sure your scouts have a strength in scouting qbs. Then after researching and doing a lot of analyzing between the scouts and the coaches and if they decide he is the guy you do what you have to do to get that guy. If that means trading up and giving up future draft picks well unfortunately that’s the price you pay because you originally decided to do a competitive rebuild which means you aren’t going to be too bad. Then once you get that guy make sure you have the right coaches to develop him with a plan to develop him and design schemes around his strengths. Basically do everything you can to ensure you squeeze every ounce of opportunity to ensure you got the right guy and are developing him the right way. If you do that there should be a far better chance he succeeds than fails. Oh yeah make sure you have at least a couple of legit weapons for him. Luckily we already have the best wr in the nfl who is really young.

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Kirk Cousins: A Career of Ineptitude Sept 22, 2022 20:27:48 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by Raptorman on Sept 22, 2022 20:27:48 GMT -6

Sept 22, 2022 13:59:11 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

Sept 21, 2022 17:57:49 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Does Staffird win one if he stays in Detroit? No. Does Brady. Win even in Detroit? No.

No, it's obvious football is not an individual sport and the QB needs a team. But that Stafford/Detroit example is very unfair because it's a case of extremes. The Lions have been one of the most inept NFL teams over the entire course of Stafford's career (and beyond). No, Brady could not rescue them, neither could Joe Montana or Johnny Unitas. They won 8 games over Stafford's last two seasons in Detroit, and they might have won 0 without him. A QB alone can't lift a team that's "abysmal".

But: Brady DID lift a team, the Bucs, from "mediocre". 7-9 the year before Brady is not ineptitude, it's mediocre (and that was with Jameis throwing 30 INTs). In the 2 years before getting Stafford, the Rams were 9-7 and 10-6; that's pretty squarely in the range of Zimmer mediocrity, isn't it? So, were the Vikings teams which surrounded Cousins the last 4 years abysmal, or just mediocre?

The last two Super Bowls have been won by teams which jumped out of mediocrity with a QB that lifted them. The Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson Super Bowls are now 20 years ago. Which model do we think is relevant now?

Brady did not lift the Bucs. Move on for that myth.

You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.

idavike Veteran Posts: 1,338 Likes: 914	Kirk Cousins: A Career of Ineptitude Sept 22, 2022 20:32:48 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by idavike on Sept 22, 2022 20:32:48 GMT -6 Maybe the biggest reason the Vikings will never win a Super Bowl with Kirk is simple... It's a night game and it's impossible for him to play the Bears in a SB.
	Last Edit: Sept 22, 2022 20:33:24 GMT -6 by idavike

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Kirk Cousins: A Career of Ineptitude Sept 22, 2022 20:34:10 GMT -6 via mobile idavike likes this

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Post by mikenessfan on Sept 22, 2022 20:34:10 GMT -6

Sept 22, 2022 20:32:48 GMT -6 idavike said:

Maybe the biggest reason the Vikings will never win a Super Bowl with Kirk is simple... It's a night game and it's impossible for him to play the Bears in a SB.

Lmao the most logical thing anyone has said in this topic.

idavike Veteran Posts: 1,338 Likes: 914	Kirk Cousins: A Career of Ineptitude Sept 22, 2022 20:37:02 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by idavike on Sept 22, 2022 20:37:02 GMT -6 your welcome

Danchat Content Creator Posts: 19,030 Likes: 16,618	Kirk Cousins: A Career of Ineptitude Sept 22, 2022 22:03:46 GMT -6 ocampo82, comet52, and 2 more like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Danchat on Sept 22, 2022 22:03:46 GMT -6 Sept 22, 2022 20:27:48 GMT -6 Raptorman said: Brady did not lift the Bucs. Move on for that myth. Oh, that's a funny one, unless that wasn't sarcasm!

dauntessmallhands
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Kirk Cousins: A Career of Ineptitude Sept 22, 2022 22:31:43 GMT -6

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Post by dauntessmallhands on Sept 22, 2022 22:31:43 GMT -6

Sept 22, 2022 20:20:22 GMT -6 mikenessfan said:

Well you will never ever get one if you don’t try and that is a reality. And there are ways to make sure you are hedging your bets on making sure you do all you can on a prospect. Like scout the sh!t out of him and make sure your scouts have a strength in scouting qbs. Then after researching and doing a lot of analyzing between the scouts and the coaches and if they decide he is the guy you do what you have to do to get that guy. If that means trading up and giving up future draft picks well unfortunately that’s the price you pay because you originally decided to do a competitive rebuild which means you aren’t going to be too bad. Then once you get that guy make sure you have the right coaches to develop him with a plan to develop him and design schemes around his strengths. Basically do everything you can to ensure you squeeze every ounce of opportunity to ensure you got the right guy and are developing him the right way. If you do that there should be a far better chance he succeeds than fails. Oh yeah make sure you have at least a couple of legit weapons for him. Luckily we already have the best wr in the nfl who is really young.

every team in the NFL think they know how to do all the stuff you mentioned. Yet a lot of them (most) still fail. It's not that simple. People who do NFL stuff for a living get it wrong all the time. For every Herbert or Hurts or Allen there are several Mayfields and Rosens and Darnolds, and Daniel Joness and Hoskins and Loves and Trubiskys and Wentz and Goff. And each time you get it wrong, you have to wait about three years before you try the next one. There are maybe 10 QBs that fit the description of what people would accept as their QBOTF. Spanning more than 15 years of drafts. That's 2 out of every 3 years. With probably about 10 teams looking for one at any given point.

Sorry, but you can't just say 'scout and develop' extra extra good and then snap your fingers like there's a magic recipe. Doesn't change how I feel about Kirk, but it does change how I prefer to watch my team play for the next 5-10 years.

andhesloose28
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Kirk Cousins: A Career of Ineptitude Sept 23, 2022 7:33:56 GMT -6 suncoastvike likes this

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Post by andhesloose28 on Sept 23, 2022 7:33:56 GMT -6

Sept 22, 2022 15:19:16 GMT -6 suncoastvike said:

Sept 22, 2022 15:02:19 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

Technically yes Kirk will be here 99% next year, but in general I do believe it is a 1 year trial. They wont keep doubling down is my point like the old regime. Realistically they didnt even really go "all in" this year. Zadarius is making peanuts for his play (so far). They didnt sign any other big free agents to big deals. The books will clear in 2023 I believe we will have a lot of cap space. The key is hitting the draft picks. Like they have said all along about it being a competitive rebuild. Harry and Thielen wont be here when the time comes to make that transition. The key is the draft, you have to start hitting on these guys. It really doesnt matter when you take that new QB in the draft, Id rather that be when the rest of the team is ready to go for it all. 2024 will likely be that time anyway.

The problem is if you really feel 2024 is the target year they could have done that by biting the bullet now. 2024 might have only been the competitive emergence year and 2025 the true contender season. With your new core in years 2 - 4. If we have the right group making decisions now.
As to one year trial or signing guys. This year was just a continuous of the previous 3. Limited by cap to just picking up one year rentals on the cheap and hoping to not need to get too far into the depth for too long or it's another lost year. We haven't had a build for the future mentality since we got so close in 2017. I my opinion.
Every year since it feels more like "all in" but only got in once.

I do get it, trust me I was all aboard starting this thing over. But I still do believe with Kevin running the show this team can contend in the NFC this year so I get why they didnt. And at the same time I think they could still rebuild this thing in the mean time. You have to hit starters in these drafts. Go back and look at 2016-2021 drafts, not one legit defensive starter. That can happen.

But anyway how about this, if you got rid of Kirk, Harry, Kendricks, Thielen, and maybe even Hunter last offseason, Would you trade JJ as well?? I mean you might as well at that point which I would be willing to do. Stack all the possible assets. I dont think ownership was willing to fully go all tank mode thats the problem.

Last Edit: Sept 23, 2022 7:36:11 GMT -6 by andhesloose28

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Kirk Cousins: A Career of Ineptitude Sept 23, 2022 7:42:17 GMT -6 oneanddone likes this

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Post by PurpleKoolaid on Sept 23, 2022 7:42:17 GMT -6

Sept 22, 2022 20:27:48 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Brady did not lift the Bucs. Move on for that myth.

Seriously? I suppose your boy Kirk was a better fit and could have gotten them to a SB win quicker right?

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Kirk Cousins: A Career of Ineptitude Sept 23, 2022 8:23:16 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by mngopher35 on Sept 23, 2022 8:23:16 GMT -6

Sept 23, 2022 7:33:56 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

Sept 22, 2022 15:19:16 GMT -6 suncoastvike said:

The problem is if you really feel 2024 is the target year they could have done that by biting the bullet now. 2024 might have only been the competitive emergence year and 2025 the true contender season. With your new core in years 2 - 4. If we have the right group making decisions now.
As to one year trial or signing guys. This year was just a continuous of the previous 3. Limited by cap to just picking up one year rentals on the cheap and hoping to not need to get too far into the depth for too long or it's another lost year. We haven't had a build for the future mentality since we got so close in 2017. I my opinion.
Every year since it feels more like "all in" but only got in once.

I do get it, trust me I was all aboard starting this thing over. But I still do believe with Kevin running the show this team can contend in the NFC this year so I get why they didnt. And at the same time I think they could still rebuild this thing in the mean time. You have to hit starters in these drafts. Go back and look at 2016-2021 drafts, not one legit defensive starter. That can happen.

But anyway how about this, if you got rid of Kirk, Harry, Kendricks, Thielen, and maybe even Hunter last offseason, Would you trade JJ as well?? I mean you might as well at that point which I would be willing to do. Stack all the possible assets. I dont think ownership was willing to fully go all tank mode thats the problem.

I wouldn’t have traded JJ, the older vets sure but he could easily be elite still in a couple years as we develop our young qb that route ends up in. He has to go through a down year then a year of rookie qb play most likely but the hope from there is that we are building a contender while said qb is on that rookie deal and paying JJ is a great way to help that young qb out (should have plenty of cap with no QB salary too). With how valuable wrs have become in today’s game I don’t think you just move on from a top one that’s this young even through a rebuild. I would agree on most vets being possible to move on from but not him or some other guys on rookie deals probably.

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Kirk Cousins: A Career of Ineptitude Sept 23, 2022 9:51:24 GMT -6 mngopher35 likes this

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Post by suncoastvike on Sept 23, 2022 9:51:24 GMT -6

Sept 23, 2022 7:33:56 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

Sept 22, 2022 15:19:16 GMT -6 suncoastvike said:

The problem is if you really feel 2024 is the target year they could have done that by biting the bullet now. 2024 might have only been the competitive emergence year and 2025 the true contender season. With your new core in years 2 - 4. If we have the right group making decisions now.
As to one year trial or signing guys. This year was just a continuous of the previous 3. Limited by cap to just picking up one year rentals on the cheap and hoping to not need to get too far into the depth for too long or it's another lost year. We haven't had a build for the future mentality since we got so close in 2017. I my opinion.
Every year since it feels more like "all in" but only got in once.

I do get it, trust me I was all aboard starting this thing over. But I still do believe with Kevin running the show this team can contend in the NFC this year so I get why they didnt. And at the same time I think they could still rebuild this thing in the mean time. You have to hit starters in these drafts. Go back and look at 2016-2021 drafts, not one legit defensive starter. That can happen.

But anyway how about this, if you got rid of Kirk, Harry, Kendricks, Thielen, and maybe even Hunter last offseason, Would you trade JJ as well?? I mean you might as well at that point which I would be willing to do. Stack all the possible assets. I dont think ownership was willing to fully go all tank mode thats the problem.

Kirk and Smith would have been enough. Maybe Hunter. I too think it is going to be better with Kevin running it but if every year you find yourself cap strapped any real contender rebuild is slowed. I view us as a fringe playoff team right now. The same view I've had for 3 years. A rebuild year would have lowered expectations and could have been fun watching and waiting. If we miss the playoffs these guys have put themselves in a bind with fans to come back with we are gonna fix this now.
Still alot of football left but I don't think our ceiling is much higher then just getting in...hopefully.

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Kirk Cousins: A Career of Ineptitude Sept 23, 2022 10:08:11 GMT -6 mngopher35 likes this

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Post by oneanddone on Sept 23, 2022 10:08:11 GMT -6

Sept 23, 2022 9:51:24 GMT -6 suncoastvike said:

Sept 23, 2022 7:33:56 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

I do get it, trust me I was all aboard starting this thing over. But I still do believe with Kevin running the show this team can contend in the NFC this year so I get why they didnt. And at the same time I think they could still rebuild this thing in the mean time. You have to hit starters in these drafts. Go back and look at 2016-2021 drafts, not one legit defensive starter. That can happen.

But anyway how about this, if you got rid of Kirk, Harry, Kendricks, Thielen, and maybe even Hunter last offseason, Would you trade JJ as well?? I mean you might as well at that point which I would be willing to do. Stack all the possible assets. I dont think ownership was willing to fully go all tank mode thats the problem.

Kirk and Smith would have been enough. Maybe Hunter. I too think it is going to be better with Kevin running it but if every year you find yourself cap strapped any real contender rebuild is slowed. I view us as a fringe playoff team right now. The same view I've had for 3 years. A rebuild year would have lowered expectations and could have been fun watching and waiting. If we miss the playoffs these guys have put themselves in a bind with fans to come back with we are gonna fix this now.
Still alot of football left but I don't think our ceiling is much higher then just getting in...hopefully.

In fact with this group I would have much rather done a bigger rebuild to give a coach some breathing room. With what they did this off season was to basically say they are a only couple players away from contending. In my mind its either playoffs or bust. That's a lot of pressure to put on the coaching staff with this group.

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Kirk Cousins: A Career of Ineptitude Sept 23, 2022 10:17:06 GMT -6

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Post by suncoastvike on Sept 23, 2022 10:17:06 GMT -6

Sept 23, 2022 10:08:11 GMT -6 oneanddone said:

Sept 23, 2022 9:51:24 GMT -6 suncoastvike said:

Kirk and Smith would have been enough. Maybe Hunter. I too think it is going to be better with Kevin running it but if every year you find yourself cap strapped any real contender rebuild is slowed. I view us as a fringe playoff team right now. The same view I've had for 3 years. A rebuild year would have lowered expectations and could have been fun watching and waiting. If we miss the playoffs these guys have put themselves in a bind with fans to come back with we are gonna fix this now.
Still alot of football left but I don't think our ceiling is much higher then just getting in...hopefully.

In fact with this group I would have much rather done a bigger rebuild to give a coach some breathing room. With what they did this off season was to basically say they are a only couple players away from contending. In my mind its either playoffs or bust. That's a lot of pressure to put on the coaching staff with this group.

agree. I think as andhesloose28 was stating ownership was less ready to give up on the hope their guys were still elite. They stole the honeymoon period with a shotgun marriage. This is a rookie HC after all.

Last Edit: Sept 23, 2022 10:18:43 GMT -6 by suncoastvike

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Kirk Cousins: A Career of Ineptitude Sept 23, 2022 12:23:14 GMT -6

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Post by Jor-El on Sept 23, 2022 12:23:14 GMT -6

Sept 22, 2022 20:20:22 GMT -6 mikenessfan said:

Sept 22, 2022 19:18:55 GMT -6 dauntessmallhands said:

It's not that I don't think we can, but it's proven to be a really really difficult thing to do. Even finding someone who's as good as Kirk but on the cheap. So I can live with what they tried this year even though I would have been fine with scrapping it. But if it doesn't work this year then time to move on as much as possible. Problem is that they're kind of set up from a cap standpoint to do it for two years.

Well you will never ever get one if you don’t try and that is a reality. And there are ways to make sure you are hedging your bets on making sure you do all you can on a prospect. Like scout the sh!t out of him and make sure your scouts have a strength in scouting qbs. Then after researching and doing a lot of analyzing between the scouts and the coaches and if they decide he is the guy you do what you have to do to get that guy. If that means trading up and giving up future draft picks well unfortunately that’s the price you pay because you originally decided to do a competitive rebuild which means you aren’t going to be too bad. Then once you get that guy make sure you have the right coaches to develop him with a plan to develop him and design schemes around his strengths. Basically do everything you can to ensure you squeeze every ounce of opportunity to ensure you got the right guy and are developing him the right way. If you do that there should be a far better chance he succeeds than fails. Oh yeah make sure you have at least a couple of legit weapons for him. Luckily we already have the best wr in the nfl who is really young.

Sure, it's hard to draft a franchise QB - but it is possible. I count 11 teams with starters which they drafted that have been or likely to be multi-year starters. I'm not counting recent draftees who are still uncertain: Trevor Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Kenny Pickett, Justin Fields, Daniel Jones, Trey Lance, Malik Willis, Davis Mills. A couple of those will hit and raise the number. Point is, a third of the league drafts a long-term starting QB.

IMO the real problem for fans (and maybe ownership) is that the Vikings NEVER have. Joe Kapp was a CFL import already 29 years old when he got to us. Yes, we drafted Tarkenton - but traded him away and had to trade to reacquire him before his Super Bowl runs. Tommy Kramer was a borderline "franchise QB" but that's in doubt to many fans. The Burns years were marked by fading Kramer and guys like Steve Dils and Wade Wilson.

Then we reach the Denny Green era, which is our offensive heyday, but we achieved it with a series of castoffs: Jim McMahon, Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham, Jeff George. I suspect this stretch is to blame for many fans thinking, "Great offense doesn't require drafting a QB." Then Denny drafted Culpepper, and results were....mixed. (And we picked him instead of Jevon Kearse, when we needed a pass-rusher but not a QB.) After Daunte, we had 7 journeyman starters in 3 years. Disappointing years...but then we had a great season with a retread named Favre. After Favre, we drafted 2 first-round QBs who failed. By then our GM had given up drafting QBs and went after Stafford and then Cousins.

The Vikings have been to 10 NFCCGs - and only in 1 of them was our starting QB acquired directly through the draft. That single occurrence was 41-Donut in 2000 with Culpepper starting.

So why would fans of this team believe in drafting a QB?? Is there any other team in the NFL that has never drafted an unquestionably-great quarterback?