Trade for Sam Darnold?

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Trade for Sam Darnold? Mar 30, 2021 11:15:45 GMT -6

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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2021 11:15:45 GMT -6

Mar 30, 2021 10:44:05 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Mar 30, 2021 10:23:43 GMT -6 @justmy2cents said:

Not disputing Mahomes as a talent. Reid though has turned water into wine before. Kevin Kolb, AJ Feeley both sucked and he made them look decent and got draft picks for them, even Alex Smith was bust material and he turned his career around. Yes Mahomes got him over the hump, but let's not act like Andy Reid teams haven't been damn good many times. McNabb took them there. It was mutual Reid needed a great to finally win one but he had gotten there and had a great chance to win without Mahomes once. We will never know but I think how Reid handled him by not starting him early and building the team around his strengths, allowed Mahomes to reach his potential. The potential he was blessed with, but was helped realized by how Reid approached it. Many guys come into this league with talent some never find it. Coaching is key for QBs IMO.

Coaching is huge, I won't dispute that, but I think Mahomes is the kind of talent who would have been great no matter the team he was on and in the same category as Brady, Rodgers and Wilson. Watson too if he ever plays in the NFL again.

Whosk, the only reason I say that about Mahomes is.. Remember when he came out he had no experience under center and was raw. Sorry teams would have put him out there early and if you lose your confidence playing when you not ready it can have lasting effects. Instead Reid took him molded him, helped him learn all the intangibles of the position. Doing film work studying under Reid and Alex. Fixing his flaws so he could come out and let his talent flourish when it was time.

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Trade for Sam Darnold? Mar 30, 2021 11:25:27 GMT -6

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Post by vikingpwr on Mar 30, 2021 11:25:27 GMT -6

Mar 30, 2021 6:41:28 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Playing poorly on a bad team is not evidence that a QB is good, yet too often people use it like it is.

I don't believe he has played that poorly. You sound set in your analysis of Sam Darnold and I politely disagree.

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Trade for Sam Darnold? Mar 30, 2021 11:47:01 GMT -6

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Post by vikingpwr on Mar 30, 2021 11:47:01 GMT -6

Mar 30, 2021 11:10:34 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

I think you guys have a really interesting debate about Mahomes. I fall into the thinking by Drank that he has been in the right situation. Would he have excelled, and as quickly, playing for the Jets? Hard to say, but Mahomes entered the NFL in a pretty damn unique situation: a top 10 draft pick joining a team that just had 5 straight winning seasons, double digit wins the last 3. I can't think of another QB who was literally "the last piece of the puzzle".

The Kansas City Chiefs made the playoffs in 2015, 2016, 2017 with Alex Smith at QB. Pat Mahomes took over a playoff team.

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Trade for Sam Darnold? Mar 30, 2021 11:53:50 GMT -6

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Post by Nordic on Mar 30, 2021 11:53:50 GMT -6

Mar 30, 2021 11:47:01 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Mar 30, 2021 11:10:34 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

I think you guys have a really interesting debate about Mahomes. I fall into the thinking by Drank that he has been in the right situation. Would he have excelled, and as quickly, playing for the Jets? Hard to say, but Mahomes entered the NFL in a pretty damn unique situation: a top 10 draft pick joining a team that just had 5 straight winning seasons, double digit wins the last 3. I can't think of another QB who was literally "the last piece of the puzzle".

The Kansas City Chiefs made the playoffs in 2015, 2016, 2017 with Alex Smith at QB. Pat Mahomes took over a playoff team.

This.......

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Trade for Sam Darnold? Mar 30, 2021 12:09:43 GMT -6 Jor-El likes this

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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2021 12:09:43 GMT -6

Mar 30, 2021 11:10:34 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

I think you guys have a really interesting debate about Mahomes. I fall into the thinking by Drank that he has been in the right situation. Would he have excelled, and as quickly, playing for the Jets? Hard to say, but Mahomes entered the NFL in a pretty damn unique situation: a top 10 draft pick joining a team that just had 5 straight winning seasons, double digit wins the last 3. I can't think of another QB who was literally "the last piece of the puzzle".

Exactly, if Texans would have taken Mahomes and then preceded to get rid of Hopkins getting washed up David Johnson, and made the O'Brien moves. I doubt it seriously if Mahomes would have a ring now. Mahomes has never lacked for talent he has two of the very best in the league. We saw without a OL him get exposed so what did KC DO? They went out and broke the bank for Thuney. Mahomes is not lacking for talent around him. KC goes above and beyond to make sure he has top notch talent around him. Talented very, but not necessarily a guy who could make any team unbeatable alone, if the coaches don't do things right around him. Lucky for him he not in a situation he has to prove he can do it on his own. Which reverts back to coaching matters. Reid is one of the most winningest coaches ever. He is the definition of QB whisperer. Mahomes helped get him across the finish line, and is the most talented QB he ever had. But it was the guidance of Reid who helped him realize his ceiling IMO!

Last Edit: Mar 30, 2021 12:13:50 GMT -6 by Deleted

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Trade for Sam Darnold? Mar 30, 2021 12:41:15 GMT -6 comet52 likes this

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Post by Jor-El on Mar 30, 2021 12:41:15 GMT -6

Mar 30, 2021 12:09:43 GMT -6 @justmy2cents said:

Reid is one of the most winningest coaches ever. He is the definition of QB whisperer. Mahomes helped get him across the finish line, and is the most talented QB he ever had. But it was the guidance of Reid who helped him realize his ceiling IMO!

...and Back to the discussion of Darnold - as I asked in an earlier post in this thread, does anyone think the Vikings have any kind of "QB Whisperer"? Even if Darnold had untapped talent, who would develop him?

Play another "what if" that's more direct: what if Mahomes had been drafted by the Vikings? That's not even such a stretch...Bridgewater gets hurt, but instead of trading for Bradford, we ride it out with Sean Hill. Maybe we lose another game or two and finish 6-10 with Hill instead of 8-8. (I know, I'm rubbing salt in some wounds...) We're in position to pick Mahomes ahead of the 10th pick in all likelihood, and in need of a QB.

So would we have a QB throwing 50 TDs in 2018, and leading us to 2 Super Bowls? Or would our coaching staff have molded him to be another version of Teddy Bridgewater, looking for the checkdown and playing it safe?

Last Edit: Mar 30, 2021 12:42:11 GMT -6 by Jor-El

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Trade for Sam Darnold? Mar 30, 2021 12:51:24 GMT -6

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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2021 12:51:24 GMT -6

Mar 30, 2021 12:41:15 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

Mar 30, 2021 12:09:43 GMT -6 @justmy2cents said:

Reid is one of the most winningest coaches ever. He is the definition of QB whisperer. Mahomes helped get him across the finish line, and is the most talented QB he ever had. But it was the guidance of Reid who helped him realize his ceiling IMO!

...and Back to the discussion of Darnold - as I asked in an earlier post in this thread, does anyone think the Vikings have any kind of "QB Whisperer"? Even if Darnold had untapped talent, who would develop him?

Play another "what if" that's more direct: what if Mahomes had been drafted by the Vikings? That's not even such a stretch...Bridgewater gets hurt, but instead of trading for Bradford, we ride it out with Sean Hill. Maybe we lose another game or two and finish 6-10 with Hill instead of 8-8. (I know, I'm rubbing salt in some wounds...) We're in position to pick Mahomes ahead of the 10th pick in all likelihood, and in need of a QB.

So would we have a QB throwing 50 TDs in 2018, and leading us to 2 Super Bowls? Or would our coaching staff have molded him to be another version of Teddy Bridgewater, looking for the checkdown and playing it safe?

Nice questions. I don't think he would have 50td season, but we do have weapons. As for Darnold after thinking about it we don't have the coaching to save him. I just remembered Kyle Van Noy and the Patriots laughing at him a few years back. Darnold said he saw ghost in the pocket, I just now remember he said that (roflmao)

. No we better pass and find a tougher minded QB who is not broken. Either Minshew, Mullens, or in the draft.

Last Edit: Mar 30, 2021 12:52:23 GMT -6 by Deleted

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Trade for Sam Darnold? Mar 30, 2021 13:26:27 GMT -6

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Post by Jor-El on Mar 30, 2021 13:26:27 GMT -6

Mar 30, 2021 12:51:24 GMT -6 @justmy2cents said:

No we better pass and find a tougher minded QB who is not broken. Either Minshew, Mullens, or in the draft.

But I'm going to give you the same question if you draft a QB: who on this staff is going to coach him through his transition to the NFL? Even Lawrence and Wilson are going to need some education, and if we get Lance or Fields, either is a very unfinished project. Double the project work needed on Book, Mond, Ehlinger, Franks. But we hire offensive coaches who understand RBs, not QBs. Our QB coach "developed" Josh Freeman, and our OC "developed" Paxton Lynch. Bridgewater had Norv and Scott Turner, with FAR more proven ability to coach a young QB.

I don't see the Vikings as an environment likely to groom a young QB to stardom.

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Trade for Sam Darnold? Mar 30, 2021 13:32:14 GMT -6

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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2021 13:32:14 GMT -6

Mar 30, 2021 13:26:27 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

Mar 30, 2021 12:51:24 GMT -6 @justmy2cents said:

No we better pass and find a tougher minded QB who is not broken. Either Minshew, Mullens, or in the draft.

But I'm going to give you the same question if you draft a QB: who on this staff is going to coach him through his transition to the NFL? Even Lawrence and Wilson are going to need some education, and if we get Lance or Fields, either is a very unfinished project. Double the project work needed on Book, Mond, Ehlinger, Franks. But we hire offensive coaches who understand RBs, not QBs. Our QB coach "developed" Josh Freeman, and our OC "developed" Paxton Lynch. Bridgewater had Norv and Scott Turner, with FAR more proven ability to coach a young QB.

I don't see the Vikings as an environment likely to groom a young QB to stardom.

Fair question, but we have to try. If they that bad at coaching they don't need to be coaching in the first place. Then I turn my attention to the Wilfs and say man hire better coaches or we are screwed. While also saying that to Rick and Zim too.

Minniman Moderator Posts: 13,640 Likes: 8,137	Trade for Sam Darnold? Mar 31, 2021 14:56:23 GMT -6 giveu1guess likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Minniman on Mar 31, 2021 14:56:23 GMT -6 Can Sam Darnold play guard?
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giveu1guess BosViking Posts: 2,598 Likes: 1,091	Trade for Sam Darnold? Mar 31, 2021 14:59:29 GMT -6 via Tapatalk Minniman likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by giveu1guess on Mar 31, 2021 14:59:29 GMT -6 Mar 31, 2021 14:56:23 GMT -6 Minniman said: Can Sam Darnold play guard? Stop being silly. We have Dozier, Cole, AND Ezra. Why would we get a guard......

Jor-El Pro Bowl Posts: 2,332 Likes: 2,788 Fan Since: 1976	Trade for Sam Darnold? Mar 31, 2021 17:13:37 GMT -6 Minniman and giveu1guess like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Jor-El on Mar 31, 2021 17:13:37 GMT -6 Mar 31, 2021 14:56:23 GMT -6 Minniman said: Can Sam Darnold play guard? He weighs 225 - might be a bit heavier than we seem to be trying to put on our OL these days..

comet52 Hall of Fame Candidate Posts: 7,080 Likes: 8,710	Trade for Sam Darnold? Mar 31, 2021 18:11:27 GMT -6 Minniman, vikingpitbull, and 1 more like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by comet52 on Mar 31, 2021 18:11:27 GMT -6 Mar 31, 2021 14:56:23 GMT -6 Minniman said: Can Sam Darnold play guard? He could probably play it better than Dakota Dozier.
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