Are we being totally fair to Cousins!

whoskmoon
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Are we being totally fair to Cousins! May 14, 2020 16:49:15 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on May 14, 2020 16:49:15 GMT -6

May 14, 2020 15:11:27 GMT -6 @purpledrankreturns said:

May 14, 2020 14:51:42 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

We are talking 30 compared to 90, not 30 compared to 500 at bats.

I get what you are saying, but to get to where Rodgers is he would have to go 30-24 against winning teams over the next 10 years. That aint happening.

He is a 1/3 of the way through a typical starters career number of starts. Are you really telling me a 1/3 of a career is not a big enough sample size?

I said 100 plate appearances not 500? It's not just about Rodgers. You have Rivers,Eli and others. If he won the Bowl who would care. Eli sucks went 32-77 his % Cousins could catch that and they got Eli as a hall of famer and Rivers. Why do you like and watch the Vikings may I ask? Is it because you live close or others around you do? I live far away and never been to Minnesota still I love the Vikings why? Because I always loved the organization what it stands for (blue collar) have to work for everything we get and the players who represent this team past, present, and future Vikings. If God told me we would never have a chance then why watch I would already know the results. I watch because I believe we can get it done and it will be glorious.Will it be this year or the next who knows but I believe it will happen when you least expect it to. That is how Vikings work when slept on we surprise. I don't mean this in no bad way so take no offense. If you however believe we have zero chance with Kirk why watch? Come back when you think we have more than a zero chance. Does that mean I guarantee or are likely to do it every year No but I never say impossible. We try our best every year I feel and that's all I ask and will be behind whoever we trot out on that field!

100 didn't make sense to me since it is a very arbitrary number. I went with the entire season of AB's since we are comparing against entire careers of QBs.

Eli was a very erratic QB with sever highs and lows. Cousins' has never shown he can hit the highs it took Eli to hit to win it all.

PurpleKoolaid Hall of Fame Candidate Posts: 6,227 Likes: 2,844	Are we being totally fair to Cousins! May 14, 2020 17:29:46 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by PurpleKoolaid on May 14, 2020 17:29:46 GMT -6 The title of this "thread" should be 'Is Cousins being fair to the MN Vikings'. The answer is NO.

legendsofthenorth
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Are we being totally fair to Cousins! May 15, 2020 23:29:40 GMT -6 via mobile Reignman likes this

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Post by legendsofthenorth on May 15, 2020 23:29:40 GMT -6

May 11, 2020 0:16:40 GMT -6 @purpledrankreturns said:

I have been one to be very hard on Cousins but is the losing record against winning teams fair. He has been on some lousy Redskins teams. I know no excuses but true. He is not the only one with a losing record is this media driven. check it out

Peyton Manning 45-47
John Elway 49-60
Aaron Rodgers 36-49-1
Eli Manning 32-77
Philip Rivers 33-53
Drew Brees 49-65
Matt Ryan 28-43

Some of these records I only could find before the 2019 season. It wouldn't make a huge difference some like Rivers and Ryans would be worse. Yes a few won the Super Bowl like Eli but can Cousins find lightning in a bottle like that get hot and win it all perhaps. Why does the media only criticize Cousins and not someone like Rivers. Rivers also made the playoffs 6 out of 16 years with top notch talent some years as weapons and Ryan also.

I want to see him rally the troops in big games on a consistent basis. Until that happens we are not underestimating him.

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Are we being totally fair to Cousins! May 16, 2020 15:32:07 GMT -6 Danchat likes this

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Post by Reignman on May 16, 2020 15:32:07 GMT -6

May 13, 2020 19:55:09 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

May 11, 2020 4:31:42 GMT -6 @aussie61 said:

My biggest beef with Cousins has always been the lack of 4th Qtr comebacks.
Elite QBs are winners when the chips are down,and Cousins doesn't get it done.

TOP 5 QBs (Comebacks)

1 Peyton Manning (43) 1998 - 2015
2 Tom Brady (36) 2000 - 2019
3 Drew Brees (35) 2001 -2019
4 Jonny Unitas (34) 1956 - 1973
5 Dan Marino (33) 1983 - 1999

Players that have been in the NFL a similar time to Cousins.

1 Russell Wilson (21) 2012 - 2019
2 Andy Dalton (20) 2011 - 2019
3 Derek Carr (18) 2014 - 2019
4 Ryan Tannehill (17) 2012 - 2019
5 Andrew Luck (16) 2012 - 2018

Kirk Cousins (10) 2012 - 2019

This is the part where Reignman says this stat is overrated.

Yeah that sounds like something I'd say. I was always annoyed about the "experts" bringing up Staffords 4th quarter comeback prowess. It makes me wonder what a QB is doing the first 3 quarters where he needs to comeback that often. If you get the job done quarters 1-3, you don't need a comeback.

Having said that however, you need to look at the other part of the equation to give it context. If you're a career .500 QB with a lot of 4th quarter comebacks, like Stafford, then you're not doing much quarters 1-3. If you have high win pct with a lower 4th QC ratio, like Brady, it means you're taking care of business quarters 1-3.

Cousins has neither a high win pct or a good 4th QC ratio, so whatever he's doing quarters 1-3, he most likely continues into the 4th. If he has the lead, he probably wins, if he doesn't, he probably loses. That is an alarmingly low 4th QC total, and it's not because he's typically sitting on a big lead headed into the 4th lol.

Aug 8, 2024 18:42:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

if sitting and watching something versus actually doing it made a person great at it, Reignman would be the next Ron Jeremy.

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Are we being totally fair to Cousins! May 16, 2020 15:41:40 GMT -6

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Post by Reignman on May 16, 2020 15:41:40 GMT -6

May 13, 2020 20:21:59 GMT -6 @purpledrankreturns said:

May 13, 2020 20:05:28 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Oh, and "the pressure of primetime."

Cousins needs to play better defense, man! The eff?! Hard to win games this way!

Nice find! Who would of thought it football is a team sport after all, really could of fooled me LOL!

Well here's the thing about that stat. It's misleading. If the QB/offense isn't moving the chains, then the defense is naturally going to be on the field more. If the defense is on the field more, it's going to give up more yards and more points. I'm not saying the offense is entirely to blame for the bad prime time defense, that seems to be a systemic issue with the Vikings, but it is a factor.

I'm constantly making the opposite argument with Raptorman when he likes to give the Patriots defense all the credit for theirs and Tom's success, but if you have a well oiled offense that can move the chains, the defense is going to be on the field less. Not only does that make them look better, but it also helps keep them rested so they finish the game strong. Unlike the Vikings.

If Cousins is constantly going 3-n-out, the defense isn't going to get any rest and will probably be tired by the 4th. Tough to generate any 4th QC's if your defense is tired

.

Aug 8, 2024 18:42:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

if sitting and watching something versus actually doing it made a person great at it, Reignman would be the next Ron Jeremy.

Funkytown Owner Purple Pain Big Dog Posts: 67,661 Likes: 31,587 Fan Since: 1998	Are we being totally fair to Cousins! May 16, 2020 15:53:45 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Funkytown on May 16, 2020 15:53:45 GMT -6

legendsofthenorth
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Are we being totally fair to Cousins! May 16, 2020 15:59:53 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by legendsofthenorth on May 16, 2020 15:59:53 GMT -6

May 16, 2020 15:41:40 GMT -6 Reignman said:

May 13, 2020 20:21:59 GMT -6 @purpledrankreturns said:

Nice find! Who would of thought it football is a team sport after all, really could of fooled me LOL!

Well here's the thing about that stat. It's misleading. If the QB/offense isn't moving the chains, then the defense is naturally going to be on the field more. If the defense is on the field more, it's going to give up more yards and more points. I'm not saying the offense is entirely to blame for the bad prime time defense, that seems to be a systemic issue with the Vikings, but it is a factor.

I'm constantly making the opposite argument with Raptorman when he likes to give the Patriots defense all the credit for theirs and Tom's success, but if you have a well oiled offense that can move the chains, the defense is going to be on the field less. Not only does that make them look better, but it also helps keep them rested so they finish the game strong. Unlike the Vikings.

If Cousins is constantly going 3-n-out, the defense isn't going to get any rest and will probably be tired by the 4th. Tough to generate any 4th QC's if your defense is tired

.

That stat seems way low anyway.

They lost 38-31 the Rams when Cousins played lights out two years ago and lost to Seattle 37-31 last year when Cousins played really well. Cowboys also scored 24 points when Cousins balled out in the win. What prime time games, yes plural, did the defense hold teams to 10 points? Thats the only way the numbers would work out.

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Are we being totally fair to Cousins! May 16, 2020 16:06:35 GMT -6 PurpleKoolaid and legendsofthenorth like this

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Post by Reignman on May 16, 2020 16:06:35 GMT -6

May 14, 2020 12:10:46 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

This Dustin Baker guy is quite the propagandist lol. Is this an alias of Homer Nick?

He's right, almost everyone has a losing record against teams above .500, it's basic math. For example, the opponents against a 10-6 team went a combined 6-10 obviously. The average will always be a losing record. If we want to put a number on it, the NFL is a combined .325 against teams above .500 since 2002.

So now we know what the average is (.325). What is Cousins? He's half that at .167, so he's still terrible. In fact he's one of the worst out of QB's who have held a starting job for as long as he has. And last time I checked, you need to beat 3 or 4 above .500 teams in a row to win one of those shiny Lombardi Trophies. Cousins has never won 2 in a row at any point in his career.

Half of his career 6 wins against winning teams came against teams that were just 9-7, and the best team he ever beat was just 11-5. Until he beat the 13-3 Saints in the playoffs in January. So it's no myth, he straight up sucks against winning teams.

Aug 8, 2024 18:42:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

if sitting and watching something versus actually doing it made a person great at it, Reignman would be the next Ron Jeremy.

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Are we being totally fair to Cousins! May 16, 2020 17:16:31 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on May 16, 2020 17:16:31 GMT -6

May 16, 2020 15:59:53 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

May 16, 2020 15:41:40 GMT -6 Reignman said:

Well here's the thing about that stat. It's misleading. If the QB/offense isn't moving the chains, then the defense is naturally going to be on the field more. If the defense is on the field more, it's going to give up more yards and more points. I'm not saying the offense is entirely to blame for the bad prime time defense, that seems to be a systemic issue with the Vikings, but it is a factor.

I'm constantly making the opposite argument with Raptorman when he likes to give the Patriots defense all the credit for theirs and Tom's success, but if you have a well oiled offense that can move the chains, the defense is going to be on the field less. Not only does that make them look better, but it also helps keep them rested so they finish the game strong. Unlike the Vikings.

If Cousins is constantly going 3-n-out, the defense isn't going to get any rest and will probably be tired by the 4th. Tough to generate any 4th QC's if your defense is tired

.

That stat seems way low anyway.

They lost 38-31 the Rams when Cousins played lights out two years ago and lost to Seattle 37-31 last year when Cousins played really well. Cowboys also scored 24 points when Cousins balled out in the win. What prime time games, yes plural, did the defense hold teams to 10 points? Thats the only way the numbers would work out.

The Rams game he played well...then fumbled away our shot at winning. The Seattle game the offense scored 23 and was aided by a defensive score. Cousins completed just 3 passes over 10 yards, and ended the game failing to pick up more than 1 1st down on the final drive when the game was within reach.

Those games are perfect examples of him being a solid QB who just isn't good enough when we really need him to step up.

Last Edit: May 16, 2020 17:17:00 GMT -6 by whoskmoon

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Are we being totally fair to Cousins! May 16, 2020 17:23:45 GMT -6

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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2020 17:23:45 GMT -6

May 16, 2020 17:16:31 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

May 16, 2020 15:59:53 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

That stat seems way low anyway.

They lost 38-31 the Rams when Cousins played lights out two years ago and lost to Seattle 37-31 last year when Cousins played really well. Cowboys also scored 24 points when Cousins balled out in the win. What prime time games, yes plural, did the defense hold teams to 10 points? Thats the only way the numbers would work out.

The Rams game he played well...then fumbled away our shot at winning. The Seattle game the offense scored 23 and was aided by a defensive score. Cousins completed just 3 passes over 10 yards, and ended the game failing to pick up more than 1 1st down on the final drive when the game was within reach.

Those games are perfect examples of him being a solid QB who just isn't good enough when we really need him to step up.

He did ball against GB when Mr.Carlson decided to forget how to kick FGs. He did fumble against Rams but damn the defense made like no stops that game. It's a team game stop someone it never should of came to that he did enough that game for us to get to the winners circle 422 passing 3tds 0 picks. You can't say because of the money he is held at a different standard not that game. The defense was one of the highest paid Ds in all of football full of pro bowlers yet got raped all day long. I get it to some Cousins sucks but that Rams game is a poor example to use for him failing to play well in big games.

Last Edit: May 16, 2020 17:39:39 GMT -6 by Deleted

legendsofthenorth
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Are we being totally fair to Cousins! May 16, 2020 17:34:34 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by legendsofthenorth on May 16, 2020 17:34:34 GMT -6

May 16, 2020 17:16:31 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

May 16, 2020 15:59:53 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

That stat seems way low anyway.

They lost 38-31 the Rams when Cousins played lights out two years ago and lost to Seattle 37-31 last year when Cousins played really well. Cowboys also scored 24 points when Cousins balled out in the win. What prime time games, yes plural, did the defense hold teams to 10 points? Thats the only way the numbers would work out.

The Rams game he played well...then fumbled away our shot at winning. The Seattle game the offense scored 23 and was aided by a defensive score. Cousins completed just 3 passes over 10 yards, and ended the game failing to pick up more than 1 1st down on the final drive when the game was within reach.

Those games are perfect examples of him being a solid QB who just isn't good enough when we really need him to step up.

I was merely pointing out IMO that he plays well enough to win games and the defense has let him down a lot. But I am not naive and say he hasn't put up some stinkers too.

I am overall not a huge stats guy because it allows every argument to ne twisted the way you want it to look like.

That's what everyone does with QBs. They use different stats to argue bad-good-great??? Different basis for different QBs.

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Are we being totally fair to Cousins! May 16, 2020 17:52:42 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikingpitbull on May 16, 2020 17:52:42 GMT -6

May 16, 2020 15:41:40 GMT -6 Reignman said:

May 13, 2020 20:21:59 GMT -6 @purpledrankreturns said:

Nice find! Who would of thought it football is a team sport after all, really could of fooled me LOL!

Well here's the thing about that stat. It's misleading. If the QB/offense isn't moving the chains, then the defense is naturally going to be on the field more. If the defense is on the field more, it's going to give up more yards and more points. I'm not saying the offense is entirely to blame for the bad prime time defense, that seems to be a systemic issue with the Vikings, but it is a factor.

I'm constantly making the opposite argument with Raptorman when he likes to give the Patriots defense all the credit for theirs and Tom's success, but if you have a well oiled offense that can move the chains, the defense is going to be on the field less. Not only does that make them look better, but it also helps keep them rested so they finish the game strong. Unlike the Vikings.

If Cousins is constantly going 3-n-out, the defense isn't going to get any rest and will probably be tired by the 4th. Tough to generate any 4th QC's if your defense is tired

.

You also have to factor in a team becomes one dimensional. Well we do still try to run it even if its not successful but that's another story. Most team will abandon the run so it's much easier for a D as well.

It would be interesting to see how many drives we never past the 50 on offense.

Last Edit: May 16, 2020 17:55:49 GMT -6 by vikingpitbull

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Are we being totally fair to Cousins! May 16, 2020 18:05:01 GMT -6 Reignman likes this

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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2020 18:05:01 GMT -6

May 16, 2020 15:41:40 GMT -6 Reignman said:

May 13, 2020 20:21:59 GMT -6 @purpledrankreturns said:

Nice find! Who would of thought it football is a team sport after all, really could of fooled me LOL!

Well here's the thing about that stat. It's misleading. If the QB/offense isn't moving the chains, then the defense is naturally going to be on the field more. If the defense is on the field more, it's going to give up more yards and more points. I'm not saying the offense is entirely to blame for the bad prime time defense, that seems to be a systemic issue with the Vikings, but it is a factor.

I'm constantly making the opposite argument with Raptorman when he likes to give the Patriots defense all the credit for theirs and Tom's success, but if you have a well oiled offense that can move the chains, the defense is going to be on the field less. Not only does that make them look better, but it also helps keep them rested so they finish the game strong. Unlike the Vikings.

If Cousins is constantly going 3-n-out, the defense isn't going to get any rest and will probably be tired by the 4th. Tough to generate any 4th QC's if your defense is tired

.

In that case you can also make a argument that if the offense scores on big plays to quickly like the Chiefs it also hurts the defense. That is why I feel it is better to have a rotation especially on the defensive line and different packages with different personal to keep the defense fresh. Playing defense is harder and takes more energy since you have to react and the offense already knows what they are doing. Either way the coach is going to have to manage that and keep sub packages flowing in to keep guys fresh for the 4th quarter. The guys on the back end going to have to be in shape though that is why they paid the big bucks and condition more if they always tired. If you not one of the big boys I can't give them a excuse for being tired it's their job rest after the game. The games are longer in the league but I never came off the field in high school never and sometimes in college which would add up to playing longer than them in a game. I never used it as a excuse they professionals stop drinking and smoking weed staying out all night and maybe they wouldn't be so tired in the 4th.

Last Edit: May 16, 2020 18:19:58 GMT -6 by Deleted

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Are we being totally fair to Cousins! May 16, 2020 19:50:20 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by legendsofthenorth on May 16, 2020 19:50:20 GMT -6

May 16, 2020 18:05:01 GMT -6 @purpledrankreturns said:

May 16, 2020 15:41:40 GMT -6 Reignman said:

Well here's the thing about that stat. It's misleading. If the QB/offense isn't moving the chains, then the defense is naturally going to be on the field more. If the defense is on the field more, it's going to give up more yards and more points. I'm not saying the offense is entirely to blame for the bad prime time defense, that seems to be a systemic issue with the Vikings, but it is a factor.

I'm constantly making the opposite argument with Raptorman when he likes to give the Patriots defense all the credit for theirs and Tom's success, but if you have a well oiled offense that can move the chains, the defense is going to be on the field less. Not only does that make them look better, but it also helps keep them rested so they finish the game strong. Unlike the Vikings.

If Cousins is constantly going 3-n-out, the defense isn't going to get any rest and will probably be tired by the 4th. Tough to generate any 4th QC's if your defense is tired

.

In that case you can also make a argument that if the offense scores on big plays to quickly like the Chiefs it also hurts the defense. That is why I feel it is better to have a rotation especially on the defensive line and different packages with different personal to keep the defense fresh. Playing defense is harder and takes more energy since you have to react and the offense already knows what they are doing. Either way the coach is going to have to manage that and keep sub packages flowing in to keep guys fresh for the 4th quarter. The guys on the back end going to have to be in shape though that is why they paid the big bucks and condition more if they always tired. If you not one of the big boys I can't give them a excuse for being tired it's their job rest after the game. The games are longer in the league but I never came off the field in high school never and sometimes in college which would add up to playing longer than them in a game. I never used it as a excuse they professionals stop drinking and smoking weed staying out all night and maybe they wouldn't be so tired in the 4th.

And robbing and assaulting people. Geez.