When does JJ start?

mobas
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When does JJ start? May 24, 2024 21:47:23 GMT -6 purplelosers likes this

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Post by mobas on May 24, 2024 21:47:23 GMT -6

May 24, 2024 21:36:31 GMT -6 Danchat said:

May 24, 2024 21:00:32 GMT -6 mobas said:

He's elite with his legs but not as elite with his arm. That's the point.

OK... I don't see the point of comparing that, given the massive gap in play between Jackson and Darnold in their careers. I thought we were talking about comparing the QB as a full package, not just one aspect.

May 24, 2024 21:00:32 GMT -6 mobas said:

Jimmy G never developed an arm

Garoppolo as a prospect did not have a particularly strong arm, certainly not close to McCarthy, so I don't see how he is relevant to this discussion. His biggest strength as a prospect was accuracy and consistency.

May 24, 2024 21:00:32 GMT -6 mobas said:

You may think young QBs can develop their arms that but that is usually not the case.

QBs can develop accuracy, but you're talking about the "arm" again? It's already been noted in OTAs that McCarthy's throws had more zip on them than Darnold's and we know they can both wing it 60+ yards downfield. Accuracy is what needs to develop, not the arm.

Getting back to the main topic, JJ will start when A) he's got the playbook down, B) his accuracy/footwork is improved enough for O'Connell to trust him on gameday (doesn't have to be a finished product), and C) when Darnold gives him a chance, whether by injury or performance.

In your view, any pitcher with a 90+ mph has a strong football arm? That is not what scouts say when a QB has a strong arm. A strong football arm can make tight window throws all over the field with touch if needed, not just a specific fastball into a pylon. A strong football arm can make throws outside the numbers into tight coverage on deep routes, which Darnold has shown time and time again he can do. He did that in college. Many QBs can't do that including Lamar, Jimmy G and Alex Smith. There is nothing wrong with that but saying JJ will develop Darnold's or Josh Allen's arm with time is foolhardy especially since I haven't seen one college QB develop into one in the pros.

Last Edit: May 24, 2024 21:51:57 GMT -6 by mobas

glenwo2
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When does JJ start? May 24, 2024 21:52:05 GMT -6 purplelosers and mobas like this

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Post by glenwo2 on May 24, 2024 21:52:05 GMT -6

May 23, 2024 11:19:14 GMT -6 ratsalad said:

May 22, 2024 20:20:57 GMT -6 glenwo2 said:

No he does not. Stop this crap.

Yes he does, it's a constant criticism he receives because he does it all the time.

It's "constant criticism" by those who take one moment of an uttered phrase to his coach (that should never have been aired) and running with it as the end-all be-all of his career.

It's done by people who can't be bothered to look deeper into the actual circumstances of why he had struggled.

So no. He does NOT see ghosts.

He stopped "seeing ghosts" when he left the Jets and that gong-show franchise and Media.

Last Edit: May 24, 2024 22:38:24 GMT -6 by glenwo2

glenwo2
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When does JJ start? May 24, 2024 22:08:54 GMT -6 purplelosers and mobas like this

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Post by glenwo2 on May 24, 2024 22:08:54 GMT -6

May 24, 2024 20:06:13 GMT -6 Danchat said:

May 24, 2024 19:11:56 GMT -6 mobas said:

WR PFF gradings are independent of QB play.

Darnold got to throw to 2 1000+ yard WRs in DJ Moore and Robbie Anderson in 2021 and still failed (had McCaffery too), in which the offense was considerably better the previous year with Teddy Bridgewater at the helm...

But yes, the Jets teams Darnold played for were abysmal. That in itself doesn't make him a better player, however.

The offense was better with Bridgewater? Yeah...so "better" that they went 5-11 that season(pretty much the same record as Sam when he "still failed").

But sure let's all celebrate the Stat-Padding of DJ and "Chosen". (just a reminder that Teddy also had a Healthy McCaffrey for a FULL SEASON while Sam only had a Healthy McCaffrey for just 3 frickin' games and that's it.)

As far as Sam's first season in Carolina goes, the offense was better so long as McCaffrey was on the field and healthy.

With him, the team started out HOT going 3-0.

That's what happens when a QB has a truly Elite player out on the field to throw to (or hand the ball off to).

DJ was a very good complentary receiver to McCaffrey so it was a good combo.

However, once McCaffrey went down for the season, Matt Rhule apparently had zero gameplan to operate without him.

And his OC (Joe Brady) didn't know sh*t about what he was doing (btw, good luck to the Bills and especially Josh Allen for giving this sad sack another shot at the role)

(oh and McCaffrey was gone to the Niners the following season with Mr. "Chosen" who should've renamed himself "Overrated" following him not long after)

But it is interesting how Sam "failed" to throw to those two WR you mentioned and yet was able to go 4-2 with only 1 of those 2 and a pile of garbage the following season....

What was different from the previous year to the next?

Oh that's right.... MATT F'N RHULE WAS FIRED!! (along with Joe Brady)

Hell...it took someone with an iota of Coaching ability (Steve Wilks, who ironically is the DC of the Niners) to take over and actually get Sam Darnold going for the first time in his career.

And Sam ALMOST dragged that carcass of a Panthers team into the playoffs had their Defense not allowed Back-To-Back-To-Back TDs by Lee Evans of Tampa Bay.

Some fans have argued with me that Coaching does not matter..... In this case, it really does.

It matters.

The surroundings matter.

The teams overall talent matter.

Coaching...Matters.

Last Edit: May 24, 2024 22:37:02 GMT -6 by glenwo2

glenwo2
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When does JJ start? May 24, 2024 22:32:13 GMT -6 purplelosers and mobas like this

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Post by glenwo2 on May 24, 2024 22:32:13 GMT -6

May 24, 2024 19:18:48 GMT -6 ratsalad said:

May 24, 2024 10:08:03 GMT -6 mobas said:

Our coaches have already called Darnold "phenomenal" and raved about his arm.

Did you watch the 49ers-Ravens game last season? Who was the best QB that night: Purdy, Lamar or Darnold?

I will refrain from being a dick. But you need to stop. This is getting ridiculous.

It's a message board.

He's got his opinion as do you and as do I.

Last Edit: May 24, 2024 22:33:34 GMT -6 by glenwo2

VikingsVictorious
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When does JJ start? May 25, 2024 0:37:57 GMT -6

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Post by VikingsVictorious on May 25, 2024 0:37:57 GMT -6

May 24, 2024 21:00:32 GMT -6 mobas said:

May 24, 2024 20:06:13 GMT -6 Danchat said:

The QB who went 23/35 for 252 yards and 2 TDs against a top 5 defense was the better RB? Come on. Darnold completed 8/14 passes in garbage time for 81 yards and tossed a game losing interception - which was understandable given they were basically out of time so the fact that they were 1 yard away from another TD wasn't very notable. If he had actually outplayed the NFL MVP then Shanahan must have been an idiot to not start him the next week!

I don't see any throws Darnold made that McCarthy couldn't make once he develops further, fixing his footwork, working on slowing down some throws to "feather" them in, etc. There is some projection needed but as has been explained already, JJ was very accurate in college so I don't think that take is unreasonable.

Darnold got to throw to 2 1000+ yard WRs in DJ Moore and Robbie Anderson in 2021 and still failed (had McCaffery too), in which the offense was considerably better the previous year with Teddy Bridgewater at the helm...

But yes, the Jets teams Darnold played for were abysmal. That in itself doesn't make him a better player, however.

Please rewatch the game. Lamar used his feet to buy time so his receivers could get open which required no tight window throws. He's elite with his legs but not as elite with his arm. That's the point. Darnold has an elite arm and can make throws all over the field without using his legs. He did that in college so he was way past McCarthy's arm development at his age.

You may think young QBs can develop their arms that but that is usually not the case. Jimmy G never developed an arm nor did Alex Smith. Why do you think JJ will? Have you seen any QBs that did not make obscene throws in college develop that part in the pros?

When people talk about a QBs arm being strong it has always been about how hard and far they can throw it. McCarthy's arm is stronger than Darnold's period. It's not close. McCarthy has taken criticism that he doesn't have good touch/layering on his passes. Regardless of how true that is or not he completed a crazy high percentage of his passes in college. You try to say he couldn't throw outside the numbers at his combine. People raved about his combine and Pro Day performances. Imagine how incredible he will be once he develops more touch/layering on his passes. He's very good already and can potentially become the best in the NFL.

VikingsVictorious
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When does JJ start? May 25, 2024 0:39:30 GMT -6

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Post by VikingsVictorious on May 25, 2024 0:39:30 GMT -6

May 24, 2024 22:32:13 GMT -6 glenwo2 said:

May 24, 2024 19:18:48 GMT -6 ratsalad said:

I will refrain from being a dick. But you need to stop. This is getting ridiculous.

It's a message board.

He's got his opinion as do you and as do I.

A lot of us are of the opinion that Mobas's opinions don't hold up when analyzed by the available evidence.

purplelosers
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When does JJ start? May 25, 2024 3:42:03 GMT -6 kmillard, slapnut19, and 2 more like this

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Post by purplelosers on May 25, 2024 3:42:03 GMT -6

May 25, 2024 0:39:30 GMT -6 VikingsVictorious said:

A lot of us are of the opinion that Mobas's opinions don't hold up when analyzed by the available evidence.

The available evidence??
Here's some available evidence from Lance Zierlein (NFL Network):

Weaknesses

Sluggish getting through progressions and can get stuck on first read.

Modest arm strength might be magnified by windup in his delivery.

Ball placement on tape belies completion percentage on the stat sheet.

Leaves throws behind moving targets, allowing defenders to challenge catches.

Deep balls need to come out quicker and with more air under them.

Timing improved during the season but still crowds receivers to coverage.

Average escapability as a runner when scrambling.

www.nfl.com/prospects/j-j-mccarthy/32004d43-4318-9531-b3f5-120a14383239

And here's some more available evidence from Derrik Klassen (Bleacher Report):

One-speed thrower with average arm talent. Often fails to add arc and touch when necessary, especially outside the numbers.

Below-average ability to throw late in the down or from uncomfortable platforms.

Below-average processing and timing on anything but his first read.

In Kevin O'Connells system, the Vikings have averaged 651 passes per season, or 38 passes per game.

McCarthy only threw an average of 22 passes per game in Michigans run first offence. Extrapolate that out to a 17 game NFL season it it works out to 374 passes.

Can McCarthy elevate his game to carry the extra workload, against NFL defences? I don't know, nobody does.
The one thing I do know is this kid is not the "perfect NFL ready prospect" some here want to make him out to be.

PurpleFloyd
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When does JJ start? May 25, 2024 7:32:42 GMT -6 via mobile ratsalad likes this

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Post by PurpleFloyd on May 25, 2024 7:32:42 GMT -6

May 24, 2024 19:14:14 GMT -6 mobas said:

May 24, 2024 19:04:50 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Career- 63 TDs and 56 INTs. 21-35 career record. That’s a “gravitational pull towards .375.

I think we can hold off on the parade just yet.

Flacco, Newton, Mayfield, McCown and PJ Walker played on the same teams. What were their records?

Flacco won a SB. Newton went to a SB. Mayfield took 2 teams to the playoffs. You have a strange way of trying to make a point.

Darnold is 63-56 in TD/INT.
Cousins (who we didn’t retain) is 270-110.

You think the team is going to improve having that behind center?

Josey Wales
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When does JJ start? May 25, 2024 7:42:00 GMT -6 via mobile Oracle Bone Diviner, comet52, and 2 more like this

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Post by Josey Wales on May 25, 2024 7:42:00 GMT -6

May 24, 2024 18:38:55 GMT -6 mobas said:

May 24, 2024 16:19:27 GMT -6 Josey Wales said:

Good grief.

Look, I get that you're a Darnold fanboy and that's fine, lord knows I've met enough fanboys in 30 years of online football discussions. But let me ask you this, if Darnold's ceiling is "John Elway", why is he on his 4th NFL team in 6 years, and destined to be a backup for the vikings? Do NFL GMs and coaches not possess the keen football insight that you possess?

Or could it be your bias causes you to HIGHLY overvalue and overestimate the abilities of your infatuation?

He was handpicked by Kyle Shanahan to be the potential starter on a Super Bowl bound NFL team. He was handpicked by KOC and Sean Payton (both QB gurus) and given a $10m contract on a prove it deal. Maybe they know more about QB skills than me or you?

Yes, he was handpicked to be a backup, and then foot-kicked out the door, just like he will be here.

Last Edit: May 25, 2024 7:57:27 GMT -6 by Josey Wales

PurpleFloyd
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When does JJ start? May 25, 2024 7:46:03 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on May 25, 2024 7:46:03 GMT -6

May 25, 2024 7:42:00 GMT -6 Josey Wales said:

May 24, 2024 18:38:55 GMT -6 mobas said:

He was handpicked by Kyle Shanahan to be the potential starter on a Super Bowl bound NFL team. He was handpicked by KOC and Sean Payton (both QB gurus) and given a $10m contract on a prove it deal. Maybe they know more about QB skills than me or you?

Yes, he was handpicked to be a backup, and then foot-kicked out the door, just like he will be here.

Elway would have been starting over Purdy, Mayfield or anyone else Darnold was on a team with

Josey Wales
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When does JJ start? May 25, 2024 7:47:39 GMT -6 via mobile VikingsVictorious and ratsalad like this

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Post by Josey Wales on May 25, 2024 7:47:39 GMT -6

May 24, 2024 18:41:11 GMT -6 mobas said:

May 24, 2024 16:26:44 GMT -6 Josey Wales said:

LOL!

It's pretty hilarious how you speak in absolutes when you don't have the foggiest idea of what that outcome would actually be.

Tell me at one point in NFL history that any QB succeeded with a PFF bottom 25 O Line and bottom 25 receiving corp. I'll wait.

Topic-switch much?

I referred to your definitive proclomation on what JJ wouldn't be able to do, and then you jump to something else entirely when your argument is indefensible?

Yeah, I'm done riding on the dum dum merry-go-round with you.

Last Edit: May 25, 2024 8:12:49 GMT -6 by Josey Wales

comet52
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When does JJ start? May 25, 2024 9:04:38 GMT -6 PurpleKoolaid, kmillard, and 3 more like this

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Post by comet52 on May 25, 2024 9:04:38 GMT -6

May 24, 2024 6:14:22 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

some of you Darnold fans are doing a great job

I'm mystified that he has fans at all, and that at least 2-3 guys have showed up on this forum to not only be fans but spend all day angrily arguing that he's greater than JJM, Purdy, Lamar, even Elway. Yet he's going into year 7 as a bounce-around-the-league backup. This is some whacky stuff. Darnold must have close relatives with time on their hands. *skeptic*

I'm here for entertainment purposes only

dougpaschal
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When does JJ start? May 25, 2024 10:10:08 GMT -6 Danchat likes this

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Post by dougpaschal on May 25, 2024 10:10:08 GMT -6

May 23, 2024 22:26:24 GMT -6 mobas said:

May 23, 2024 17:08:01 GMT -6 Josey Wales said:

I'm sorry, but Darnold has the genetically better arm than McCarthy.

Ah….both Darnold and McCarthy can throw it over them mountains. This arm strength argument isn’t the hill to fight over. You’ve made a number of good points in you defense of Darnold, but this is not one of them

Last Edit: May 25, 2024 10:25:17 GMT -6 by dougpaschal

glenwo2
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When does JJ start? May 25, 2024 13:01:35 GMT -6 VikingsVictorious, purplelosers, and 1 more like this

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Post by glenwo2 on May 25, 2024 13:01:35 GMT -6

May 25, 2024 0:39:30 GMT -6 VikingsVictorious said:

May 24, 2024 22:32:13 GMT -6 glenwo2 said:

It's a message board.

He's got his opinion as do you and as do I.

A lot of us are of the opinion that Mobas's opinions don't hold up when analyzed by the available evidence.

Well that's fine.

My issue is someone telling someone to stop having an opinion.

That's just obnoxious to me.

Last Edit: May 25, 2024 13:36:20 GMT -6 by glenwo2

glenwo2
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When does JJ start? May 25, 2024 13:05:25 GMT -6 mobas likes this

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Post by glenwo2 on May 25, 2024 13:05:25 GMT -6

May 25, 2024 9:04:38 GMT -6 comet52 said:

May 24, 2024 6:14:22 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

some of you Darnold fans are doing a great job

I'm mystified that he has fans at all, and that at least 2-3 guys have showed up on this forum to not only be fans but spend all day angrily arguing that he's greater than JJM, Purdy, Lamar, even Elway. Yet he's going into year 7 as a bounce-around-the-league backup. This is some whacky stuff. Darnold must have close relatives with time on their hands. *skeptic*

Is mockery the only thing you're capable of?

This is the 2nd instance in as many days.

*blocked*

Last Edit: May 25, 2024 13:10:23 GMT -6 by glenwo2