Playoffs or Better Draft Pick - Would You Rather ...?

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Playoffs or Better Draft Pick - Would You Rather ...? Dec 18, 2023 15:40:26 GMT -6 kmillard and FSUVike like this

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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2023 15:40:26 GMT -6

Dec 18, 2023 14:36:33 GMT -6 tfundermann said:

Dec 18, 2023 13:48:01 GMT -6 PurpleKoolaid said:

I have seen a lot of homerism in my time, but Tfun, you take the cake. Even Will and Dustin would blush reading your post.

Easily the first and only time I have ever been compared to Dustin. Not sure how to take that. I am not saying KOC is the next great HC, just saying I think people are acting a bit harshly saying he is horrible and will never be any good. This is coming from the guy that said screw it, tank, after the JJ injury. Hell, I even predicted they would lose 4 of the following 5 games after the injury, and they went on to win all 5 of them. Uber pessimist here in most cases, just trying to be optimistic with KOC (for now).

Dec 18, 2023 14:09:56 GMT -6 @gruff said:

LOL. In case you haven't been keeping up with current events, the Vikings just snatched defeat from the jaws of victory Pal ! Got news for ya, If Powell couldn't push Mullins 6 inches forward? he's definetly not gonna move Cousins either. Does Kirk have a more pushable tush? I'm afraid to look lol. I could keep goin and goin on this, but out of respect for the energizer Bunny, i won't do it.

OK just a little more. Are you saying that O'Noes wouldn't have tried the push X's 2 if Kirk was in there? Yes he would, yes he would!!! Kevin's a moron lol

Oh 1000% the Vikings lost that game more than the Bengals won it. It was an abysmal performance in the 4th/OT. Agreed that Powell is not pushing Kirk an extra 6 inches either, however, if Kirk is playing that game (and I cannot believe I am even typing this considering I wanted Kirk gone 2+ years ago), they are not in that same position. Those 2 INTs do not happen, and the team is probably up by 21+ going into the 4th and the Bengals don't stand a chance of coming back. KOC has some bad decision making from time to time, no disagreement there. But on the whole he is more good than he is bad by a substantial margin. I am choosing to still trust him for right now. If it is more of the same bad play calling in key moments and poor roster management in the offseason, then I will be fully on the skeptical side.

Vikings beat themselves in all 3 of those games and the Raiders refused the gift which would of made 4 loses. Not a sign of a winning team, more like a team shrouded in turmoil. Kevin's 0-1 in the playoffs. Lost to the team he beat in the regular season at home. Probably won't get a chance to redeem himself this year. Maybe best for his sake.

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Playoffs or Better Draft Pick - Would You Rather ...? Dec 18, 2023 15:48:56 GMT -6 suncoastvike, vikingpwr, and 1 more like this

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Post by tfundermann on Dec 18, 2023 15:48:56 GMT -6

Dec 18, 2023 15:40:26 GMT -6 @gruff said:

Not a sign of a winning team, more like a team shrouded in turmoil.

Well yea. You do realize they lost their starting QB, backup QB, and benched the backup to the backup QB right? Oh and lost various OL players and their stud star WR for 7 weeks. If you thought that was the recipe for great success week in and week out you are confused on how the NFL works. The fact this team is even sniffing the division and probably making the playoffs is insane! Expectations were too high after the Kirk injury and Dobbsanity. The way they have played the last 4 weeks is more in line with what should have been expected. Still should have won 2-3 of those games, but they fell apart late and just couldn't do it (some is def on KOC and his mismanagement late). Not ideal, but this team finishing above .500 for the season is still crazy considering everything that has happened.

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Playoffs or Better Draft Pick - Would You Rather ...? Dec 18, 2023 15:54:22 GMT -6 kmillard and tfundermann like this

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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2023 15:54:22 GMT -6

Dec 18, 2023 15:22:04 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

Dec 18, 2023 10:03:38 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

7-7 is a turnaround?

lol that is the funny part. Everyone praising these other teams with similar records and not starting 4 diff QBs all year. Just weird behavior. Its todays NFL. Its a week to week league anyone could beat anyone

Stefanski is the KIng of the 4qb Carousel. He's puttin on a coaching clinic !!!! WOOF WOOF!!!!! OK sometimes he brain cramps but, he's got his team sittin pretty as they can be
at this particular point and time. Browns Defense rose to the occasion and f*cked up the Bears a little bit yesterday.

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Playoffs or Better Draft Pick - Would You Rather ...? Dec 18, 2023 16:07:34 GMT -6

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Post by tfundermann on Dec 18, 2023 16:07:34 GMT -6

Dec 18, 2023 15:54:22 GMT -6 @gruff said:

Dec 18, 2023 15:22:04 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

lol that is the funny part. Everyone praising these other teams with similar records and not starting 4 diff QBs all year. Just weird behavior. Its todays NFL. Its a week to week league anyone could beat anyone

Stefanski is the KIng of the 4qb Carousel. He's puttin on a coaching clinic !!!! WOOF WOOF!!!!! OK sometimes he brain cramps but, he's got his team sittin pretty as they can be
at this particular point and time. Browns Defense rose to the occasion and f*cked up the Bears a little bit yesterday.

That defense is amazing! Flores has done amazing work with the Vikings defense, but at the end of the day they do not have the players to be that kind of dominant. They can be really really good, but outside Hunter and Harry, there are no veteran defenders that can be counted on week in week out, every single play. Pace is looking to be great, but still a rookie. Metellus and Bynum seem to be pretty damn good too, but again they are young and will make a mistake or two each game. That isn't even mentioning the week to week roller coaster that is the CB position on this team.

Stefanski has been coaching his butt off without a doubt. Handling that situation really well. I still think the KOC offense, when it is clicking on all cylinders, is better than Stefanski's, but the Browns have been more consistent lately.

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Playoffs or Better Draft Pick - Would You Rather ...? Dec 18, 2023 16:12:34 GMT -6 kmillard likes this

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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2023 16:12:34 GMT -6

Dec 18, 2023 15:48:56 GMT -6 tfundermann said:

Dec 18, 2023 15:40:26 GMT -6 @gruff said:

Not a sign of a winning team, more like a team shrouded in turmoil.

Well yea. You do realize they lost their starting QB, backup QB, and benched the backup to the backup QB right? Oh and lost various OL players and their stud star WR for 7 weeks. If you thought that was the recipe for great success week in and week out you are confused on how the NFL works. The fact this team is even sniffing the division and probably making the playoffs is insane! Expectations were too high after the Kirk injury and Dobbsanity. The way they have played the last 4 weeks is more in line with what should have been expected. Still should have won 2-3 of those games, but they fell apart late and just couldn't do it (some is def on KOC and his mismanagement late). Not ideal, but this team finishing above .500 for the season is still crazy considering everything that has happened.

The FACT is good Tfundermann, is that the Vikings are still "in it" is Due to the quality of competition in the league this year. I think UNCLE touched on this in another thread yesterday. Nothing the Vikings have done has put them in a good spot lol. The rest of the league gets credit for that. Look at the Standings! IT's right there in front of ya.

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Playoffs or Better Draft Pick - Would You Rather ...? Dec 18, 2023 16:19:53 GMT -6 tfundermann likes this

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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2023 16:19:53 GMT -6

Dec 18, 2023 16:07:34 GMT -6 tfundermann said:

Dec 18, 2023 15:54:22 GMT -6 @gruff said:

Stefanski is the KIng of the 4qb Carousel. He's puttin on a coaching clinic !!!! WOOF WOOF!!!!! OK sometimes he brain cramps but, he's got his team sittin pretty as they can be
at this particular point and time. Browns Defense rose to the occasion and f*cked up the Bears a little bit yesterday.

That defense is amazing! Flores has done amazing work with the Vikings defense, but at the end of the day they do not have the players to be that kind of dominant. They can be really really good, but outside Hunter and Harry, there are no veteran defenders that can be counted on week in week out, every single play. Pace is looking to be great, but still a rookie. Metellus and Bynum seem to be pretty damn good too, but again they are young and will make a mistake or two each game. That isn't even mentioning the week to week roller coaster that is the CB position on this team.

Stefanski has been coaching his butt off without a doubt. Handling that situation really well. I still think the KOC offense, when it is clicking on all cylinders, is better than Stefanski's, but the Browns have been more consistent lately.

Best part is that the Brown's defense is crippled too lol. Must be dumb luck in some eyes that they're 9-5. I'm pretty impressed , they had plenty of legit reasons to fold and they didn't. we'll see if all the adversity they've been thru wears em down. But, they're still my foster team *showoff*

Last Edit: Dec 18, 2023 16:20:36 GMT -6 by Deleted

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Playoffs or Better Draft Pick - Would You Rather ...? Dec 18, 2023 16:29:12 GMT -6

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Post by tfundermann on Dec 18, 2023 16:29:12 GMT -6

Dec 18, 2023 16:12:34 GMT -6 @gruff said:

Dec 18, 2023 15:48:56 GMT -6 tfundermann said:

Well yea. You do realize they lost their starting QB, backup QB, and benched the backup to the backup QB right? Oh and lost various OL players and their stud star WR for 7 weeks. If you thought that was the recipe for great success week in and week out you are confused on how the NFL works. The fact this team is even sniffing the division and probably making the playoffs is insane! Expectations were too high after the Kirk injury and Dobbsanity. The way they have played the last 4 weeks is more in line with what should have been expected. Still should have won 2-3 of those games, but they fell apart late and just couldn't do it (some is def on KOC and his mismanagement late). Not ideal, but this team finishing above .500 for the season is still crazy considering everything that has happened.

The FACT is good Tfundermann, is that the Vikings are still "in it" is Due to the quality of competition in the league this year. I think UNCLE touched on this in another thread yesterday. Nothing the Vikings have done has put them in a good spot lol. The rest of the league gets credit for that. Look at the Standings! IT's right there in front of ya.

Yea, everyone knew the NFC was going to be mediocre beyond the 49ers, Eagles, and Cowboys this year. People said before the season started that 8 wins might get you to the playoffs, and that is looking to be true. A very top heavy but meh NFC this year. The NFL's dream is coming true that 20+ teams are vying for a playoff spot this late in the season. The QB injuries to half the league ensured this would happen though. I would also argue though that this team beating Atlanta and the Saints like they did helped put them in a good spot for the playoffs. Same goes for the SF win. That game was a coming out party for the team as a whole this year, and then it all was flushed down the toilet with the Kirk injury the following week. Ifs and buts were candies and nuts of course, but we view this team as a whole very differently without the Kirk injury imo. And that is coming from a self described Kirk Hater.

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Playoffs or Better Draft Pick - Would You Rather ...? Dec 18, 2023 16:53:05 GMT -6 via mobile kmillard, comet52, and 1 more like this

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Post by Drank on Dec 18, 2023 16:53:05 GMT -6

This the question you have to ask. Do you have any shot to be champion? If it’s even a 1 percent chance then take the playoffs.

Unfortunately we have zero shot to win it so why waste time. If we was consistent I would settle for at least a playoff win. But getting there and getting whooped just wasting time and playing with emotions. We had a chance to gain some momentum but the thrill is gon. I want to get to the off-season now. I’m sick of this year and whirlwind has fatigued my mind.

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Playoffs or Better Draft Pick - Would You Rather ...? Dec 18, 2023 17:38:01 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by FSUVike on Dec 18, 2023 17:38:01 GMT -6

Dec 18, 2023 15:22:04 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

Dec 18, 2023 10:03:38 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

7-7 is a turnaround?

lol that is the funny part. Everyone praising these other teams with similar records and not starting 4 diff QBs all year. Just weird behavior. Its todays NFL. Its a week to week league anyone could beat anyone

The Browns are on QB3 and their QB1 stinks anyways. The Colts have ridden Handlebar Mustache Minshew to a Top 10 Scoring Offense with far less skilled players on Offense. Can we please stop acting like Minnesota is the only Team that lost its Starting QB while conveniently ignoring that several Teams in the same boat are consistently performing better on Offense.

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Playoffs or Better Draft Pick - Would You Rather ...? Dec 18, 2023 17:49:52 GMT -6 via mobile Danchat and tfundermann like this

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Post by mngopher35 on Dec 18, 2023 17:49:52 GMT -6

Dec 18, 2023 17:38:01 GMT -6 FSUVike said:

Dec 18, 2023 15:22:04 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

lol that is the funny part. Everyone praising these other teams with similar records and not starting 4 diff QBs all year. Just weird behavior. Its todays NFL. Its a week to week league anyone could beat anyone

The Browns are on QB3 and their QB1 stinks anyways. The Colts have ridden Handlebar Mustache Minshew to a Top 10 Scoring Offense with far less skilled players on Offense. Can we please stop acting like Minnesota is the only Team that lost its Starting QB while conveniently ignoring that several Teams in the same boat are consistently performing better on Offense.

The browns are 24th in ppd and 28th in ypd. The colts are 17th in ppd and 18th in ypd. The Vikings are 16th in ppd and 8th in ypd.

I am not sure how that’s really a great example of other teams dealing with issues consistently doing more offensively.

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Playoffs or Better Draft Pick - Would You Rather ...? Dec 18, 2023 19:04:17 GMT -6

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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2023 19:04:17 GMT -6

Dec 18, 2023 16:53:05 GMT -6 Drank said:

This the question you have to ask. Do you have any shot to be champion? If it’s even a 1 percent chance then take the playoffs.

Unfortunately we have zero shot to win it so why waste time. If we was consistent I would settle for at least a playoff win. But getting there and getting whooped just wasting time and playing with emotions. We had a chance to gain some momentum but the thrill is gon. I want to get to the off-season now. I’m sick of this year and whirlwind has fatigued my mind.

You Too? I guess it isn't early dementia after all. Gotta cancel that Dr's appointment.

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Playoffs or Better Draft Pick - Would You Rather ...? Dec 19, 2023 1:45:04 GMT -6

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Post by vikingpwr on Dec 19, 2023 1:45:04 GMT -6

Dec 18, 2023 15:22:04 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

It is a week-to-week league anyone could beat anyone

I agree, you never know who will win. This season has been fun with all the backup QBs playing. Do ya think the Eagles will sweep the Giants this year? Watch out for Danny Devito!! I know I know, his name is Tommy but Danny sounds waaay better!

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Playoffs or Better Draft Pick - Would You Rather ...? Dec 19, 2023 9:21:49 GMT -6 Purple Pain and mngopher35 like this

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Post by tfundermann on Dec 19, 2023 9:21:49 GMT -6

Dec 18, 2023 17:49:52 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

Dec 18, 2023 17:38:01 GMT -6 FSUVike said:

The Browns are on QB3 and their QB1 stinks anyways. The Colts have ridden Handlebar Mustache Minshew to a Top 10 Scoring Offense with far less skilled players on Offense. Can we please stop acting like Minnesota is the only Team that lost its Starting QB while conveniently ignoring that several Teams in the same boat are consistently performing better on Offense.

The browns are 24th in ppd and 28th in ypd. The colts are 17th in ppd and 18th in ypd. The Vikings are 16th in ppd and 8th in ypd.

I am not sure how that’s really a great example of other teams dealing with issues consistently doing more offensively.

I have to admit this is the part the gets me the most. Yes, the Colts are top 10 in scoring while the Vikings are not. However, the Vikings offense is better than the Colts, and any of the other teams with multiple starting QBs we talk about, in just about every way. The Vikings offense is 11th in EPA, Colts are 17th. Vikings are 12th in total yards per play, Colts are 15th. The Vikings offense has 17 more first downs this year than the Colts. So yes, the Colts are better in a pretty important metric of scoring, but if you look a little deeper it isn't this crazy better offense. Some of it is the competition the Colts have faced vs the Vikings opponents, some is just luck, and a big portion of it is the turnovers from the Vikings. 17% of all Vikings drives this year end in a turnover. That is tops in the NFL, and nearly a full 7% higher than the Colts. The Vikings were at just 11.7% last season compared to the league average of 11.3%. So some of that def falls on KOC and him correcting that during the week, but some of that is his backup QBs have not been good on keeping the ball. Dobbs still leads the league in turnovers! He only has so many QBs he can throw out there to try and correct the issue.

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Playoffs or Better Draft Pick - Would You Rather ...? Dec 19, 2023 9:41:42 GMT -6 via mobile tfundermann likes this

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Post by mngopher35 on Dec 19, 2023 9:41:42 GMT -6

Dec 19, 2023 9:21:49 GMT -6 tfundermann said:

Dec 18, 2023 17:49:52 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

The browns are 24th in ppd and 28th in ypd. The colts are 17th in ppd and 18th in ypd. The Vikings are 16th in ppd and 8th in ypd.

I am not sure how that’s really a great example of other teams dealing with issues consistently doing more offensively.

I have to admit this is the part the gets me the most. Yes, the Colts are top 10 in scoring while the Vikings are not. However, the Vikings offense is better than the Colts, and any of the other teams with multiple starting QBs we talk about, in just about every way. The Vikings offense is 11th in EPA, Colts are 17th. Vikings are 12th in total yards per play, Colts are 15th. The Vikings offense has 17 more first downs this year than the Colts. So yes, the Colts are better in a pretty important metric of scoring, but if you look a little deeper it isn't this crazy better offense. Some of it is the competition the Colts have faced vs the Vikings opponents, some is just luck, and a big portion of it is the turnovers from the Vikings. 17% of all Vikings drives this year end in a turnover. That is tops in the NFL, and nearly a full 7% higher than the Colts. The Vikings were at just 11.7% last season compared to the league average of 11.3%. So some of that def falls on KOC and him correcting that during the week, but some of that is his backup QBs have not been good on keeping the ball. Dobbs still leads the league in turnovers! He only has so many QBs he can throw out there to try and correct the issue.

Agreed. I keep seeing people propping up these other teams and bashing us when the reality is our offense has essentially been better than any other team in the same backup qb situation. Let alone the other issues.

The one other aspect I will add about total scoring is it doesn’t take into account how many drives it took to get those points (which also means how many drives you give the other team. That’s why Cleveland score more per game and also allows more per game. When you break it down into per drive you see their offense is lower end and defense is actually elite. You see the same thing watching the games, the defense is clearly carrying them despite both o and d being ranked 12th per game in total scoring.

Last year we were pretty bad at sustaining drives, it was probably the biggest negative discussed by many about our offense (only showing up in the 4th). We now jumped to 8th in yards per drive and time, a great improvement from 19th and 29th. So now we focus on the totals and ignore that those sustained drives lead to less opportunities? It just makes no sense the levels people are going to get upset. The full context shows a much different story than the narratives being created.

Last Edit: Dec 19, 2023 9:42:19 GMT -6 by mngopher35

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Playoffs or Better Draft Pick - Would You Rather ...? Dec 19, 2023 10:19:02 GMT -6 via mobile tfundermann likes this

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Post by whoskmoon on Dec 19, 2023 10:19:02 GMT -6

Dec 19, 2023 9:41:42 GMT -6 mngopher35 said:

Dec 19, 2023 9:21:49 GMT -6 tfundermann said:

I have to admit this is the part the gets me the most. Yes, the Colts are top 10 in scoring while the Vikings are not. However, the Vikings offense is better than the Colts, and any of the other teams with multiple starting QBs we talk about, in just about every way. The Vikings offense is 11th in EPA, Colts are 17th. Vikings are 12th in total yards per play, Colts are 15th. The Vikings offense has 17 more first downs this year than the Colts. So yes, the Colts are better in a pretty important metric of scoring, but if you look a little deeper it isn't this crazy better offense. Some of it is the competition the Colts have faced vs the Vikings opponents, some is just luck, and a big portion of it is the turnovers from the Vikings. 17% of all Vikings drives this year end in a turnover. That is tops in the NFL, and nearly a full 7% higher than the Colts. The Vikings were at just 11.7% last season compared to the league average of 11.3%. So some of that def falls on KOC and him correcting that during the week, but some of that is his backup QBs have not been good on keeping the ball. Dobbs still leads the league in turnovers! He only has so many QBs he can throw out there to try and correct the issue.

Agreed. I keep seeing people propping up these other teams and bashing us when the reality is our offense has essentially been better than any other team in the same backup qb situation. Let alone the other issues.

The one other aspect I will add about total scoring is it doesn’t take into account how many drives it took to get those points (which also means how many drives you give the other team. That’s why Cleveland score more per game and also allows more per game. When you break it down into per drive you see their offense is lower end and defense is actually elite. You see the same thing watching the games, the defense is clearly carrying them despite both o and d being ranked 12th per game in total scoring.

Last year we were pretty bad at sustaining drives, it was probably the biggest negative discussed by many about our offense (only showing up in the 4th). We now jumped to 8th in yards per drive and time, a great improvement from 19th and 29th. So now we focus on the totals and ignore that those sustained drives lead to less opportunities? It just makes no sense the levels people are going to get upset. The full context shows a much different story than the narratives being created.

To add more context, Minshew is arguably the best backup QB in the league and his career numbers put him as an average starter. Cincy has had their full contingent of receivers playing with their backup while JJ has only played a little more than 1 game.

You put the receivers and run game our backups have played with on Cincy and Browning looks awful. You put Minshew on this team and he is probably better than Kirk.