Is there a QB debate?

diehardtwinsfan
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Is there a QB debate? Nov 14, 2023 9:24:02 GMT -6

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on Nov 14, 2023 9:24:02 GMT -6

Nov 13, 2023 14:01:26 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

No need to burn a draft pick on a QB now that we have 2 to choose from and develop. We can use that pick to get a blue chip defender

I think you draft a QB whether you sign Dobbs or not. The difference being is whether you take a day 2 guy you really like with the 2nd round pick or trade back to the 30-32 range and take the same guy as a reach because you want the 5th year option. I'd still be in favor of giving Dobbs a reasonable deal in this system if he was on board. I guess I don't know if I agree with FSUVike on this one in that I highly doubt multiple teams are going to open up the checkbook for him. He's likely looking at 15-20 on a 2-3 year deal if he continues this level of play. I'd pay him that and not think twice, but I'm still probably drafting a guy and keeping Hall.

We'll have money this offseason, more than enough to sign a blue-chip defender and extend the one we have.

Nov 13, 2023 15:09:11 GMT -6 comet52 said:

but I have seen this movie before and the return on investment tends to be much less than imagined.

yeah, it's the Vikings... it never ends well. That you can bet on.

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Is there a QB debate? Nov 14, 2023 10:12:16 GMT -6 Drank likes this

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Post by Jor-El on Nov 14, 2023 10:12:16 GMT -6

Nov 13, 2023 15:43:11 GMT -6 FSUVike said:

If Kevin can mold a 29 year old journeyman QB who was a 4th Round pick into a serviceable Starter why stop there?

This is a serious question. Imagine what he could do with someone much younger with a higher ceiling. That would cost far less than the 25m floated here for Dobbs. Someone more accurate with a better arm and equal athleticism.

A bridge QB would be nice but O'Connell believed he could get John Wolford to produce well enough to save the season before he declared he wanted to stay on the Bucs Practice Squad. And he got Dobbs ready in a jiffy.

Perhaps a bridge QB isn't even necessary.

You're stepping into dangerous territory that I think we are all being cautious about, but...let's go there. Is Josh Dobbs just a brief Cinderella fairy tale, or is KOC a fairy godmother who permanently changes quarterbacks?

Most people have had the Seahawks on their "need a QBOTF" list since the Russell Wilson trade, but no QB pick at all. They could have grabbed Kenny Pickett in 22 and this year they had the ammunition to jump ahead of Indy and get Anthony Richardson; they might even have been able to get the #1 pick from the Bears. But they're sticking with Geno. Is Pete Carroll a "QB whisperer"?? I wouldn't have thought so, but Russell Wilson hasn't been the same in Denver, while Geno Smith... something to think about.

FSUVike, you referred to "someone much younger with a higher ceiling" - presumably younger than Dobbs. What kind of ceiling are we looking for? Dobbs has a strong arm and every physical trait needed as far as I can tell. Accuracy might be a question mark, but good QB coaching could improve that. Geno Smith was a sub-60% passer before getting to Seattle and his accuracy jumped. Kirk Cousins looked like he was more accurate than ever before in his second season with KOC.

There are a lot of attractive QB prospects on the draft menu for 2024. But we all know that some never adjust to the speed of the NFL, and it's almost impossible to predict. Well, Dobbs has adjusted. OK, he's not 22 with a 15 year career potentially still ahead of him. So what?

So maybe Josh Dobbs could be more than a bridge. Maybe he's the guy - at least until the next guy. Denny Green didn't burn a high draft pick on a QB until Daunte, and it might have been his downfall. (Had he picked Jevon Kearse instead of Culpepper, maybe the Vikings have a couple serious runs in 1999 and/or 2000. Speculation, I know.)

Two games - waaaaay too early, sure. But if it continues, maybe he's our Geno Smith, give him a decent but not exorbitant contract, and we use our draft picks and salary cap elsewhere.

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Is there a QB debate? Nov 14, 2023 12:44:56 GMT -6 via mobile kmillard, ATXVike, and 1 more like this

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Post by FSUVike on Nov 14, 2023 12:44:56 GMT -6

I encourage all of you to pop on over to the DN and read Ludford's piece on Dobbs.

He's crazy inconsistent. Several games with the Cardinals that almost as good as the last couple in purple. And 4 that were really bad. And you can't pin it all on Arizona.

Josh has small hands for a QB and fumbles. Like, a lot. His mechanics are inconsistent. Both his feet and his arm motion. That's what leads to the inaccuracies.

Folks, O'Connell has helped QBs become more accurate because he's designing plays that get targets wide spanking open. Fixing the mechanics of a 29 year old is a whole other thing.

There's a reason he was drafted in the 4th Round. Inaccuracy, doesn't have a great arm. Throws too many pics on deeper throws. Floats the ball instead of firing it into tight windows.

Why settle for that when there are much better prospects to be had in the Draft? Why settle for fumbling issues, a mediocre arm and issued with ball placement?

What I'm seeing here is fans enamored with his scrambling and ability to extend plays with his legs and make off-platform throws.

Guess what? There are 8 college QBs that can do all of those things that are far more accurate passers with stronger arms.

Don't settle. Just because O'Connell can turn a Fiat into a Ferrari doesn't mean we be OK with the Fiat. Give the man a Ferrari and watch out!

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Is there a QB debate? Nov 14, 2023 13:08:30 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Nov 14, 2023 13:08:30 GMT -6

Nov 14, 2023 9:24:02 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

Nov 13, 2023 14:01:26 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

No need to burn a draft pick on a QB now that we have 2 to choose from and develop. We can use that pick to get a blue chip defender

I think you draft a QB whether you sign Dobbs or not. The difference being is whether you take a day 2 guy you really like with the 2nd round pick or trade back to the 30-32 range and take the same guy as a reach because you want the 5th year option. I'd still be in favor of giving Dobbs a reasonable deal in this system if he was on board. I guess I don't know if I agree with FSUVike on this one in that I highly doubt multiple teams are going to open up the checkbook for him. He's likely looking at 15-20 on a 2-3 year deal if he continues this level of play. I'd pay him that and not think twice, but I'm still probably drafting a guy and keeping Hall.

We'll have money this offseason, more than enough to sign a blue-chip defender and extend the one we have.

Nov 13, 2023 15:09:11 GMT -6 comet52 said:

but I have seen this movie before and the return on investment tends to be much less than imagined.

yeah, it's the Vikings... it never ends well. That you can bet on.

We have Hall as the day 2 guy.

I’m not opposed to taking a QB if a guy they like is on the board when they pick but with the stable of 3 guys they have right now that are under contract or can be signed there isn’t a “need” to do it if there is a player at a different position if they like them better

Jor-El
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Is there a QB debate? Nov 14, 2023 13:26:46 GMT -6 FSUVike likes this

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Post by Jor-El on Nov 14, 2023 13:26:46 GMT -6

Nov 14, 2023 12:44:56 GMT -6 FSUVike said:

Don't settle. Just because O'Connell can turn a Fiat into a Ferrari doesn't mean we be OK with the Fiat. Give the man a Ferrari and watch out!

Great review and thanks for that. Makes it sound like he's turned that Fiat into a Mustang - good car but not a Ferrari.

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Is there a QB debate? Nov 14, 2023 13:53:16 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Nov 14, 2023 13:53:16 GMT -6

Nov 14, 2023 13:26:46 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

Nov 14, 2023 12:44:56 GMT -6 FSUVike said:

Don't settle. Just because O'Connell can turn a Fiat into a Ferrari doesn't mean we be OK with the Fiat. Give the man a Ferrari and watch out!

Great review and thanks for that. Makes it sound like he's turned that Fiat into a Mustang - good car but not a Ferrari.

Couldn't agree with this more. All this means is we should be fine journey men QBs while the Vikings try to find their star QB.

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Is there a QB debate? Nov 14, 2023 14:14:21 GMT -6 via mobile kmillard likes this

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Post by Drank on Nov 14, 2023 14:14:21 GMT -6

Nov 14, 2023 13:53:16 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Nov 14, 2023 13:26:46 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

Great review and thanks for that. Makes it sound like he's turned that Fiat into a Mustang - good car but not a Ferrari.

Couldn't agree with this more. All this means is we should be fine journey men QBs while the Vikings try to find their star QB.

Exactly if he keeps playing well resign him. But still take a QB. With Dobbs, Hall, and a high ceiling rookie we in business. KOC nice with QBs give him a top shelf guy to develop for a decade plus. Dobbs may turn out legit, but double and triple down and don’t stop until we holding up trophies.

Last Edit: Nov 14, 2023 14:15:40 GMT -6 by Drank

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Is there a QB debate? Nov 14, 2023 15:34:57 GMT -6

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Post by Danchat on Nov 14, 2023 15:34:57 GMT -6

Nov 14, 2023 13:08:30 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

We have Hall as the day 2 guy.

Hall was a Day 3 pick and a late 5th rounder at that. He'll ideally become the #2 guy but he wouldn't stand in the way of a 2nd or 3rd (Day 2) round pick.

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Is there a QB debate? Nov 14, 2023 17:27:28 GMT -6

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Post by Drank on Nov 14, 2023 17:27:28 GMT -6

Let me resay this, because CC said it today on youtube. I already said it though, Josh Dobbs style reminds me of Randall Cunningham no BS. His game similar how he runs ,passes the ball and his frame. Had to say that before to many people say it and take my thoughts.

We might lose this week, but I feel a run coming up for this year. Dobbs finna ball out most the year. I feel it in my bones SKOL!

Last Edit: Nov 14, 2023 17:31:41 GMT -6 by Drank

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Is there a QB debate? Nov 14, 2023 18:24:42 GMT -6 snotbubbles likes this

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Post by NoresemanSam on Nov 14, 2023 18:24:42 GMT -6

Nov 13, 2023 15:53:25 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

Nov 13, 2023 15:28:49 GMT -6 Uncle said:

I'd like to think Denny was somewhat of a "QB guru" in the 90's as we went to the postseason with different QB's and he was able to adapt and have success w/ whomever was behind center...

Yeah, I was about to say Denny myself. Good lord, the guy got mileage out of Jeff George! Not to mention Jim McMahon, and Randall Cunningham was living on the street when Denny brought him to an MVP season.

I'm pretty sure it was the duo of HOF receivers....

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Is there a QB debate? Nov 14, 2023 20:20:33 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Nov 14, 2023 20:20:33 GMT -6

Nov 14, 2023 15:34:57 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Nov 14, 2023 13:08:30 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

We have Hall as the day 2 guy.

Hall was a Day 3 pick and a late 5th rounder at that. He'll ideally become the #2 guy but he wouldn't stand in the way of a 2nd or 3rd (Day 2) round pick.

It’s all speculation wouldn’t you agree?

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Is there a QB debate? Nov 14, 2023 20:43:05 GMT -6

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Post by Oracle Bone Diviner on Nov 14, 2023 20:43:05 GMT -6

Nov 14, 2023 15:34:57 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Nov 14, 2023 13:08:30 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

We have Hall as the day 2 guy.

Hall was a Day 3 pick and a late 5th rounder at that. He'll ideally become the #2 guy but he wouldn't stand in the way of a 2nd or 3rd (Day 2) round pick.

Isn't that rather Vikings of you to only hope for him, ideally, to be 2nd best based on the draft? How much greater are the odds that someone we pick in the 2nd or 3rd, who we don't even know the name of, will be better? That seems like a bad gamble until and unless you know who you are getting.

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Is there a QB debate? Nov 14, 2023 22:23:56 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

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Post by Danchat on Nov 14, 2023 22:23:56 GMT -6

Nov 14, 2023 20:20:33 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

It’s all speculation wouldn’t you agree?

My point was that Day 2 = 2nd & 3rd round, while Day 3 = 4th round and on. Hall could rise to the level of a Day 2 guy but that's not where he was drafted.

Nov 14, 2023 20:43:05 GMT -6 Oracle Bone Diviner said:

Isn't that rather Vikings of you to only hope for him, ideally, to be 2nd best based on the draft? How much greater are the odds that someone we pick in the 2nd or 3rd, who we don't even know the name of, will be better? That seems like a bad gamble until and unless you know who you are getting.

OK, yeah ideally he'll become a top 10 QB. My disillusionment comes more from years of draft analysis of seeing prospects I like flame out time after time rather than as a Vikings fan.

I see don't see why we (and seemingly NFL teams) should be opposed to taking multiple rolls of the dice on a QB. The odds of a 3rd round QB (around 15%) and a 5th rounder (2%) are rather low, why not take both? Best case scenario you have a starter and a good backup. Worst case scenario you missed on a couple mid picks of which the odds of hitting on another position aren't high enough to be too worried about it.

I'm also not sure if Hall is going to be durable enough to be an NFL starter with all of the problems he had in college, plus he didn't even make it to the third drive of his first career start. That's a pretty big problem to overcome outside of all the other hurdles.

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Is there a QB debate? Nov 14, 2023 22:49:43 GMT -6 Drank likes this

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Post by Raptorman on Nov 14, 2023 22:49:43 GMT -6

Nov 14, 2023 12:44:56 GMT -6 FSUVike said:

Guess what? There are 8 college QBs that can do all of those things that are far more accurate passers with stronger arms.

None of which can do crap to help the Vikings right now, this year. So what if there are 8 college QBs capable of doing it? As long as Dobbs continues to do it this year, I don't give a crap.

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Is there a QB debate? Nov 14, 2023 22:52:28 GMT -6 via mobile Jor-El likes this

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Post by Drank on Nov 14, 2023 22:52:28 GMT -6

I like Hall but can he hold up? The college injuries and he is mighty little with that small frame. He has some talent but will have to overcome some things to be a guy you can count on game after game and year after year.

Last Edit: Nov 14, 2023 22:53:27 GMT -6 by Drank