So, you want to win a Super Bowl.

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So, you want to win a Super Bowl. Oct 31, 2023 10:44:49 GMT -6 CAMartin likes this

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Post by Raptorman on Oct 31, 2023 10:44:49 GMT -6

This isn't rocket science people. Do you want to win the Super Bowl? You have to have a larger difference between how many points you score and how many you give up greater than 2 points per game. It's not all on the QB. From the first Super Bowl until the year 2000 that difference was about 11 points per game during the year. Since 2001, it's dropped to around 7.5.

The odds of a team winning the Super Bowl with a point differential of 1 or 2 points per game during the year are way too high. Only one team has ever done it. So it's not impossible, just improbable. The following are the last 15 winners of the Super Bowl, points scored for and against. Now, can anyone tell me what makes you think that the Vikings giving up 24 and 25 ppg on defense the past two years could in any way get them to the Super Bowl? But it is Cousins' fault because he couldn't get it done. Right? But I'm told I don't know what I'm talking about. It's all about the QB and how a new QB is going to change the outcome of the Vikings in the playoffs. No, it won't. Not unless he defense changes first.

So, go ahead and blame Cousins all you want, and hope the next QB can score at least as many points per game as he has. But don't b*tch when nothing changes on the defense and the Vikings once again end up on the short end of the stick in the playoffs because they are giving up 24 ppg on defense. And I know some of you will say the QB drives the defense. And TOP. Fine. Explain why Rodgers and Favre only have one ring. Rodgers won the only year he had top 5 defense in points. And Favre won when he had he number 1 defense in points. The following year it was 5 and they lost the Super Bowl. After that, the Packers defense went down hill and it wasn't until 2007 when Favre had the 6th ranked defense that he made it back to the Conference game.

But, I don't know what I'm talking about.

Year	Team	                W   L	T	TOTAL 	      OPOINTS  DPOINTS  DIF	OPPG	DPPG	DIFFERENCE	 QB

2022	Kansas City Chiefs*	14  3	0	17	Won SB	496	369	127	29.2	21.7	  7.5		Mahomes
2021	Los Angeles Rams*	12  5	0	17	Won SB	460	372	88	27.1	21.9	  5.2		Stafford
2020	Tampa Bay Buccaneers*	11  5	0	16	Won SB	492	355	137	30.8	22.2	  8.6		Brady
2019	Kansas City Chiefs*	12  4	0	16	Won SB	451	308	143	28.2	19.3	  8.9		Mahomes
2018	New England Patriots*	11  5	0	16	Won SB	436	325	111	27.3	20.3	  6.9		Brady
2017	Philadelphia Eagles*	13  3	0	16	Won SB	457	295	162	28.6	18.4	 10.1		Wentz
2016	New England Patriots*	14  2	0	16	Won SB	441	250	191	27.6	15.6	 11.9		Brady
2015	Denver Broncos*	        12  4	0	16	Won SB	355	296	59	22.2	18.5	  3.7		P.Manning
2014	New England Patriots*	12  4	0	16	Won SB	468	313	155	29.3	19.6	  9.7		Brady
2013	Seattle Seahawks*	13  3	0	16	Won SB	417	231	186	26.1	14.4	 11.6		Wilson
2012	Baltimore Ravens*	10  6	0	16	Won SB	398	344	54	24.9	21.5	  3.4		Flacco
2011	New York Giants*	 9  7	0	16	Won SB	394	400	-6	24.6	25.0	 -0.4		E. Manning
2010	Green Bay Packers*	10  6	0	16	Won SB	388	240	148	24.3	15.0	  9.3		Rodgers
2009	New Orleans Saints*	13  3	0	16	Won SB	510	341	169	31.9	21.3	 10.6		Brees
2008	Pittsburgh Steelers*	12  4	0	16	Won SB	347	223	124	21.7	13.9	  7.8		Roethlisberger

								Averages		26.9	19.2	  7.6

Last Edit: Oct 31, 2023 10:45:15 GMT -6 by Raptorman

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So, you want to win a Super Bowl. Oct 31, 2023 10:54:27 GMT -6 Reignman, kmillard, and 2 more like this

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Post by Oracle Bone Diviner on Oct 31, 2023 10:54:27 GMT -6

Only 3 4 NFC teams scored fewer points than the Vikings in 2018. Meanwhile, only 2 NFC teams had fewer points against. I don't understand why we didn't go to the Super Bowl? Was it the defense's fault?

Last Edit: Oct 31, 2023 11:07:12 GMT -6 by Oracle Bone Diviner

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Raptorman
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So, you want to win a Super Bowl. Oct 31, 2023 11:17:10 GMT -6

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Post by Raptorman on Oct 31, 2023 11:17:10 GMT -6

Oct 31, 2023 10:54:27 GMT -6 Oracle Bone Diviner said:

Only 3 4 NFC teams scored fewer points than the Vikings in 2018. Meanwhile, only 2 NFC teams had fewer points against. I don't understand why we didn't go to the Super Bowl? Was it the defense's fault?

Ah yes. We did it one year so we should have gone argument. This isn't about one year. Yes, you can do it. Some have. Rodgers, Johnson. A few others. Favre had 5 years of a top defense. He won one Super Bowl in those 5 years. This isn't about one year, this is about multiple years allowing you to have a better chance at winning a Super Bowl. But go ahead criticize it. Make fun of it. Tell us how it's done. Tell us how you would do it.

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So, you want to win a Super Bowl. Oct 31, 2023 11:33:11 GMT -6 via mobile kmillard likes this

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Post by TAFKASP on Oct 31, 2023 11:33:11 GMT -6

Were we placing the blame on Kirk? I've always said he could win it all if the rest of the team was loaded. I think most of us felt Kirk was good QB, but not good enough to take the imperfect Vikings teams over the top, especially at his price.

His clutch play this season could have changed some minds if he didn't get hurt. Oh well, sucks, but life goes on.

Last Edit: Oct 31, 2023 11:33:34 GMT -6 by TAFKASP

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Breeze Pro Bowl Imaginal Cell Posts: 2,160 Likes: 1,813	So, you want to win a Super Bowl. Oct 31, 2023 11:34:33 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Breeze on Oct 31, 2023 11:34:33 GMT -6 nm
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Raptorman
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So, you want to win a Super Bowl. Oct 31, 2023 12:15:34 GMT -6 gophersturf10 likes this

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Post by Raptorman on Oct 31, 2023 12:15:34 GMT -6

Oct 31, 2023 11:33:11 GMT -6 TAFKASP said:

Were we placing the blame on Kirk? I've always said he could win it all if the rest of the team was loaded. I think most of us felt Kirk was good QB, but not good enough to take the imperfect Vikings teams over the top, especially at his price.

His clutch play this season could have changed some minds if he didn't get hurt. Oh well, sucks, but life goes on.

Wow. You haven't been reading the threads on Cousins have you? Fun fact, no QB is good enough to take an imperfect team over the top. It's a myth. You can't find one example of a QB taking an imperfect team over the top.

You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.

TAFKASP
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So, you want to win a Super Bowl. Oct 31, 2023 12:21:03 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by TAFKASP on Oct 31, 2023 12:21:03 GMT -6

Oct 31, 2023 12:15:34 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Oct 31, 2023 11:33:11 GMT -6 TAFKASP said:

Were we placing the blame on Kirk? I've always said he could win it all if the rest of the team was loaded. I think most of us felt Kirk was good QB, but not good enough to take the imperfect Vikings teams over the top, especially at his price.

His clutch play this season could have changed some minds if he didn't get hurt. Oh well, sucks, but life goes on.

Wow. You haven't been reading the threads on Cousins have you? Fun fact, no QB is good enough to take an imperfect team over the top. It's a myth. You can't find one example of a QB taking an imperfect team over the top.

You're correct, the Kirk hate threads got boring a long time ago. I've always enjoyed your defense if him, though I didn't always agree. It would have been interesting to see if Kirk could maintain his high level of play this season.

There is a large gap between how much Kirk can overcome/elevate versus Mahomes and the like. Kirk was always a poor choice given the joke of a line in front of him, until this season. Of course, if the mine maturing then now is the time to move on to a young QB IMO.

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So, you want to win a Super Bowl. Oct 31, 2023 12:24:17 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by Funkytown on Oct 31, 2023 12:24:17 GMT -6

Raptorman, any way you can screenshot your stats, upload them to a site like imgur, and then share that image here? Just a suggestion. It gets mangled otherwise. Or maybe Reignman has a better suggestion.

Last Edit: Oct 31, 2023 12:24:26 GMT -6 by Funkytown

indianavikes
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So, you want to win a Super Bowl. Oct 31, 2023 12:31:11 GMT -6 gophersturf10 likes this

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Post by indianavikes on Oct 31, 2023 12:31:11 GMT -6

Hell Yes, I do want Vikings win SB before I die. I’ve been waiting for 60 years. With KAM in charge, Vikings are not gonna win a SB game. Z I have no confidence in him at all. I’m not impressed with him. He is very terrible with the drafts last 2 years. He has to go!

Raptorman
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So, you want to win a Super Bowl. Oct 31, 2023 12:37:41 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

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Post by Raptorman on Oct 31, 2023 12:37:41 GMT -6

Oct 31, 2023 12:24:17 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Raptorman , any way you can screenshot your stats, upload them to a site like imgur, and then share that image here? Just a suggestion. It gets mangled otherwise. Or maybe Reignman has a better suggestion.

Their mangled? Ah, on the phone. How is this?

You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.

Raptorman
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So, you want to win a Super Bowl. Oct 31, 2023 12:51:31 GMT -6

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Post by Raptorman on Oct 31, 2023 12:51:31 GMT -6

Oct 31, 2023 12:21:03 GMT -6 TAFKASP said:

Oct 31, 2023 12:15:34 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Wow. You haven't been reading the threads on Cousins have you? Fun fact, no QB is good enough to take an imperfect team over the top. It's a myth. You can't find one example of a QB taking an imperfect team over the top.

You're correct, the Kirk hate threads got boring a long time ago. I've always enjoyed your defense if him, though I didn't always agree. It would have been interesting to see if Kirk could maintain his high level of play this season.

There is a large gap between how much Kirk can overcome/elevate versus Mahomes and the like. Kirk was always a poor choice given the joke of a line in front of him, until this season. Of course, if the mine maturing then now is the time to move on to a young QB IMO.

I have never said that a good QB isn't needed to win the Super Bowl. You need a reasonably good QB and good Defense. It's all about the difference in offensive points and defensive points. The greater the distance, the better chance you have of winning. Doing in one year? Yeah, it can and has been done. Doing it without a good point differential? It can and has been done. But it's not th norm. Look at just about any team that won the Super Bowl over the years and you see a point differential of at least 7 points per game. And not for one year, for years. Look at New England. Every Super Bowl they won with Brady they had a defense ranked 8th or better in points. 18 seasons with a top 10 defense or better. 6 SB wins, 2 SB losses, 4 Conference game losses, 1 Division and 3 WC losses. 16 playoff years out of 18. Now he has 5 years outside the top 10 in defense. 1 lost SB and 1 lost Divisional game. And people think if you have a good defense for one year an new QB should be able to take you all the way. In your dreams maybe. You want long term succusses in the NFL, work on the defense first and foremost.

You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.

TAFKASP
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So, you want to win a Super Bowl. Oct 31, 2023 13:09:35 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by TAFKASP on Oct 31, 2023 13:09:35 GMT -6

Oct 31, 2023 12:51:31 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Oct 31, 2023 12:21:03 GMT -6 TAFKASP said:

You're correct, the Kirk hate threads got boring a long time ago. I've always enjoyed your defense if him, though I didn't always agree. It would have been interesting to see if Kirk could maintain his high level of play this season.

There is a large gap between how much Kirk can overcome/elevate versus Mahomes and the like. Kirk was always a poor choice given the joke of a line in front of him, until this season. Of course, if the mine maturing then now is the time to move on to a young QB IMO.

I have never said that a good QB isn't needed to win the Super Bowl. You need a reasonably good QB and good Defense. It's all about the difference in offensive points and defensive points. The greater the distance, the better chance you have of winning. Doing in one year? Yeah, it can and has been done. Doing it without a good point differential? It can and has been done. But it's not th norm. Look at just about any team that won the Super Bowl over the years and you see a point differential of at least 7 points per game. And not for one year, for years. Look at New England. Every Super Bowl they won with Brady they had a defense ranked 8th or better in points. 18 seasons with a top 10 defense or better. 6 SB wins, 2 SB losses, 4 Conference game losses, 1 Division and 3 WC losses. 16 playoff years out of 18. Now he has 5 years outside the top 10 in defense. 1 lost SB and 1 lost Divisional game. And people think if you have a good defense for one year an new QB should be able to take you all the way. In your dreams maybe. You want long term succusses in the NFL, work on the defense first and foremost.

I'd bet it could be even more focused on the On-line and defensive front 7. The D was still top 10 when Kirk was signed, the line was bottom 5. The best teams tend to dominate the trenches.

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So, you want to win a Super Bowl. Oct 31, 2023 13:33:19 GMT -6

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Post by Raptorman on Oct 31, 2023 13:33:19 GMT -6

Oct 31, 2023 13:09:35 GMT -6 TAFKASP said:

I'd bet it could be even more focused on the On-line and defensive front 7. The D was still top 10 when Kirk was signed, the line was bottom 5. The best teams tend to dominate the trenches.

And they lost to San Fran, who was 8th in points on defense and 2nd on points in offense. That's why I say, you can't depend on it for one year or two. It has to be an ongoing deal. Look at KC since Mahomes got there. An average of 7.7 points per game in the positive for the team. And what's that given them? 2 SB Victories, 1 loss and 2 conference losses. What's the Viking's status the same five years? 1.2 ppg, 6.5 ppg, -2.8 ppg, -.1 ppg, and -.2 ppg. No way you win a Super Bowl with those numbers. Remember, Cousins can't get it done. In order to put up the kind of number that KC had in differential, Cousins would have had to score over 32 ppg over 5 years. Even the Chiefs are only scoring 29 ppg. But people expect a new QB to come in and everything will be alright. Prepare for disappointment.

Last Edit: Oct 31, 2023 13:37:42 GMT -6 by Raptorman

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So, you want to win a Super Bowl. Oct 31, 2023 13:35:55 GMT -6 via mobile Funkytown, whuisman, and 2 more like this

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Post by mikenessfan on Oct 31, 2023 13:35:55 GMT -6

There is no secret to it. The formula has been proven time and time again over the last 20 something years. It has proven right much more than wrong. You make the strength of the team both offensive and defensive lines and invest heavy there (fa’s and draft capital) and the other spot is qb. You have those 3 spots focused on and the rest will fall in place. Oh and have at least an above average hc who can make adjustments in game.

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So, you want to win a Super Bowl. Oct 31, 2023 16:13:19 GMT -6 Funkytown and Josey Wales like this

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Post by Will on Oct 31, 2023 16:13:19 GMT -6

The formula gets tweaked from year to year. A top offense really helps, and a top defense makes a difference too. When SB games are not blowouts, a clutch QB is also important. Recently, the Chiefs are the dominant team with a very good Coach, a great QB, great receivers, and good lines on both sides. Before that, it was the Patriots who won with great game plans, good defenses, and a great, clutch QB.

The Vikings have been short on the O-Line until this year, and the defense has been weak since 2020 until the improvement this year. Cousins did have the talent and the leadership to win under KO. It was unlikely without a few more difference makers on D; beating a balanced team like the Eagles will be tough.

Cousins became a better QB and a respected leader under KO. I still like the idea of a young QB that allows you to build a strong team around him, but most QBs taken high don't win a Super Bowl. And many QBs taken high don't even succeed in the NFL. It is a tough business to win when 32 teams want to win the Super Bowl.