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pinfante79
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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 29, 2023 17:49:38 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by pinfante79 on Oct 29, 2023 17:49:38 GMT -6

Oct 29, 2023 17:45:27 GMT -6 mikenessfan said:

Oct 29, 2023 17:34:56 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

You're right hopefully we can get another Ponder he's just as productive as Kirk Cousins 🙄....

We could all literally spin numbers and stats to prove any point we want to prove.

The truth is if you get to the playoffs and Kirk Cousins is your quarterback you have hope which is more than this franchise usually has because we're a loser franchise... When you get there with Ponder you have no hope and you're just happy to be there because it's nice to get one extra game...f*ck that.

Sorry, but you sound like a loser with thst post and a losers mentality. Btw when has the current fo made any picks at qb outside of a 5th round kid in Hall who is in his rookie year? Don’t judge the current regime with last failures to identify a young franchise qb in the draft. They are not equal.

Okay you're probably much younger than me drink the Kool-Aid all you want you'll get there eventually... Like I said I'm going to love when I'm wrong but I'm just going to assume everyone is garbage because the last time it took us by my count 26 different quarterbacks to go through before we found one that started six seasons for us in a row... It's hard no matter what franchise you are.

Oh and we haven't drafted a franchise quarterback in over 50 years.

Please don't follow me on Twitter @pi_Unmasked

whoskmoon
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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 29, 2023 17:50:58 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Oct 29, 2023 17:50:58 GMT -6

Oct 29, 2023 17:37:41 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Oct 29, 2023 17:35:07 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

2018 and 2019 had more talent than the 2015 team and similar talent to the 2017 team. You are dreaming.

The o line in 15 and 17 was so much better at least up until about week 16 in 2017 when we lost one of our starters on like a field goal or something after that the o line fell apart for years. The offensive line was trash in the 17 playoffs. It all went downhill in that game versus Green Bay on like a stupid play that shouldn't even have happened because of a bad penalty or something I don't exactly remember.

I think the thing that we learned about Kirk Cousins these past couple years is that he's a pocket passer and that if you're going to invest all that into a pocket passer and want him to be one of the best players in the NFL you have to protect him. We failed to do that from 2018 through 2021.

And if our next quarterback is a pocket passer they're coming into a pretty good situation and if they are scrambler or a mobile quarterback then maybe we don't need to pay as much for the o line...

We didn't really have congruency between the quarterback and the type of offensive line until last year. Darrisaw is an animal, love that dude.

Kirk was pressured on 38.6% of his dropbacks in 2018.

Keenum was pressured on 39.5% in 2017.

Bridgewater was pressured a league leading 46.1% (the highest percentage since 2015 of ANY QB) in 2015.

mikenessfan
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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 29, 2023 17:54:31 GMT -6 via mobile legendsofthenorth likes this

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Post by mikenessfan on Oct 29, 2023 17:54:31 GMT -6

Oct 29, 2023 17:49:38 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Oct 29, 2023 17:45:27 GMT -6 mikenessfan said:

Sorry, but you sound like a loser with thst post and a losers mentality. Btw when has the current fo made any picks at qb outside of a 5th round kid in Hall who is in his rookie year? Don’t judge the current regime with last failures to identify a young franchise qb in the draft. They are not equal.

Okay you're probably much younger than me drink the Kool-Aid all you want you'll get there eventually... Like I said I'm going to love when I'm wrong but I'm just going to assume everyone is garbage because the last time it took us by my count 26 different quarterbacks to go through before we found one that started six seasons for us in a row... It's hard no matter what franchise you are.

Oh and we haven't drafted a franchise quarterback in over 50 years.

I am 42 years old. I get it as I have been a Viking fan my whole life. I remember seeing tommy kramer play sitting in my uncles couch watching the Vikings in the late 80’s. I get it man it is easy to become jaded in thinking it’s impossible to draft a franchise qb. But you keep trying and guess what? We have a completely different fo than the prior regime who struggled so bad to find a young qb the gm brought in Kirk and essentially admitted he couldn’t do it. But we have a new gm and even more important a hc who was a former nfl qb and offensive minded guy. So let’s give them a chance or a couple if they fail the first time around. Try to have some faith. Otherwise what’s the point of watching this team every season?

ratsalad
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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 29, 2023 22:07:21 GMT -6 via mobile Minniman, whuisman, and 1 more like this

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Post by ratsalad on Oct 29, 2023 22:07:21 GMT -6

Implying we weren't already in QB hell with Cousins. It only took his robot ass 6 years, 1 elite WR, a second up and coming elite receiver, a top 10 TE, and a top 10 OL before he started to look like he MIGHT get his sh*t together. Cal me crazy, but I won't miss him. He was overpaid, overhyped, and frankly was never going to take us to the promised land. So yeah, if that was his last game as a Viking, I'm fine with that.

pinfante79
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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 6:59:51 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by pinfante79 on Oct 30, 2023 6:59:51 GMT -6

Oct 29, 2023 22:07:21 GMT -6 ratsalad said:

Implying we weren't already in QB hell with Cousins. It only took his robot ass 6 years, 1 elite WR, a second up and coming elite receiver, a top 10 TE, and a top 10 OL before he started to look like he MIGHT get his sh*t together. Cal me crazy, but I won't miss him. He was overpaid, overhyped, and frankly was never going to take us to the promised land. So yeah, if that was his last game as a Viking, I'm fine with that.

Maybe it just took that long for YOU to see it...

It was always quite obvious to me that you have to protect a pocket passer...

There was never any congruency between the quarterback and the offensive line I've stated this in another thread but if we bring in another quarterback that is a pocket passer it's going to be just as important to keep this line together. If you bring in a more mobile quarterback you could spend less on the offensive line like they did with Russell Wilson in Seattle for years.

You didn't need Jefferson as bad as you needed the offensive line for Kirk Cousins. Kirk Cousins could go to war with a handful of average receivers if his line is good enough. Like he did in Washington. The offensive line in Washington was fairly solid.

Please don't follow me on Twitter @pi_Unmasked

bdillon0820
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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 7:52:29 GMT -6 via mobile ratsalad likes this

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Post by bdillon0820 on Oct 30, 2023 7:52:29 GMT -6

We've basically been in QB hell since Culpepper left with a few years of good to great QB play sprinkled in (Favre, Keenum, etc.). This injury might be a blessing in disguise because it allows the Vikings to see what we might have in Hall. We can also finally move on from Cousins as well. We have 4 wins and probably won't get the first pick, but we can always trade up in the draft if Hall doesn't pan out.

Minniman
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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 8:15:45 GMT -6 andhesloose28 and ratsalad like this

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Post by Minniman on Oct 30, 2023 8:15:45 GMT -6

Oct 29, 2023 16:06:42 GMT -6 ATXVike said:

F*ck I keep thinking of the sh*tty 80's hair band song by Cinderalla Don't know what you got til it's gone! I wasn't a KC fan for the long run...but gggggeeeez he was killin'n it the last few games and I was truelly a believer. Maybe not a Kirkistan level like some but hopeful to just be worthy of the PO's. Damn I feel bad for him and his family. This is at least a one plus yr recovery injury.

I don't feel bad for Kirk and his family. He has hundreds of millions of dollars in the bank, and he likely has insurance against this type of injury. I have seen high school and college players have this happen, and they have never earned a penny from football.

Considering all the death and destruction around the world, this is comparatively minor and relatively trivial. Yes, it sucks for him, but I don't feel bad for him.

Logic is the beginning of wisdom - not the end.

Minniman
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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 8:17:00 GMT -6 ratsalad likes this

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Post by Minniman on Oct 30, 2023 8:17:00 GMT -6

Oct 29, 2023 17:14:56 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

As far as returning to qb hell, keep in mind we were division champs in two of the three years before we signed Kirk

We went from QB hell to cap hell in one signing. Which is worse?

Logic is the beginning of wisdom - not the end.

Minniman
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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 8:23:35 GMT -6 ratsalad likes this

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Post by Minniman on Oct 30, 2023 8:23:35 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 7:52:29 GMT -6 bdillon0820 said:

We've basically been in QB hell since Culpepper left with a few years of good to great QB play sprinkled in (Favre, Keenum, etc.). This injury might be a blessing in disguise because it allows the Vikings to see what we might have in Hall. We can also finally move on from Cousins as well. We have 4 wins and probably won't get the first pick, but we can always trade up in the draft if Hall doesn't pan out.

I broke down Culpepper's play on another board long ago. He wasn't the answer. I predicted that the loss of Randy Moss as a 20 yard outlet route would expose Culpepper as a fraud. I said, at that time, the Vikings should draft Aaron Rodgers if he drops.

The Vikings were in QB hell, and they didn't even know it. The Packers, on the other hand, had a HoF QB, and they still drafted Rodgers as his replacement.

Logic is the beginning of wisdom - not the end.

Josey Wales
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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 8:25:00 GMT -6 Minniman likes this

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Post by Josey Wales on Oct 30, 2023 8:25:00 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 8:15:45 GMT -6 Minniman said:

Oct 29, 2023 16:06:42 GMT -6 ATXVike said:

F*ck I keep thinking of the sh*tty 80's hair band song by Cinderalla Don't know what you got til it's gone! I wasn't a KC fan for the long run...but gggggeeeez he was killin'n it the last few games and I was truelly a believer. Maybe not a Kirkistan level like some but hopeful to just be worthy of the PO's. Damn I feel bad for him and his family. This is at least a one plus yr recovery injury.

I don't feel bad for Kirk and his family. He has hundreds of millions of dollars in the bank, and he likely has insurance against this type of injury. I have seen high school and college players have this happen, and they have never earned a penny from football.

Considering all the death and destruction around the world, this is comparatively minor and relatively trivial. Yes, it sucks for him, but I don't feel bad for him.

The 2 aren't mutually exclusive.

Comparatively, OF COURSE genocide and the murder of innocents should take precedence over a millionaire's football injury, but does that mean you can't feel bad for both?

The former should obviously receive the majority of your sympathy, but it baffles me that people can have the, "meh, just deal with it", mentality simply because the player didn't perform up to their expectations, even though he poured his heart and soul into his play.

If this were JJ, would you "not feel bad" for him?

Minniman
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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 8:35:10 GMT -6 ratsalad likes this

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Post by Minniman on Oct 30, 2023 8:35:10 GMT -6

Oct 29, 2023 17:16:50 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Oct 29, 2023 16:48:57 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Hasn't worked out so far for 2nd overall pick Zach Wilson... and he's got way more talent than Hill.

Another example of anyone who thinks they can evaluate QBs is blowing smoke... It's all a lottery ticket. Evaluation on the QB position is all wasted time and nonsense for people who wanna seem smart...

As always in every sport, the draft is series of educated guesses. Some scouts and GMs are more educated than others, and some have more time and resources to evaluate than others, but it isn't a random lottery ticket. It isn't like picking names from a hat.

If the Vikings don't have a ready backup on Cat 2 for Cousins, that is their fault and their failure to prepare. A team should always be grooming another potential starter. Having backups that have no potential to step in and start is almost as bad as leaving your wing man.

"Talk to me, Kirk."

Logic is the beginning of wisdom - not the end.

whoskmoon
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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 8:42:07 GMT -6 via mobile Minniman and ratsalad like this

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Post by whoskmoon on Oct 30, 2023 8:42:07 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 8:25:00 GMT -6 Josey Wales said:

Oct 30, 2023 8:15:45 GMT -6 Minniman said:

I don't feel bad for Kirk and his family. He has hundreds of millions of dollars in the bank, and he likely has insurance against this type of injury. I have seen high school and college players have this happen, and they have never earned a penny from football.

Considering all the death and destruction around the world, this is comparatively minor and relatively trivial. Yes, it sucks for him, but I don't feel bad for him.

The 2 aren't mutually exclusive.

Comparatively, OF COURSE genocide and the murder of innocents should take precedence over a millionaire's football injury, but does that mean you can't feel bad for both?

The former should obviously receive the majority of your sympathy, but it baffles me that people can have the, "meh, just deal with it", mentality simply because the player didn't perform up to their expectations, even though he poured his heart and soul into his play.

If this were JJ, would you "not feel bad" for him?

I didn't feel bad for JJ when he did go down earlier. He is still going to make his money and all this means for him is fewer life altering hits.

Same goes for Cousins. He has his money, and he has an ankle injury he likely fully recovers from. He will be fine.

whoskmoon
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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 8:47:21 GMT -6 via mobile Minniman likes this

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Post by whoskmoon on Oct 30, 2023 8:47:21 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 8:35:10 GMT -6 Minniman said:

Oct 29, 2023 17:16:50 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Another example of anyone who thinks they can evaluate QBs is blowing smoke... It's all a lottery ticket. Evaluation on the QB position is all wasted time and nonsense for people who wanna seem smart...

As always in every sport, the draft is series of educated guesses. Some scouts and GMs are more educated than others, and some have more time and resources to evaluate than others, but it isn't a random lottery ticket. It isn't like picking names from a hat.

If the Vikings don't have a ready backup on Cat 2 for Cousins, that is their fault and their failure to prepare. A team should always be grooming another potential starter. Having backups that have no potential to step in and start is almost as bad as leaving your wing man.

"Talk to me, Kirk."

They had a quality backup who probably comes in and wins at least 5 more games this season with how the D, oline and receivers are playing and with the easy wins left on the schedule. We will see if he can come back after the injury and save the season and if he doesn't, that isn't necessarily a bad thing either. Imagine if the 2016 Vikings had stuck with Hill and he sucked, how much better that would have been for the franchise?

Minniman
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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 8:48:43 GMT -6 ratsalad likes this

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Post by Minniman on Oct 30, 2023 8:48:43 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 8:25:00 GMT -6 Josey Wales said:

Oct 30, 2023 8:15:45 GMT -6 Minniman said:

I don't feel bad for Kirk and his family. He has hundreds of millions of dollars in the bank, and he likely has insurance against this type of injury. I have seen high school and college players have this happen, and they have never earned a penny from football.

Considering all the death and destruction around the world, this is comparatively minor and relatively trivial. Yes, it sucks for him, but I don't feel bad for him.

The 2 aren't mutually exclusive.

Comparatively, OF COURSE genocide and the murder of innocents should take precedence over a millionaire's football injury, but does that mean you can't feel bad for both?

The former should obviously receive the majority of your sympathy, but it baffles me that people can have the, "meh, just deal with it", mentality simply because the player didn't perform up to their expectations, even though he poured his heart and soul into his play.

If this were JJ, would you "not feel bad" for him?

Nope.

I have little empathy for modern sports players that demand hundreds of millions of dollars from teams and have little loyalty to either the team or the fans. If this was 1970, sure. This isn't 1970.

That's one of the reasons people root for Tom Brady; he was willing to give up tens of millions of dollars to win. For those who say he had a rich wife, that is valid, but it is moot, as players like Kirk Cousins certainly have enough money in the bank to give a little to win, and so will JJ.

Remember that a Vulcan deals in logic rather than emotion in these situations.

Logic is the beginning of wisdom - not the end.

Minniman
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Welcome back to QB hell... Oct 30, 2023 8:56:19 GMT -6

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Post by Minniman on Oct 30, 2023 8:56:19 GMT -6

Oct 30, 2023 8:47:21 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Oct 30, 2023 8:35:10 GMT -6 Minniman said:

As always in every sport, the draft is series of educated guesses. Some scouts and GMs are more educated than others, and some have more time and resources to evaluate than others, but it isn't a random lottery ticket. It isn't like picking names from a hat.

If the Vikings don't have a ready backup on Cat 2 for Cousins, that is their fault and their failure to prepare. A team should always be grooming another potential starter. Having backups that have no potential to step in and start is almost as bad as leaving your wing man.

"Talk to me, Kirk."

They had a quality backup who probably comes in and wins at least 5 more games this season with how the D, oline and receivers are playing and with the easy wins left on the schedule. We will see if he can come back after the injury and save the season and if he doesn't, that isn't necessarily a bad thing either. Imagine if the 2016 Vikings had stuck with Hill and he sucked, how much better that would have been for the franchise?

Cousins will not be back this season. A partial tear is 9 months; a full tear is longer. Kirk Cousins will likely not be ready to play football until mid season in 2024.

We will see if the Vikings have a capable backup or not.

Logic is the beginning of wisdom - not the end.