I see a "pattern"

mnmark30
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I see a "pattern" Oct 9, 2023 9:22:26 GMT -6 via mobile HunterMorrow likes this

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Post by mnmark30 on Oct 9, 2023 9:22:26 GMT -6

What has changed that has caused vikings to fall apart from last year?

Well we lost Kendricks, Thielen, Cook....who am I missing?

This happens everytime we have a good year, we loose or trade off our best guys.
It happened with Moss, Cook, John Randle, Randell McDaniel, Adrian Peterson, Harrison Smith, Jared Allen, Robert Griffith, Robert Smith.... I could go on and on..

All these guys were lost due to contract ending, or traded off, or free agency, right after their best year with the Vikings. Then the following year the Vikings sucked!!!

Why do they continue to do this???

We had an amazing year last year, so why loose 3 great players??

DONT RUIN WHAT WAS WORKING!!!!

Keep what we have, and increase our chances!!!

Yes, I understand there are always other contributing factors that add to those following years. But looking back it seems to be a pattern. We would have a great year, then in the off season we loose or trade off the outstanding players. And the following season we completely fall apart.

Can anyone tell me why they continue to do this?
Why the Vikings never seem to capitalize on a previous great year, and continue it with what they had, instead of loosing key players from previous year?

Danchat
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I see a "pattern" Oct 9, 2023 10:55:12 GMT -6 Reignman, kmillard, and 3 more like this

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Post by Danchat on Oct 9, 2023 10:55:12 GMT -6

I could buy into the idea of letting so many veteran leaders in the locker room has led to some kind of decline in discipline.

Oct 9, 2023 9:22:26 GMT -6 mnmark30 said:

Well we lost Kendricks, Thielen, Cook....who am I missing?

Tomlinson, P Peterson, and Z Smith were bigger losses in my opinion. The thing is, most of these guys are playing poorly (Thielen is the only one playing well right now), so it's hard to say it's a talent-related issue. Seems more like a leadership problem?

Oct 9, 2023 9:22:26 GMT -6 mnmark30 said:

We had an amazing year last year, so why loose 3 great players??

Kendricks was horrible last year, and Cook was showing signs of decline and now looks completely unusable with the Jets. They used to be amazing players, but are no longer.

Oct 9, 2023 9:22:26 GMT -6 mnmark30 said:

Can anyone tell me why they continue to do this?
Why the Vikings never seem to capitalize on a previous great year, and continue it with what they had, instead of loosing key players from previous year?

The team acknowledged the fact that the 13-4 team was fluky and opted to open more cap space for the future and sign free agents in their prime rather than paying older players who might fall off due to age... and several of them have. I imagine we'd be in a similar boat, if not 2-3 and still headed for mediocrity.

They still made a few blunders (why pay the TE room so much money, continued to ignore the front seven), but they are in better shape for the future than they would be with giving Cook $7M, Kendricks $8M, Peterson $7M, Tomlinson $14M, and Cook $7M. That's a good $43M down the toilet this year and more dead money in 2024 after we realize we need to cut a few of them.

comet52
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I see a "pattern" Oct 9, 2023 15:02:12 GMT -6 Reignman, kmillard, and 1 more like this

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Post by comet52 on Oct 9, 2023 15:02:12 GMT -6

Oct 9, 2023 9:22:26 GMT -6 mnmark30 said:

We had an amazing year last year, so why loose 3 great players??

DONT RUIN WHAT WAS WORKING!!!!

We had an amazing first half of the year which was largely about balls bouncing our way and KOC getting a big bump from coming in hard with positivity, rah rah, back-slapping etc. for a group of players who'd grown totally sick of Miserable Mike Zimmer.

Once the bump wore off a week after the amazing Buffalo game with the 40-3 home whipping courtesy of the Cowboys, the team was .500 the rest of the way with some frankly improbable wins.

Jettisoning a bunch of old guys isn't the reason the team is stinking now, it's sloppy play, bad coaching, and lack of talent on defense. We actually kept the oldest guy on D, Harrison Smith. Z didn't want to be here and forced his way out. We also kept Hunter who is verging on old if not there already. Kendricks had completly lost his ability to make an impact, he would be worse than what we've got now in Pace.

All last year really did was fool people who aren't looking very hard or objectively at this team into thinking there was something there. The new HC is not proving to know what he's doing since the glow from the backslapping wore off, which means they are in real trouble, especially since the new g.m. doesn't seem to have much ability to build a roster.

I'm here for entertainment purposes only

RickHasBeenFired Starter Posts: 790 Likes: 582 Fan Since: 1980	I see a "pattern" Oct 9, 2023 17:42:29 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by RickHasBeenFired on Oct 9, 2023 17:42:29 GMT -6 We are the same team as last year, just not as lucky. We had so many last second wins that we were due for this, and some of these teams are just plain better than us anyway.
	Formerly known as firerick

NoresemanSam
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I see a "pattern" Oct 9, 2023 17:55:47 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan likes this

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Post by NoresemanSam on Oct 9, 2023 17:55:47 GMT -6

The Clinton presidential campaign had an inside joke "it's the economy, stupid." Well, it turned into a great political truth and a winning road to the White House (despite an incumbent president who had just ended the cold war).

I believe that the NFL equivalent is "it's the salary cap, stupid."

note: I am in no way calling our valued new forum member "stupid." Just answering the question in my own "unique" style. *slap*

If you continue to dish out generous contracts to players on a mediocre team, it WILL catch up with you. Have we learned anything? (Ref: Hockenson and the narrowly averted JJ disaster)

"There is no one most valuable Viking. There are 40 most valuable Vikings" - Joe Kapp upon refusing to accept the team MVP award

vikergirl
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I see a "pattern" Oct 9, 2023 18:25:44 GMT -6 via mobile Reignman and kmillard like this

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Post by vikergirl on Oct 9, 2023 18:25:44 GMT -6

I mean Thielen and Cook aren't exactly lighting the league on fire this year. I haven't heard much about Kendricks but they had to free up money. It was the right decision even if it was a tough one

Just Me
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I see a "pattern" Oct 9, 2023 18:33:38 GMT -6 Reignman, vikadam, and 1 more like this

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Post by Just Me on Oct 9, 2023 18:33:38 GMT -6

Oct 9, 2023 9:22:26 GMT -6 mnmark30 said:

What has changed that has caused vikings to fall apart from last year?

Well we lost Kendricks, Thielen, Cook....who am I missing?

This happens everytime we have a good year, we loose or trade off our best guys.
It happened with Moss, Cook, John Randle, Randell McDaniel, Adrian Peterson, Harrison Smith, Jared Allen, Robert Griffith, Robert Smith.... I could go on and on..

Holy crap! We traded the Hitman?!!

*tongue*

Last Edit: Oct 9, 2023 18:33:54 GMT -6 by Just Me

There is no "me" in T-E-A-M... Wait a minute...

winatnoon Veteran Posts: 1,049 Likes: 657	I see a "pattern" Oct 9, 2023 19:03:20 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by winatnoon on Oct 9, 2023 19:03:20 GMT -6 Losing Kendricks was a huge plus for this D. Dude was afraid to tackle. He was a fem!

Danchat
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I see a "pattern" Oct 9, 2023 19:37:40 GMT -6

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Post by Danchat on Oct 9, 2023 19:37:40 GMT -6

Oct 9, 2023 18:25:44 GMT -6 vikergirl said:

I mean Thielen and Cook aren't exactly lighting the league on fire this year. I haven't heard much about Kendricks but they had to free up money. It was the right decision even if it was a tough one

Thielen has been fantastic statistically so far, if you extrapolate his 38/394/3 (catches/yards/TDs) line he is on pace for 129/1340/10. It's very unlikely he keeps that pace up, but he has been as good as you can hope.

Cook, meanwhile, is on pace for a final statline of 330 rushing yards and 150 receiving yards... woof!

Last Edit: Oct 9, 2023 21:49:36 GMT -6 by Danchat

Reignman
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I see a "pattern" Oct 9, 2023 21:55:20 GMT -6 Danchat and comet52 like this

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Post by Reignman on Oct 9, 2023 21:55:20 GMT -6

Oct 9, 2023 9:22:26 GMT -6 mnmark30 said:

We had an amazing year last year, so why loose 3 great players??

DONT RUIN WHAT WAS WORKING!!!!

Whatever was working last year when we got off to an 8-1 start, it stopped working after the Bills game. We went 5-4 in the final 9 games trailing in 4 different games by scores of 41-3, 40-3, 33-0, and 31-16. And with the 1-4 start this year, we're now just 6-8 in our last 14 games, with 5 of those wins coming down to the wire, so we've basically regressed to the mean. We're pretty much right back to where Zimmer had us in his last 2 years, and that's exactly what it feels like too. We've already matched last years loss total, with 12 fewer wins. That's pretty impressive even by Vikings standards xD.

But this is the pattern you refer to, the disappointing year that always follows an unexpectedly good year. I warned about it before the season began.

YEAR   W-L FOLLOWING YEAR   W-L    <WINS
1998  15-1    ---->  1999  10-6      -5
2000  11-5    ---->  2001   5-11     -6
2009  12-4    ---->  2010   6-10     -6
2012  10-6    ---->  2013   5-10     -5
2015  11-5    ---->  2016   8-8      -3
2017  13-3    ---->  2018   8-7      -5
2019  10-6    ---->  2020   7-9      -3
2022  13-3    ---->  2023 here we go again

KOC on pace to break another dubious record, if he finishes 6-11 or worse.

Oct 9, 2023 17:42:29 GMT -6 RickHasBeenFired said:

We are the same team as last year, just not as lucky.

Rick is old news buddy, so when can we expect the name FireKwesi? *skeptic*

Last Edit: Oct 9, 2023 21:55:31 GMT -6 by Reignman

Aug 8, 2024 18:42:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

if sitting and watching something versus actually doing it made a person great at it, Reignman would be the next Ron Jeremy.

vikingpwr
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I see a "pattern" Oct 9, 2023 23:34:57 GMT -6

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Post by vikingpwr on Oct 9, 2023 23:34:57 GMT -6

Oct 9, 2023 19:37:40 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Thielen has been fantastic statistically so far, if you extrapolate his 38/394/3

Jordan Addison has filled in admirably so far as a 1st year WR with 19/249/3 don't ya think?

Thielen will be 35 in 2025.

Addison will be 23..... *thumb_up*

Last Edit: Oct 9, 2023 23:43:07 GMT -6 by vikingpwr

James
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I see a "pattern" Oct 10, 2023 7:55:31 GMT -6 FSUVike likes this

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Post by James on Oct 10, 2023 7:55:31 GMT -6

What this team is going through now has NOTHING to do with the old washed up players we released from last season. You don't hear about any of those guys dominating on their new teams. If anything we used to have a pattern of keeping guys around too long. If Kwesi did one thing right, it was getting rid of some of the deadweight on this team. The team is no worse than the team from last year. We're just not getting the lucky plays like we did last year.

The pattern I DO see is not replacing these guys with quality talent. We keep having to rely on the FA just to fix a lot of these holes on the team. I see a pattern of not drafting well. A pattern of not coaching well. There are so many patterns of mediocrity with this franchise, getting rid of old vets was not one of them.

comet52
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I see a "pattern" Oct 10, 2023 8:02:26 GMT -6 via mobile Reignman and Brandon like this

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Post by comet52 on Oct 10, 2023 8:02:26 GMT -6

Oct 9, 2023 23:34:57 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Oct 9, 2023 19:37:40 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Thielen has been fantastic statistically so far, if you extrapolate his 38/394/3

Jordan Addison has filled in admirably so far as a 1st year WR with 19/249/3 don't ya think?

Thielen will be 35 in 2025.

Addison will be 23..... *thumb_up*

I wish Thielan all the best. He's having a good year because Carolina is thin at WR and the rookie QB depends on his ability to run routes and be where he's supposed to be. But it didn't make any sense to keep him here.

I'm here for entertainment purposes only

vikingpwr
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I see a "pattern" Oct 10, 2023 10:45:02 GMT -6

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Post by vikingpwr on Oct 10, 2023 10:45:02 GMT -6

Oct 10, 2023 8:02:26 GMT -6 comet52 said:

Oct 9, 2023 23:34:57 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Jordan Addison has filled in admirably so far as a 1st year WR with 19/249/3 don't ya think?

Thielen will be 35 in 2025.

Addison will be 23..... *thumb_up*

I wish Thielan all the best. He's having a good year because Carolina is thin at WR and the rookie QB depends on his ability to run routes and be where he's supposed to be. But it didn't make any sense to keep him here.

Thielen was one of my favorite Vikings along with Marcus Sherels. Two UDFA that had good careers with the team. I wish Thielen all the best as well.

Jor-El
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I see a "pattern" Oct 13, 2023 14:49:18 GMT -6 Danchat likes this

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Post by Jor-El on Oct 13, 2023 14:49:18 GMT -6

Oct 9, 2023 9:22:26 GMT -6 mnmark30 said:

What has changed that has caused vikings to fall apart from last year?

Well we lost Kendricks, Thielen, Cook....who am I missing?

This happens everytime we have a good year, we loose or trade off our best guys.
It happened with Moss, Cook, John Randle, Randell McDaniel, Adrian Peterson, Harrison Smith, Jared Allen, Robert Griffith, Robert Smith.... I could go on and on..

All these guys were lost due to contract ending, or traded off, or free agency, right after their best year with the Vikings. Then the following year the Vikings sucked!!!

Why do they continue to do this???

We had an amazing year last year, so why loose 3 great players??

DONT RUIN WHAT WAS WORKING!!!!

Keep what we have, and increase our chances!!!

Yes, I understand there are always other contributing factors that add to those following years. But looking back it seems to be a pattern. We would have a great year, then in the off season we loose or trade off the outstanding players. And the following season we completely fall apart.

Can anyone tell me why they continue to do this?
Why the Vikings never seem to capitalize on a previous great year, and continue it with what they had, instead of loosing key players from previous year?

First, I believe this is your first post so welcome and thanks for the contribution! Excellent post and the kind of question that sparks good conversation here.

I'm in agreement with you on the overall observation - "the Vikings never seem to capitalize on a previous great year". But I don't agree that it's because of dumping key players after great years. Many others have already commented on recent ones, but the players from the 1990s and 2000s don't fit, in general.
* Randy Moss: Traded away after a 6-10 year, not a great season. In the short run, we improved to 8-8.
* Robert Smith: AFAIK, he was under contract and the Vikings wanted him back, but he was done with football after 41-Donut.
* John Randle: Yes we let him leave after an 11-5 season, but I think there were a lot of messes here by 2000.
* Randall McDaniel: Left after a 10-6 season and the following season we went 11-5.
* Adrian Peterson: Left after the 2016 season when we went 8-8. The next year we went 13-3 without him.
* Jared Allen: We were 5-10-1 during his final season here, and 7-9 the next.

We haven't had sustained success here. There was some under Denny Green, but everyone started getting sick of him, even after the 1998 season. Green himself didn't build on that great season by adding the defensive help we needed (well, aside from Dimitrius Underwood...)