2023 Offensive Line Discussion

Breeze
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2023 Offensive Line Discussion Aug 20, 2023 11:04:37 GMT -6 Minniman likes this

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Post by Breeze on Aug 20, 2023 11:04:37 GMT -6

Aug 20, 2023 10:37:14 GMT -6 Minniman said:

Aug 20, 2023 10:06:58 GMT -6 Breeze said:

The way they seem to be investing/developing the interior OL does not fit with the type of QB they have.

Not sure what that says yet, but if Cousins survives this season and they extend him, there will need to be a marked improvement in that area, one way or another.

KAM is going about this the same way as Spielman did, and that led to abject failure.

It certainly looks that way so far.

I know Dalvin Cook's first couple of steps, or burst at the line, looked lacking in the past couple of seasons....or as Childress would say, "he had lost some squirt in the hole", but I'm unconvinced that there was really ever many holes to begin with.
Couple that with your statuesque QB thriving on play-action and it's not really ideal.

I can see that there is a mentality of game planning around it...but little else matters when you can't covert short yardage runs or are continually hit in the backfield early on downs. The Giants ate them up when it mattered.

Throw in the interior's inability to consistently pass block and it's a bothersome trend....that has lasted a long time.

I will be really curious to see how Cook does as Jet, as well as how much "OL personnel continuity" actually impacts the Vikes run game this season.

slapnut19
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2023 Offensive Line Discussion Aug 20, 2023 11:10:47 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by slapnut19 on Aug 20, 2023 11:10:47 GMT -6

Aug 20, 2023 11:04:37 GMT -6 Breeze said:

Aug 20, 2023 10:37:14 GMT -6 Minniman said:

KAM is going about this the same way as Spielman did, and that led to abject failure.

It certainly looks that way so far.

I know Dalvin Cook's first couple of steps, or burst at the line, looked lacking in the past couple of seasons....or as Childress would say, "he had lost some squirt in the hole", but I'm unconvinced that there was really ever many holes to begin with.
Couple that with your statuesque QB thriving on play-action and it's not really ideal.

I can see that there is a mentality of game planning around it...but little else matters when you can't covert short yardage runs or are continually hit in the backfield early on downs. The Giants ate them up when it mattered.

Throw in the interior's inability to consistently pass block and it's a bothersome trend....that has lasted a long time.

I will be really curious to see how Cook does as Jet, as well as how much "OL personnel continuity" actually impacts the Vikes run game this season.

I get the oline concern but have we played a regular season game yet? Maybe wait and see how things shake out before condemning the season?

Minniman
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2023 Offensive Line Discussion Aug 20, 2023 11:15:32 GMT -6

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Post by Minniman on Aug 20, 2023 11:15:32 GMT -6

Aug 20, 2023 11:04:37 GMT -6 Breeze said:

Aug 20, 2023 10:37:14 GMT -6 Minniman said:

KAM is going about this the same way as Spielman did, and that led to abject failure.

It certainly looks that way so far.

I know Dalvin Cook's first couple of steps, or burst at the line, looked lacking in the past couple of seasons....or as Childress would say, "he had lost some squirt in the hole", but I'm unconvinced that there was really ever many holes to begin with.
Couple that with your statuesque QB thriving on play-action and it's not really ideal.

I can see that there is a mentality of game planning around it...but little else matters when you can't covert short yardage runs or are continually hit in the backfield early on downs. The Giants ate them up when it mattered.

Throw in the interior's inability to consistently pass block and it's a bothersome trend....that has lasted a long time.

I will be really curious to see how Cook does as Jet, as well as how much "OL personnel continuity" actually impacts the Vikes run game this season.

If Cook puts up 1500 yards in New York, as some Vikings fans hopes he will, that will be a bad indicator of KAM's team building in Minnesota.

Logic is the beginning of wisdom - not the end.

Minniman
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2023 Offensive Line Discussion Aug 20, 2023 11:18:07 GMT -6

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Post by Minniman on Aug 20, 2023 11:18:07 GMT -6

Aug 20, 2023 11:10:47 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

Aug 20, 2023 11:04:37 GMT -6 Breeze said:

It certainly looks that way so far.

I know Dalvin Cook's first couple of steps, or burst at the line, looked lacking in the past couple of seasons....or as Childress would say, "he had lost some squirt in the hole", but I'm unconvinced that there was really ever many holes to begin with.
Couple that with your statuesque QB thriving on play-action and it's not really ideal.

I can see that there is a mentality of game planning around it...but little else matters when you can't covert short yardage runs or are continually hit in the backfield early on downs. The Giants ate them up when it mattered.

Throw in the interior's inability to consistently pass block and it's a bothersome trend....that has lasted a long time.

I will be really curious to see how Cook does as Jet, as well as how much "OL personnel continuity" actually impacts the Vikes run game this season.

I get the oline concern but have we played a regular season game yet? Maybe wait and see how things shake out before condemning the season?

I agree about it not being a regular season game, but other teams gave their starters some reps. The Titans gave starters reps.

On the other hand, the non-starters did not just lose; they looked awful in doing so - even after the titans removed their starters.

Logic is the beginning of wisdom - not the end.

Breeze
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2023 Offensive Line Discussion Aug 20, 2023 11:18:54 GMT -6

Quote

Post by Breeze on Aug 20, 2023 11:18:54 GMT -6

Aug 20, 2023 11:10:47 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

Aug 20, 2023 11:04:37 GMT -6 Breeze said:

It certainly looks that way so far.

I know Dalvin Cook's first couple of steps, or burst at the line, looked lacking in the past couple of seasons....or as Childress would say, "he had lost some squirt in the hole", but I'm unconvinced that there was really ever many holes to begin with.
Couple that with your statuesque QB thriving on play-action and it's not really ideal.

I can see that there is a mentality of game planning around it...but little else matters when you can't covert short yardage runs or are continually hit in the backfield early on downs. The Giants ate them up when it mattered.

Throw in the interior's inability to consistently pass block and it's a bothersome trend....that has lasted a long time.

I will be really curious to see how Cook does as Jet,as well as how much "OL personnel continuity" actually impacts the Vikes run game this season.

I get the oline concern but have we played a regular season game yet? Maybe wait and see how things shake out before condemning the season?

Yeah...did you actually read the last sentence in my comment?

I made it big for you in case you just missed it rather than assuming, like you did, that there is some inherent comprehension issue going on.

Drank Ring of Honor Posts: 5,006 Likes: 2,484	2023 Offensive Line Discussion Aug 20, 2023 11:23:01 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Drank on Aug 20, 2023 11:23:01 GMT -6 Are we even fine at OT with depth? Vederian Lowe looks slow and heavy footed as well.

Danchat
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2023 Offensive Line Discussion Aug 20, 2023 11:51:18 GMT -6 Funkytown, kmillard, and 2 more like this

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Post by Danchat on Aug 20, 2023 11:51:18 GMT -6

At this point there needs to be some amount of concern with the depth of this unit. Udoh got wrecked by backups (UDFA Caleb Murphy and former 2nd rounder Rashad Weaver had sacks on him, plus 2 holdings), Lowe is still an unknown, Brandel is also an unknown at guard, and Schlottmann is proven to be terrible. I'd have Brandel go back to being the primary swing tackle and sign a veteran guard since it appears that Chris Reed isn't coming off the NFI list anytime soon.

James Franchise Player Posts: 3,328 Likes: 2,409	2023 Offensive Line Discussion Aug 21, 2023 4:26:09 GMT -6 via mobile Funkytown likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by James on Aug 21, 2023 4:26:09 GMT -6 Oli Udoh actually played well last year filling in for Brian O'Neill. It's a shame he's looked so poorly in the two preseason games thus far. Against 2s and 3s at that.

Funkytown
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2023 Offensive Line Discussion Aug 25, 2023 18:35:13 GMT -6

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Post by Funkytown on Aug 25, 2023 18:35:13 GMT -6

“R-E-L-A-X. Relax.”

With all due respect to the many talented players fighting tooth and nail to earn a roster spot, who actually gives a damn about the preseason? Don’t get me wrong, it would obviously be much more desirable to have Minnesota’s backup right tackle playing at a noticeably higher level with the regular season only two weeks away. Does the preseason serve a purpose for unproven guys who have yet to earn their opportunity when the games mean something? No question.

But that’s just it. Last we saw of Udoh, he took full advantage of the opportunity that was presented to him when right tackle Brian O’Neill was lost for the season following a Week 17 Achilles injury at Green Bay. In two starts to close out 2022 — including the Wild Card playoff game against the New York Giants — Udoh was nothing short of fantastic.

On a combined 70 pass-blocking opportunities across those two starts, he allowed just two pressures (an elite rate of 2.9%) and didn’t give up a sack nor a quarterback hit. And for those of you who still lend credence to Pro Football Focus’s grading system (hey, more power to ya), Udoh graded out as the eighth-best tackle across the NFL during Wild Card weekend at 79.2. For context, 2022 Pro Bowl left tackle Christian Darrisaw graded out at 79.1 in the Wild Card game against the Giants.

Not to twist the knife on the heartbreaking loss that abruptly ended Minnesota’s dream season last January, but even Kevin O’Connell underestimated the type of performance that Udoh was putting on display in the playoffs. Udoh was holding up all day against New York’s nightmarish front, led by Dexter Lawrence, Leonard Williams, and 2022 No. 5-overall draft pick Kayvon Thibodeaux.

Yet on the final offensive play of the season — yes, that dreadful fourth-and-eight — O’Connell called for Hockenson to provide help for Udoh with a chip release. Notice in the clip below how defensive coordinator Wink Martindale overloads his front to the strong side and then calls a stunt for Thibodeaux and Williams. Then watch how Udoh picks it up with relative ease and completely stonewalls Williams.

So forgive me when I say that the Udoh pitchfork brigade needs to ease up and stop being prisoners of the moment in mid-to-late August when the games mean absolutely nothing. Is Udoh ready to be a full-time starter at right tackle? Absolutely not. Can the Vikings count on Udoh if Darrisaw or O’Neill is forced to miss time? He’s already proven that — and then some.

Last Edit: Aug 25, 2023 18:35:54 GMT -6 by Funkytown

Purple Pain
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2023 Offensive Line Discussion Aug 26, 2023 8:46:56 GMT -6

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Post by Purple Pain on Aug 26, 2023 8:46:56 GMT -6

Purple Insider Mailbag:

zimdiggity… Why did we not improve the o line. Kirks success depends on staying clean. Makes zero sense to not improve the worst line in football. To me it’s a fireable offense for GM.

My question is: How were they going to do that? Remember when they had to restructure Cousins just to get cap compliant? Which guards should they have signed?

In what world were they the worst line in football? PFF ranked them 13th overall for the 2022 season, their best ranking since I’ve been covering the team. I know we watch one team closer than the others but if you watch games around the league every Sunday you’ll see offensive linemen getting beaten all over the place. Also having the best tackle duo in the league is really, really important. Cousins was the 11th most pressured QB, only 1.9% above 17th place and he averaged 7.6 YPA, second best in the NFL.

If not having five great offensive linemen was a fireable offense, then 90% of NFL GMs would be fired.

I completely agree that the guard play is a concern and maybe a summer signing would have been a good idea. Again, money matters on the Dalton Risner thing.

Sometimes I get a little flustered by the whole guard thing. This offense is absolutely stacked. Go win games.

Bobby Peters… What has been the focus of the run game in camp? Gap/zone? Under center/gun?

I think it’s going to be very similar to last year with the “mid zone” stuff and not the traditional outside zone. That might be one of the reasons to move on from Dalvin, who was a premier outside zone runner. They are definitely going to have an under-center element with more mixing in big personnel on early downs and when they’re winning — maybe a lot more based on how good Josh Oliver looks. (Also, everyone should follow Bobby’s work. He’s incredibly smart about football and is a terrible self promoter).

dougpaschal
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2023 Offensive Line Discussion Aug 26, 2023 9:33:39 GMT -6

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Post by dougpaschal on Aug 26, 2023 9:33:39 GMT -6

Aug 26, 2023 8:46:56 GMT -6 Purple Pain said:

Purple Insider Mailbag:

zimdiggity… Why did we not improve the o line. Kirks success depends on staying clean. Makes zero sense to not improve the worst line in football. To me it’s a fireable offense for GM.

Haha. hehehe

Uncle
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2023 Offensive Line Discussion Aug 26, 2023 10:55:13 GMT -6 Danchat likes this

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Post by Uncle on Aug 26, 2023 10:55:13 GMT -6

Aug 26, 2023 8:46:56 GMT -6 Purple Pain said:

zimdiggity… Why did we not improve the o line. Kirks success depends on staying clean. Makes zero sense to not improve the worst line in football. To me it’s a fireable offense for GM.

My question is: How were they going to do that?

I think perhaps drafting an IOL in the 2023 in the middle rounds perhaps could have been a decent investment.

It's certainly well established that the Vikings have "struck-out" when drafting OG's since Randall McDaniel in 1988 (I summarized that in another thread, and hopefully Ingram improves over his rookie year to end that OG Draft "losing streak"), but perhaps OL Coach Chris Kuper can develop some decent middle round talent.

It obviously remains to be seen how Jay Ward develops in the secondary, but what if we drafted an IOL player in that late 4th Rd spot instead of Ward? Here were the IOL prospects available at Jay Ward's spot at the end of the 4th:

- Atonio Mafi, UCLA: versatile IOL player who's currently RG2 on the Pats depth chart
- Olu Oluwatimi, Michigan: played OC-only at Virginia & Michigan and currently OC2 on Seattle's depth chart
- Jordan McFadden, Clemson: don't know much about him; LG2 on Charger's depth chart
- Luke Wypler, Ohio St: played mostly OC for the Buckeyes; will probably win OC2 job vs Nick Harris in Cleveland (Harris very well could be cut on Tuesday)

Last Edit: Aug 26, 2023 10:55:29 GMT -6 by Uncle

PurpleFloyd
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2023 Offensive Line Discussion Aug 26, 2023 19:08:53 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Aug 26, 2023 19:08:53 GMT -6

Aug 20, 2023 11:04:37 GMT -6 Breeze said:

Aug 20, 2023 10:37:14 GMT -6 Minniman said:

KAM is going about this the same way as Spielman did, and that led to abject failure.

It certainly looks that way so far.

I know Dalvin Cook's first couple of steps, or burst at the line, looked lacking in the past couple of seasons....or as Childress would say, "he had lost some squirt in the hole", but I'm unconvinced that there was really ever many holes to begin with.
Couple that with your statuesque QB thriving on play-action and it's not really ideal.

I can see that there is a mentality of game planning around it...but little else matters when you can't covert short yardage runs or are continually hit in the backfield early on downs. The Giants ate them up when it mattered.

Throw in the interior's inability to consistently pass block and it's a bothersome trend....that has lasted a long time.

I will be really curious to see how Cook does as Jet, as well as how much "OL personnel continuity" actually impacts the Vikes run game this season.

What exactly is your issue with Kirk and play action passes? He is one of the best play action QBs in the league and running PA is a great way to counteract a pass rush.

dougpaschal Team Captain Posts: 1,880 Likes: 488	2023 Offensive Line Discussion Aug 27, 2023 7:46:22 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by dougpaschal on Aug 27, 2023 7:46:22 GMT -6 I thought Udoh, Lowe and Schlottmann were improved. I'm feeling better about them today

Funkytown Owner Purple Pain Big Dog Posts: 67,552 Likes: 31,478 Fan Since: 1998	2023 Offensive Line Discussion Aug 29, 2023 16:04:28 GMT -6 via mobile Danchat likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Funkytown on Aug 29, 2023 16:04:28 GMT -6