Hunter's Contract Situation 2.0 - one-year deal worth $20M

andhesloose28
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Hunter's Contract Situation 2.0 - one-year deal worth $20M Apr 23, 2023 8:16:42 GMT -6

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Post by andhesloose28 on Apr 23, 2023 8:16:42 GMT -6

Apr 23, 2023 6:33:25 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Apr 23, 2023 6:28:38 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

Considering we were very bad with them, I dont see anyone on that defense last year who was irreplaceable. There is no quick fix, might as well get assets for a player who still will net at least a 2nd. Hunter doesn't fit the age group they are catering too I think it would be a huge missed opportunity to get some capital.

I agree there is no quick fix, but edge rushers of Hunter's level are incredibly rare and moving on from him will make fixing the defense nearly impossible. Teams should build around their elite players, not trade them away.

I get the debate, I wouldnt be shocked if hes extendingl. Id like to see Flores work with Hunter. But the data doesnt lie, edge rushers once they hit 30 decline. Idk he doesnt look the same anymore in my opinion hes not the Hunter pre two injuries. So I guess if you think we should go all in next two years, which im guessing you dont considering your Kirk opinions, I think its best for the team to trade him. I see this teams window opening in 2024 the earliest, depending on if we draft a QB this year, if not Id say 2025. Again another reasoning why its not worth extending Hunter. This is a move to show you are not the old regime extending everyone and running them into the ground. I think its an easy call to sell high.

Last Edit: Apr 23, 2023 8:18:08 GMT -6 by andhesloose28

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Hunter's Contract Situation 2.0 - one-year deal worth $20M Apr 23, 2023 9:32:41 GMT -6

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on Apr 23, 2023 9:32:41 GMT -6

Apr 23, 2023 6:28:38 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

Considering we were very bad with them, I dont see anyone on that defense last year who was irreplaceable.

Not sure I agree with the logic. Hunter was quite good, especially as the season wore on. I understand that the defense was bad overall, but getting rid of someone who was one of the better players at his position doesn't seem to make sense. I'd rather keep him and trust that our new coordinator will better utilize him.

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Hunter's Contract Situation 2.0 - one-year deal worth $20M Apr 23, 2023 10:07:18 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Apr 23, 2023 10:07:18 GMT -6

Apr 23, 2023 8:16:42 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

Apr 23, 2023 6:33:25 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

I agree there is no quick fix, but edge rushers of Hunter's level are incredibly rare and moving on from him will make fixing the defense nearly impossible. Teams should build around their elite players, not trade them away.

I get the debate, I wouldnt be shocked if hes extendingl. Id like to see Flores work with Hunter. But the data doesnt lie, edge rushers once they hit 30 decline. Idk he doesnt look the same anymore in my opinion hes not the Hunter pre two injuries. So I guess if you think we should go all in next two years, which im guessing you dont considering your Kirk opinions, I think its best for the team to trade him. I see this teams window opening in 2024 the earliest, depending on if we draft a QB this year, if not Id say 2025. Again another reasoning why its not worth extending Hunter. This is a move to show you are not the old regime extending everyone and running them into the ground. I think its an easy call to sell high.

I agree with this. I specifically watched him last year in so many plays where we needed him to make an impact and he looked like he was going half speed vs a few years back.

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Hunter's Contract Situation 2.0 - one-year deal worth $20M Apr 23, 2023 11:52:34 GMT -6 Purple Pain and andhesloose28 like this

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Post by Danchat on Apr 23, 2023 11:52:34 GMT -6

Apr 23, 2023 6:33:25 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Apr 23, 2023 6:28:38 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

Considering we were very bad with them, I dont see anyone on that defense last year who was irreplaceable. There is no quick fix, might as well get assets for a player who still will net at least a 2nd. Hunter doesn't fit the age group they are catering too I think it would be a huge missed opportunity to get some capital.

I agree there is no quick fix, but edge rushers of Hunter's level are incredibly rare and moving on from him will make fixing the defense nearly impossible. Teams should build around their elite players, not trade them away.

But how many more years will Hunter have in his prime? Pass rushers begin to start dropping off around age 29-30 and we'd be paying him a lot into his 30s.

If they do move on from Hunter, this defense is going to be bad, even with Flores' superior coaching. If they move on from both Hunter and Smith.... I'd predict their defense would be the worst in the NFL, at least personnel-wise.

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Hunter's Contract Situation 2.0 - one-year deal worth $20M Apr 23, 2023 19:53:29 GMT -6 Purple Pain and vikadam like this

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Post by MidwinterViking on Apr 23, 2023 19:53:29 GMT -6

Here's a fun tidbit if you're worried about age: 38 players had 8.0 or more sacks in 2022, of those 38 players 13 of them (34%) were age 30 or older. And they weren't just barely squeaking over the 8.0 sack line, the 30 and 33 year olds were dominating the 24 and 26 year olds.

Elite pass rushers age just fine. Even at 33 they will still be faster than nearly every QB. And if Hunter plays well for a few years then in four years, at age 32, is merely a very good pass rusher instead of an elite pass rusher, then an extension is wildly successful.

andhesloose28
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Hunter's Contract Situation 2.0 - one-year deal worth $20M Apr 24, 2023 6:42:03 GMT -6

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Post by andhesloose28 on Apr 24, 2023 6:42:03 GMT -6

Apr 23, 2023 9:32:41 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

Apr 23, 2023 6:28:38 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

Considering we were very bad with them, I dont see anyone on that defense last year who was irreplaceable.

Not sure I agree with the logic. Hunter was quite good, especially as the season wore on. I understand that the defense was bad overall, but getting rid of someone who was one of the better players at his position doesn't seem to make sense. I'd rather keep him and trust that our new coordinator will better utilize him.

Yeah I wont debate your logic, but the bigger question is do you think we are legit contenders this year or next? If your answer is yes then sure I dont mind the Hunter extension. Hunter probably only has 2 more good years in him. Id rather see a different approach from a new regime instead of the Rick way of just keeping everyone till they rot (Kendricks, Thielen) The list goes on. Dont get me wrong I fell into it as well it was very cool seeing us keep our homegrown defense for so long, but at the end of the day we got nothing out of it, 1 good run at it in 2017 and it was kept on until 2022. Sell high for once!!!

FSUVike Franchise Player Posts: 3,150 Likes: 4,868	Hunter's Contract Situation 2.0 - one-year deal worth $20M Apr 24, 2023 12:33:35 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by FSUVike on Apr 24, 2023 12:33:35 GMT -6 Saying Hunter only has 2 more good years in him makes zero sense to me.

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Hunter's Contract Situation 2.0 - one-year deal worth $20M Apr 24, 2023 12:50:39 GMT -6 ukvikings likes this

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Post by andhesloose28 on Apr 24, 2023 12:50:39 GMT -6

Apr 24, 2023 12:33:35 GMT -6 FSUVike said:

Saying Hunter only has 2 more good years in him makes zero sense to me.

Good, then you should be able to get even more for him

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Hunter's Contract Situation 2.0 - one-year deal worth $20M Apr 24, 2023 20:13:07 GMT -6

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Post by Danchat on Apr 24, 2023 20:13:07 GMT -6

Apr 24, 2023 12:33:35 GMT -6 FSUVike said:

Saying Hunter only has 2 more good years in him makes zero sense to me.

Will he be worth paying $20-25M per year for when he's 29 to 33 years old? I get hesitant paying that kind of money to players outside of the prime of their career, and we've seen the Vikings too frequently do this for "their guys". At least Hunter is at a position of high value unlike other deals that involved paying too much for a TE, LB, and S.

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Hunter's Contract Situation 2.0 - one-year deal worth $20M Apr 25, 2023 8:18:09 GMT -6 via mobile vikingpwr likes this

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Post by FSUVike on Apr 25, 2023 8:18:09 GMT -6

Apr 24, 2023 20:13:07 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Apr 24, 2023 12:33:35 GMT -6 FSUVike said:

Saying Hunter only has 2 more good years in him makes zero sense to me.

Will he be worth paying $20-25M per year for when he's 29 to 33 years old? I get hesitant paying that kind of money to players outside of the prime of their career, and we've seen the Vikings too frequently do this for "their guys". At least Hunter is at a position of high value unlike other deals that involved paying too much for a TE, LB, and S.

I didn't say anything about the money. Just the notion that he's somehow going to fall off a cliff when he turns 30. Pass Rushers stay productive well into tbeir early 30s. It's not a 'running' position like WR, ILB, CB, RB, WR.

Plus, Hunter has more tread on the tires since he missed the better part of 2 years with non-related, non-degenerative injuries.

But I agree that in general guys who ink huge contracts in their late 20s rarely meet or exceed the value of said deals. And Hunter would likely be nearing the end of his window right when Minnesota's window with a young QB opens.

Last Edit: Apr 25, 2023 8:21:06 GMT -6 by FSUVike

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Hunter's Contract Situation 2.0 - one-year deal worth $20M May 9, 2023 20:10:39 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by Funkytown on May 9, 2023 20:10:39 GMT -6

"With Za'Darius, I would think that ultimately, he ends up playing someplace else," Pelissero said. "They're also not just going to give him away in a trade. He's changed agents and he wants a new contract, and he's at in a point in his career where I certainly understand — he put up 10 sacks and you're thinking 'I should go and get one more payday,' but he also signed a three-year contract with Minnesota, so that one's going to take a while."

...

Lastly, Hunter is set to make just $5.5 million this year after having money moved up last offseason. He's been surrounded by contract drama ever since signing a five-year, $72 million extension that immediately became a bargain for the Vikings when Hunter emerged as an elite edge rusher. He missed all of the 2020 season and the second half of 2021 due to season-ending injuries, but stayed healthy last year and put up 10.5 sacks and 70 pressures (T-7th in the NFL).

"At some point, something has to happen there, ideally a contract extension," Pelissero said. "But pass rushers are getting crazy money, Nick Bosa's going to get probably close to $30 million a year, so where does Danielle Hunter fall in? He's still a young guy, he's had some injuries, but he showed last year he can come back and even though they had him dropping into coverage at times, he can still be productive."

"At this point, there's really no urgency," Pelissero said about the overall situation with these three players. "You've carried their cap numbers this far, it's May, you don't have a lot of big expenditures here. So all options are on the table in those situations."

Right now, offseason workouts are voluntary. Unsurprisingly, none of the three have shown up. Where things will get interesting is if any of the situations are still unresolved when mandatory minicamp comes around in mid-June.

Last Edit: May 9, 2023 20:12:13 GMT -6 by Funkytown

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Hunter's Contract Situation 2.0 - one-year deal worth $20M May 15, 2023 11:01:01 GMT -6

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Post by Purple Pain on May 15, 2023 11:01:01 GMT -6

Alec Lewis: What’s the latest on ~~Za’Darius Smith~~, Dalvin Cook, Danielle Hunter?

Will the Vikings extend Danielle Hunter?
Hunter has not been in Minnesota for voluntary workouts. This isn’t exactly earth-shattering, considering players like Justin Jefferson have also been absent. Hunter, though, has a contract situation to sort through.

Yes, another contract situation.

This one is tied to previous decisions, as are most. Here is the quick backstory: In 2018, the Vikings extended Hunter for five years and $72 million. He starred in 2018 and 2019 but missed the 2020 season with a neck injury. He returned in 2021 but tore a pectoral muscle in Week 8, which ended his season.

Before last season, Minnesota converted Hunter’s $18 million roster bonus into a signing bonus, which pushed money into future void years. Then, Hunter returned to action and remained healthy for an entire season, ranking 14th among 50 qualified pass rushers in sacks (10 1/2) and 15th in pressure rate (13 percent).

That leads us to the present and Hunter’s contract. He is owed just $5.5 million this season, according to Over The Cap, which ranks 35th among NFL edge rushers. That figure, combined with Hunter’s age (28) and injury history, explains why he’d want long-term security.

Whether the Vikings give it to him will depend not only on Hunter’s asking price but also on how general manager Kwesi Adofo-Mensah, head coach Kevin O’Connell and Flores think he aligns with the new defensive scheme. Hunter is not well suited to drop back into coverage from the edge spot, nor is he the stand-up weapon that Smith proved to be early in 2022. He is, though, a talented athlete who requires game planning on the edge.

Thinking like Adofo-Mensah, what alternatives do the Vikings have at edge rusher? Minnesota does not have ample depth at the position, and finding a player of Hunter’s caliber (at a premium position, no less) would likely mean either paying big money in free agency or allocating high-end draft capital to the position. The draft is always a possible fallback, but Hunter does stand as one of the few defenders on the roster who can be relied on when healthy.

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Hunter's Contract Situation 2.0 - one-year deal worth $20M May 15, 2023 11:39:40 GMT -6 snotbubbles likes this

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Post by andhesloose28 on May 15, 2023 11:39:40 GMT -6

I always go back to 2019 playoff game vs San Fran. That game should've showed us how far we really were from being a legit team. Mainly because the trenches on both sides of the ball. But we upset the Saints so we rewarded Kirk and Zim extensions. Last year loss vs the Giants was huge in the team making changes, which they did. Here we are in 2023 and we still haven't really addressed the issue with top draft capital. Again if you watched the NFC playoffs last year in San Fran vs Dallas, then Philly play. They are just bullies in the trenches. Philly just keeps adding assets on the line, while we didnt draft a single Olineman, and no Dline untill the 4th round. We have gone a full decade without spending a first or second on the Dline?!? That is just crazy in itself.

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Hunter's Contract Situation 2.0 - one-year deal worth $20M May 15, 2023 12:42:45 GMT -6 via mobile Danchat likes this

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Post by FSUVike on May 15, 2023 12:42:45 GMT -6

May 15, 2023 11:39:40 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

I always go back to 2019 playoff game vs San Fran. That game should've showed us how far we really were from being a legit team. Mainly because the trenches on both sides of the ball. But we upset the Saints so we rewarded Kirk and Zim extensions. Last year loss vs the Giants was huge in the team making changes, which they did. Here we are in 2023 and we still haven't really addressed the issue with top draft capital. Again if you watched the NFC playoffs last year in San Fran vs Dallas, then Philly play. They are just bullies in the trenches. Philly just keeps adding assets on the line, while we didnt draft a single Olineman, and no Dline untill the 4th round. We have gone a full decade without spending a first or second on the Dline?!? That is just crazy in itself.

And yet you can't force force it just because of that fact.

The reality is that there were no 1st Round graded Defensive or Offensive Linemen available at #23. The trade down offers likely sucked. And they likely had a 1st Round grade on Addison.

My preference was a trade back and pick the best Edge still available out of group of about 4-5 guys I had similarly graded. But one of those, McDonald, went before the Vikings even picked, which is just nuts. And by the time Minnesota was on the clock again at #87 they were all gone.

Kwesi didn't have enough picks and there wasn't enough depth in this Draft Class to plug all the holes. Yes, it's egregious that Slick Rick ignored the Defensive Line while flailing away at building a halfway decent Offensive Line. Kwesi can't compound that mistake by reaching in the Draft or overpaying in Free Agency.

Flores can't field a Defense with 1 CB. At this point Booth and Evans are luxuries if they stay healthy. You need 3 CBs and Minnesota had 1 going into the Draft. Flores can manufacture pressure with his scheme. He can't manufacture coverage with Practice Squad Players.

I expect a Hunter extension plus a high pick next year AND another flyer on someone like Davenport in FA. Kwesi has already inked 3 FAs for the D-Line in 2 years, so it's not like he's ignoring the group. He just hasn't allocated premium Draft Capital yet.

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Hunter's Contract Situation 2.0 - one-year deal worth $20M May 15, 2023 13:02:25 GMT -6 andhesloose28 and 15sparks like this

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Post by Uncle on May 15, 2023 13:02:25 GMT -6

May 15, 2023 11:39:40 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

We have gone a full decade without spending a first or second on the Dline?!? That is just crazy in itself.

I was reading that and was thinking back to the last 1st or 2nd Rd pick on the DL and who that was - and it was DT Sharrif Floyd, selected in the 1st in 2013 (when Rick ended up making three Round 1 selections; Floyd was the first one of that trifecta).

Going back to the 10 years before 2013 (2003 - 2012 Drafts), the Vikings spent 3 picks in the first 2 rounds on the DL: Kevin Williams in Rd 1 in 2003, Kenechi Udeze in Rd 1 in 2004 and Erasmus James in Rd 1 in 2005.

Even though there is still debate on how effective Floyd was prior to suffering the career-ending nerve damage from his Sept 2016 surgical procedure, given that his PFF grades dipped in 2015 after a solid 2014 season, you can probably make an argument that the Viking's only "hit" on 1 of those 4 early Round DL picks from the last 20 years - Kevin Williams in 2003.

Did the lack of success at finding/developing DL talent in the early Rounds deter Rick from dipping into that well after it was known Floyd wasn't going to be returning to the field in 2017? Rick was able to find some effective "space eaters" and 3T's in free agency - Livnal Joseph, Tom Johnson, Sheldon Richardson & Dalvin Tomlinson - and he was able to find some "Ok" depth players on Day 3 - Armon Watts, James Lynch, Jaleel Johnson, Shamar Stephen - but none of the Day 3 prospects developed into decent starters. The 2020 opening day roster of Shamar and Jaleel on the inside ultimately became one of the worst interior DL's in the NFL that culminated in the 2020 Christmas Day drubbing by the Saints where they ran for 260+ yds and a 52-33 beatdown...

...and because of the Ngakoue trade in 2020, we didn't have a 2nd Rd pick in 2021 and the lone early Rd pick we had was spent on OT Christian Darrisaw after the tradedown.

Given that Miami, under Flores, drafted a DL player in the first 2 rounds each of the 3 seasons he was HC - 2019: Christian Wilkins in Rd 1, 2020: Raekwon Davis in Rd 2, 2021: Jaelen Phillips in Rd 1 - the chances are relatively high that if Flores is back as DC in 2024, we could very well see a return to an early Rd DL selection.