With the 23rd pick, your Minnesota Vikings select...

Uncle
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With the 23rd pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 16, 2023 10:01:22 GMT -6 Funkytown, legendsofthenorth, and 3 more like this

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Post by Uncle on Feb 16, 2023 10:01:22 GMT -6

Feb 16, 2023 8:26:43 GMT -6 estang said:

Many of the great defensive players historically did not play much their first two seasons. The 2022 Eagles proved that theory out with Jordan Davis and Nakobe Dean from UGA not contributing much.

I think that's an interesting point. I just did an analysis on the 2022 Draft Class because I was wondering how well some of the defensive rookies did this past season after seeing several other NFL games and thinking out loud to myself that several defensive rookies were playing/starting and contributing really well...

You mentioned the Eagles not having their 2022 defensive rookies play many snaps and relying on veterans, but on the flipside of that coin, the Kansas City Chiefs drafted several defensive players in 2022 and many of them saw significant snaps during the 2022 season and they not only contributed snaps, but many of those snaps were "productive", as well.

Here is the Chiefs 2022 Draft class, their position, their snap count and what their PFF grade was for the 2022 season:

Defense:
Rd 1- Trent McDuffie, CB, 683 snaps, 73.6 PFF grade
Rd 1 - George Karlaftis, DE, 729 snaps, 52.0 PFF grade
Rd 2 - Bryan Cook, S, 341 snaps, 64.3 PFF grade
Rd 3 - Leo Chenal, LB, 262 snaps, 66.0 PFF grade
Rd 4 - Joshua Williams, CB, 437 snaps, 60.6 PFF grade
Rd 7 - Jaylon Watson, CB, 604 snaps, 56.1 PFF grade (74.6 grade in Super Bowl)
Rd 7 - Nazeeh Johnson, S, 0 snaps (on active roster, but not activated for Gamedays)

Offense:
Rd 2 - Skyy Moore, WR, 313 snaps, 70.9 PFF grade
Rd 5 - Darian Kinnard, OT, 0 snaps (on active roster, but not activated for Gamedays)
Rd 7 - Isaiah Pacheco, RB, 351 snaps, 74.6 PFF grade

So 7 out of the 10 players KC drafted in 2022 were on the defensive side of the ball and 6 of those 7 played a decent amount of snaps (200+) in their rookie season and 4 out of those 6 had PFF grades above 60.0.

With how valuable those initial 4-yr rookie contracts are, there might be a shift in traditional philosophies as teams really try to maximize the value of those rookie contracts by getting those rookies on the field in Year 1 because if the team can find out if those rookies are valuable depth pieces or even starters, it makes planning out the roster for the next season even easier when they know what they have in their younger players.

skolvikes
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With the 23rd pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 16, 2023 11:28:47 GMT -6 vikingpwr likes this

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Post by skolvikes on Feb 16, 2023 11:28:47 GMT -6

Feb 16, 2023 10:01:22 GMT -6 Uncle said:

With how valuable those initial 4-yr rookie contracts are, there might be a shift in traditional philosophies as teams really try to maximize the value of those rookie contracts by getting those rookies on the field in Year 1 because if the team can find out if those rookies are valuable depth pieces or even starters, it makes planning out the roster for the next season even easier when they know what they have in their younger players.

This. Such a great point and philosophy I wish the Vikings operated with.

stout93
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With the 23rd pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 16, 2023 13:24:37 GMT -6

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Post by stout93 on Feb 16, 2023 13:24:37 GMT -6

Feb 16, 2023 11:28:47 GMT -6 skolvikes said:

Feb 16, 2023 10:01:22 GMT -6 Uncle said:

With how valuable those initial 4-yr rookie contracts are, there might be a shift in traditional philosophies as teams really try to maximize the value of those rookie contracts by getting those rookies on the field in Year 1 because if the team can find out if those rookies are valuable depth pieces or even starters, it makes planning out the roster for the next season even easier when they know what they have in their younger players.

This. Such a great point and philosophy I wish the Vikings operated with.

Exactly. This ancient idea of 'evaluating draft classes after 3 years' that people on this board keep bringing up is ridiculous. This day and age, college players are more than ready to get on the field and contribute.

estang
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With the 23rd pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 16, 2023 14:42:17 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

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Post by estang on Feb 16, 2023 14:42:17 GMT -6

100% agree that there's more of an expectation and trend in today's NFL for a rookie drafted in the first three rounds to produce in year one - the higher drafted - the greater the expecation & to see what you get before they exit their rookie contract. There's just a lot of examples of HOF or near-HOF caliber players that didn't have a starter impact in their first couple of years.

Great analysis on the Chiefs draft class. Their salary cap situation dictated that they had to contribute.

I'm concerned that when they give Jefferson a huge deal that when you combine that with Cousins, there just won't be enough left over to compete.

It all draws me to picking the best available talent to contribute the most, right away. That's why I'm oscillating between a high-caliber WR like Addison or the kids from Alabama at #23.

Probably a topic for a different thread, but I think there's been way too much focus on the NFL salary cap and how to manage it as opposed to having the best players on the roster. This leads me to feel strongly that when a team drafts or signs an undrafted rookie to a deal, that it would be cool if their subsequent contracts contribute a lower percentage to the team's overall salary cap situation.

andhesloose28
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With the 23rd pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 16, 2023 15:24:29 GMT -6

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Post by andhesloose28 on Feb 16, 2023 15:24:29 GMT -6

I dont claim to be a good scout but this Addison kid looks like a gimmick. Highlight tape isnt even impressive, all quick screen type passes. Doesnt look that fast and looks little. Hard pass for me unless im missing something.

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With the 23rd pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 16, 2023 16:09:30 GMT -6 Danchat and skolvikes like this

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Post by Jor-El on Feb 16, 2023 16:09:30 GMT -6

Feb 15, 2023 9:59:37 GMT -6 Uncle said:

If anyone thinks that the Vikings can easily find a WR2 on the open market his offseason that won't cost "premium" money, they would probably be mistaken. If you look at the Market Values on Spotrac for UFA WR that are generallly considered WR2/WR3's (DJ Chark, Allen Lazard, Jakobi Meyers, Deonte Hardy, JuJu Smith-Schuster, Mecole Hardman, etc), most of them are either at that $10m per-season avg or even above. Unless the Viking really take the axe to the 2023 cap and chopdown a great deal of the premium players they do have to make room, I'm not sure they'll have the space to add a WR2/WR3 on the open market unless they can somehow find a steal for a lesser WR they feel can turn into a WR2 in O'Connell's offense.

Always great insight and scouting, Uncle! So true about the climbing price of WR2s in FA. I have seen suggestions about DJ Chark to the Vikings, in part for his deep-threat ability to complement Jefferson and Hockenson, but also people making connections with his links to Keenan McCardell and possibly Jefferson. But, much as he might like playing for McCardell and with JJ, players rarely give any team a "bargain" due to their friendships.

But wouldn't it be cool if our receiving unit was JJ, TJ, DJ, and KJ?? The J-team?

Feb 15, 2023 9:59:37 GMT -6 Uncle said:

And since I believe the Vikings need to invest more in an outside WR who can create separation, here are some "outside" WR prospects that could be had on Day 2 of the 2023 NFL Draft:

A.T. Perry, Wake Forest
Cedric Tillman, Tennessee
Keyshon Boutte, LSU
Jonathan Mingo, Ole Miss

Good prospects to watch. I personally like Keyshon Boutte a lot.

Feb 15, 2023 14:58:13 GMT -6 SiteWolf said:

plus, have they really explored what Nwangwu could be in the offense?

It appears the coaching staff has answered the question about Nwangwu's potential outside special teams, at least to their satisfaction.

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With the 23rd pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 16, 2023 18:19:14 GMT -6 andhesloose28 likes this

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Post by SiteWolf on Feb 16, 2023 18:19:14 GMT -6

Feb 16, 2023 15:24:29 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

I dont claim to be a good scout but this Addison kid looks like a gimmick. Highlight tape isnt even impressive, all quick screen type passes. Doesnt look that fast and looks little. Hard pass for me unless im missing something.

I'm a Pac 12 fan and, to be honest, I was shocked to see him rated as a 1st rounder...I just never saw that in college.

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With the 23rd pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 16, 2023 18:32:30 GMT -6 ukvikings likes this

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Post by Danchat on Feb 16, 2023 18:32:30 GMT -6

Feb 16, 2023 18:19:14 GMT -6 SiteWolf said:

Feb 16, 2023 15:24:29 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

I dont claim to be a good scout but this Addison kid looks like a gimmick. Highlight tape isnt even impressive, all quick screen type passes. Doesnt look that fast and looks little. Hard pass for me unless im missing something.

I'm a Pac 12 fan and, to be honest, I was shocked to see him rated as a 1st rounder...I just never saw that in college.

I wonder if it's more based on his play at Pittsburgh? He had a crazy 100/1593/17 line as a sophomore at Pitt. Gotta wonder why his numbers dropped off so much, not just because of competition.

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With the 23rd pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 16, 2023 18:51:33 GMT -6 andhesloose28, FSUVike, and 1 more like this

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Post by SiteWolf on Feb 16, 2023 18:51:33 GMT -6

Feb 16, 2023 18:32:30 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Feb 16, 2023 18:19:14 GMT -6 SiteWolf said:

I'm a Pac 12 fan and, to be honest, I was shocked to see him rated as a 1st rounder...I just never saw that in college.

I wonder if it's more based on his play at Pittsburgh? He had a crazy 100/1593/17 line as a sophomore at Pitt. Gotta wonder why his numbers dropped off so much, not just because of competition.

and the Heisman winner was throwing to him this last year......now, USC's WR room was loaded, but it's not like he stood out that much....barely top 10 in the conference

Dalton Kincaid, now him I can see as a legitimate 1st rounder....but a TE

speaking of TE....if ppl want another receiver, another South Dakota product from the national champion Jackrabbits team, Tucker Kraft, would be a beast to play opposite TJ

andhesloose28 Franchise Player Posts: 3,034 Likes: 2,156	With the 23rd pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 17, 2023 8:10:43 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by andhesloose28 on Feb 17, 2023 8:10:43 GMT -6 Dont take the Treadwell again because of need!!

andhesloose28
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With the 23rd pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 17, 2023 8:31:20 GMT -6

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Post by andhesloose28 on Feb 17, 2023 8:31:20 GMT -6

Feb 15, 2023 13:16:46 GMT -6 FSUVike said:

Look at Kansas City. They have Kelce as their #1 Pass Catching option. Smith-Schuster is there Possession WR. MVS and Hardman can go deep. Hardman is also a YAC guy.

Id love a stud to pair with JJ but my consensus is that guy isnt there RD1 this year, or worth it. Based on the KC approach do you think Nailor could be that deep threat? He claims hes the fastest guy on the team lol

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With the 23rd pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 17, 2023 10:53:05 GMT -6

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Post by Jor-El on Feb 17, 2023 10:53:05 GMT -6

Feb 16, 2023 18:51:33 GMT -6 SiteWolf said:

speaking of TE....if ppl want another receiver, another South Dakota product from the national champion Jackrabbits team, Tucker Kraft, would be a beast to play opposite TJ

It would be nice to have a good blocking TE, but I think that was the intent in drafting Nick Muse last year. Hope he has improved and can supplant Johnny Mundt, maybe even be a player like David Morgan was.

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With the 23rd pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 17, 2023 13:12:09 GMT -6 via mobile andhesloose28 likes this

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Post by FSUVike on Feb 17, 2023 13:12:09 GMT -6

Feb 17, 2023 8:31:20 GMT -6 andhesloose28 said:

Feb 15, 2023 13:16:46 GMT -6 FSUVike said:

Look at Kansas City. They have Kelce as their #1 Pass Catching option. Smith-Schuster is there Possession WR. MVS and Hardman can go deep. Hardman is also a YAC guy.

Id love a stud to pair with JJ but my consensus is that guy isnt there RD1 this year, or worth it. Based on the KC approach do you think Nailor could be that deep threat? He claims hes the fastest guy on the team lol

I'm not putting all my eggs in the Nailor/Reagor basket. That's why I'd spend a Day 3 pick on the position. Probably the compensatory pick. But if they don't I'd understand why.

Here's how I think the targets will break down without Thielen:

Target1: JJ
Target2: Hockenson
Target3: KJ/Nailor/Draft Pick/Reagor (or a sleeper like Bisi
Target4: RB1/TE2/RB2

The only guys that can get deep in the Target3 group are Nailor and Reagor. Obviously nobody in Target4 would be a deep threat.

All the talk about a big bodied Possession WR on the Outside that Minnesota hasn't had in ages. But that type of WR isn't going to threaten Teams deep if they pay too much attention to JJ. And Hock is that big bodied/big catch radius intermediate threat anyway.

Get a burner that can take the top off. That's why you don't give up on Reagor so soon. There's literally no harm in giving him a full offseason with WR Whisperer Kennan McCardell to see if there's something there. Have him compete with Nailor and a Draft Pick. If he's behind both he's the Punt Returner or even gone if the Draft Pick can also return punts, which would be ideal.

Last Edit: Feb 17, 2023 13:12:31 GMT -6 by FSUVike

wivikesfan
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With the 23rd pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 17, 2023 13:27:35 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by wivikesfan on Feb 17, 2023 13:27:35 GMT -6

Feb 16, 2023 13:24:37 GMT -6 stout93 said:

Feb 16, 2023 11:28:47 GMT -6 skolvikes said:

This. Such a great point and philosophy I wish the Vikings operated with.

Exactly. This ancient idea of 'evaluating draft classes after 3 years' that people on this board keep bringing up is ridiculous. This day and age, college players are more than ready to get on the field and contribute.

I don't know if this is true or not. Limit it to the first 3 rounds of the draft... how many players are good right away and how many take a year or two?

stout93 Backup Posts: 434 Likes: 233	With the 23rd pick, your Minnesota Vikings select... Feb 17, 2023 17:05:13 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by stout93 on Feb 17, 2023 17:05:13 GMT -6 Just think our WR2 would have been solved for the next 8 years if Kwesi would have just sat on his ass and picked Williams...