Vikings acquire WR Jalen Reagor From Eagles - Waive ISM

Uncle
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Vikings acquire WR Jalen Reagor From Eagles - Waive ISM Sept 1, 2022 15:27:23 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

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Post by Uncle on Sept 1, 2022 15:27:23 GMT -6

Sept 1, 2022 14:42:38 GMT -6 FSUVike said:

Did he perform well enough to feel good about him getting playing time if/when Thielen gets hurt?

I actually thought he progressed well throughout preseason and Training Camp and improved from Year 1. They featured him a bunch in Game 1 in Vegas and he had a bobbled return and bobbled (but eventually caught) a deep crosser. After that, he played really well and in Game 3, he had a really good high-point snag on the outside on a 3rd down that moved the chains and a solid punt return - an overall solid performance that most Vikings beat writers suggested "solidifed" his place on the active roster.

Here was Arif Hasan's thoughts after preseason Game 3 regarding who makes the WR active roster (link):
Not only is their starting three one of the best in the NFL, but the development they’ve seen in camp from Ihmir Smith-Marsette and the return of Johnson have set them up to have a great five-man rotation. Smith-Marsette has been up-and-down in the punt return role, but the potential for big plays is tantalizing, and his team-leading 121 receiving yards in the preseason speaks well to his ability to contribute on offense, too.
It's not as-if Smith-Marsette's cap # was bogging down any roster decisons (he's on Yr 2 of a cheap, 5th Rd rookie contract) and if he was progressing beyond the "Nailor gadget" skillset, he could have easily been kept on the 53-man in place of a 10th OL (like Udoh), and you would have had a 6-man WR room that consisted of Bisi's replacement in Reagor and a progressing Smith-Marsette if you had multiple WR injuries.

Perhaps the coaching staff saw things differently than what was seen in the TC reports and preseason games, but fans scratching their heads a bit after the waiving of Smith-Marsette wasn't an unreasonable position given what information fans have access to.

Last Edit: Sept 1, 2022 15:27:46 GMT -6 by Uncle

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Vikings acquire WR Jalen Reagor From Eagles - Waive ISM Sept 1, 2022 15:32:16 GMT -6

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Post by PurpleKoolaid on Sept 1, 2022 15:32:16 GMT -6

Sept 1, 2022 12:23:55 GMT -6 MidwinterViking said:

Sept 1, 2022 10:50:01 GMT -6 Uncle said:

That's where the question of "is it worth what we paid" comes into play and how much value we're receiving for the cost...

The Vikings will be paying the following for a Punt Returner and someone who will be "holding down the fort" in the WR room if Jefferson, Thielen and/or Osborn go down:

- 7th Rd 2023 Draft pick
- 4th or 5th Rd 2024 Draft pick
- $1.8m in 2022 cap space
- $2.4m in 2023 cap space ($4.2m total cap space over 2 yrs)

The Vikings were paying Smith-Marsette the following:

- $0.9m in 2022 cap space
- $1.0m in 2023 cap space
- $1.1m in 2024 cap space ($3.0m in cap space over 2 yrs)

So the Vikings paid an additional $1.2m in cap space, along with a 7th Rd pick in 2023 and a 4th/5th Rd pick in 2024 for Reagor over what they would have paid with Smith-Marsette. Will they be getting that much additional value in Reagor over Smith-Marsette? It's hard to say right now obviously because it's all hypothetical - what Reagor "might do" in Minnesota in the next 2 years and what Smith-Marsette's progress "might have" been have the Vikings kept him...

But if that Purple Insider article is correct - meaning the following concluding statement turns out to be true: "The recent history of first-round receivers who did not take off in their first two years is not promising to the Vikings’ chances of discovering a gem" - then it's certainly possible the Vikings may have lost value in what they paid for Reagor compared to what they would have paid for Smith-Marsette.

Which would you rather have:

$2M less cap space and lose a mid round pick.
OR
Hold your breath every time Smith-Marsette is standing under a punt.

While having the money would be nice, I would be terrified at watching ISM field punts. The spreadsheets will probably say the Vikings could have squeezed another $1M out of the punt return roster spot, but this is a situation where football need outweighs the math.

Given KAM's penny pinching elsewhere, I'm sure there was a cost benefit calculation done on other returners.

Ultimately even if the cost was higher than I'd like, I was so nervous about ISM returning punts, I can't bring myself to care about what amounts to about 0.8% of the salary cap.

What makes you think Raegor can field punts better than ISM? He cant even catch TD passes for TDs. Not sure why people now hate ISM but love a bust of a first round pick. Or is KOC a WR whisperer too? Or maybe Keenan is.

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Vikings acquire WR Jalen Reagor From Eagles - Waive ISM Sept 1, 2022 15:38:24 GMT -6 via mobile PurpleKoolaid likes this

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Post by giveemthehorns on Sept 1, 2022 15:38:24 GMT -6

Sept 1, 2022 15:32:16 GMT -6 PurpleKoolaid said:

Sept 1, 2022 12:23:55 GMT -6 MidwinterViking said:

Which would you rather have:

$2M less cap space and lose a mid round pick.
OR
Hold your breath every time Smith-Marsette is standing under a punt.

While having the money would be nice, I would be terrified at watching ISM field punts. The spreadsheets will probably say the Vikings could have squeezed another $1M out of the punt return roster spot, but this is a situation where football need outweighs the math.

Given KAM's penny pinching elsewhere, I'm sure there was a cost benefit calculation done on other returners.

Ultimately even if the cost was higher than I'd like, I was so nervous about ISM returning punts, I can't bring myself to care about what amounts to about 0.8% of the salary cap.

What makes you think Raegor can field punts better than ISM? He cant even catch TD passes for TDs. Not sure why people now hate ISM but love a bust of a first round pick. Or is KOC a WR whisperer too? Or maybe Keenan is.

My problem is the one or the other narrative this has fallen into. They could have had both. I thought the Reagor move was a great way to sure up the bottom side of the WR depth chart. You us him and ISM according to matchups and situations but either could be useful. Now I honestly feel like we've downgraded the depth. I mean Nailor is not some prodigy that couldn't be exposed to waivers. Or they could have just kept 6 like we all figured they were going to pre Bisi injury.

But mark my words. ISM will be wr2 for Chicago by week 3. We gave Justin Fields a young talented wide receiver to grow with.

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Vikings acquire WR Jalen Reagor From Eagles - Waive ISM Sept 1, 2022 15:39:43 GMT -6

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Post by PurpleKoolaid on Sept 1, 2022 15:39:43 GMT -6

Sept 1, 2022 12:31:09 GMT -6 Minniman said:

Sept 1, 2022 12:28:26 GMT -6 giveemthehorns said:

In 24 starts out of 29 games he's played Jalen Reagor has never racked up more than 60 yards receiving in any game.

In his one start in his rookie year ISM went for 100 yards on 3 catches and a TD.

I'm not saying, I'm just saying.

I like ISM coming into the draft.

I liked the pick.

I didn't like ISM's attitude in college.

I didn't like ISM's attitude in the NFL.

Sometimes, players have to grow up.

The best receiver MN ever had, and maybe the best ever to play the game had attitude (and almost game Joe Buck a heart attack) in Randy Moss. He caled down and is my favorite player. ISM just needed some time. KJ had attitude too, still does.

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Vikings acquire WR Jalen Reagor From Eagles - Waive ISM Sept 1, 2022 15:45:08 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

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Post by JABF on Sept 1, 2022 15:45:08 GMT -6

Aug 31, 2022 13:37:16 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

JABF ?

Wow, I just saw where the Bears claimed him off waivers. It sounds like a low risk move. If he doesn't pan out it's not that big of a deal.

"Do anything that might make the world a better place for someone" -Walter Payton

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Vikings acquire WR Jalen Reagor From Eagles - Waive ISM Sept 1, 2022 15:53:08 GMT -6 Funkytown, PurpleKoolaid, and 1 more like this

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Post by Uncle on Sept 1, 2022 15:53:08 GMT -6

In an indirect way, Kwesi has "given" each NFC North opponent a WR opportunity...

Lions: trade down in Rd 1 allowed Detroit to draft Jameson Williams

Packers: trade down in 2nd Rd allowed Green Bay to draft Christian Watson

Bears: waived Smith-Marsette allowed Chicago to claim him

With Williams probably missing at least half his rookie season and Romeo Doubbs possibly passing Watson on the Packer's WR depth chart, Smith-Marsette could possibly have the most productive season of the three Kwesi WR "gifts" to the Viking's NFC North foes....

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Vikings acquire WR Jalen Reagor From Eagles - Waive ISM Sept 1, 2022 16:12:55 GMT -6 TAFKASP, comet52, and 1 more like this

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Post by vikingpwr on Sept 1, 2022 16:12:55 GMT -6

Sept 1, 2022 15:53:08 GMT -6 Uncle said:

In an indirect way, Kwesi has "given" each NFC North opponent a WR opportunity...

Lions: trade down in Rd 1 allowed Detroit to draft Jameson Williams

Packers: trade down in 2nd Rd allowed Green Bay to draft Christian Watson

Bears: waived Smith-Marsette allowed Chicago to claim him

With Williams probably missing at least half his rookie season and Romeo Doubbs possibly passing Watson on the Packer's WR depth chart, Smith-Marsette could possibly have the most productive season of the three Kwesi WR "gifts" to the Viking's NFC North foes....

Why are some many Viking fans concerned about these WRs? I just don't get it. Williams has a bum knee, Watson is supposedly behind Doubbs, and ISM is a run-of-mill receiver. I find myself yawning every time someone mentions them hurting the Vikings. Talk about crowning someone before they've played a significant amount of time in the big boy league.

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Vikings acquire WR Jalen Reagor From Eagles - Waive ISM Sept 1, 2022 16:43:52 GMT -6 Funkytown, vikingpwr, and 1 more like this

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Post by MidwinterViking on Sept 1, 2022 16:43:52 GMT -6

Sept 1, 2022 15:32:16 GMT -6 PurpleKoolaid said:

Sept 1, 2022 12:23:55 GMT -6 MidwinterViking said:

Which would you rather have:

$2M less cap space and lose a mid round pick.
OR
Hold your breath every time Smith-Marsette is standing under a punt.

While having the money would be nice, I would be terrified at watching ISM field punts. The spreadsheets will probably say the Vikings could have squeezed another $1M out of the punt return roster spot, but this is a situation where football need outweighs the math.

Given KAM's penny pinching elsewhere, I'm sure there was a cost benefit calculation done on other returners.

Ultimately even if the cost was higher than I'd like, I was so nervous about ISM returning punts, I can't bring myself to care about what amounts to about 0.8% of the salary cap.

What makes you think Raegor can field punts better than ISM? He cant even catch TD passes for TDs. Not sure why people now hate ISM but love a bust of a first round pick. Or is KOC a WR whisperer too? Or maybe Keenan is.

The answer is very simple, I watched Smith-Marsette flail helplessly as he attempted to field punts and kicks. He had one underlying problem: he kept dropping them. If Smith-Marsette had been the punt returner this season, I feel there was an extremely high likelihood than an inexcusable mistake on his part would cost the Vikings a game.

Don't mix this up as hating Smith-Marsette as a receiver, that is a different job. As a receiver, he seemed to be acceptable as a WR4 that could become a WR3 deep threat in a year or two. However, a guy that might be a good role player is a few years that is a liability on special teams right now is a liability right now.

Let's say, just for the sake of arguement, that Smith-Marsette is a better receiver than Reagor (I don't know that 5 catches qualifies anyone as better than anyone else, and 89% of his yards came is week 18 as the Vikings kicked the Bears teeth in, and 38% of his total career yards came on one play when his defender fell down), but Reagor is better than Smith-Marsette on punts. In that case, I prefer Reagor.

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Vikings acquire WR Jalen Reagor From Eagles - Waive ISM Sept 1, 2022 17:07:16 GMT -6

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Post by SiteWolf on Sept 1, 2022 17:07:16 GMT -6

Sept 1, 2022 11:53:52 GMT -6 Minniman said:

Aug 31, 2022 18:14:34 GMT -6 SiteWolf said:

Not comparing him in any other way than this but....anyone remember a talented but troubled WR the Eagles gave up on who came to the Vikings and did pretty well with the change of scenery? His initials are CC.

Although it sounds good, that is an false analogy and illogical.

There are thousands of receivers teams have given up on, including hundreds of Eagles, that did not ever come close to what the Hall of Fame receiver Cris Carter did in the NFL.

The odds of making it big in the NFL after being drafted are small; the odds of making it big after starting out poorly and being traded are almost astronomical.

Then again:

Heard in multiple places, media types talking about the trade and how Reagor slots in nicely as the Vikings' #3 'so there'll be less pressure on him'. Umm, guys, he was already #3 at BEST in Philly and he'll slot in as #4 at BEST in Minnesota. Apparently none of them have heard of KJ Osborn.

SiteWolf Team Captain Posts: 1,985 Likes: 1,421 Fan Since: virtually the beginning Member is Online	Vikings acquire WR Jalen Reagor From Eagles - Waive ISM Sept 1, 2022 17:10:04 GMT -6 NoresemanSam likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by SiteWolf on Sept 1, 2022 17:10:04 GMT -6 Sept 1, 2022 13:39:09 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said: If it's a "first round talent" we wanted, couldn't we have signed Treadwell for cheaper??

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Vikings acquire WR Jalen Reagor From Eagles - Waive ISM Sept 1, 2022 17:51:31 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by FSUVike on Sept 1, 2022 17:51:31 GMT -6

Sept 1, 2022 16:12:55 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Sept 1, 2022 15:53:08 GMT -6 Uncle said:

In an indirect way, Kwesi has "given" each NFC North opponent a WR opportunity...

Lions: trade down in Rd 1 allowed Detroit to draft Jameson Williams

Packers: trade down in 2nd Rd allowed Green Bay to draft Christian Watson

Bears: waived Smith-Marsette allowed Chicago to claim him

With Williams probably missing at least half his rookie season and Romeo Doubbs possibly passing Watson on the Packer's WR depth chart, Smith-Marsette could possibly have the most productive season of the three Kwesi WR "gifts" to the Viking's NFC North foes....

Why are some many Viking fans concerned about these WRs? I just don't get it. Williams has a bum knee, Watson is supposedly behind Doubbs, and ISM is a run-of-mill receiver. I find myself yawning every time someone mentions them hurting the Vikings. Talk about crowning someone before they've played a significant amount of time in the big boy league.

Literally can get an ISM in the 4th, 5th or 6th every year the last 2 or 3 years. These fringe WR4/WR5 guys are as ubiquitous as good RBs now.

Meanwhile, Tyler Johnson gets cut. Far better prospect with a much higher ceiling.

The Bears suck. And people here are wringing their hands over Chicago feasting on Minnesota's table scraps.

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Vikings acquire WR Jalen Reagor From Eagles - Waive ISM Sept 1, 2022 17:59:55 GMT -6

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Post by vikingpwr on Sept 1, 2022 17:59:55 GMT -6

Sept 1, 2022 17:51:31 GMT -6 FSUVike said:

Sept 1, 2022 16:12:55 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Why are some many Viking fans concerned about these WRs? I just don't get it. Williams has a bum knee, Watson is supposedly behind Doubbs, and ISM is a run-of-mill receiver. I find myself yawning every time someone mentions them hurting the Vikings. Talk about crowning someone before they've played a significant amount of time in the big boy league.

Literally can get an ISM in the 4th, 5th or 6th every year the last 2 or 3 years. These fringe WR4/WR5 guys are as ubiquitous as good RBs now.

Meanwhile, Tyler Johnson gets cut. Far better prospect with a much higher ceiling.

The Bears suck. And people here are wringing their hands over Chicago feasting on Minnesota's table scraps.

What's all the hype on Williams and Watson for? Are they all of a sudden going to morph into Jerry Rice or Randy Moss over night? I think people are still pissed off at Kwesi for trading in the draft to get more players in the top 100.

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Vikings acquire WR Jalen Reagor From Eagles - Waive ISM Sept 1, 2022 17:59:55 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by Funkytown on Sept 1, 2022 17:59:55 GMT -6

Sept 1, 2022 15:45:08 GMT -6 JABF said:

Aug 31, 2022 13:37:16 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

JABF ?

Wow, I just saw where the Bears claimed him off waivers. It sounds like a low risk move. If he doesn't pan out it's not that big of a deal.

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Vikings acquire WR Jalen Reagor From Eagles - Waive ISM Sept 1, 2022 18:09:17 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by giveemthehorns on Sept 1, 2022 18:09:17 GMT -6

Diggs was a 5th rounder. Adam wasn't drafted. Osborn in the 4th. There needs to be an explanation. Beyond the PR nonsense. You don't get rid of talent because you didn't pick him. If that's kwesi then he needs to go and so does KOC, right now.

Last Edit: Sept 1, 2022 18:14:10 GMT -6 by giveemthehorns

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