[OC] If Stafford Can Do It....

I didn't say we should have "sucked worse".  Being locked up, fully guaranteed into a QB means if any other QB comes along and you could take him, it is very unlikely you will take a shot at him.  

However, if the greatest GM/HC of all time thinks sucking for a year to rebuild your team is the right move, then it is probably the right move, and that is exactly what he did in 2020 to great success in 2021.


Well then you weren't paying attention.  I mean, if Case Keenum can play like an MVP under Zimmer, Mahommes sure could have.  Not sure how you can look at EVERY QB he has ever coached having their best season(s) with him as their HC and claim he was going to hold back a guy like Mahommes.  That just doesn't add up.


Favre and Aaron have both come out and said Favre wasn't helpful at all as a mentor.  Intentionally.  Sitting for a few years is unique and does provide some benefits though.  As our current QB found out with his "special circumstances" in Washington.  


Brady makes his Oline look better than it is by getting rid of the ball quickly.  Nearly every FA NE Olineman who goes to another team has sucked as soon as they left NE and there is a reason for that. 

Wilson missed hasn't had the legion of boom in years and still consistently made the playoffs despite having one of the worst Olines in football.  He also had a HC who focused on the D yet somehow he succeeded at a far higher level than Cousins ever did with Zimmer. Imagine that.  

Eli's defense when he last won the SB was ranked worse than the 2021 Vikings in points given up.  His leading rusher ran for 659 yards on the season and his Oline was ranked 32nd in pass blocking.   A worse team than Cousins has ever had in MN, and he won a SB with it while Cousins can't even make the playoffs.  


QBs do have a huge impact on team stats and while there does reach a point that there is only so much a QB can do, Cousins has never hit that point at any time in his career except maybe 2017. 

Teams that make their QB look better generally don't do well in the playoffs.  The Denny Green era Vikings are a prime example of that and again, if that is the type of team you want to build, you would not start that team by taking a huge chunk of salary and spending it on a QB who needs a ton of help to succeed.  You spend very little on the QB who needs help, so you could spend more on giving him that help.



His circumstance absolutely have not been difficult/odd enough. As I said before, 4 of his 7 seasons as a QB he has had an OC who either won a SB or won coach of the year as a HC, he has only had 2 bottom ten scoring defenses, compared to two top 10, 0 bottom 5 scoring D's, compared to 1 top 3, has had a top 9 receiving corps 6 of his 7 seasons and top 3 3 times.

He has had a TON of help to get to be even the average QB he is today.

The contract is a reality and is part of the discussion with the issues since he never lives up to it. Doesn't need to be a focus but it also shouldn't be downplayed/ignored if you want to have a real conversation about the context...

Lol you now are trying to talk about the contract in a way to downplay it. I agree that JJ is on an elite contract but that doesn't change Cousins is on a bad one taking too much cap. What would make me feel better is if we had enough cap space to win with Cousins as QB and that would be easier if he made less. It isn't irrelevant, you use cap space to add players to your team. You are the one that keeps saying it's a team game right? Well he needed more help because he wasn't good enough but we couldn't afford it. His cap hit being near the top of the league is worth mentioning when that's the context.

We haven't even tried drafting one in the top 10 though, might be part of the issue. We are paying a tax on Cousins because we thought he would help lift us up from where Keenum/Zimmer had us in 2017. It failed miserably and we keep deciding to pay up anyways (he has had 2 extensions now this isn't all due to overpaying that one FA). 

Anyways this mostly ignored the main point of my post. You chose to focus on his cap while saying it's played out talking point lol. You demanded if he finally does have one season exceeding expectations in his long career that people eat crow and pretended there would be some spin or agenda against him still. The reality is he is currently ranked based on his current levels of play and he will continue to be ranked that way by most. There is no need for spin, execs rank him 15th and most outside this fanbase have him that range. The ones needing spin are the ones that have defended him for years saying he is top 10 or whatever and we can win with him but we never do. They blame everyone else, sometimes to extreme levels but if you dare point at Cousins as a big part of the issue? Well that's totally unacceptable to them for some reason while they take that approach. 

If that's a fact you probably shouldn't have focused your response on that small aspect of my post lol.

Why is it rational to not address the data often referenced? I have shared and noted multiple aspects that have been covered often in depth but you didn't respond to those aspects by your own choice. You are complaining $ is played out while choosing to focus on it yourself instead of getting into the data, again how is that rational?

None of what I have been pointing out gives him all the blame. He does share some of the blame with other key members of this organization over the past 4 years though, sure people are saying that and showing why. He has some flaws and issues keeping him from being a top 10 QB to most people (that show up in 2nd read data, decision making data, examples from the 49ers game when he was surrounded by good talent along with some 3rd down data and other threads like from Reignman). That isn't blaming him for everything but it also ranks him according to the full context. Again that's why execs ranked him 15th and most outside the fan base have him closer to that range.  

I agree though that we certainly deserve a championship and believe it or not I think those that are critical of Cousins are doing so with that goal in mind. If we want one then we need to put ourselves in the best position to win one and that's where this team presents some issues (and Vegas has us at 9 wins or whatever for a reason). 

That's the thing, most of the time I discuss rationally, noting context and data I get generalizations back. It's just so tiring to constantly have these circles with people who refuse to actually discuss the data and issues pointed out with Cousins.

All while using strawman arguments/narratives that no one is actually arguing and then generalize based off them (for example no one says the team isn't important too that I have seen). It just keeps happening on here, seemingly to write off negative analysis/data/context related to Cousins as hating. I have shared articles with data. I have shared my own breakdowns of games/drives. I have shared analysis and video from twitter breaking it down further with different views. I have referenced work from other like whoskmoon and reignman. I have referenced multiple rankings like the execs one recently shared by funkytown I think it was. If you want to generalize about people the least you could do is actually have a real discussion with them first. If you don't care to comment on the data then probably realize that's a massive aspect that plays into how Cousins is ranked. You don't have to care to comment but avoiding it while pushing narratives doesn't make you seem like the rational one...

Why is it that the discussion can never focus on reality/context when it comes to Cousins? Why are you responding to me complaining in a generalized way while focusing on the issue you complain too many people focus on? I just don't understand why these circles keep happening over and over instead of discussing the actual context. His actual play. The actual data. Just generalizations and deflecting away from it in order to paint others as haters with an agenda looking to spin etc. instead. 

Well all I can say is realize the ones trying to be rational about Kirk are probably the ones spending their time trying to discuss actual analysis, data, stats, context and not the ones trying to paint a group in a bunch of ways with ridiculous generalizations, narratives and yes strawman arguments. If you ever want to actually talk about him in that real analysis sense and try backing up opinions with data and reasoning about him I would certainly be willing to explain why execs and others would rank him more average as a QB than top 10. It isn't about hating or anything like that no matter what is said.

I don't love the word strawman and it isn't just midwesterners using it haha. I use it because you say things like the first quote I responded to earlier with the "apparently wins are all that matters and performance/situational stats don't matter" etc. type stuff. Adding in that they won't factor in the positives at least. Or the talk about how people will look to spin his success narrative. That's not at all what people have been saying/doing. You are the one completely unwilling now to discuss the data. You have time for that type of BS but not real discussion or analysis so stop pretending it's the other way around. I used the word because it fit. 

What was he doing in the past that made him unworthy of it?