QB contracts/ cap hits.

PurpleFloyd
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QB contracts/ cap hits. Dec 25, 2021 20:07:59 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Dec 25, 2021 20:07:59 GMT -6

Every topic about the roster ends up with the contract Kirk signed and how much cap room he is going to take up in the next two years.

I agree it’s a huge amount of money but we are not going to be the only team dealing with this situation and the question that needs to be asked is how is the league going to fix it?

Some years back teams were getting into a similar situation with rookie contracts and they finally had to restructure the way rookie contracts were done so that they only took a certain percentage of the cap and it’s coming to the time that the QB position has some sort of rev limiter installed as well.

I am by nature a free market type and believe the market should set the salaries but the whole payroll for teams is anything but free market so it can’t really operate that way.

When you look at present contracts you have guys like
Kirk
Mahomes
Allen

Signed to contracts that will exceed 40 million a year.

And you have others like
Rodgers
Wilson
Jackson
That will get new contracts to eclipse that amount.

And you have some new taken that will get second contracts that traditionally reset the top of the market . Guys like

Murray
Burrow
Herbert

And then you need to consider that when the top is reset it elevates the contracts of lower tier players so that those QBs will be getting contracts in the 30’s rather than the teens to 20’s.

I think the best way to stop these contracts is to take away the ability to shift dollars from the contract to later years. By not backloading contracts it will force teams to be more responsible in the deals they sign.

Or will they just adjust the total team cap to allow this escalation in contract amounts?

Considering the salary for Kirk as an example went from 30 million in 2018 to 45 million in 2022 that’s a 50% increase in 4 years. I understand the numbers I gave are not exact and I am not a numbers wonk who is going to parse numbers for hours to the penny. I’m just looking for discussion on the macro, not the micro.

It’s something that we are going to deal with soon as will the league. How would you fix it? Or isn’t it really a problem?

legendsofthenorth Ring of Honor Enter your message here... Posts: 5,726 Likes: 3,265	QB contracts/ cap hits. Dec 25, 2021 20:40:43 GMT -6 via mobile whuisman and snotbubbles like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by legendsofthenorth on Dec 25, 2021 20:40:43 GMT -6 One thing they could do is stop making all the rules QB friendly. Then other players would become more important

vikingpwr Living Legend Posts: 21,391 Likes: 4,606	QB contracts/ cap hits. Dec 25, 2021 20:53:44 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by vikingpwr on Dec 25, 2021 20:53:44 GMT -6 Dec 25, 2021 20:40:43 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said: One thing they could do is stop making all the rules QB friendly. How? I'd like to hear your ideas.

PurpleFloyd
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QB contracts/ cap hits. Dec 25, 2021 21:07:18 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Dec 25, 2021 21:07:18 GMT -6

Dec 25, 2021 20:40:43 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

One thing they could do is stop making all the rules QB friendly. Then other players would become more important

Certainly not among the things I was thinking but I agree with you. Having guys play into their late 30’s and 40’s certainly does have an impact and that’s only happening because of the rules created to keep them upright in the pocket.

Good suggestion.

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QB contracts/ cap hits. Dec 25, 2021 22:10:51 GMT -6 Danchat and PurpleFloyd like this

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Post by Reignman on Dec 25, 2021 22:10:51 GMT -6

Dec 25, 2021 20:07:59 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

I agree it’s a huge amount of money but we are not going to be the only team dealing with this situation and the question that needs to be asked is how is the league going to fix it?

Well I had an answer, but then I kept reading and saw you stole my answer in the very next paragraph. *lol*

Dec 25, 2021 20:07:59 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Some years back teams were getting into a similar situation with rookie contracts and they finally had to restructure the way rookie contracts were done so that they only took a certain percentage of the cap and it’s coming to the time that the QB position has some sort of rev limiter installed as well.

Yeah that's the first thing I thought. A QB or position based cap. A single player can't make more than X% of the cap.

Dec 25, 2021 20:07:59 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

I understand the numbers I gave are not exact and I am not a numbers wonk who is going to parse numbers for hours to the penny.

Paging Dr. @aussie61 *whistle*

I'm too busy researching dubious records xD.

Dec 25, 2021 20:07:59 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

It’s something that we are going to deal with soon as will the league. How would you fix it? Or isn’t it really a problem?

Just to play devils advocate ... but maybe the problem will work itself out eventually? Meaning, if QB contracts continue at the current rate, eventually teams will be paying too much for a QB and the rest of their roster will suffer. Teams will start winning with other pieces, a good running game or defense. Which should in theory drive QB contracts down. I'm seeing signs of that already. So much ass playing QB this year.

The solution might be accelerated by the fact that a lot of these QB's aren't worth the money, like Cousins for example. You can't surround him with the talent that's needed to elevate him to championship caliber because you're already paying him like a championship caliber QB lol. It's a catch-22. Will the Browns actually pay Baker? That will accelerate the solution. I mean they can't continue paying all these crappy QB's all this money for sub .500 results. It's going to get harder and harder to justify anyway.

Teams need to start asking that question though. Does this QB elevate the players around him like a Favre, or do you need to surrounded him with a talented team to elevate him to that level, like a Cousins?

That's from a fans perspective though. We expect championships ... some of us anyway *whistle*

and owners only want to make money, so they probably don't care if Cousins can win championships, they only need him to fill seats. A QB is just an investment to them.

Aug 8, 2024 18:42:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

if sitting and watching something versus actually doing it made a person great at it, Reignman would be the next Ron Jeremy.

Raptorman Hall of Fame Inductee Posts: 18,526 Likes: 8,273 Fan Since: November 6, 1966.	QB contracts/ cap hits. Dec 25, 2021 23:05:25 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Raptorman on Dec 25, 2021 23:05:25 GMT -6 Waiting for that first player to sign a contract that gives him a percentage of the cap rather than a dollar amount.
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Danchat
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QB contracts/ cap hits. Dec 25, 2021 23:05:48 GMT -6

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Post by Danchat on Dec 25, 2021 23:05:48 GMT -6

Dec 25, 2021 20:40:43 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

One thing they could do is stop making all the rules QB friendly. Then other players would become more important

That's just not going to happen. The NFL is going to continue to foster offense and protect QBs from injury as much as they can.

Dec 25, 2021 22:10:51 GMT -6 Reignman said:

Yeah that's the first thing I thought. A QB or position based cap. A single player can't make more than X% of the cap.

The NBA's contract ceiling seems to work well for them, for what I know about it. See more here

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QB contracts/ cap hits. Dec 26, 2021 0:20:38 GMT -6 whoskmoon likes this

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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2021 0:20:38 GMT -6

Dec 25, 2021 20:07:59 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

I agree it’s a huge amount of money but we are not going to be the only team dealing with this situation and the question that needs to be asked is how is the league going to fix it?

The league isn't going to do anything to fix it.
Every team has the same amount of money to spend, how they use it is up to them.

Dec 25, 2021 20:07:59 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Some years back teams were getting into a similar situation with rookie contracts and they finally had to restructure the way rookie contracts were done

The rookie wage scale was brought about because agents were exploiting the system and forcing teams to sign high 1st round picks to ridiculous contracts which meant less money for experienced veteran players.

Dec 25, 2021 20:07:59 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Considering the salary for Kirk as an example went from 30 million in 2018 to 45 million in 2022 that’s a 50% increase in 4 years.

His salary will increase from $21M to $35M. His cap hit (salary plus bonuses) will increase from $31M to $45M.
The only thing that matters is the cap hit because that is the number that goes against the overall salary cap.

Dec 25, 2021 20:07:59 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

It’s something that we are going to deal with soon as will the league. How would you fix it? Or isn’t it really a problem?

It isn't a problem that would be on the agenda for the NFL.
As stated above, everyone has the same amount of cap space to work with, and if some GMs are dumb enough to pay guys like Cousins over his true value and then make that contract 100% guaranteed then that's not a league problem, that's a problem for Ownership of the team for green lighting a dumb contract.

whoskmoon
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QB contracts/ cap hits. Dec 26, 2021 7:42:08 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Dec 26, 2021 7:42:08 GMT -6

Dec 26, 2021 0:20:38 GMT -6 @aussie61 said:

Dec 25, 2021 20:07:59 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

I agree it’s a huge amount of money but we are not going to be the only team dealing with this situation and the question that needs to be asked is how is the league going to fix it?

The league isn't going to do anything to fix it.
Every team has the same amount of money to spend, how they use it is up to them.

Dec 25, 2021 20:07:59 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Some years back teams were getting into a similar situation with rookie contracts and they finally had to restructure the way rookie contracts were done

The rookie wage scale was brought about because agents were exploiting the system and forcing teams to sign high 1st round picks to ridiculous contracts which meant less money for experienced veteran players.

Dec 25, 2021 20:07:59 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Considering the salary for Kirk as an example went from 30 million in 2018 to 45 million in 2022 that’s a 50% increase in 4 years.

His salary will increase from $21M to $35M. His cap hit (salary plus bonuses) will increase from $31M to $45M.
The only thing that matters is the cap hit because that is the number that goes against the overall salary cap.

Dec 25, 2021 20:07:59 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

It’s something that we are going to deal with soon as will the league. How would you fix it? Or isn’t it really a problem?

It isn't a problem that would be on the agenda for the NFL.
As stated above, everyone has the same amount of cap space to work with, and if some GMs are dumb enough to pay guys like Cousins over his true value and then make that contract 100% guaranteed then that's not a league problem, that's a problem for Ownership of the team for green lighting a dumb contract.

I think you are right that the NFL doesn't have any reason to make a change. The NFL PA might though, since it would mean more money spread out for the majority of players. The only reason I don't think they push for it is because it would mean they are putting a cap on the amount a player they are representing could make.

whoskmoon
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QB contracts/ cap hits. Dec 26, 2021 7:51:41 GMT -6 mikenessfan likes this

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Post by whoskmoon on Dec 26, 2021 7:51:41 GMT -6

It is really pretty simple.

If you pay an average QB like he is elite, you will lose.

If you pay an elite QB like he is elite, you will win.

If you pay bottom 10 QB 20 million in free agency, you will lose.

If you pay a guy rookie salary level you might win, you might lose.

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QB contracts/ cap hits. Dec 26, 2021 8:16:58 GMT -6 vikingpwr and PurpleFloyd like this

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Post by snotbubbles on Dec 26, 2021 8:16:58 GMT -6

Dec 25, 2021 20:53:44 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Dec 25, 2021 20:40:43 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

One thing they could do is stop making all the rules QB friendly.

How? I'd like to hear your ideas.
h

They could stop making it a penalty when you dont defy the laws of physics. Big fast dudes expected to full stop momentum in a second as well as change direction in mid-air, smh...

PurpleFloyd
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QB contracts/ cap hits. Dec 26, 2021 8:19:04 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Dec 26, 2021 8:19:04 GMT -6

Dec 26, 2021 0:20:38 GMT -6 @aussie61 said:

Dec 25, 2021 20:07:59 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

I agree it’s a huge amount of money but we are not going to be the only team dealing with this situation and the question that needs to be asked is how is the league going to fix it?

The league isn't going to do anything to fix it.
Every team has the same amount of money to spend, how they use it is up to them.

Dec 25, 2021 20:07:59 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Some years back teams were getting into a similar situation with rookie contracts and they finally had to restructure the way rookie contracts were done

The rookie wage scale was brought about because agents were exploiting the system and forcing teams to sign high 1st round picks to ridiculous contracts which meant less money for experienced veteran players.

Dec 25, 2021 20:07:59 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Considering the salary for Kirk as an example went from 30 million in 2018 to 45 million in 2022 that’s a 50% increase in 4 years.

His salary will increase from $21M to $35M. His cap hit (salary plus bonuses) will increase from $31M to $45M.
The only thing that matters is the cap hit because that is the number that goes against the overall salary cap.

Dec 25, 2021 20:07:59 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

It’s something that we are going to deal with soon as will the league. How would you fix it? Or isn’t it really a problem?

It isn't a problem that would be on the agenda for the NFL.
As stated above, everyone has the same amount of cap space to work with, and if some GMs are dumb enough to pay guys like Cousins over his true value and then make that contract 100% guaranteed then that's not a league problem, that's a problem for Ownership of the team for green lighting a dumb contract.

Wasn’t it dumb to sign a rookie who never took a snap to a huge contract as well? And when it got out of control they had to fix it. It could have been just as easily said that GMs shouldn’t have been that dumb in that situation as well and that it what is the basis for the post.

The agents are really the ones driving this and you know how the game works:

QB “a” signs a deal making them the highest paid QB. That sets the market. Now when the agent for QB “b” negotiates their contract they use the new high water mark as the target. Everyone moves up.

The QB salary is skewed so bad now I don’t think it will be fixable by supply and demand for several reasons.

1- it would take all GMs working together to fix it by themselves and that’s collusion.

2-Trying to have 1 or two teams do it at the top of the salary range would send ripple effects down the list of QBs that would take too many cycles to correct.

3- Scarcity. There are only a few elite players but the next crop that shows potential to be elite has their agents pushing to be paid on potential.

And as I said- in a perfect world where teams are all operating on free market principles you could let the market sort itself out. But the NFL is not free market and you can’t expect to apply those principles to it.

PurpleFloyd
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QB contracts/ cap hits. Dec 26, 2021 8:21:13 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by PurpleFloyd on Dec 26, 2021 8:21:13 GMT -6

Dec 26, 2021 7:51:41 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

It is really pretty simple.

If you pay an average QB like he is elite, you will lose.

If you pay an elite QB like he is elite, you will win.

If you pay bottom 10 QB 20 million in free agency, you will lose.

If you pay a guy rookie salary level you might win, you might lose.

Would you consider Russell Wilson Elite?

Is he paid as if he is elite.

Are they winning?

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QB contracts/ cap hits. Dec 26, 2021 9:33:19 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by whoskmoon on Dec 26, 2021 9:33:19 GMT -6

Dec 26, 2021 8:21:13 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Dec 26, 2021 7:51:41 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

It is really pretty simple.

If you pay an average QB like he is elite, you will lose.

If you pay an elite QB like he is elite, you will win.

If you pay bottom 10 QB 20 million in free agency, you will lose.

If you pay a guy rookie salary level you might win, you might lose.

Would you consider Russell Wilson Elite?

Is he paid as if he is elite.

Are they winning?

Nope, you are right. For the first time in Wilson's entire career, he will miss the playoffs.

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QB contracts/ cap hits. Dec 26, 2021 10:38:46 GMT -6

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Post by Raptorman on Dec 26, 2021 10:38:46 GMT -6

Dec 26, 2021 9:33:19 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Dec 26, 2021 8:21:13 GMT -6 PurpleFloyd said:

Would you consider Russell Wilson Elite?

Is he paid as if he is elite.

Are they winning?

Nope, you are right. For the first time in Wilson's entire career, he will miss the playoffs.

It's his second time. But who's counting.

You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.