Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins?

NoresemanSam
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Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 12, 2022 11:59:12 GMT -6

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Post by NoresemanSam on Feb 12, 2022 11:59:12 GMT -6

Feb 12, 2022 7:30:32 GMT -6 cbvikingsfan said:

the way it sounds is that O'Connell likes Kirk and thinks he can win with Kirk

The question is, "win what?" If it's less than 10 games, it really won't matter.

Feb 12, 2022 7:30:32 GMT -6 cbvikingsfan said:

I would hope that Kwesi is not fool enough like our last GM to give him his totally guarantied contract.

Let's play time machine and keep all of Kirk's contract terms but have zero guarantees other than the signing bonuses. Would we be in any different position today? Of course not. The guarantees on the base salaries were rendered meaningless by him showing up, staying healthy and performing at a high level.

Feb 12, 2022 7:30:32 GMT -6 cbvikingsfan said:

Sheldon Alexander back also on the D-line

(we know who you mean)

Feb 12, 2022 7:30:32 GMT -6 cbvikingsfan said:

We draft cornerback with first round, inside linebacker with second round and we have our defense.

So simply spend a first and second round pick on D and we have two instant starters? When has that worked?

Feb 12, 2022 7:30:32 GMT -6 cbvikingsfan said:

The offense is all set, no additions needed.

Are you happy with our C and RG performances?

"There is no one most valuable Viking. There are 40 most valuable Vikings" - Joe Kapp upon refusing to accept the team MVP award

whoskmoon
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Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 12, 2022 13:04:09 GMT -6 Danchat likes this

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Post by whoskmoon on Feb 12, 2022 13:04:09 GMT -6

Feb 12, 2022 11:59:12 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

Feb 12, 2022 7:30:32 GMT -6 cbvikingsfan said:

I would hope that Kwesi is not fool enough like our last GM to give him his totally guarantied contract.

Let's play time machine and keep all of Kirk's contract terms but have zero guarantees other than the signing bonuses. Would we be in any different position today? Of course not. The guarantees on the base salaries were rendered meaningless by him showing up, staying healthy and performing at a high level.

Nope. If Cousins had signed a typical, 5 year contract that wasn't fully guaranteed in 2018 like Jimmy G did who signed that same year, even if the Vikings had decided to convert some of his salary in 2020 to signing bonus in 2021 and 22, he would likely be counting as 36 million against the cap instead of 45, and have a 26 million unguaranteed salary this year that was easily trade-able.

In fact, all 3 of the QBs who's contracts started in 2018, are making far less than Cousins and all have easy outs for their teams.

So the short, fully guaranteed nature of the contracts is 100% impacting our salary camp far greater than the typical non-guaranteed one. It isn't even debatable.

NoresemanSam Veteran Minimum Posts: 7,763 Likes: 4,753 Fan Since: Kapp was king	Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 12, 2022 13:10:27 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by NoresemanSam on Feb 12, 2022 13:10:27 GMT -6 Feb 12, 2022 13:04:09 GMT -6 whoskmoon said: It isn't even debatable. Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
	"There is no one most valuable Viking. There are 40 most valuable Vikings" - Joe Kapp upon refusing to accept the team MVP award

whoskmoon
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Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 12, 2022 13:35:39 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Feb 12, 2022 13:35:39 GMT -6

Feb 12, 2022 13:10:27 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

Feb 12, 2022 13:04:09 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

It isn't even debatable.

Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. (roflmao)

You don't agree that it would be better if we were paying our QB 27 million versus 35 million? Weird.

NoresemanSam
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Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 12, 2022 14:00:31 GMT -6

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Post by NoresemanSam on Feb 12, 2022 14:00:31 GMT -6

Feb 12, 2022 13:35:39 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

You don't agree that it would be better if we were paying our QB 27 million versus 35 million? Weird.

No. I don't agree with your "analysis." I think it makes no sense and has nothing to do with my post that you based your response on. That said, if you're convinced that you're right than just be right. Why do you need others to salute it? Perhaps you're not so convinced....

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whoskmoon
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Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 12, 2022 17:38:04 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Feb 12, 2022 17:38:04 GMT -6

Feb 12, 2022 14:00:31 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

Feb 12, 2022 13:35:39 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

You don't agree that it would be better if we were paying our QB 27 million versus 35 million? Weird.

No. I don't agree with your "analysis." I think it makes no sense and has nothing to do with my post that you based your response on. That said, if you're convinced that you're right than just be right. Why do you need others to salute it? Perhaps you're not so convinced....

Why would I disagree with a wrong Vikings take on a Vikings' message board? You know, do the exact same thing you thought you were doing:

Feb 12, 2022 11:59:12 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

Feb 12, 2022 7:30:32 GMT -6 cbvikingsfan said:

I would hope that Kwesi is not fool enough like our last GM to give him his totally guarantied contract.

Let's play time machine and keep all of Kirk's contract terms but have zero guarantees other than the signing bonuses. Would we be in any different position today? Of course not. The guarantees on the base salaries were rendered meaningless by him showing up, staying healthy and performing at a high level.

Why did you say anything if you know Kirk having 2 short, fully guaranteed contracts was the same as a 5 year contract where only the first 3 years were guaranteed? If you were convinced you were right, why did you disagree?

Last Edit: Feb 12, 2022 17:51:47 GMT -6 by whoskmoon

dauntessmallhands
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Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 12, 2022 18:35:36 GMT -6

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Post by dauntessmallhands on Feb 12, 2022 18:35:36 GMT -6

If kirk's deal wasn't guaranteed, then the only thing it would matter for would be 2022. The 10m of what he's owed from previous seasons would still be the same, but the rest would potentially be less of a hit IF we released him. So let's say he was only guaranteed 25 mil of the 35 mil. His cap hit would be 35mil this year and we wouldn't even have him.

It'll be the same if they extend him. I would say he'll get at least 70 mil guaranteed in a restructure. Probably closer to 90m Plus the 10m he's already owed. If it's a 3 year deal then you still have to pay that off over three years. 25+10 in yr one, 25+10 in yr 2. Then 30 mil of dead money if you get rid of him after that or probably an extra 10-15 mil in yr three if you do decide to keep him. Which makes his cap hit in 2024 45 mil again. At that point though, the cap is expected to be about 50m higher than it is now.

So if his contract wasn't guaranteed, the conundrum would be to let him go and take a hit of at least 30, keep him for 45 and probably restructure, or trade him. Pretty much the same boat they're in now. Which really isn't even a decision. No way they'd move on if their cap hit was 30+ if they could keep him for 45.

Danchat Content Creator Posts: 19,043 Likes: 16,640	Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 13, 2022 10:34:21 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Danchat on Feb 13, 2022 10:34:21 GMT -6 Looks like the expectation is that Kirk will not be moved… did they not receive any interest, or did they ignore the offers?

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Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 13, 2022 11:19:45 GMT -6 ukvikings likes this

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on Feb 13, 2022 11:19:45 GMT -6

Feb 13, 2022 10:34:21 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Looks like the expectation is that Kirk will not be moved… did they not receive any interest, or did they ignore the offers?

I doubt there's been much in terms of offers at this point. The market really won't start shaping up until we get a bit closer to the start of the new league year.

NoresemanSam
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Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 13, 2022 12:08:19 GMT -6

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Post by NoresemanSam on Feb 13, 2022 12:08:19 GMT -6

Feb 12, 2022 18:35:36 GMT -6 dauntessmallhands said:

So if his contract wasn't guaranteed, the conundrum would be to let him go and take a hit of at least 30, keep him for 45 and probably restructure, or trade him. Pretty much the same boat they're in now. Which really isn't even a decision. No way they'd move on if their cap hit was 30+ if they could keep him for 45.

Thank you. This was the exact point I was trying to convey. It's time to stop harping on the guaranteed aspects of Kirk's prior contracts, as they have been rendered irrelevant looking in the rear view mirror. *deadhorse*

We would have paid him the exact same money if none of it had been guaranteed.

Last Edit: Feb 13, 2022 12:08:56 GMT -6 by NoresemanSam

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Danchat
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Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 13, 2022 12:17:44 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by Danchat on Feb 13, 2022 12:17:44 GMT -6

Feb 13, 2022 11:19:45 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

Feb 13, 2022 10:34:21 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Looks like the expectation is that Kirk will not be moved… did they not receive any interest, or did they ignore the offers?

I doubt there's been much in terms of offers at this point. The market really won't start shaping up until we get a bit closer to the start of the new league year.

Note that Alex Smith and Matthew Stafford were traded before the Super Bowl was played in recent years, so it is not unusual for teams to make offers by this point. If Rodgers or Cousins were getting moved, I would expect teams would be making offers now.

NoresemanSam
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Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 13, 2022 12:50:32 GMT -6

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Post by NoresemanSam on Feb 13, 2022 12:50:32 GMT -6

Feb 13, 2022 12:17:44 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Note that Alex Smith and Matthew Stafford were traded before the Super Bowl was played in recent years, so it is not unusual for teams to make offers by this point. If Rodgers or Cousins were getting moved, I would expect teams would be making offers now.

Excellent points. Rodgers will be 39, and the GB cap situation is horrendous. Not Saints bad, but still pretty awful. Moving Aaron would solve about 40% of it.

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Danchat
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Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 13, 2022 16:36:18 GMT -6

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Post by Danchat on Feb 13, 2022 16:36:18 GMT -6

Feb 13, 2022 12:50:32 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

Feb 13, 2022 12:17:44 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Note that Alex Smith and Matthew Stafford were traded before the Super Bowl was played in recent years, so it is not unusual for teams to make offers by this point. If Rodgers or Cousins were getting moved, I would expect teams would be making offers now.

Excellent points. Rodgers will be 39, and the GB cap situation is horrendous. Not Saints bad, but still pretty awful. Moving Aaron would solve about 40% of it.

Over in the NFL talk section we've discussed the Packers' cap situation the report that came out today that it seems that the Packers want to extend him... they would save money in 2022 by doing that, but they'd be pushing even more absorbent amounts of money down the road too.

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Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 13, 2022 21:46:31 GMT -6 Danchat likes this

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Post by NoresemanSam on Feb 13, 2022 21:46:31 GMT -6

Feb 13, 2022 16:36:18 GMT -6 Danchat said:

they'd be pushing even more absorbent amounts of money down the road too.

I think you meant "exorbitant," but maybe you had it right to begin with.

Last Edit: Feb 13, 2022 21:47:05 GMT -6 by NoresemanSam

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Uncle
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Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 13, 2022 21:56:32 GMT -6 Danchat likes this

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Post by Uncle on Feb 13, 2022 21:56:32 GMT -6

Feb 13, 2022 10:34:21 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Looks like the expectation is that Kirk will not be moved… did they not receive any interest, or did they ignore the offers?

If true, it will be interesting how they deal w/ the $45m 2022 cap hit...extend and push cap dollars into future years? Add void years? Draft a 2022 QB and possibly pull a '16 Eagles and trade him to a QB-desperate team right before the season?

You've gotta have more on defense than what we have to compete at the top levels in the NFL...just not sure I see the Vikes as contenders in 2022...