Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins?

NoresemanSam
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Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 8, 2022 23:59:56 GMT -6

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Post by NoresemanSam on Feb 8, 2022 23:59:56 GMT -6

Feb 8, 2022 22:30:55 GMT -6 Brandon said:

I was looking at the pending FA for this team and the cap situation. It's pretty dire.

Peterson, Alexander and Woods are all FA.
Barr and Vigel FA.
Michael Pierce will likely need to be cut for cap savings.

Now Bynum can step in for Woods but that still means we need another Safety or two for depth. So right there on Defense we need 7 quality players, 4-5 of them starting quality. That doesn't take into account guys who are staying but could be improved upon.

On Offense, Conklin and Herndon are both FA and so are Mason Cole and Rashad Hill.

Other than Conklin and Peterson, I really don't see much concern over losing any of those. What we need is good drafting and good development, not a bunch of wasted money on overpriced FAs. Nobody can buy a good team in FA. The Rams have mortgaged their future in a way not seen since George Allen, and it just might work for them! We're a looooooooooooooong way from that. In the meantime, I think that keeping Kirk, JJ and Cook will keep us competitive on offense. We've spent tons on D in the past several years and the performance just keeps sinking. That just may be a stupid strategy, the kind that gets a GM and D-centered HC fired.

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Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 9, 2022 8:47:27 GMT -6

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Post by andhesloose28 on Feb 9, 2022 8:47:27 GMT -6

Feb 8, 2022 23:59:56 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

Feb 8, 2022 22:30:55 GMT -6 Brandon said:

I was looking at the pending FA for this team and the cap situation. It's pretty dire.

Peterson, Alexander and Woods are all FA.
Barr and Vigel FA.
Michael Pierce will likely need to be cut for cap savings.

Now Bynum can step in for Woods but that still means we need another Safety or two for depth. So right there on Defense we need 7 quality players, 4-5 of them starting quality. That doesn't take into account guys who are staying but could be improved upon.

On Offense, Conklin and Herndon are both FA and so are Mason Cole and Rashad Hill.

Other than Conklin and Peterson, I really don't see much concern over losing any of those. What we need is good drafting and good development, not a bunch of wasted money on overpriced FAs. Nobody can buy a good team in FA. The Rams have mortgaged their future in a way not seen since George Allen, and it just might work for them! We're a looooooooooooooong way from that. In the meantime, I think that keeping Kirk, JJ and Cook will keep us competitive on offense. We've spent tons on D in the past several years and the performance just keeps sinking. That just may be a stupid strategy, the kind that gets a GM and D-centered HC fired.

I mean Im not "concerned" with losing them, but the people behind them are a huge step back. Barr had a good year, was better than Kendricks. PP and Mac are a whole lot better than boyd and hand. Woods im not concerned you have Bynum, but is Harry still going to be here? Safety im really not concerned anyway its least important position. This defense is not going be good next year that is a guarentee, your looking at 2023 at the very least to even being a competitive unit.

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Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 9, 2022 9:17:14 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by Brandon on Feb 9, 2022 9:17:14 GMT -6

Feb 8, 2022 23:59:56 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

Feb 8, 2022 22:30:55 GMT -6 Brandon said:

I was looking at the pending FA for this team and the cap situation. It's pretty dire.

Peterson, Alexander and Woods are all FA.
Barr and Vigel FA.
Michael Pierce will likely need to be cut for cap savings.

Now Bynum can step in for Woods but that still means we need another Safety or two for depth. So right there on Defense we need 7 quality players, 4-5 of them starting quality. That doesn't take into account guys who are staying but could be improved upon.

On Offense, Conklin and Herndon are both FA and so are Mason Cole and Rashad Hill.

Other than Conklin and Peterson, I really don't see much concern over losing any of those. What we need is good drafting and good development, not a bunch of wasted money on overpriced FAs. Nobody can buy a good team in FA. The Rams have mortgaged their future in a way not seen since George Allen, and it just might work for them! We're a looooooooooooooong way from that. In the meantime, I think that keeping Kirk, JJ and Cook will keep us competitive on offense. We've spent tons on D in the past several years and the performance just keeps sinking. That just may be a stupid strategy, the kind that gets a GM and D-centered HC fired.

I'm not really advocating a full out free agency spending spree. That post was to highlight there's a real body problem that can't be solved easily or just through the draft or in one offseason.

Unless guys from the last two drafts really blow up en masse the bottom line is we can't really compete. We might be able to eek out a playoff spot on the strength of our offensive skill position players but it's not going to do much for sustained success.

I'm now convinced that Rick built this roster with this year as a blow up date. All these vets signed to 1-2 year deals, Cousins' big cap number. Hunter's balloon payment. That's a lot of bills coming due all at once. I think he knew Zim was running out of time and he might be able to survive to hit the big red button to tear it down.

It's time to tear off the bandaid and build it right. Better to do it 1 year too early than to wait a year too long.

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Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 11, 2022 10:12:35 GMT -6 NoresemanSam likes this

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Post by Funkytown on Feb 11, 2022 10:12:35 GMT -6

Chad Graff:

What do you do with Kirk Cousins?

There are pretty much two options for the Vikings since it’s unlikely they’ll want Cousins to play out the final year of his contract in 2022 with a $45 million cap hit. They can extend him in a move that would lower his cap hit but tie him to the franchise for longer. Or they can look to trade him, seeking at least a second-round pick (if not a first-rounder) in return. The Vikings’ return for Cousins in a trade, which we broke down here, would largely depend on how much salary cap they’d retain in the form of a bonus.

Last weekend, Cousins was back in the news because of two separate reports from ESPN that indicated O’Connell is high on Cousins and, as a result, the Vikings are likely to extend him instead of trade him. That very well could be the case.

But I would add this: Those leaks almost certainly came from the Vikings. And they have a lot of reason to profess faith in Cousins. They can’t come out and say, “Hey, we have a new regime and we’re going to start over! Who wants Cousins?” That would crush Cousins’ trade value. What is smart to say now, as they mull their decision regarding Cousins, is that they think he’s a great quarterback, signaling to the several quarterback-needy teams that it would take an impressive offer for the Vikings to even consider moving him. That’s how you draw a first-round pick for him.

There’s also a very good chance the Vikings don’t want to trade Cousins and just need him to agree to a more manageable contract. O’Connell has delivered fine offenses with Jared Goff and Matthew Stafford at quarterback. He might believe he can do the same with Cousins.

All told, I now think it’s more likely than not that Cousins stays with the Vikings. After the season ended, I guessed there was around a 60 percent chance that Cousins was traded. Now, with Kwesi Adofo-Mensah and O’Connell in place, I’d estimate there’s around a 25 percent chance Cousins is traded.

Link:

theathletic.com/3118696/2022/02/10/what-to-do-with-kirk-cousins-and-the-biggest-questions-facing-kevin-oconnell-with-the-vikings/

Last Edit: Feb 11, 2022 10:12:58 GMT -6 by Funkytown

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Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 11, 2022 11:00:22 GMT -6 ukvikings likes this

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Post by marksp18 on Feb 11, 2022 11:00:22 GMT -6

Feb 8, 2022 22:30:55 GMT -6 Brandon said:

Feb 8, 2022 21:44:19 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

Likely not, but there are (as you know) always ways to push more cap into the future.

ETA: I don't believe I posted anything suggesting that "c" was a good plan. More of a fallback plan in some scenarios. Personally, my choice today would be to just trade him and focus on the long term. That said, "long term" in the NFL is not the same as long term in the real world. My choice tomorrow might be different.

I really don't think the Vikings have a choice. It just doesn't make sense to extend Kirk.

I was looking at the pending FA for this team and the cap situation. It's pretty dire.

Peterson, Alexander and Woods are all FA.
Barr and Vigel FA.
Michael Pierce will likely need to be cut for cap savings.

Now Bynum can step in for Woods but that still means we need another Safety or two for depth. So right there on Defense we need 7 quality players, 4-5 of them starting quality. That doesn't take into account guys who are staying but could be improved upon.

On Offense, Conklin and Herndon are both FA and so are Mason Cole and Rashad Hill.

So we have no TE depth and our Oline depth is gone too, then take into account we need to replace 2 starters on the Oline. So there's another 6 quality players we need. So we need about 15 new players.

We're 15 million over the cap and need another 4.5 just to sign draft picks. So practically 20 million just to get to even and that does little to address the deficiencies mentioned above due to FA.

When you look at it like that the only solution might be a severe gutting of the roster the likes of which we haven't seen in a long time. That would necessitate a step backwards while the rebuild the base. I don't see how Kirk fits into that.

Kwesi has inherited quite the cap mess really.

Cousins is a good QB stats wise but his teams are not making the playoffs which is not his fault (I suppose). But it is not a good look for him IMHO.

If Kwesi throws his hat into the Cousins camp, it is a risk as the last two men to do that got canned.

If he trades Cousins and goes a different route he may buy some time.

But the real issue is what Mark Wilf said. He envisions this current team as still being "super competitive".

bringmethenews.com/minnesota-sports/mark-wilf-on-the-kirk-cousins-situation-its-not-a-simple-answer-on-all-this

"Once that leadership's in place, we'll discuss things like roster, coaching staffs and scouting staffs," said Wilf, noting they will let the people they hire "give us their advice and thinking before we make any of those decisions."

"I don't want to get into a full rebuild conversation. The point is we have high expectations for this football team and we believe we can be super competitive in 2022."

Based on this, I have serious doubts about the GM and/or Coach having much say about what the team will do. I think it is the Wilf's who have been meddling for a long time now.

That being said, I think the rebuild of the defense is not going to be easy. The secondary in particular. They can keep Hunter to see if he can make it through a season (he did play his first 5 seasons, 80 games, before hurting his neck/back. He recovered very well and showed that last year thru the first 7 games before tearing his pec. He'll be expensive if he goes out and gets his usual 12 plus sacks. Can they create enough cap space to sign a veteran corner or two, draft a corner, linebacker, and maybe an edge rusher that can make the defense a little better? With the return of Hunter it is likely. But will it be enough?

If they are going to keep Cousins then they have to rely on the current offensive line configuration or do NOT invest in the defensive side of the ball and try to build a juggernaut on offense. Can they make the offense a top 5 offense all the way around (not just in yards but in points too)?

If I was keeping Cousins then I want to outscore everyone while I try to build the defense back.

Kwesi has a tough decision.

If it were me, I am trading Cousins, Hunter, Thielen, Cook, and maybe Smith and Kendricks. I'd free up as much cap space as possible and get as many draft picks as I can.

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Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 11, 2022 11:16:44 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by ukvikings on Feb 11, 2022 11:16:44 GMT -6

Feb 11, 2022 11:00:22 GMT -6 marksp18 said:

Feb 8, 2022 22:30:55 GMT -6 Brandon said:

I really don't think the Vikings have a choice. It just doesn't make sense to extend Kirk.

I was looking at the pending FA for this team and the cap situation. It's pretty dire.

Peterson, Alexander and Woods are all FA.
Barr and Vigel FA.
Michael Pierce will likely need to be cut for cap savings.

Now Bynum can step in for Woods but that still means we need another Safety or two for depth. So right there on Defense we need 7 quality players, 4-5 of them starting quality. That doesn't take into account guys who are staying but could be improved upon.

On Offense, Conklin and Herndon are both FA and so are Mason Cole and Rashad Hill.

So we have no TE depth and our Oline depth is gone too, then take into account we need to replace 2 starters on the Oline. So there's another 6 quality players we need. So we need about 15 new players.

We're 15 million over the cap and need another 4.5 just to sign draft picks. So practically 20 million just to get to even and that does little to address the deficiencies mentioned above due to FA.

When you look at it like that the only solution might be a severe gutting of the roster the likes of which we haven't seen in a long time. That would necessitate a step backwards while the rebuild the base. I don't see how Kirk fits into that.

Kwesi has inherited quite the cap mess really.

Cousins is a good QB stats wise but his teams are not making the playoffs which is not his fault (I suppose). But it is not a good look for him IMHO.

If Kwesi throws his hat into the Cousins camp, it is a risk as the last two men to do that got canned.

If he trades Cousins and goes a different route he may buy some time.

But the real issue is what Mark Wilf said. He envisions this current team as still being "super competitive".

bringmethenews.com/minnesota-sports/mark-wilf-on-the-kirk-cousins-situation-its-not-a-simple-answer-on-all-this

"Once that leadership's in place, we'll discuss things like roster, coaching staffs and scouting staffs," said Wilf, noting they will let the people they hire "give us their advice and thinking before we make any of those decisions."

"I don't want to get into a full rebuild conversation. The point is we have high expectations for this football team and we believe we can be super competitive in 2022."

Based on this, I have serious doubts about the GM and/or Coach having much say about what the team will do. I think it is the Wilf's who have been meddling for a long time now.

That being said, I think the rebuild of the defense is not going to be easy. The secondary in particular. They can keep Hunter to see if he can make it through a season (he did play his first 5 seasons, 80 games, before hurting his neck/back. He recovered very well and showed that last year thru the first 7 games before tearing his pec. He'll be expensive if he goes out and gets his usual 12 plus sacks. Can they create enough cap space to sign a veteran corner or two, draft a corner, linebacker, and maybe an edge rusher that can make the defense a little better? With the return of Hunter it is likely. But will it be enough?

If they are going to keep Cousins then they have to rely on the current offensive line configuration or do NOT invest in the defensive side of the ball and try to build a juggernaut on offense. Can they make the offense a top 5 offense all the way around (not just in yards but in points too)?

If I was keeping Cousins then I want to outscore everyone while I try to build the defense back.

Kwesi has a tough decision.

If it were me, I am trading Cousins, Hunter, Thielen, Cook, and maybe Smith and Kendricks. I'd free up as much cap space as possible and get as many draft picks as I can.

You’re so right Kwesi has a tough decision. He can go the win now route and I think there will be some buy in due to the new coaching staff. Problem is for the win now strategy they have to extend Kirk and tie themselves to him. They can’t keep Kirk at his cap and expect to win now at a high level. But if they go 10-7 or below in year one of a contract extension, the apathy that developed this past season will continue. That’s the thing the franchise should want to avoid the most and will be the thing most likely to get him fired before his 4 year contract is up.

At least all this stuff is interesting for us to follow!

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Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 11, 2022 11:32:49 GMT -6

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Post by PurpleKoolaid on Feb 11, 2022 11:32:49 GMT -6

Feb 11, 2022 10:12:35 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Chad Graff:

What do you do with Kirk Cousins?

There are pretty much two options for the Vikings since it’s unlikely they’ll want Cousins to play out the final year of his contract in 2022 with a $45 million cap hit. They can extend him in a move that would lower his cap hit but tie him to the franchise for longer. Or they can look to trade him, seeking at least a second-round pick (if not a first-rounder) in return. The Vikings’ return for Cousins in a trade, which we broke down here, would largely depend on how much salary cap they’d retain in the form of a bonus.

Last weekend, Cousins was back in the news because of two separate reports from ESPN that indicated O’Connell is high on Cousins and, as a result, the Vikings are likely to extend him instead of trade him. That very well could be the case.

But I would add this: Those leaks almost certainly came from the Vikings. And they have a lot of reason to profess faith in Cousins. They can’t come out and say, “Hey, we have a new regime and we’re going to start over! Who wants Cousins?” That would crush Cousins’ trade value. What is smart to say now, as they mull their decision regarding Cousins, is that they think he’s a great quarterback, signaling to the several quarterback-needy teams that it would take an impressive offer for the Vikings to even consider moving him. That’s how you draw a first-round pick for him.

There’s also a very good chance the Vikings don’t want to trade Cousins and just need him to agree to a more manageable contract. O’Connell has delivered fine offenses with Jared Goff and Matthew Stafford at quarterback. He might believe he can do the same with Cousins.

All told, I now think it’s more likely than not that Cousins stays with the Vikings. After the season ended, I guessed there was around a 60 percent chance that Cousins was traded. Now, with Kwesi Adofo-Mensah and O’Connell in place, I’d estimate there’s around a 25 percent chance Cousins is traded.

Link:

theathletic.com/3118696/2022/02/10/what-to-do-with-kirk-cousins-and-the-biggest-questions-facing-kevin-oconnell-with-the-vikings/

I sure hope he is wrong. Cousins will never ever ever be a champion or a leader.

NoresemanSam Veteran Minimum Posts: 7,766 Likes: 4,754 Fan Since: Kapp was king	Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 11, 2022 13:05:31 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by NoresemanSam on Feb 11, 2022 13:05:31 GMT -6 Feb 11, 2022 10:12:35 GMT -6 Funkytown said: Now, with Kwesi Adofo-Mensah and O’Connell in place, I’d estimate there’s around a 25 percent chance Cousins is traded. That looks about right.
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Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 11, 2022 17:37:41 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Feb 11, 2022 17:37:41 GMT -6

It will be interesting to see what happens to all the Cousins trade talk when/if Stafford craps the bed on Sunday. Seems like the Stafford comparisons have been the main force behind writers talking about the trade, even though Cousins has already gone to a ready made championship team once and failed.

Do Vikings fans root for Stafford to succeed in hopes that some stupid GM sees parallels and gives up multiple 1sts? Or do we hope Stafford fails so people stop saying "if Stafford can do it, why can't Kirk?", and our own GM doesn't think he can do what the Rams just did?

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Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 11, 2022 18:15:04 GMT -6 snotbubbles likes this

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Post by NoresemanSam on Feb 11, 2022 18:15:04 GMT -6

Feb 11, 2022 17:37:41 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

even though Cousins has already gone to a ready made championship team

In what alternate universe did this happen? Was it the one where Spock had that beard?

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Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 11, 2022 18:43:27 GMT -6

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Post by Danchat on Feb 11, 2022 18:43:27 GMT -6

Feb 11, 2022 18:15:04 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

Feb 11, 2022 17:37:41 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

even though Cousins has already gone to a ready made championship team

In what alternate universe did this happen? Was it the one where Spock had that beard?

The alternate universe where Kirk signed with a 13-3 team to be the last piece to the puzzle... not quite a complete team as the Rams have, but still, we had a great roster that had gone 2/3 years to the playoffs with QBs who weren't on Kirk's level.

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Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 11, 2022 19:11:19 GMT -6 Danchat and ukvikings like this

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Post by whoskmoon on Feb 11, 2022 19:11:19 GMT -6

Feb 11, 2022 18:43:27 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Feb 11, 2022 18:15:04 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

In what alternate universe did this happen? Was it the one where Spock had that beard?

The alternate universe where Kirk signed with a 13-3 team to be the last piece to the puzzle... not quite a complete team as the Rams have, but still, we had a great roster that had gone 2/3 years to the playoffs with QBs who weren't on Kirk's level.

The Vikings defense was better in 2018 than the 2021 Rams D (3rd in DVOA and scoring compared to 5th and 8th), but the Rams were better at Oline. RB goes to the Vikings and WR/TE is probably pretty close.

The Rams are a more complete team than that 2018 team, but only because they were good everywhere while the Vikings were better in some places and bad on the Oline. Seeing as how arguably the worst offensive line in football is playing on Sunday, it is possible to overcome poor Oline play when you are good everywhere else.

One other thing that differentiates Stafford and Cousins' situations, Stafford's former team got significantly worse when he was replaced, something that surprised me, Cousins' old team won the same amount of games with Alex Smith and a bunch of backups as they did with Cousins the year prior.

Last Edit: Feb 11, 2022 19:12:08 GMT -6 by whoskmoon

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Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 11, 2022 19:28:54 GMT -6 snotbubbles likes this

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Post by NoresemanSam on Feb 11, 2022 19:28:54 GMT -6

Feb 11, 2022 18:43:27 GMT -6 Danchat said:

The alternate universe where Kirk signed with a 13-3 team to be the last piece to the puzzle...

Yeah, but there's regular season and there's the post season. That team that got blown out by the Eagles is hardly something I would call "ready made championship." 38 to 7, correct? That puzzle was missing a lot more than one piece.

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Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 11, 2022 20:13:18 GMT -6 via mobile GermanViking likes this

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Post by ratsalad on Feb 11, 2022 20:13:18 GMT -6

KOC likes Cousins. SKOR North reports he had "firm belief" in Cousins.

Yep, I think that's it for me. If they intend to keep trotting Cousins out on to the field I am done with Vikings football. I really don't think anyone with a brain and some objectivity believes Cousins is going to win a championship and especially not with the Vikings.

There's no situation in which Cousins will ever start and win in a Super Bowl. We've had 4 years of him. It's plainly obvious who he is, what he does, and what can and cannot do.

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Kirk to Pittsburgh? Trade Cousins? Feb 12, 2022 7:30:32 GMT -6

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Post by cbvikingsfan on Feb 12, 2022 7:30:32 GMT -6

Sorry for some to hear, but the way it sounds is that O'Connell likes Kirk and thinks he can win with Kirk so I would wager that he gets an extension. However, I would hope that Kwesi is not fool enough like our last GM to give him his totally guarantied contract. I would bet that Hunter and another on the D-line are gone as cap casualties. In the case of Hunter I don't mind it as he has not really played in the last two years. If we are really moving to a 3-4 defense I would like to see Barr back as the stand up rush linebacker and Sheldon Alexander back also on the D-line, I think both can be dominant in those roles. We draft cornerback with first round, inside linebacker with second round and we have our defense. The offense is all set, no additions needed.