Retool or Rebuild for 2022?

JABF
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Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 20, 2022 13:17:26 GMT -6 James likes this

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Post by JABF on Feb 20, 2022 13:17:26 GMT -6

Feb 17, 2022 19:32:54 GMT -6 James said:

A rebuild would be nice but this team isn’t entirely bad. We have pieces to build around. Not to mention a rebuild doesn’t guarantee future success. We have a decent roster already. This roster easily could’ve been a playoff team had some games gone the other way. All we needed was a coach to play to the players strength. Hopefully KOC can get it done.

+1
I think there is a lot of truth there. KAM & KOC will craft a multi-year plan (at least a 3 year plan) to get the Vikings from where they are at, to being a SB team. Nuking the roster and rebuilding seems pretty crazy to me. But the team is not in a win-now situation either. It is somewhere between those two extremes. Once KAM & KOC have what they believe is a solid plan then they'll inventory the roster that they have now and begin upgrading players - doing what they can, when they can - within the resources they have (cap and draft). It's not a win-now 2022 super bowl year, but it's also not a situation to nuke the roster and unnecessarily set the team back years.  Teams that cycle endlessly through rebuilds and coaching changes are the crappy teams in the NFL.

I will be interested to see how the new regime handles the QB position. I don't think there is an easy answer there.

I do picture KAM & KOC as being thoughtful plan-full people who can build on the good pieces that are already in place. It's not like the team will magically be "fixed" in 2022 though. I think ya give these two a chance to build their vision here.

Last Edit: Feb 20, 2022 18:40:15 GMT -6 by JABF

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PurpleKoolaid
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Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 20, 2022 20:08:14 GMT -6

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Post by PurpleKoolaid on Feb 20, 2022 20:08:14 GMT -6

I am afraid the Wilf's dug themselves a hole, claiming "they are super confident" they are going to a playoff team right from the get go. Its going to be at least 1 bad year, and probably 2, before the Vikes are playoff ready. And if we keep Kirk, and give him more millions, the Wilf's will become the champions of stupidity. Kirk has do nothing his entire career when something is on the line.

andhesloose28
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Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 22, 2022 9:30:23 GMT -6 PurpleKoolaid likes this

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Post by andhesloose28 on Feb 22, 2022 9:30:23 GMT -6

Feb 20, 2022 20:08:14 GMT -6 PurpleKoolaid said:

I am afraid the Wilf's dug themselves a hole, claiming "they are super confident" they are going to a playoff team right from the get go. Its going to be at least 1 bad year, and probably 2, before the Vikes are playoff ready. And if we keep Kirk, and give him more millions, the Wilf's will become the champions of stupidity. Kirk has do nothing his entire career when something is on the line.

I think the Wilfs will let Kwesi do what he needs and sees fit. I dont think they are all in on Kirk. They would have kept Rick if that was the case. By them getting rid of Rick that proved to me they know things havent gone right the last few years and there needs to be a new direction. I think Kwesi and Kevin will get the final say on Kirk.

It scares me everyday to think whats going to happen, cause this is a huge time in the Vikings franchise. Possible wrong move with Kirk, could set us back another 3 years at least. I just dont see how you can extend him doesnt make sense to me and leaves yourself with little room for error and you have to win a super bowl within 3 years starting this year if you make that move. Build your own team Kwesi and Kevin, that is my advice for the Vikings sake and your own careers sake.

oofda22 Bench Warmer Posts: 352 Likes: 137	Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 22, 2022 14:57:53 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by oofda22 on Feb 22, 2022 14:57:53 GMT -6 I still think the front office uses the void years in Hunter's contract to reduce his cap hits over the next two seasons (but gives us like 4 & 5 mill dead caps in 24 & 25)
	If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

NoresemanSam
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Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 22, 2022 23:50:20 GMT -6

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Post by NoresemanSam on Feb 22, 2022 23:50:20 GMT -6

Feb 22, 2022 14:57:53 GMT -6 oofda22 said:

I still think the front office uses the void years in Hunter's contract to reduce his cap hits over the next two seasons (but gives us like 4 & 5 mill dead caps in 24 & 25)

Why? We can save $15M in cap by just cutting him tomorrow. Dead cap is meaningless. It's just money that we've already spent (wasted?).

Dump him and Pierce and we're back in the black.

Last Edit: Feb 22, 2022 23:52:02 GMT -6 by NoresemanSam

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Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 23, 2022 5:31:30 GMT -6 NoresemanSam likes this

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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2022 5:31:30 GMT -6

Feb 22, 2022 14:57:53 GMT -6 oofda22 said:

I still think the front office uses the void years in Hunter's contract to reduce his cap hits over the next two seasons (but gives us like 4 & 5 mill dead caps in 24 & 25)

That's not really possible. His base salary for 2022 is already at the league minimum so they can't do a restructure on that, and his 2023 base salary is $4,900,000 so there's not much to be saved there either.
They could spread out the $18m roster bonus, but then it becomes fully guaranteed and that just kicks money down the road.

Last Edit: Feb 23, 2022 5:39:23 GMT -6 by Deleted

oofda22
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Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 23, 2022 8:37:41 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by oofda22 on Feb 23, 2022 8:37:41 GMT -6

Feb 23, 2022 5:31:30 GMT -6 @aussie61 said:

Feb 22, 2022 14:57:53 GMT -6 oofda22 said:

I still think the front office uses the void years in Hunter's contract to reduce his cap hits over the next two seasons (but gives us like 4 & 5 mill dead caps in 24 & 25)

That's not really possible. His base salary for 2022 is already at the league minimum so they can't do a restructure on that, and his 2023 base salary is $4,900,000 so there's not much to be saved there either.
They could spread out the $18m roster bonus, but then it becomes fully guaranteed and that just kicks money down the road.

It's an team option that's in his current contract that converts his roster bonus to a signing bonus and thusly spreads that 18MM out over the next 4 years (including the void years). That doesn't affect his base salary.

If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

oofda22
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Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 23, 2022 8:39:26 GMT -6 via mobile oofda22 likes this

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Post by oofda22 on Feb 23, 2022 8:39:26 GMT -6

Feb 22, 2022 23:50:20 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

Feb 22, 2022 14:57:53 GMT -6 oofda22 said:

I still think the front office uses the void years in Hunter's contract to reduce his cap hits over the next two seasons (but gives us like 4 & 5 mill dead caps in 24 & 25)

Why? We can save $15M in cap by just cutting him tomorrow. Dead cap is meaningless. It's just money that we've already spent (wasted?).

Dump him and Pierce and we're back in the black.

The owners and front office feel differently if one believes what they say.

If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

MidwinterViking
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Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 23, 2022 9:09:38 GMT -6 via mobile Funkytown and oofda22 like this

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Post by MidwinterViking on Feb 23, 2022 9:09:38 GMT -6

Feb 22, 2022 23:50:20 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

Feb 22, 2022 14:57:53 GMT -6 oofda22 said:

I still think the front office uses the void years in Hunter's contract to reduce his cap hits over the next two seasons (but gives us like 4 & 5 mill dead caps in 24 & 25)

Why? We can save $15M in cap by just cutting him tomorrow. Dead cap is meaningless. It's just money that we've already spent (wasted?).

Dump him and Pierce and we're back in the black.

Don't miss the forest through the trees.

There is one thing that is even better than having lots of cap space. That is having elite players like Hunter to spend your cap space on.

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Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 23, 2022 12:23:15 GMT -6

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Post by NoresemanSam on Feb 23, 2022 12:23:15 GMT -6

Feb 23, 2022 9:09:38 GMT -6 MidwinterViking said:

That is having elite players like Hunter to spend your cap space on.

An elite player who is always injured is kind of like a fine European automobile that's always in the shop. Negotiate a pay cut (no, not just the commonly used, and almost always misunderstood "restructure") or cut him and offer him a one year "prove it" deal. We have less need for a 4-3 end in a 3-4 D.

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FSUVike
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Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 23, 2022 12:28:45 GMT -6 via mobile MidwinterViking likes this

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Post by FSUVike on Feb 23, 2022 12:28:45 GMT -6

Feb 23, 2022 12:23:15 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

Feb 23, 2022 9:09:38 GMT -6 MidwinterViking said:

That is having elite players like Hunter to spend your cap space on.

An elite player who is always injured is kind of like a fine European automobile that's always in the shop. Negotiate a pay cut (no, not just the commonly used, and almost always misunderstood "restructure") or cut him and offer him a one year "prove it" deal. We have less need for a 4-3 end in a 3-4 D.

Two seasons. That's less seasons than Joey Bosa has missed time in with the Chargers. And Hunter can absolutely play a Rush OLB spot in a 3-4 look.

Danchat
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Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 23, 2022 13:09:23 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by Danchat on Feb 23, 2022 13:09:23 GMT -6

Feb 23, 2022 12:23:15 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

Feb 23, 2022 9:09:38 GMT -6 MidwinterViking said:

That is having elite players like Hunter to spend your cap space on.

An elite player who is always injured is kind of like a fine European automobile that's always in the shop. Negotiate a pay cut (no, not just the commonly used, and almost always misunderstood "restructure") or cut him and offer him a one year "prove it" deal. We have less need for a 4-3 end in a 3-4 D.

Hunter is asking for a trade if you try to dock his pay. He knows he’d get paid well if he ever hit the market, so I see no incentive for him to take that.

NoresemanSam Veteran Minimum Posts: 7,758 Likes: 4,749 Fan Since: Kapp was king	Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 23, 2022 13:11:16 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by NoresemanSam on Feb 23, 2022 13:11:16 GMT -6 Feb 23, 2022 12:28:45 GMT -6 FSUVike said: And Hunter can absolutely play a Rush OLB spot in a 3-4 look. I'm sure he can rush. How can he cover?
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NoresemanSam
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Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 23, 2022 13:13:51 GMT -6

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Post by NoresemanSam on Feb 23, 2022 13:13:51 GMT -6

Feb 23, 2022 13:09:23 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Feb 23, 2022 12:23:15 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

An elite player who is always injured is kind of like a fine European automobile that's always in the shop. Negotiate a pay cut (no, not just the commonly used, and almost always misunderstood "restructure") or cut him and offer him a one year "prove it" deal. We have less need for a 4-3 end in a 3-4 D.

Hunter is asking for a trade if you try to dock his pay. He knows he’d get paid well if he ever hit the market, so I see no incentive for him to take that.

I agree, but it doesn't hurt to throw a lowball out there. Same as those who want Kirk to take a paycut. It would be nice if we had the cap room to keep everybody, but the only way to do that is to (again) mortgage the future.

Last Edit: Feb 23, 2022 13:14:17 GMT -6 by NoresemanSam

"There is no one most valuable Viking. There are 40 most valuable Vikings" - Joe Kapp upon refusing to accept the team MVP award

oofda22
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Retool or Rebuild for 2022? Feb 23, 2022 13:32:12 GMT -6 via mobile Danchat and MidwinterViking like this