Coaching/GM Isn't Always The Issue

TheOGPhatThor77
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Coaching/GM Isn't Always The Issue Sept 13, 2021 20:35:49 GMT -6 Funkytown and andhesloose28 like this

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Post by TheOGPhatThor77 on Sept 13, 2021 20:35:49 GMT -6

Sept 12, 2021 20:19:04 GMT -6 Uncle said:

...you're right, Zimmer isn't playing on the field...but isn't one of the jobs of the coaching staff to "coach" players not to commit penalties, make mistakes and put the team in the best overall position to win?

Also, isn't Zimmer a coach that preaches disciplined football, where everybody does their assignments correctly?

This is Year 8 and if you're playing the 'ol "the coach doesn't make the plays on the field" card, it's time to fold 'em....

...as far as Rick goes, he's the reason we're in Year 8 and making excuses with Zimmer in the first place...

Yeah....the coaches do teach players not to jump offsides, false start, hold, ect. But so do their parents when they were in 5th grade playing with friends, and their middle school coaches, and high school coaches, and college coaches. They've been preached not to false start since probably the first practice they ever had. Hence the reason I say that is a PLAYER issue, not on the coach. Sometimes coaches can't be blamed for the mistakes of their players. There is a reason there are things called "missed assignments" in football, which means they did it improperly compared to the way the COACH wants it done. Simple as that.

I also stated that I'm not a fan of the way Zimmer has handled things recently and he is on my hot seat if he doesn't turn things around this year. So making the "the coach doesn't make the plays on the field" card you're stating I'm making is just plainly inaccurate. I too am skeptical of Zimmer. But to blame him on penalities is inaccurate and you don't understand the inner workings of football if you blame a coach for a player false starting....it's football. These guys have mostly been playing it since before they were teenagers.

And as far as Rick goes, he is also the reason we've been a relevant football team year in and year out and have the CHANCE to make a run. If you want to see bad GM's go look at Detroit, New York, Miami for 30 years, the Browns until Stefanski was the coach, I can go on and on.

Zimmer is much more our issue than Rick is. But I'll go out and say our offensive line is a bigger problem than all of it.

TheOGPhatThor77
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Coaching/GM Isn't Always The Issue Sept 13, 2021 21:38:55 GMT -6 Funkytown and Purple Pain like this

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Post by TheOGPhatThor77 on Sept 13, 2021 21:38:55 GMT -6

Sept 12, 2021 20:38:29 GMT -6 mikenessfan said:

Sept 12, 2021 20:01:23 GMT -6 TheOGPhatThor77 said:

A lot of fans I see today have been blaming the coaching and somehow Rick for today's performance. And as an ex higher level football player, I understand the effects coaching has on a team.

But today's biggest issue BY FAR was the penalites and you CANNOT blame that on the coaches. False starts are on the players, holding is on the players, two illegal formations for our tackles lining too far back before the play, IS ON THE PLAYERS.

The offensive line lost us the game today. A couple of missed assignments by the corners lost us the game today. Not being able to stop the run and tackle, lost us the game today. Call me crazy but Zimmer isn't out there making tackles in the 4th quarter. These are faults by the players and they need to held accountable for that. Not just Zimmer.

To be fair, not a fan of the way Zim coached today and he is on the hot seat for me. But today's loss wasn't on him alone.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for Rick.....how can anyone blame him for today as well? I keep seeing this depth argument...but I fail to remember a time when we were using all of our depth during the game today. Our starters got beat, or, they beat themselves mostly.

You can blame Rick all you want for not having depth and apparently missing on draft picks. But while you're all bi**hing about Rick and his missed picks, I never heard the praises for him picking Danielle Hunter in the 3rd, Stefon Diggs in the 5th, Dalvin Cook in the 2nd, Justin Jefferson in the 1st, Irv Smith Jr in the 2nd, Anthony Barr in the 1st, Eric Kendricks in the 2nd, Harrison Smith in the 1st, Teddy Bridgewater in the 1st, Everson Griffen in the 4th (I believe), KJ Osborn in the 5th, Alexander Mattison in the 3rd, Ifeadi Odinigbo in the 7th, Mackenzie Alexander in the 2nd, Stephen Weatherly and Jayron Kearse in the 7th, Trae Waynes in the 1st, Sharrif Floyd in the 1st, Percy Harvin in the 1st, Phil Loadholt in the 2nd, Adrian Peterson in the 1st, Sidney Rice in the 2nd, John Sullivan in the 6th, Ray Edwards in the 4th.....I know some of these are going back to when he was co-GM and some of these players obviously aren't still on the team but these are a LOT of ABSOLUTE hits in the draft. We get all these successes, and yeah we also have a Troy Williamson, Garrett Bradbury(meh), Mike Hughes (injury), Jeff Gladney (legal issue), Laquon Treadwell, Matt Kalil (injury/performance drop off), Christian Ponder, Chris Cook and Toby Gerhart picks that were either huge busts, had legal issues, suffered injuries changing who they were and didn't work out. But all in all, I say Rick is a Top 10, potentially Top 6 GM in the NFL.

Being a good gm isn’t about drafting only. I mean he has missed much more than he has hit. But again out the draft aside, how about his inability to find a franchise qb? How about his inability to put together a competent oline for so long? What about wasting so many high round (premium) picks on corners that either are average at best to mostly below average or backups? How about the fact he shells out really high priced contracts to guys who don’t deserve them or come close to the money they are making (sans effecting depth/other signings)? I mean I can keep going if you want but I really don’t want to make this a long conversation as I feel like this is an excercise many have done on this topic on here many times. You are kidding yourself if you think he is a top 10 gm overall in all aspects of his job. The problem is our owners don’t know a lot about football and don’t have a long football network with front office guys/scouts. So therefore they would struggle identifying someone who is better to take over. That’s the real problem. Btw I do like the wilfs, I just think this is a weakness of theirs.

I agree, being a good GM is much more than just drafting. It's FA signings, contract extensions, coach hirings and overall operations decisions outside of straight football. I fail to see where he has "missed more than he has hit". Has he missed? Of course, I would challange you to find a GM who hasn't made mistakes. I'm saying he makes less mistakes the your average GM and has also been lights out on finding great talent late. But here we go with points again....

1.) Inability to find a franchise QB.
      - First arguably the hardest position to find a FRANCHISE QB for any franchise unless you draft a Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Deshaun Watson, Tom Brady, Lamar Jackson, Kyler Murray, etc type player who was drafted onto the team, developed and turned into a Franchise QB during the time of a rookie contract.
      - In order to obtain those types of QB's you have to get a top 5 draft pick (mostly, unless you hit a late round draft pick like a Wilson, Brady, Lamar type player) which we haven't picked inside the top 10 but only a few times and I once again encourage you to look at the QB's available during those years. Not great QB classes. So you are in favor of us absolutely tanking and losing almost every game or sacrificing the next 3-4 years of 1st round picks in order to trade up for one of those players. Not as easy as it looks.

2.) Inability to put together an offensive line.
      - Been over this a lot, I don't like what he did with the offensive line for quite awhile (basically since 2009) but he has recently invested a LOT of draft picks into fixing the issue but has also missed out on some solid FA options. But if your GM constructs a consistent top 10 defense in general, are you going to fire him for building a 15th-25th rated OL? No. Just remember all these position improvements you're demanding also requires a decrease in talent at other positions in return. So measure which one you'd like, he measured defense and offensive skill positions over offensive line. Love it or hate it, but he structured the team the way he did and you can't say this team doesn't have talent to win a bunch of games.

3.) Wasting SO many high round (premium) picks on corners that are average at best or backups....
      - Not sure where this judgement comes from exactly....lets see.....
      - 2020 Secondary Draft picks = 1st: Jeff Gladney (arrested for domestic violence, but was far from "backup" quality, more above average) 3rd: Cam Dantzler (after year 1 was the 2nd highest rated rookie CB by PFF of his draft class) 5th: Harrison Hand (current 4th string CB as a 5th round pick)
      - 2019 Secondary Draft picks = 7th: Kris Boyd (turned into solid player for us as a 7th round pick at CB....and it's a 7th round pick who isn't exected to sniff a NFL field)
      - 2018 Secondary Draft picks = 1st: Mike Hughes (broke his damn neck but before that was looking like a good starting CB for us, now currently going to start for the Super Bowl winning Chiefs team....)
      - 2017 Secondary Draft picks = none
      - 2016 Secondary Draft picks = 2nd: Mackenzie Alexander (current starting nickle CB for us, perhaps #2 CB for us) 7th: Jayron Kearse (7th round investment in a safety who is still playing today and played well for us)
      - 2015 Secondary Draft picks = 1st: Trae Waynes (current #1 CB for the Bengals when returning from injury, and would have been resigned by Minnesota if he didn't get a whole bank thrown at him by Cincy)
      - 2014 Secondary Draft picks = 2 6th round picks: Antone Exum and Kendall James (not significant draft picks)
      - 2013 Secondary Draft picks = 1st: Xavier Rhodes (former All-Pro shutdown CB for us for years, then fell off significantly the last 2-3 years)
      - 2012 Secondary Draft picks = 1st: Harrison Smith (arguably a Hall of Fame safety for us going into his 10th season) 3rd: Josh Robinson (I'll give you a bust there, but also it's a 3rd round pick so average starter at best is what you expect) 5th: Robert Blanton (started for us for several years, average at best, but also a 5th round pick)
      - 2011 Secondary Draft picks = 5th: Brandon Burton (irrelevant) 6th: Mistral Raymond (irrelevant)
      - 2010 Secondary Draft picks = 2nd: Chris Cook (started several years, not a great 2nd round pick)

So besides Jeff Gladney, who Rick couldn't have known he would beat his GF, can't blame Rick there. Maybe Cam Dantzler after this offseason, but I'd be curious to see what happens there considering like I said he was the 2nd best graded rookie CB of his entire draft class last year. I'd say that's a good 3rd round pick SO FAR, could turn bad depending on what happens this year. Mike Hughes you could list as a bust probably, but he broke his neck and looked like a quality player for us before his back to back injuries so once again I give Rick a pass on that. Is it unfortunate? Of course, but you can't judge the pick based off an injury. Where I was pissed was the like 6th round pick we got for him in return was super devalued. And Chris Cook in 2010?....but that's 2 big busts in Gladney and Hughes which were a result of a legal situation and a massive injury. One TBD bust player in Dantzler and Chris Cook 10 years+ ago. Yet forget to mention the signings of Harrison Hand (5th round), Kris Boyd (7th round), Mackenzie Alexander (2nd round), Trae Waynes (1st round), Xavier Rhodes (1st round), Harrison Smith (1st round). I'd say his bust to great comparison leans much more towards great than bust in the secondary.

4.) This overpaying people on contracts thing is interesting as well on every single contract besides Kirk Cousins, and even then he's in the market for his ability (making $33M this year, cap hit is different than earned money). But lets see current extensions over the last few years.....
      - Brian O'Neill (the best drafted RT we've had in a long time, paying him to stay to anchor a terrible offensive line and a solid building block for that line and great leader and current captain....but slight overpay)
      - Harrison Smith (potential HOF safety, team captain and the heart of our defense and was underpaid for years)
      - Danielle Hunter (absolute monster at DE, restructured his contract to protect us against if his injury limits his game compared to previous performances)
      - Eric Kendricks (All-Pro top-3 MLB in the NFL, currently paid like the 10th highest MLB in football)
      - Anthony Barr (Team captain, All-Pro/Pro-Bowl OLB who has called our defense since he came into the league and is more valuable to our team than people give him credit for i.e. look at defense last year and currently this year without him)
      - Dalvin Cook (Top-3 arguably best RB in football, paid as the 4th highest RB in football I believe on current contract, the heart of our offense and team captain)
      - Adam Theilen (home-grown, fan favorite, WR who had 14 TD's last season and almost 1,000 yards while being second fiddle to JJ all season and currently paid cheaper than his value)
      - Xavier Rhodes (his extension was during the prime of his career when he was considered the #1 CB in football)

Now lets do FA signings over the last few years.....
      - Dalvin Tomlinson (I was a tad confused with this signing with Pierce on the roster, but trying to form the new Williams Wall is ok with me and he's only making $10M/year for 2 years)
      - Michael Pierce (3 year contract, started this year, and after game one paying him $9M/year for 3 years is a steal)
      - Patrick Peterson (was hands down our best CB week 1 this year, making $8M for 1 year w/ $2M in incentives, so far that's a steal and a half considering your top CB's are making almost $20M/year now)
      - Xavier Woods (current starting S, who looked very good this week and only paying him like $4M per year)
      - Sheldon Richardson (signed him twice, and currently only paying him like $4M/year for 1 year)
      - and other than Kirk's contract was overpaid and he's underperformed but I respect Rick for taking the chance at a franchise QB on a team that was built to win now, it was more the re-signing that angered me rather than the OG signing.

5.) Rick is a Top 10 GM in this league, the Wilfs are Top 10 owners in this league. And I honestly don't care if the owners know football really well or not, that's why they have GM's and other staff members to handle that. Believe it or not, what we have is a great roster and staff, just need to put it all together. This year will show a lot. But your response to me was quite misguided....

James
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Coaching/GM Isn't Always The Issue Sept 13, 2021 22:01:13 GMT -6 Reignman likes this

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Post by James on Sept 13, 2021 22:01:13 GMT -6

The only thing I will say is that poor performances are not strictly on the coaching staff. This loss is definitely a collective effort. However a big part of it goes on coaching. Especially when some of those players that you just mentioned are having better careers on other teams. Zimmer has been here for some years now, Spielman even longer. Teams that are coached probably don't make too many mistakes. And if there's players that aren't playing well after a while, they're gone. But due to some of these contracts, it's hard to get rid of some players sooner than we need to. Or because there's no "next man up" mentality with this team, we're usually stuck with whose ever starting no matter how bad because the backups aren't much better, that's not good coaching.

Yes coaches can't control how well or bad players play but they control who is out there on the field. They have all year, just like other teams to assemble a roster and since Zimmer has been here, the O-Line has been terrible. The QB position has been shaky at best. And his scheme which worked early on his first few year here, teams have adjusted schematically where he has not. We still have this run first mentality and check down when we do pass. This team is a reflection of the men who run it.

whoskmoon
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Coaching/GM Isn't Always The Issue Sept 14, 2021 6:19:55 GMT -6 Oracle Bone Diviner likes this

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Post by whoskmoon on Sept 14, 2021 6:19:55 GMT -6

Sept 13, 2021 21:38:55 GMT -6 TheOGPhatThor77 said:

5.) Rick is a Top 10 GM in this league, the Wilfs are Top 10 owners in this league. And I honestly don't care if the owners know football really well or not, that's why they have GM's and other staff members to handle that. Believe it or not, what we have is a great roster and staff, just need to put it all together. This year will show a lot. But your response to me was quite misguided....

If Rick were the 10th best GM, consistently 10th, with 9 GMs putting together better teams each year, how would we ever win a SB?

I think 10th isn't out of the realm of possibility for Rick. There are worse GMs out there who have had less success than Rick has. 10th gets you a playoff game every other season though and just isn't good enough. Not even close.

Last Edit: Sept 14, 2021 6:20:44 GMT -6 by whoskmoon

Oracle Bone Diviner
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Coaching/GM Isn't Always The Issue Sept 14, 2021 6:56:17 GMT -6

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Post by Oracle Bone Diviner on Sept 14, 2021 6:56:17 GMT -6

Sept 12, 2021 20:01:23 GMT -6 TheOGPhatThor77 said:

A lot of fans I see today have been blaming the coaching and somehow Rick for today's performance. And as an ex higher level football player, I understand the effects coaching has on a team.

But today's biggest issue BY FAR was the penalites and you CANNOT blame that on the coaches. False starts are on the players, holding is on the players, two illegal formations for our tackles lining too far back before the play, IS ON THE PLAYERS.

The offensive line lost us the game today. A couple of missed assignments by the corners lost us the game today. Not being able to stop the run and tackle, lost us the game today. Call me crazy but Zimmer isn't out there making tackles in the 4th quarter. These are faults by the players and they need to held accountable for that. Not just Zimmer.

To be fair, not a fan of the way Zim coached today and he is on the hot seat for me. But today's loss wasn't on him alone.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for Rick.....how can anyone blame him for today as well? I keep seeing this depth argument...but I fail to remember a time when we were using all of our depth during the game today. Our starters got beat, or, they beat themselves mostly.

You can blame Rick all you want for not having depth and apparently missing on draft picks. But while you're all bi**hing about Rick and his missed picks, I never heard the praises for him picking Danielle Hunter in the 3rd, Stefon Diggs in the 5th, Dalvin Cook in the 2nd, Justin Jefferson in the 1st, Irv Smith Jr in the 2nd, Anthony Barr in the 1st, Eric Kendricks in the 2nd, Harrison Smith in the 1st, Teddy Bridgewater in the 1st, Everson Griffen in the 4th (I believe), KJ Osborn in the 5th, Alexander Mattison in the 3rd, Ifeadi Odinigbo in the 7th, Mackenzie Alexander in the 2nd, Stephen Weatherly and Jayron Kearse in the 7th, Trae Waynes in the 1st, Sharrif Floyd in the 1st, Percy Harvin in the 1st, Phil Loadholt in the 2nd, Adrian Peterson in the 1st, Sidney Rice in the 2nd, John Sullivan in the 6th, Ray Edwards in the 4th.....I know some of these are going back to when he was co-GM and some of these players obviously aren't still on the team but these are a LOT of ABSOLUTE hits in the draft. We get all these successes, and yeah we also have a Troy Williamson, Garrett Bradbury(meh), Mike Hughes (injury), Jeff Gladney (legal issue), Laquon Treadwell, Matt Kalil (injury/performance drop off), Christian Ponder, Chris Cook and Toby Gerhart picks that were either huge busts, had legal issues, suffered injuries changing who they were and didn't work out. But all in all, I say Rick is a Top 10, potentially Top 6 GM in the NFL.

I think we may have found our next Head Coach.

There's a ringing in my ear and I think it's the Call of the Wild

itinerant, noun; a person who works and wanders.

Deleted Ghosted Member Posts: 0 Likes:	Coaching/GM Isn't Always The Issue Sept 14, 2021 7:04:34 GMT -6 Reignman, Longship, and 1 more like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2021 7:04:34 GMT -6 Sept 14, 2021 6:56:17 GMT -6 Oracle Bone Diviner said: I think we may have found our next Head Coach. You mean Zims cousin

andhesloose28 Franchise Player Posts: 3,034 Likes: 2,156	Coaching/GM Isn't Always The Issue Sept 14, 2021 7:25:15 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by andhesloose28 on Sept 14, 2021 7:25:15 GMT -6 This is was said before the Vikings game @bengals..Yikes

Oracle Bone Diviner Moderator Posts: 14,706 Likes: 10,608 Fan Since: last century	Coaching/GM Isn't Always The Issue Sept 14, 2021 7:26:31 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Oracle Bone Diviner on Sept 14, 2021 7:26:31 GMT -6 Sept 14, 2021 7:04:34 GMT -6 @aussie61 said: Sept 14, 2021 6:56:17 GMT -6 Oracle Bone Diviner said: I think we may have found our next Head Coach. You mean Zims cousin Close enough!
	There's a ringing in my ear and I think it's the Call of the Wild itinerant, noun; a person who works and wanders.

comet52
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Coaching/GM Isn't Always The Issue Sept 14, 2021 7:31:18 GMT -6 via mobile vikingbill likes this

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Post by comet52 on Sept 14, 2021 7:31:18 GMT -6

Sept 14, 2021 7:26:31 GMT -6 Oracle Bone Diviner said:

Sept 14, 2021 7:04:34 GMT -6 @aussie61 said:

You mean Zims cousin *skeptic*

Close enough!

I thought it was the Vikings pr honcho--the only thing he didn't do in those book-length apologies for the Rick and Mike show was try to move some season ticket packages.

I'm here for entertainment purposes only

whoskmoon
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Coaching/GM Isn't Always The Issue Sept 14, 2021 7:40:31 GMT -6 Purple Pain likes this

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Post by whoskmoon on Sept 14, 2021 7:40:31 GMT -6

Sept 14, 2021 7:31:18 GMT -6 comet52 said:

Sept 14, 2021 7:26:31 GMT -6 Oracle Bone Diviner said:

Close enough!

I thought it was the Vikings pr honcho--the only thing he didn't do in those book-length apologies for the Rick and Mike show was try to move some season ticket packages.

He makes thoughtful arguments backed up with facts and thoughtful opinions. If you have an issue with the points he makes, try coming up with some arguments against those points instead of just claiming he works for the Vikings.

stout93
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Coaching/GM Isn't Always The Issue Sept 14, 2021 7:52:06 GMT -6 vikingbill likes this

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Post by stout93 on Sept 14, 2021 7:52:06 GMT -6

I'm sure they have, but can someone tell me when is the last time the Ravens have missed on a 1st rounder? I mean, it seems even going back to the early days of GM Ozzie they just picked football players who had big time success in college.

Puts Spielman 1st rounders to shame..

comet52
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Coaching/GM Isn't Always The Issue Sept 14, 2021 7:56:01 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by comet52 on Sept 14, 2021 7:56:01 GMT -6

Sept 14, 2021 7:40:31 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Sept 14, 2021 7:31:18 GMT -6 comet52 said:

I thought it was the Vikings pr honcho--the only thing he didn't do in those book-length apologies for the Rick and Mike show was try to move some season ticket packages.

He makes thoughtful arguments backed up with facts and thoughtful opinions. If you have an issue with the points he makes, try coming up with some arguments against those points instead of just claiming he works for the Vikings.

What "points" are you referring to? Did the guy hire you to take shots at other posters on his behalf? He can stand up for himself without his daddy running to the rescue.

Oh and piss off while you're at it.

I'm here for entertainment purposes only

whoskmoon
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Coaching/GM Isn't Always The Issue Sept 14, 2021 8:08:03 GMT -6 Funkytown, Purple Pain, and 1 more like this

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Post by whoskmoon on Sept 14, 2021 8:08:03 GMT -6

Sept 14, 2021 7:56:01 GMT -6 comet52 said:

Sept 14, 2021 7:40:31 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

He makes thoughtful arguments backed up with facts and thoughtful opinions. If you have an issue with the points he makes, try coming up with some arguments against those points instead of just claiming he works for the Vikings.

What "points" are you referring to? Did the guy hire you to take shots at other posters on his behalf? He can stand up for himself without his daddy running to the rescue.

Oh and piss off while you're at it.

And to think I rewrote my post to be nicer than I originally was going to be. He has added more in his two posts in this thread than you have in my entire time on this board. That is coming from someone who disagrees with the vast majority of what he wrote. Which is fine, he has his opinions, I have mine and debating them is why most post here.

People can be positive about their favorite team and not be related to Zimmer or Rick. People can be negative about their favorite team and not be "haters". This labeling of fans is childish and adds nothing.

comet52
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Coaching/GM Isn't Always The Issue Sept 14, 2021 9:00:04 GMT -6

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Post by comet52 on Sept 14, 2021 9:00:04 GMT -6

Sept 14, 2021 8:08:03 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Sept 14, 2021 7:56:01 GMT -6 comet52 said:

What "points" are you referring to? Did the guy hire you to take shots at other posters on his behalf? He can stand up for himself without his daddy running to the rescue.

Oh and piss off while you're at it.

And to think I rewrote my post to be nicer than I originally was going to be. He has added more in his two posts in this thread than you have in my entire time on this board. That is coming from someone who disagrees with the vast majority of what he wrote. Which is fine, he has his opinions, I have mine and debating them is why most post here.

People can be positive about their favorite team and not be related to Zimmer or Rick. People can be negative about their favorite team and not be "haters". This labeling of fans is childish and adds nothing.

I'm here to enjoy myself and entertain myself and others. And make friends with those who are friendly. Not to answer to you. And I think I'm succeeding since I have more likes than posts - find someone else around here in that category. 50+ years suffering the Vikings misfortunes, I'll call it like I see it regardless of who likes that or doesn't.

You don't like my stuff, don't read it. Use the ignore feature. As far as I can tell you're a continual axe-grinder and not very interesting to engage with.. humorless for the most part. I'll give you that you're intelligent about football. Maybe there's a side of you that we don't know.

Meantime you must have something better to do with your valuable time than fight some other guy's imagined battles for him.

Have a nice day!

I'm here for entertainment purposes only

Oracle Bone Diviner
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Coaching/GM Isn't Always The Issue Sept 14, 2021 9:13:50 GMT -6 Reignman likes this

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Post by Oracle Bone Diviner on Sept 14, 2021 9:13:50 GMT -6

Sept 14, 2021 8:08:03 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Sept 14, 2021 7:56:01 GMT -6 comet52 said:

What "points" are you referring to? Did the guy hire you to take shots at other posters on his behalf? He can stand up for himself without his daddy running to the rescue.

Oh and piss off while you're at it.

And to think I rewrote my post to be nicer than I originally was going to be. He has added more in his two posts in this thread than you have in my entire time on this board. That is coming from someone who disagrees with the vast majority of what he wrote. Which is fine, he has his opinions, I have mine and debating them is why most post here.

People can be positive about their favorite team and not be related to Zimmer or Rick. People can be negative about their favorite team and not be "haters". This labeling of fans is childish and adds nothing.

Football fans can be childish, especially in the face of watching their teams suck year after year. Its part of the fun of football forums. Its only a game, lighten up.

Have you tried Vikings Message Board? They are very serious and would never allow someone to be a hater or use the word apologist. Might be a good fit.

There's a ringing in my ear and I think it's the Call of the Wild

itinerant, noun; a person who works and wanders.