Spielman, Zimmer, and Kirk

whoskmoon
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Spielman, Zimmer, and Kirk Apr 13, 2021 8:27:54 GMT -6 Jor-El likes this

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Post by whoskmoon on Apr 13, 2021 8:27:54 GMT -6

Apr 13, 2021 7:33:20 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Apr 13, 2021 7:16:12 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

If they win it all, I will gladly put up with all three as long as they want to stay here. That goes without saying. But I don't see any signs of them rising beyond a team that is cycling between barely making the playoffs and barely missing them.

I think we are cursed by the Giants winning SB 46 after a 9-7 season because it generated support for the "just get into the playoffs and anything can happen" attitude. Possible, but really unlikely. Carries even more weight with Giants fans like the Wilfs.

Side note: Eli Manning is not a hall of famer...

He's literally Kirk Cousins with much less arm talent and way more luck...

Eli had more arm talent than Cousins ever had. Up until the end of his career he was widely regarded as having one of the best deep balls in the NFL.

He was lucky in that his team never gave up more than 20 points in any of his playoff games on the way to SBs, but he also had to make his own luck by rarely turning the ball over to help his defense out (in those SB runs, not throughout his career obviously) and coming in clutch in some close games.

It is that clutchness that separates the two more than anything, and really it is the ability to make something happen when the game plan goes out the window that defines that clutchness. Without it Eli's career is probably very similar to Cousins, with it he is probably a HOFer. Top 10 in yards and TDs by the time he becomes HOF eligible and 2 SB rings usually gets you in.

Last Edit: Apr 13, 2021 8:37:39 GMT -6 by whoskmoon

whoskmoon
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Spielman, Zimmer, and Kirk Apr 13, 2021 8:30:24 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Apr 13, 2021 8:30:24 GMT -6

Apr 13, 2021 8:25:04 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

Apr 13, 2021 7:33:20 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Side note: Eli Manning is not a hall of famer...

He's literally Kirk Cousins with much less arm talent and way more luck...

That's actually a really interesting observation, because it makes me wonder if ownership here sees Cousins as perfectly comparable to Eli and just in need of luck.

I don't think there is any question that ownership (admitted Giants fans) sees Cousins as the next Eli, but even if that were true, which it is not as I described above, banking on him being the next Eli, when the vast majority of QBs at that level never win it all, is a stupid plan.

pinfante79
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Spielman, Zimmer, and Kirk Apr 13, 2021 8:42:32 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by pinfante79 on Apr 13, 2021 8:42:32 GMT -6

Apr 13, 2021 8:25:04 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

Apr 13, 2021 7:33:20 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Side note: Eli Manning is not a hall of famer...

He's literally Kirk Cousins with much less arm talent and way more luck...

That's actually a really interesting observation, because it makes me wonder if ownership here sees Cousins as perfectly comparable to Eli and just in need of luck.

We are the Vikings. If we didn't have bad luck we would have no luck... I mean you'd hope the law of averages swings our way at some point. No fanbase in sports deserves it more

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pinfante79
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Spielman, Zimmer, and Kirk Apr 13, 2021 8:45:30 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by pinfante79 on Apr 13, 2021 8:45:30 GMT -6

Apr 13, 2021 8:27:54 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Apr 13, 2021 7:33:20 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Side note: Eli Manning is not a hall of famer...

He's literally Kirk Cousins with much less arm talent and way more luck...

Eli had more arm talent than Cousins ever had. Up until the end of his career he was widely regarded as having one of the best deep balls in the NFL.

He was lucky in that his team never gave up more than 20 points in any of his playoff games on the way to SBs, but he also had to make his own luck by rarely turning the ball over to help his defense out (in those SB runs, not throughout his career obviously) and coming in clutch in some close games.

It is that clutchness that separates the two more than anything, and really it is the ability to make something happen when the game plan goes out the window that defines that clutchness. Without it Eli's career is probably very similar to Cousins, with it he is probably a HOFer. Top 10 in yards and TDs by the time he becomes HOF eligible and 2 SB rings usually gets you in.

The first one a dude caught a hail mary off his head and the nfc championship game in road to the second had a million things go thier way that should never of...

Eli only won playoffs games in 2 seasons of his career. He's no hall of famer. He's a .500 QB who had things fall him way. Why wasn't he clutch any other year? Didn't they choke as a 1 seed at home in a divisional round one year?

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pinfante79
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Spielman, Zimmer, and Kirk Apr 13, 2021 8:50:20 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by pinfante79 on Apr 13, 2021 8:50:20 GMT -6

Apr 13, 2021 8:45:30 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

Apr 13, 2021 8:27:54 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Eli had more arm talent than Cousins ever had. Up until the end of his career he was widely regarded as having one of the best deep balls in the NFL.

He was lucky in that his team never gave up more than 20 points in any of his playoff games on the way to SBs, but he also had to make his own luck by rarely turning the ball over to help his defense out (in those SB runs, not throughout his career obviously) and coming in clutch in some close games.

It is that clutchness that separates the two more than anything, and really it is the ability to make something happen when the game plan goes out the window that defines that clutchness. Without it Eli's career is probably very similar to Cousins, with it he is probably a HOFer. Top 10 in yards and TDs by the time he becomes HOF eligible and 2 SB rings usually gets you in.

The first one a dude caught a hail mary off his head and the nfc championship game in road to the second had a million things go thier way that should never of...

Eli only won playoffs games in 2 seasons of his career. He's no hall of famer. He's a .500 QB who had things fall him way. Why wasn't he clutch any other year? Didn't they choke as a 1 seed at home in a divisional round one year?

If Eli Manning was our QB hed be run out of town so fast cause he has thrown awful ints... And has no huge numbers to back it up. He'd be killed by the fan base worse than Cousins.

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Jor-El
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Spielman, Zimmer, and Kirk Apr 13, 2021 11:34:50 GMT -6

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Post by Jor-El on Apr 13, 2021 11:34:50 GMT -6

Apr 13, 2021 8:27:54 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Top 10 in yards and TDs by the time he becomes HOF eligible and 2 SB rings usually gets you in.

Actually, I was thinking about the same - IMO Eli is at least 50-50 to get into the Hall. Two rings is a big deal, and other factors (name recognition, NY market) will help.

Danchat
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Spielman, Zimmer, and Kirk Apr 13, 2021 11:56:53 GMT -6

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Post by Danchat on Apr 13, 2021 11:56:53 GMT -6

Apr 13, 2021 8:50:20 GMT -6 pinfante79 said:

If Eli Manning was our QB hed be run out of town so fast cause he has thrown awful ints... And has no huge numbers to back it up. He'd be killed by the fan base worse than Cousins.

As I had said before, it depends. Is Eli Manning being added to a 13-3 team and being given a 100% guaranteed contract and being expected to be the final piece to a super bowl caliber team? Or is he being picked in the 1st round as a rookie? Context matters. The fans will be more patient if the plan is to develop him and build up to eventually be a SB contender, but if he's brought into be the final piece to the puzzle, the fans should be upset if they've got in the past 3 years is a single playoff berth as a 6th seed with one win in the playoffs.

whoskmoon
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Spielman, Zimmer, and Kirk Apr 13, 2021 12:00:29 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Apr 13, 2021 12:00:29 GMT -6

Apr 13, 2021 11:34:50 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

Apr 13, 2021 8:27:54 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Top 10 in yards and TDs by the time he becomes HOF eligible and 2 SB rings usually gets you in.

Actually, I was thinking about the same - IMO Eli is at least 50-50 to get into the Hall. Two rings is a big deal, and other factors (name recognition, NY market) will help.

I would also say it is about 50-50. It depends on how swayed people are by his final few years in NY versus the fact he won the big game twice.

vikingpwr Living Legend Posts: 21,402 Likes: 4,610	Spielman, Zimmer, and Kirk Apr 13, 2021 12:25:12 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by vikingpwr on Apr 13, 2021 12:25:12 GMT -6 Eli Manning in 2007 and 2011 playoffs..... 8 wins 15 TDs 2 INTs He was money when it counted!

VikingsBoss
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Spielman, Zimmer, and Kirk Apr 13, 2021 13:10:30 GMT -6

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Post by VikingsBoss on Apr 13, 2021 13:10:30 GMT -6

Apr 13, 2021 12:00:29 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Apr 13, 2021 11:34:50 GMT -6 Jor-El said:

Actually, I was thinking about the same - IMO Eli is at least 50-50 to get into the Hall. Two rings is a big deal, and other factors (name recognition, NY market) will help.

I would also say it is about 50-50. It depends on how swayed people are by his final few years in NY versus the fact he won the big game twice.

Jim Plunkett is the only other two time winning Super Bowl QB not in the Hall of Fame. Aside from just the number of games the two played they are very similar. .500 QBs who had a couple of solid playoff runs. Overall Eli is better, but I don't know whether he will ever overcome the stigma of not being Peyton Manning and get into the Hall.

The Cardinals have knocked the Vikings out of the playoffs! NO!-Paul Allen, December 28th, 2003

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Spielman, Zimmer, and Kirk Apr 13, 2021 13:47:46 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by comet52 on Apr 13, 2021 13:47:46 GMT -6

Apr 13, 2021 12:25:12 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Eli Manning in 2007 and 2011 playoffs.....

8 wins

15 TDs

2 INTs

He was money when it counted!

He was also drafted #1 overall vs. Kirk being a 4th rounder, so while draft position doesn't mean a lot once a player is in the league, I think that there was a higher base level of talent there to start with.

Unfortunately it wouldn't surprise me if the Vikings "plan" consists of hoping to get lucky. The wavering middle of the road results under the current management seem to reflect exactly that.

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vikingpwr
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Spielman, Zimmer, and Kirk Apr 13, 2021 16:16:39 GMT -6

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Post by vikingpwr on Apr 13, 2021 16:16:39 GMT -6

Apr 13, 2021 13:47:46 GMT -6 comet52 said:

Apr 13, 2021 12:25:12 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Eli Manning in 2007 and 2011 playoffs.....

8 wins

15 TDs

2 INTs

He was money when it counted!

He was also drafted #1 overall vs. Kirk being a 4th rounder, so while draft position doesn't mean a lot once a player is in the league, I think that there was a higher base level of talent there to start with.

Unfortunately it wouldn't surprise me if the Vikings "plan" consists of hoping to get lucky. The wavering middle of the road results under the current management seem to reflect exactly that.

Leading your team to a Super Bowl win is hard as hell. Doing it twice is pretty damn impressive! Eli Manning was money when it counted the most in 2007 and 2011. All that other stuff is irrelevant in my book.