Why The Vikings Can Win It All THIS YEAR

suncoastvike
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Why The Vikings Can Win It All THIS YEAR Aug 27, 2021 14:05:42 GMT -6

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Post by suncoastvike on Aug 27, 2021 14:05:42 GMT -6

Aug 27, 2021 13:59:48 GMT -6 Uncle said:

The plan at the beginning of the Zimmer era in 2014 was to have Zimmer build a solid defense while also taking a developmental Rd 1 QB to manage the offense - that was Teddy Bridgewater who was taken in Rd 1 in Zim's "rookie" year (2014).

Things went according to plan in 2014/2015 - Zimmer took the defense that he adopted and improved them a bit (Rhodes, Harry, Griffin) and brought in Barr/Kendricks/Hunter in the early seasons. The defense was stout and Teddy was the starter in 2015 and they surprisingly won the NFC North.

Then in 2016 it came crashing down when Teddy went down in the preseason...and the Vikings have tried to put band-aid after band-aid at the QB position ever since, while trying to maintain the defense and struggling with developing players at some key areas (OL being the prime example).

So while it's definitely within reason to "knock" both Rick and Zimmer on their attempts to keep the early "plan" afloat post-2016, they definitely did have one in 2014/2015/2016 (pre-Teddy injury).

Basically, they both suffer from the same thing that some fans hold against Zimmer: their ability to adapt/change when things don't go according to plan.

Well seeing that 2016 was 5 years ago adapt and change with any degree of timely speed seems the least we could ask.

If being a Viking fan was easy ~ everyone would do it.

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Why The Vikings Can Win It All THIS YEAR Aug 27, 2021 14:07:56 GMT -6

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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2021 14:07:56 GMT -6

Aug 27, 2021 13:59:48 GMT -6 Uncle said:

The plan at the beginning of the Zimmer era in 2014 was to have Zimmer build a solid defense while also taking a developmental Rd 1 QB to manage the offense - that was Teddy Bridgewater who was taken in Rd 1 in Zim's "rookie" year (2014).

Things went according to plan in 2014/2015 - Zimmer took the defense that he adopted and improved them a bit (Rhodes, Harry, Griffin) and brought in Barr/Kendricks/Hunter in the early seasons. The defense was stout and Teddy was the starter in 2015 and they surprisingly won the NFC North.

Then in 2016 it came crashing down when Teddy went down in the preseason...and the Vikings have tried to put band-aid after band-aid at the QB position ever since, while trying to maintain the defense and struggling with developing players at some key areas (OL being the prime example).

So while it's definitely within reason to "knock" both Rick and Zimmer on their attempts to keep the early "plan" afloat post-2016, they definitely did have one in 2014/2015/2016 (pre-Teddy injury).

Basically, they both suffer from the same thing that some fans hold against Zimmer: their ability to adapt/change when things don't go according to plan.

Most fans will adapt to anything working. MOST.

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Why The Vikings Can Win It All THIS YEAR Aug 27, 2021 14:12:22 GMT -6

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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2021 14:12:22 GMT -6

Teddy wasnt some great qb…as history has proven. And that defense wasnt that great.. Good teams, good players, but never anything remotely resembling what normally wins superbowls.
On a side I bet you there will be a real push to make zimmer the next bud grant.

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Why The Vikings Can Win It All THIS YEAR Aug 27, 2021 14:12:57 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2021 14:12:57 GMT -6

Aug 27, 2021 13:59:48 GMT -6 Uncle said:

The plan at the beginning of the Zimmer era in 2014 was to have Zimmer build a solid defense while also taking a developmental Rd 1 QB to manage the offense - that was Teddy Bridgewater who was taken in Rd 1 in Zim's "rookie" year (2014).

Things went according to plan in 2014/2015 - Zimmer took the defense that he adopted and improved them a bit (Rhodes, Harry, Griffin) and brought in Barr/Kendricks/Hunter in the early seasons. The defense was stout and Teddy was the starter in 2015 and they surprisingly won the NFC North.

Then in 2016 it came crashing down when Teddy went down in the preseason...and the Vikings have tried to put band-aid after band-aid at the QB position ever since, while trying to maintain the defense and struggling with developing players at some key areas (OL being the prime example).

So while it's definitely within reason to "knock" both Rick and Zimmer on their attempts to keep the early "plan" afloat post-2016, they definitely did have one in 2014/2015/2016 (pre-Teddy injury).

Basically, they both suffer from the same thing that some fans hold against Zimmer: their ability to adapt/change when things don't go according to plan.

and that is exactly what happened. We were on the right track. Then unfortunately Teddy knee exploded and derailed us. Yes we panicked and it is not a excuse to keep messing up. But boy that definitely set us back.

My thinking is after spending to much for Bradford and paying to much for Kirk is. Hope that Mond can become solid and we can get back on track with a athletic decent guy and build the team around him. Our style is to get a solid athletic QB who can move around and be balanced at a reasonable price. Then build the team around them. Strong defense, good running game, and a QB that can make timely passes and also buy time with his feet. That was the original plan and what I believe we trying to get back to.

Last Edit: Aug 27, 2021 14:21:21 GMT -6 by Deleted

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Why The Vikings Can Win It All THIS YEAR Aug 27, 2021 14:17:27 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2021 14:17:27 GMT -6

Missing on Mond is not at the same level as missing on a 1st RD QB. Because we would give a 1st rounder at least 3 years before we give up. With Mond it was worth the risk in the 3rd. Because the investment was not as steep and we can promptly go back into the well without hesitation quickly. It won't be a ego thing because it's quite common a 3rd won't turn out so if we don't see signs through out this year we can jump right back in the ring with no hesitation.

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Why The Vikings Can Win It All THIS YEAR Aug 27, 2021 14:17:32 GMT -6

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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2021 14:17:32 GMT -6

Aug 27, 2021 14:05:42 GMT -6 suncoastvike said:

Aug 27, 2021 13:59:48 GMT -6 Uncle said:

The plan at the beginning of the Zimmer era in 2014 was to have Zimmer build a solid defense while also taking a developmental Rd 1 QB to manage the offense - that was Teddy Bridgewater who was taken in Rd 1 in Zim's "rookie" year (2014).

Things went according to plan in 2014/2015 - Zimmer took the defense that he adopted and improved them a bit (Rhodes, Harry, Griffin) and brought in Barr/Kendricks/Hunter in the early seasons. The defense was stout and Teddy was the starter in 2015 and they surprisingly won the NFC North.

Then in 2016 it came crashing down when Teddy went down in the preseason...and the Vikings have tried to put band-aid after band-aid at the QB position ever since, while trying to maintain the defense and struggling with developing players at some key areas (OL being the prime example).

So while it's definitely within reason to "knock" both Rick and Zimmer on their attempts to keep the early "plan" afloat post-2016, they definitely did have one in 2014/2015/2016 (pre-Teddy injury).

Basically, they both suffer from the same thing that some fans hold against Zimmer: their ability to adapt/change when things don't go according to plan.

Well seeing that 2016 was 5 years ago adapt and change with any degree of timely speed seems the least we could ask.

The team wasnt that good. Teddy wasnt that good..5? Try 50.

Deleted Ghosted Member Posts: 0 Likes:	Why The Vikings Can Win It All THIS YEAR Aug 27, 2021 14:19:33 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2021 14:19:33 GMT -6 We want better drafts, so lets punt on everything but the 1st, which we dont get right either. I love my fellow vikings fans.

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Why The Vikings Can Win It All THIS YEAR Aug 27, 2021 14:20:21 GMT -6 suncoastvike, comet52, and 1 more like this

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Post by Uncle on Aug 27, 2021 14:20:21 GMT -6

Aug 27, 2021 14:05:42 GMT -6 suncoastvike said:

Aug 27, 2021 13:59:48 GMT -6 Uncle said:

Well seeing that 2016 was 5 years ago adapt and change with any degree of timely speed seems the least we could ask.

...and that's the issue; after the miracle season of 2017 (the "peak" of the Zimmer defensive plan and "era"), it was obvious that with Teddy likely out for the foreseeable future and the way Zimmer's "peak" defense was handled by the Eagles, change and adaptability were needed...

And instead, they paid full open-market price for "Teddy" (ie, Kirk isn't giving you a ton more than Teddy likely would have in terms of wins, regardless of the stats Kirk puts up or Dustin Baker tweets), didn't develop the OL and have tried to keep the defensive "band" together with mixed results (Rhodes and Barr not playing up to their early Zimmer days, while Hunter/Harry continuing to play at a high level).

Will 2021 be the year of adaptability and change and finally turning the corner? Not likely - you've just replaced Rhodes/Waynes with P Peterson/Breeland while Griffin/Barr are nowhere near the players they were in the early Zimmer era, and you're still overpaying for the QB position (in terms of the "effectiveness" of winning games vs putting up decent stats).

While some "old dogs" have adapted and learned new tricks (Saban and Orgeron at the collegiate level and Reid at the NFL level), until we see the same from Zimmer I'm not believing it.

suncoastvike
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Why The Vikings Can Win It All THIS YEAR Aug 27, 2021 14:30:33 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

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Post by suncoastvike on Aug 27, 2021 14:30:33 GMT -6

Aug 27, 2021 14:12:57 GMT -6 Drank said:

Aug 27, 2021 13:59:48 GMT -6 Uncle said:

The plan at the beginning of the Zimmer era in 2014 was to have Zimmer build a solid defense while also taking a developmental Rd 1 QB to manage the offense - that was Teddy Bridgewater who was taken in Rd 1 in Zim's "rookie" year (2014).

Things went according to plan in 2014/2015 - Zimmer took the defense that he adopted and improved them a bit (Rhodes, Harry, Griffin) and brought in Barr/Kendricks/Hunter in the early seasons. The defense was stout and Teddy was the starter in 2015 and they surprisingly won the NFC North.

Then in 2016 it came crashing down when Teddy went down in the preseason...and the Vikings have tried to put band-aid after band-aid at the QB position ever since, while trying to maintain the defense and struggling with developing players at some key areas (OL being the prime example).

So while it's definitely within reason to "knock" both Rick and Zimmer on their attempts to keep the early "plan" afloat post-2016, they definitely did have one in 2014/2015/2016 (pre-Teddy injury).

Basically, they both suffer from the same thing that some fans hold against Zimmer: their ability to adapt/change when things don't go according to plan.

and that is exactly what happened. We were on the right track. Then unfortunately Teddy knee exploded and derailed us. Yes we panicked and it is not a excuse to keep messing up. But boy that definitely set us back.

My thinking is after spending to much for Bradford and paying to much for Kirk is. Hope that Mond can become solid and we can get back on track with a athletic decent guy and build the team around him. Our style is to get a solid athletic QB who can move around and be balanced at a reasonable price. Then build the team around them. Strong defense, good running game, and I QB that can make timely passes and also buy time with his feet. That was the original plan and what I believe we trying to get back to.

Unfortunate seems to be the mantra when it comes to finding a franchise defining QB here. Teddy had the most promise of being that home grown one since Culpepper. Not that he had alot of real competition being we mostly kept reaching and busting with the draft. Well when they even tried that is. Cousins has the one thing going for him in he will be opening day starter a 4th straight season for us. A feat last accomplished by Culpepper. His good stats and longevity "should" be enough for us you'd think?? It is however his inability to win enough big games that has defined him and us unfortunately. It's natural that people want that something else. Just something more then good.

If being a Viking fan was easy ~ everyone would do it.

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Why The Vikings Can Win It All THIS YEAR Aug 27, 2021 14:34:57 GMT -6 Funkytown and Will like this

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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2021 14:34:57 GMT -6

Aug 27, 2021 14:20:21 GMT -6 Uncle said:

Aug 27, 2021 14:05:42 GMT -6 suncoastvike said:

Well seeing that 2016 was 5 years ago adapt and change with any degree of timely speed seems the least we could ask.

...and that's the issue; after the miracle season of 2017 (the "peak" of the Zimmer defensive plan and "era"), it was obvious that with Teddy likely out for the foreseeable future and the way Zimmer's "peak" defense was handled by the Eagles, change and adaptability were needed...

And instead, they paid full open-market price for "Teddy" (ie, Kirk isn't giving you a ton more than Teddy likely would have in terms of wins, regardless of the stats Kirk puts up or Dustin Baker tweets), didn't develop the OL and have tried to keep the defensive "band" together with mixed results (Rhodes and Barr not playing up to their early Zimmer days, while Hunter/Harry continuing to play at a high level).

Will 2021 be the year of adaptability and change and finally turning the corner? Not likely - you've just replaced Rhodes/Waynes with P Peterson/Breeland while Griffin/Barr are nowhere near the players they were in the early Zimmer era, and you're still overpaying for the QB position (in terms of the "effectiveness" of winning games vs putting up decent stats).

While some "old dogs" have adapted and learned new tricks (Saban and Orgeron at the collegiate level and Reid at the NFL level), until we see the same from Zimmer I'm not believing it.

I truly believe also that we would have as many wins and been in the same similar position if Teddy never got hurt as far as wins.

The difference is we would of had a lot more money for flexibility to build a stronger team around a Teddy so in my eyes the overall team would be better.

We showed we dont need a elite guy necessairly to have a good season. Keenum and Teddy proved that. What we need is a steady Eddie who can bring us consistent year by year production.

At the the same time to be a constant Super Bowl threat you obviously need to find a elite guy. So if we would have had a solid guy and was able to spend with long term FAs better. We could have been in a better place to move up in a draft for that elite guy. That's what the Chiefs did. They got Alex Smith a steady Eddie started building the team. Then when that dude came around traded up to get that elite guy to complete the mission. No doubt about it the Teddy situation derailed us.

Now it's been years and it's time to recover. If we don't soon like now it's fire people time.

Last Edit: Aug 27, 2021 14:43:25 GMT -6 by Deleted

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Why The Vikings Can Win It All THIS YEAR Aug 27, 2021 14:39:58 GMT -6 suncoastvike and Longship like this

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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2021 14:39:58 GMT -6

Aug 27, 2021 14:30:33 GMT -6 suncoastvike said:

Aug 27, 2021 14:12:57 GMT -6 Drank said:

and that is exactly what happened. We were on the right track. Then unfortunately Teddy knee exploded and derailed us. Yes we panicked and it is not a excuse to keep messing up. But boy that definitely set us back.

My thinking is after spending to much for Bradford and paying to much for Kirk is. Hope that Mond can become solid and we can get back on track with a athletic decent guy and build the team around him. Our style is to get a solid athletic QB who can move around and be balanced at a reasonable price. Then build the team around them. Strong defense, good running game, and I QB that can make timely passes and also buy time with his feet. That was the original plan and what I believe we trying to get back to.

Unfortunate seems to be the mantra when it comes to finding a franchise defining QB here. Teddy had the most promise of being that home grown one since Culpepper. Not that he had alot of real competition being we mostly kept reaching and busting with the draft. Well when they even tried that is. Cousins has the one thing going for him in he will be opening day starter a 4th straight season for us. A feat last accomplished by Culpepper. His good stats and longevity "should" be enough for us you'd think?? It is however his inability to win enough big games that has defined him and us unfortunately. It's natural that people want that something else. Just something more then good.

Yeah it sucks we had both Culpepper and Teddy go down and screwed us. Yep the Kirk deal is weird. We finally got a durable guy but stuff is missing. He thrives until things get hot then he melts. We would have signed up for a durable guy any day. But then we realize something missing with Kirk and we like nope this ain't it neither. That's our luck Sun hard to put a finger on it, but it's always something SMH.

pinfante79 Jersey Retired Posts: 4,277 Likes: 1,736 Fan Since: Mid 80's	Why The Vikings Can Win It All THIS YEAR Aug 27, 2021 18:15:50 GMT -6 via Tapatalk Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by pinfante79 on Aug 27, 2021 18:15:50 GMT -6 I will say this preseason yells me if we lose Dalvin, Jefferson, Thielen, Hunter, Barr, Peterson, and Harry.... Then we're f*cked😳
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Purple Pain Hall of Fame Nominee Posts: 8,744 Likes: 2,880	Why The Vikings Can Win It All THIS YEAR Sept 7, 2021 10:05:30 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Purple Pain on Sept 7, 2021 10:05:30 GMT -6

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Why The Vikings Can Win It All THIS YEAR Sept 7, 2021 11:38:09 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

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Post by Will on Sept 7, 2021 11:38:09 GMT -6

From above:
Why they might disappoint:

• Top-heavy roster means they need to stay healthy - makes sense
• Built to run the ball & stop the run, but it's a passing league - yes they will be better against the run,
and they should also be better against the pass with Hunter and better cornerbacks.
• First-year OC/playcaller - it would be a step back if he is not good at calling plays or his scheme is too predictable
• Little continuity with so many new faces - makes sense
• Special teams & pass protection still look below average - Joseph does not seem reliable at 50+. Will the new coordinator be better? Better results with more young linebackers? They could also be an improved passing team with better interior protection. If Hill's pass protection is decent, it may be than running to the left is harder.

James Franchise Player Posts: 3,329 Likes: 2,413	Why The Vikings Can Win It All THIS YEAR Sept 8, 2021 21:13:34 GMT -6 via mobile EricTheViking likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by James on Sept 8, 2021 21:13:34 GMT -6 No team in NFL history has ever won a Super Bowl with a QB accounting for such a high % of the cap. Never.