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This isn't a science like so many of you haters seem to think it is.

People need to stop calling others "haters" just because they disagree.

I consider myself to be an objective realist,and if that rubs some people the wrong way then so be it.

Unless you get lucky and draft a true franchise QB your odds are slim no matter what you do. And yes it's largely luck, Rodgers falling to the Pack, Brady falling to the 6th round, the Bears drafting Trubisky, leaving Mahomes for KC.

No,it's not luck.

Rodgers falling to pick 24 is not luck.The Vikings for example had two picks before #24,and they chose Troy Williamson at #7 and Erasmus James at #18.

That 2015 Vikings draft is regarded as the worst in team history,and in the top 5 worst drafts in NFL history.That's got nothing to do with luck,it's poor analysis and scouting.

Mahomes falling to KC is not luck.

Firstly,Chicago made a stupid decision,which was widely criticized at the time,but Ryan Pace drafted "his guy"

The Chiefs,who had Alex Smith under contract, then saw an opportunity to draft their QB of the future and jumped at it.Luck didn't play any part,poor evaluation by Ryan Pace was the biggest factor in the Chiefs being able to move up and take their guy.

Here's a couple of excerpts from a ChicagoTribune article:

With an undeniable rush, Pace expounded upon his philosophy of never having regrets, about making damn certain he would get the player he truly wanted. He highlighted Trubisky’s accuracy, his ability to see and process the entire field, his knack for extending plays. He emphasized his unwavering belief that Trubisky had great “potential to be a championship quarterback,” the key cog in allowing the Bears to enjoy sustained success.
“When you have an opportunity to get a quarterback of this caliber, you can't pass on it,” Pace said.The Chiefs already had a reliable quarterback in veteran Alex Smith and a playoff-caliber team that had won 12 games the previous season. Still, in Mahomes, Dorsey and his talent evaluation team saw a transcendent talent with comic-book arm strength, impressive athleticism and a penchant for creating big plays.

The Vikings have drafted one franchise QB in their entire history in Tarkington IMO, and we b*tch and complain because Rick hasn't done so in seven years.

The Vikings have only drafted four 1st round QBs in their history.They also have only taken two 2nd rounders and one 3rd rounder (Fran)

Of those,3 have been taken this century (Jackson,Ponder,Bridgewater)

Spielman has been with the Vikings since 2006 and has been involved in the draft in some capacity during that time.The Vikings have selected the following QBs:

2006 Tavaris Jackson

2007 Tyler Thigpen

2008 John David Booty

2011 Christian Ponder

2014 Teddy Bridgewater

What a stellar list of "talent"

I won't blame the guy for a franchise QB not falling into his lap,

Franchise QBs don't fall in to your lap.

You have to identify the talent and then find a way to get your guy.Just like the Chiefs and Texans did.

Pretty sure Culpepper was a first round pick. Also, he was the reason they didn't go for Rodgers. He had one of the best years ever in 2004 that any QB had up to that point. Why would they consider Rodgers when Culpepper was tearing it up? It's not their fault he was injured and went of the rails.

You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.

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Ownership Dec 4, 2020 19:38:56 GMT -6 Longship, comet52, and 1 more like this

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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2020 19:38:56 GMT -6

Pretty sure Culpepper was a first round pick. Also, he was the reason they didn't go for Rodgers. He had one of the best years ever in 2004 that any QB had up to that point. Why would they consider Rodgers when Culpepper was tearing it up? It's not their fault he was injured and went of the rails.

Culpepper was taken in the 1st round,but I said:

Of those,3 have been taken this century (Jackson,Ponder,Bridgewater)

1999 was last century *thumb_up*

There's no argument Culpepper had a great season statistically,but the Vikings went 8-8,finishing 2nd in the division to Favre and the Packers.

So to answer the second part of your question,Favre also had a good year statistically and won the division,so using your logic the Packers shouldn't have been in the market for a 1st round QB either.

The difference here,and the whole point of my post,is about talent evaluation,especially at the QB position.Green Bay saw a QB with franchise potential and drafted him,even though they didn't intend to start him immediately.

Just the same as Kansas City saw a QB with franchise potential with Patrick Mahomes and drafted him,even though they had Alex Smith under contract and were coming off a 10-6 season and a playoff berth and never had a losing season with Smith.

Houston saw a QB with franchise potential and moved up to get him and have just cemented Watson as their long term QB.

Talent evaluation at the QB position is sadly lacking,and has been for years.

Raptorman
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Post by Raptorman on Dec 4, 2020 20:06:30 GMT -6

Dec 4, 2020 19:38:56 GMT -6 @aussie61 said:

Pretty sure Culpepper was a first round pick. Also, he was the reason they didn't go for Rodgers. He had one of the best years ever in 2004 that any QB had up to that point. Why would they consider Rodgers when Culpepper was tearing it up? It's not their fault he was injured and went of the rails.

Culpepper was taken in the 1st round,but I said:

Of those,3 have been taken this century (Jackson,Ponder,Bridgewater)

1999 was last century *thumb_up*

There's no argument Culpepper had a great season statistically,but the Vikings went 8-8,finishing 2nd in the division to Favre and the Packers.

So to answer the second part of your question,Favre also had a good year statistically and won the division,so using your logic the Packers shouldn't have been in the market for a 1st round QB either.

The difference here,and the whole point of my post,is about talent evaluation,especially at the QB position.Green Bay saw a QB with franchise potential and drafted him,even though they didn't intend to start him immediately.

Just the same as Kansas City saw a QB with franchise potential with Patrick Mahomes and drafted him,even though they had Alex Smith under contract and were coming off a 10-6 season and a playoff berth and never had a losing season with Smith.

Houston saw a QB with franchise potential and moved up to get him and have just cemented Watson as their long term QB.

Talent evaluation at the QB position is sadly lacking,and has been for years.

Green Bay has drafted 2 HOF QB's in 80 years. Bart Starr and Aaron Rodgers. Don't make them out to be some QB knowledgeable team, because they aren't. No one is. It's a crap shoot.

You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.

Danchat
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Ownership Dec 4, 2020 20:09:47 GMT -6 scubasteve likes this

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Post by Danchat on Dec 4, 2020 20:09:47 GMT -6

Dec 4, 2020 19:38:56 GMT -6 @aussie61 said:

There's no argument Culpepper had a great season statistically,but the Vikings went 8-8,finishing 2nd in the division to Favre and the Packers.

So to answer the second part of your question,Favre also had a good year statistically and won the division,so using your logic the Packers shouldn't have been in the market for a 1st round QB either.

I wasn't watching football back in 2004, but when your franchise QB just had one of the best statistical seasons (at the time) in 2004 at just age 27, you most certainly do not draft a QB in the first round to have sit behind him. They had the #6 scoring offense and #2 passing game with him and the defense was a bottom 5 unit - fix the defense and try to win a Super Bowl! I get it if you want to draft a QB in the 3rd-4th round to have as a future prospect, but blowing a 1st rounder on a QB who won't be able to help the team until 2008 is a great way to waste a playoff window.

Dec 4, 2020 19:38:56 GMT -6 @aussie61 said:

So to answer the second part of your question,Favre also had a good year statistically and won the division,so using your logic the Packers shouldn't have been in the market for a 1st round QB either.

The difference here,and the whole point of my post,is about talent evaluation,especially at the QB position.Green Bay saw a QB with franchise potential and drafted him,even though they didn't intend to start him immediately.

Just the same as Kansas City saw a QB with franchise potential with Patrick Mahomes and drafted him,even though they had Alex Smith under contract and were coming off a 10-6 season and a playoff berth and never had a losing season with Smith.

Houston saw a QB with franchise potential and moved up to get him and have just cemented Watson as their long term QB.

Favre was 36 when Rodgers was drafted, and the Packers were planning for Rodgers to take over after he would presumably retire. He was not 27 and in his prime. Alex Smith was 33, and was clearly not going to lead the Chiefs to the promised land going 1-3 in playoff games under them. Houston had absolutely nothing at QB (Tom Savage anyone?) when they moved up for Watson.

Unless you have future knowledge that Culpepper was going to shred his knee up and fall apart, you build around him and try to win a Super Bowl now.

Last Edit: Dec 4, 2020 20:10:24 GMT -6 by Danchat

PurpleKoolaid
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Post by PurpleKoolaid on Dec 4, 2020 23:46:13 GMT -6

Dec 4, 2020 10:14:48 GMT -6 scubasteve said:

The Vikings had a QB in Culpepper why would they draft Rodgers as luck bad as usual would have it Culpepper blows out his knee.
So it Rick’s fault that a first round tackle who made the pro bowl as a rookie knees turn to garbage?
I would really love for Hut to name a few good moves Rick has made without any negatives
I think there have been many great moves by Rick please feel free to contact your cardiologist now
We should start a list of moves made by Rick and you can say good bad or in between

LOL

vikingpitbull
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Post by vikingpitbull on Dec 5, 2020 5:08:24 GMT -6

Dec 4, 2020 20:06:30 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Dec 4, 2020 19:38:56 GMT -6 @aussie61 said:

Culpepper was taken in the 1st round,but I said:

Of those,3 have been taken this century (Jackson,Ponder,Bridgewater)

1999 was last century *thumb_up*

There's no argument Culpepper had a great season statistically,but the Vikings went 8-8,finishing 2nd in the division to Favre and the Packers.

So to answer the second part of your question,Favre also had a good year statistically and won the division,so using your logic the Packers shouldn't have been in the market for a 1st round QB either.

The difference here,and the whole point of my post,is about talent evaluation,especially at the QB position.Green Bay saw a QB with franchise potential and drafted him,even though they didn't intend to start him immediately.

Just the same as Kansas City saw a QB with franchise potential with Patrick Mahomes and drafted him,even though they had Alex Smith under contract and were coming off a 10-6 season and a playoff berth and never had a losing season with Smith.

Houston saw a QB with franchise potential and moved up to get him and have just cemented Watson as their long term QB.

Talent evaluation at the QB position is sadly lacking,and has been for years.

Green Bay has drafted 2 HOF QB's in 80 years. Bart Starr and Aaron Rodgers. Don't make them out to be some QB knowledgeable team, because they aren't. No one is. It's a crap shoot.

Funny the excuse is always GB has had 2 HOF QBs back to back yet it's their fault. It's Belichick's fault for getting lucky with Brady it was luck when Seattle drafted Wilson or when Brees was a FA and went to the Saints and the Chargers getting Rivers to follow and the 49ers for having 2 HOFers back to back and Pittsburgh getting Big Ben. It was luck Reid identified Mahomes and on and on and on.

I mean why is it that Rick has never once had any luck at all here in Minnesota or Chicago in Detroit or Miami? Not in the draft not in FA. Also how many HOF QBs has the Vikings had? I'm thinking the QB we had never gave us what any of GBs did. 1 of GB almost won us one and Moon nothing.

vikingpitbull
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Post by vikingpitbull on Dec 5, 2020 5:37:38 GMT -6

Dec 4, 2020 20:09:47 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Dec 4, 2020 19:38:56 GMT -6 @aussie61 said:

There's no argument Culpepper had a great season statistically,but the Vikings went 8-8,finishing 2nd in the division to Favre and the Packers.

So to answer the second part of your question,Favre also had a good year statistically and won the division,so using your logic the Packers shouldn't have been in the market for a 1st round QB either.

I wasn't watching football back in 2004, but when your franchise QB just had one of the best statistical seasons (at the time) in 2004 at just age 27, you most certainly do not draft a QB in the first round to have sit behind him. They had the #6 scoring offense and #2 passing game with him and the defense was a bottom 5 unit - fix the defense and try to win a Super Bowl! I get it if you want to draft a QB in the 3rd-4th round to have as a future prospect, but blowing a 1st rounder on a QB who won't be able to help the team until 2008 is a great way to waste a playoff window.

Dec 4, 2020 19:38:56 GMT -6 @aussie61 said:

So to answer the second part of your question,Favre also had a good year statistically and won the division,so using your logic the Packers shouldn't have been in the market for a 1st round QB either.

The difference here,and the whole point of my post,is about talent evaluation,especially at the QB position.Green Bay saw a QB with franchise potential and drafted him,even though they didn't intend to start him immediately.

Just the same as Kansas City saw a QB with franchise potential with Patrick Mahomes and drafted him,even though they had Alex Smith under contract and were coming off a 10-6 season and a playoff berth and never had a losing season with Smith.

Houston saw a QB with franchise potential and moved up to get him and have just cemented Watson as their long term QB.

Favre was 36 when Rodgers was drafted, and the Packers were planning for Rodgers to take over after he would presumably retire. He was not 27 and in his prime. Alex Smith was 33, and was clearly not going to lead the Chiefs to the promised land going 1-3 in playoff games under them. Houston had absolutely nothing at QB (Tom Savage anyone?) when they moved up for Watson.

Unless you have future knowledge that Culpepper was going to shred his knee up and fall apart, you build around him and try to win a Super Bowl now.

What playoff window? Culpepper had 1 season over .500 his first and much of it was his fault. Looking at stats like it's the indicator of greatness. I guess you get that with Kirk as well? All the great stats and no team production. Stafford has had some great looking stats as well so I guess it's everyone elses fault?

In 98 the Vikings had one of the best offenses ever known and they had a pretty decent defense. Stats lie. That D was never asked to win games until the NFCCG and it couldn't because it wasn't as good as the offense made it look. Culpepper was drafted at 11 and sat an entire year they just went 10-6 the year before that 15-1 so what a wasted pick he was.

Favre was in his prime at 36 and played 3 more years before he was forced out. GB had no idea when Favre was done any more than Minnesota did with Culpepper who would have been in year 10 when Rodgers got his first start 3 year into his rookie contract.

Culpepper had multiple injuries before the knee one was a broken back in 2003. Once his WRs left he wasn't even average. The best of the worst QBs we had. I hate to tell you but they built the SB team before they drafted Culpepper. They went all in and their window was closed in 2000. See it helps to know these things. Unlike you I did watch football then not just look at stats and come in all knowing.

Last Edit: Dec 5, 2020 5:41:36 GMT -6 by vikingpitbull

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Post by comet52 on Dec 5, 2020 7:36:50 GMT -6

Watching that draft and seeing Rodgers keep sitting there waiting, I just got more and more worried that he was going to Green Bay. I was sick when it happened.

We had two first round picks prior to Green Bay that turned into Troy Williamson and Erasmus James, aka vomit and puke. Daunte's stats were mostly a product of having great talent around him. He was not lighting up the league or considered in the same breath as elite guys. He was more of a Stafford type. Looks good at times, screws up enough to never get the prize.

To say we couldn't take Rodgers at 18 is silly. Worst case if you're so in love with your mid-level Culpepper, you trade Rodgers. He was certainly more of an asset than either of the total busts we grabbed at 7 & 18 that year. It also would have blocked Green Bay's smart selection.

I'm here for entertainment purposes only

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Post by Raptorman on Dec 5, 2020 9:30:09 GMT -6

Dec 5, 2020 7:36:50 GMT -6 comet52 said:

Watching that draft and seeing Rodgers keep sitting there waiting, I just got more and more worried that he was going to Green Bay. I was sick when it happened.

We had two first round picks prior to Green Bay that turned into Troy Williamson and Erasmus James, aka vomit and puke. Daunte's stats were mostly a product of having great talent around him. He was not lighting up the league or considered in the same breath as elite guys. He was more of a Stafford type. Looks good at times, screws up enough to never get the prize.

To say we couldn't take Rodgers at 18 is silly. Worst case if you're so in love with your mid-level Culpepper, you trade Rodgers. He was certainly more of an asset than either of the total busts we grabbed at 7 & 18 that year. It also would have blocked Green Bay's smart selection.

And my bet is that had the Vikings Drafted Rodgers we would have been hearing the same crap about not winning a Super Bowl. See, the Vikings until Zimmer never had defense good enough to do it even if they had Rodgers. Just like the Packers, who have had a good defense exactly one year of Rodgers tenure. The year they won the Super Bowl.

You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.

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Post by comet52 on Dec 5, 2020 9:46:11 GMT -6

Dec 5, 2020 7:36:50 GMT -6 comet52 said:

Watching that draft and seeing Rodgers keep sitting there waiting, I just got more and more worried that he was going to Green Bay. I was sick when it happened.

We had two first round picks prior to Green Bay that turned into Troy Williamson and Erasmus James, aka vomit and puke. Daunte's stats were mostly a product of having great talent around him. He was not lighting up the league or considered in the same breath as elite guys. He was more of a Stafford type. Looks good at times, screws up enough to never get the prize.

To say we couldn't take Rodgers at 18 is silly. Worst case if you're so in love with your mid-level Culpepper, you trade Rodgers. He was certainly more of an asset than either of the total busts we grabbed at 7 & 18 that year. It also would have blocked Green Bay's smart selection.

And my bet is that had the Vikings Drafted Rodgers we would have been hearing the same crap about not winning a Super Bowl. See, the Vikings until Zimmer never had defense good enough to do it even if they had Rodgers. Just like the Packers, who have had a good defense exactly one year of Rodgers tenure. The year they won the Super Bowl.

Zimmer's defense wasn't good enough either. And we had better defenses than Zimmer's late 80's, early 90's, and 69-75, so I would not use the word never. Zimmer is vastly overrated by this fan base who think a tough guy act coupled with a bunch of embarrassing losses in meaningful games=We're the Champs!

I'm here for entertainment purposes only

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Post by Nordic on Dec 5, 2020 9:58:33 GMT -6

Dec 5, 2020 9:46:11 GMT -6 comet52 said:

And my bet is that had the Vikings Drafted Rodgers we would have been hearing the same crap about not winning a Super Bowl. See, the Vikings until Zimmer never had defense good enough to do it even if they had Rodgers. Just like the Packers, who have had a good defense exactly one year of Rodgers tenure. The year they won the Super Bowl.

Zimmer's defense wasn't good enough either. And we had better defenses than Zimmer's late 80's, early 90's, and 69-75, so I would not use the word never. Zimmer is vastly overrated by this fan base who think a tough guy act coupled with a bunch of embarrassing losses in meaningful games=We're the Champs!

Agreed!

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Post by vikingpitbull on Dec 5, 2020 12:08:05 GMT -6

Dec 5, 2020 7:36:50 GMT -6 comet52 said:

Watching that draft and seeing Rodgers keep sitting there waiting, I just got more and more worried that he was going to Green Bay. I was sick when it happened.

We had two first round picks prior to Green Bay that turned into Troy Williamson and Erasmus James, aka vomit and puke. Daunte's stats were mostly a product of having great talent around him. He was not lighting up the league or considered in the same breath as elite guys. He was more of a Stafford type. Looks good at times, screws up enough to never get the prize.

To say we couldn't take Rodgers at 18 is silly. Worst case if you're so in love with your mid-level Culpepper, you trade Rodgers. He was certainly more of an asset than either of the total busts we grabbed at 7 & 18 that year. It also would have blocked Green Bay's smart selection.

And my bet is that had the Vikings Drafted Rodgers we would have been hearing the same crap about not winning a Super Bowl. See, the Vikings until Zimmer never had defense good enough to do it even if they had Rodgers. Just like the Packers, who have had a good defense exactly one year of Rodgers tenure. The year they won the Super Bowl.

WTF they never had a good D?

What about a QB?

Brad Johnson
Tarvaris Jackson
Kelly Holcombe
Gus Frerotte
Christian Ponder
Donavan McNabb
Matt Cassel
Josh Freeman
Teddy Bridgwater
Matt Cassel

The only other guy was Favre.

So which one listed would you have rather had over Rodgers?

So you say it was the D? They actually had some pretty damn good Ds.in fact better than what Zimmer has had. Wasn't it basically a guy named Peterson and the Defense that made this team click?

Last Edit: Dec 5, 2020 12:11:18 GMT -6 by vikingpitbull

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Post by Raptorman on Dec 5, 2020 12:58:24 GMT -6

Dec 5, 2020 12:08:05 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said: