3 Michigan State players arrested on rape charges.

May 15, 2017 6:00:07 GMT -6 beckmt said:

May 14, 2017 23:26:34 GMT -6 Reignman said:

And do you think someone's life should be destroyed on probable cause and circumstantial evidence? Getting expelled or losing a civil suit doesn't ruin your life the way a criminal conviction could. But exactly, we got this thing called the scientific method and investigations. I'm saying we let it do it's job and hopefully it can find out what the truth is. It usually does when there's enough evidence. Whose fault is it if the victim doesn't come forward? Who should we blame for that? Perhaps we should be teaching women to come forward when they're raped? Sounds more productive than teaching men not to rape when ALL men already know rape is wrong. Everyone knows murder is wrong too, but it still happens, and murder and rape are always going to happen. Rape is an opportunity crime. The best prevention is reducing the opportunity or even increasing the punishment, which I'm all for. Child molestation and rape should be capital crimes IMO.

You seem to believe that unless it can be proven in criminal matter it did not take place, that is far from the truth.

No one is saying this.  At all. 

Recognizing that the accused have rights too does not imply that the criminal matter didn't take place. Yes, rape is a complicated issue, no one debates that, but that is not a good reason to justify ruining the lives of everyone who is accused of rape.  Not all of the accused are rapists. 

May 16, 2017 8:29:28 GMT -6 beckmt said:

May 16, 2017 7:36:33 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

No one is saying this.  At all. 

Recognizing that the accused have rights too does not imply that the criminal matter didn't take place. Yes, rape is a complicated issue, no one debates that, but that is not a good reason to justify ruining the lives of everyone who is accused of rape.  Not all of the accused are rapists. 

That may be true, legally.  There are a small number of regret sex or making up a story to make someone pay.  That is a known fact.  The flip side is that many rapes that were not reported immediately become hard to prove.  Also add in the number of moneyed or star athletes who have access to high powered attorneys that either make it go away or plead it down, you get a much lower number of cases that one would believe.

The bolded is what I take issue with. It's not a known fact.... and even if you are correct that it is a small number, it's still a number and still a problem, and it's a big reason why checks and balances are necessary.  Our entire judicial system was predicated on the idea that it's better for a few guilty to go free than innocent to be put in jail.  We've seen plenty of problems with that as it is (particularly with the rich/poor divide we've already discussed here), and forcing the accused to prove their innocence will put power in places it shouldn't be, changing that small number to a much larger number over time.

I get the issues behind it, but choosing not to report it immediately is precisely why the issues gets even more complicated (and yes I agree that the nature of the crime, a general lack of witnesses, and the he said/she said issues play in here too). However there is usually much more physical evidence if it's reported right away, and it makes it much more difficult to for the accused to present a case of reasonable doubt when there are obvious signs of physical trauma.  It also makes it much harder for the defense to make an argument along the lines of said number.