Snap Counts and Player Recaps

HarryHits22
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Snap Counts and Player Recaps Dec 8, 2020 13:24:10 GMT -6

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Post by HarryHits22 on Dec 8, 2020 13:24:10 GMT -6

Dec 8, 2020 12:57:05 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

Dec 8, 2020 12:48:02 GMT -6 HarryHits22 said:

I like using analytics from a strategic stand point, like Spielman's draft strategy. Strategy and execution are two different things though. Even if Spielman is using the analytically correct strategy in the draft to maximize his odds of success, he still has to pick good players. There is a skill to drafting and scouting that analytics can't account for, but that doesn't mean the analytics are wrong. If that makes sense

So it's basically still throwing darts.

I think analytics has more value to use from information gathered on the field then procedures behind a desk. I don't think he uses them correctly to identify nor hold accountable. I know Zimmer doesn't.

"It's throwing darts". Hypothetically speaking, yes, that's the entire purpose of the strategy, to account for the guaranteed error that all GM's have in the draft and to maximize odds of hitting. If you need to hit 180 on a dart board, would you rather have 3 high quality darts, or 1 high quality dart, a few crappier darts and 10 bargain bin darts that have sh*tty flights and dull tips? Even though the quality of the 3 darts is higher, your odds are much better with the higher quantity of darts you have, because your margin for error is greater. But that doesn't change the fact that it's still comes down to your ability to throw a dart.

vikingpitbull
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Snap Counts and Player Recaps Dec 8, 2020 14:08:12 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikingpitbull on Dec 8, 2020 14:08:12 GMT -6

Dec 8, 2020 13:24:10 GMT -6 HarryHits22 said:

Dec 8, 2020 12:57:05 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

So it's basically still throwing darts.

I think analytics has more value to use from information gathered on the field then procedures behind a desk. I don't think he uses them correctly to identify nor hold accountable. I know Zimmer doesn't.

"It's throwing darts". Hypothetically speaking, yes, that's the entire purpose of the strategy, to account for the guaranteed error that all GM's have in the draft and to maximize odds of hitting. If you need to hit 180 on a dart board, would you rather have 3 high quality darts, or 1 high quality dart, a few crappier darts and 10 bargain bin darts that have sh*tty flights and dull tips? Even though the quality of the 3 darts is higher, your odds are much better with the higher quantity of darts you have, because your margin for error is greater. But that doesn't change the fact that it's still comes down to your ability to throw a dart.

Or if you are drunk and can't hit the board you could have 100 darts and get nothing. Quantity vs quality fluctuate each and every draft. In some quality is much less so it's wise to do your homework and take less risk on less picks. In others it's less important if there is a deep draft as long as you pick inside the deep positions. Otherwise it's not always deep.

Also the talent has to fit the systems in place. Say the pundits say it's a deep draft at LT. Number wise maybe. Number wise that fit what you need say ZBS it may not be so. If you need a outside receiver vs slot and so forth.

The other side of the coin is how far of a drop of is the talent and that will have impact on quality vs quantity. It sounds good to say you have 10 picks vs 4 but not when you determine the drop off of talent isn't worth the extra picks.

It's almost a guarantee if Rick needs quality he picks quantity and when he should pick quantity he picks quality. Not quality in good quality but that has little to no drop off. Say Rd1 talent isn't much better than 2nd rd to 3rd rd. That's when quantity is important.

He has given away a ton of top tier talent over the years and that adds up over time. He often times gambles away high round picks for late round picks and we both know the chances fall off the later you pick.

People like to talk about the Diggs type picks but forget just how many he missed before he hit 1. Just take WR or OL or QB or DE and just look at it. His philosophy isn't working.

Last Edit: Dec 8, 2020 14:16:50 GMT -6 by vikingpitbull

PurpleKoolaid
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Snap Counts and Player Recaps Dec 8, 2020 16:37:05 GMT -6

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Post by PurpleKoolaid on Dec 8, 2020 16:37:05 GMT -6

Dec 8, 2020 13:11:51 GMT -6 HarryHits22 said:

Dec 8, 2020 13:07:01 GMT -6 PurpleKoolaid said:

So you still love and use them, but its hit or miss, you admit that. Lol you crack me up.

I mean, you clearly can't grasp what I'm saying, so I don't think I'm going to explain this concept to you over and over.

sry i so stupedd

whoskmoon
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Snap Counts and Player Recaps Dec 10, 2020 9:58:31 GMT -6 Minniman and vikingpitbull like this

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Post by whoskmoon on Dec 10, 2020 9:58:31 GMT -6

Dec 8, 2020 13:24:10 GMT -6 HarryHits22 said:

Dec 8, 2020 12:57:05 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

So it's basically still throwing darts.

I think analytics has more value to use from information gathered on the field then procedures behind a desk. I don't think he uses them correctly to identify nor hold accountable. I know Zimmer doesn't.

"It's throwing darts". Hypothetically speaking, yes, that's the entire purpose of the strategy, to account for the guaranteed error that all GM's have in the draft and to maximize odds of hitting. If you need to hit 180 on a dart board, would you rather have 3 high quality darts, or 1 high quality dart, a few crappier darts and 10 bargain bin darts that have sh*tty flights and dull tips? Even though the quality of the 3 darts is higher, your odds are much better with the higher quantity of darts you have, because your margin for error is greater. But that doesn't change the fact that it's still comes down to your ability to throw a dart.

If it is throwing darts, then Rick is giving up a chance to throw one dart at a board with a bullseye worth 50 points, to throw 3 at one that has a bullseye worth 10. He has traded out of rounds with multiple pro bowlers still on the board to pick up picks in rounds where there wasn't a single starter. That is the danger with his strategy. There are years where there isn't anyone worth drafting past the 5th round outside of some okay depth like a Weatherly or Stephen. Those players are nice to have but aren't the difference makers you need to build a championship.

Danchat
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Snap Counts and Player Recaps Dec 10, 2020 12:44:01 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan likes this

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Post by Danchat on Dec 10, 2020 12:44:01 GMT -6

Dec 10, 2020 9:58:31 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Dec 8, 2020 13:24:10 GMT -6 HarryHits22 said:

"It's throwing darts". Hypothetically speaking, yes, that's the entire purpose of the strategy, to account for the guaranteed error that all GM's have in the draft and to maximize odds of hitting. If you need to hit 180 on a dart board, would you rather have 3 high quality darts, or 1 high quality dart, a few crappier darts and 10 bargain bin darts that have sh*tty flights and dull tips? Even though the quality of the 3 darts is higher, your odds are much better with the higher quantity of darts you have, because your margin for error is greater. But that doesn't change the fact that it's still comes down to your ability to throw a dart.

If it is throwing darts, then Rick is giving up a chance to throw one dart at a board with a bullseye worth 50 points, to throw 3 at one that has a bullseye worth 10. He has traded out of rounds with multiple pro bowlers still on the board to pick up picks in rounds where there wasn't a single starter. That is the danger with his strategy. There are years where there isn't anyone worth drafting past the 5th round outside of some okay depth like a Weatherly or Stephen. Those players are nice to have but aren't the difference makers you need to build a championship.

You're making it sound worse than it really is. It's more like giving up a chance to hit the bullseye to instead hit a 40, 5, and 5. He's not taking 4th rounders and turning it into 5 7th rounders. And I think you'd find that a lot of the time the Vikings would just take the guy they did later - would you prefer them to take Alexander Mattison at the top of the 3rd round, or trade down 4 or 5 times and take him at the bottom of it? I believe we got some audio from Spielman & Zimmer saying that they were going to go with Gladney at #25, but then they traded down and still got him. What trade downs left great players on the board? I checked out the Jaleel Johnson and Holmes trade-downs (those pissed everyone off since Rick moved the pick from Day 2 to Day 3), and the only Pro Bowler they missed was HB James Conner, which was the same class as Cook.

I think the real issue here is that Spielman gets locked on a single player or position. In that aforementioned audio, Spielman and Zimmer seemed to have an agreement that they were going WR and CB with their 2 1st rounders. They always save a 3rd or 4th rounder for a D-lineman like Hunter, Johnson, Holmes, Wonnum, & etc. Perhaps they need to be more open-minded in those scenarios. Oh, and stop wasting late rounders on special teams players! (Osborn, Adams, Locke, Carlson, Cutting...)

whoskmoon
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Snap Counts and Player Recaps Dec 10, 2020 15:52:43 GMT -6 vikingpitbull likes this

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Post by whoskmoon on Dec 10, 2020 15:52:43 GMT -6

Dec 10, 2020 12:44:01 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Dec 10, 2020 9:58:31 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

If it is throwing darts, then Rick is giving up a chance to throw one dart at a board with a bullseye worth 50 points, to throw 3 at one that has a bullseye worth 10. He has traded out of rounds with multiple pro bowlers still on the board to pick up picks in rounds where there wasn't a single starter. That is the danger with his strategy. There are years where there isn't anyone worth drafting past the 5th round outside of some okay depth like a Weatherly or Stephen. Those players are nice to have but aren't the difference makers you need to build a championship.

You're making it sound worse than it really is. It's more like giving up a chance to hit the bullseye to instead hit a 40, 5, and 5. He's not taking 4th rounders and turning it into 5 7th rounders. And I think you'd find that a lot of the time the Vikings would just take the guy they did later - would you prefer them to take Alexander Mattison at the top of the 3rd round, or trade down 4 or 5 times and take him at the bottom of it? I believe we got some audio from Spielman & Zimmer saying that they were going to go with Gladney at #25, but then they traded down and still got him. What trade downs left great players on the board? I checked out the Jaleel Johnson and Holmes trade-downs (those pissed everyone off since Rick moved the pick from Day 2 to Day 3), and the only Pro Bowler they missed was HB James Conner, which was the same class as Cook.

I think the real issue here is that Spielman gets locked on a single player or position. In that aforementioned audio, Spielman and Zimmer seemed to have an agreement that they were going WR and CB with their 2 1st rounders. They always save a 3rd or 4th rounder for a D-lineman like Hunter, Johnson, Holmes, Wonnum, & etc. Perhaps they need to be more open-minded in those scenarios. Oh, and stop wasting late rounders on special teams players! (Osborn, Adams, Locke, Carlson, Cutting...)

A little unfair, but you are also making a pretty big assumption that the Vikings always got the guy they wanted when trading back. What if in 2017 the Vikings traded out of 4th with the Chiefs assuming George Kittle would still be available in the 5th when they picked again only to have him sniped by SF? It has to have happened at some point, and I just don't see the value gained making it worth the risk of losing a guy they really like.

Do you think the rigidness with how and who they draft has lead the Vikings to avoid trading up in a spot where they could get elite talent to avoid losing one of their many late round picks?

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Snap Counts and Player Recaps Dec 10, 2020 18:22:38 GMT -6 HarryHits22 likes this

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Post by Danchat on Dec 10, 2020 18:22:38 GMT -6

Dec 10, 2020 15:52:43 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

A little unfair, but you are also making a pretty big assumption that the Vikings always got the guy they wanted when trading back.

That's true, and Spielman has been on the record saying that he likes trading down when they have a handful of guys they'd be comfortable taking still on the board. My issue is that they clearly didn't regard Kittle as any more talented than the rest of the 5th rounders, rather than moving down being the problem. I suppose you could call it a symptom?

Dec 10, 2020 15:52:43 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Do you think the rigidness with how and who they draft has lead the Vikings to avoid trading up in a spot where they could get elite talent to avoid losing one of their many late round picks?

I think they don't like the risk of moving up when there are more guys on the board they like. For example, I wanted them to trade up for CeeDee Lamb, but that would have likely cost a 3rd / 4th + more, and Jefferson was still on the board. Maybe there's a fear of "let's not trade up in case he turns into Treadwell", which causes them to risk less by retaining more draft capital. They reportedly tried to trade up for DT Justin Madubuike in the 3rd round, but ultimately didn't - they would have likely needed to move their 3rd, top 4th, and more, and then you don't get Dantzler and Wonnum.

With the team in the shape that was in around draft time, they needed to go for quantity with how much talent left in free agency. 15 picks was unnecessary - having the 2 1sts and 3 4ths was a nice luxury, but all the 6th and 7th rounders were worthless.

Last Edit: Dec 10, 2020 18:28:29 GMT -6 by Danchat

wxman91
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Snap Counts and Player Recaps Dec 11, 2020 6:39:42 GMT -6 via mobile HarryHits22 likes this

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Post by wxman91 on Dec 11, 2020 6:39:42 GMT -6

He has given away a ton of top tier talent over the years and that adds up over time. He often times gambles away high round picks for late round picks and we both know the chances fall off the later you pick.

People like to talk about the Diggs type picks but forget just how many he missed before he hit 1. Just take WR or OL or QB or DE and just look at it. His philosophy isn't working.

Can you give examples where Rick has traded away high round picks for later round picks? The more accurate assessment seems to be that Rick is willing to move down a limited amount of slots to pick up an additional late round pick, but that doesn’t mean that he is abandoning the high round picks. And then, in certain cases, he does move up (e.g. Cook). If he misses on a pick (e.g. Treadwell), he misses, but I don’t see his draft strategy being a part of that.

Last Edit: Dec 11, 2020 6:40:14 GMT -6 by wxman91

whoskmoon
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Snap Counts and Player Recaps Dec 11, 2020 7:26:48 GMT -6 vikingpitbull likes this

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Post by whoskmoon on Dec 11, 2020 7:26:48 GMT -6

Dec 10, 2020 18:22:38 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Dec 10, 2020 15:52:43 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

A little unfair, but you are also making a pretty big assumption that the Vikings always got the guy they wanted when trading back.

That's true, and Spielman has been on the record saying that he likes trading down when they have a handful of guys they'd be comfortable taking still on the board. My issue is that they clearly didn't regard Kittle as any more talented than the rest of the 5th rounders, rather than moving down being the problem. I suppose you could call it a symptom?

Dec 10, 2020 15:52:43 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Do you think the rigidness with how and who they draft has lead the Vikings to avoid trading up in a spot where they could get elite talent to avoid losing one of their many late round picks?

I think they don't like the risk of moving up when there are more guys on the board they like. For example, I wanted them to trade up for CeeDee Lamb, but that would have likely cost a 3rd / 4th + more, and Jefferson was still on the board. Maybe there's a fear of "let's not trade up in case he turns into Treadwell", which causes them to risk less by retaining more draft capital. They reportedly tried to trade up for DT Justin Madubuike in the 3rd round, but ultimately didn't - they would have likely needed to move their 3rd, top 4th, and more, and then you don't get Dantzler and Wonnum.

With the team in the shape that was in around draft time, they needed to go for quantity with how much talent left in free agency. 15 picks was unnecessary - having the 2 1sts and 3 4ths was a nice luxury, but all the 6th and 7th rounders were worthless.

I am actually okay with not trading up in the 1st and 2nd, and instead moving down there. The guys available at 28 versus at 22 are pretty comparable, unless there is someone you really, really like.

It is when you get into the 3rd round and later where the quality players start to come few and far between that I don't understand that mindset. It just seems like trading up to get the guy you really like, when there are maybe 3 guys you really like left on the board, is the better move, rather than trading down and throwing a handful of darts at the wall.

vikingpitbull
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Snap Counts and Player Recaps Dec 11, 2020 9:25:54 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikingpitbull on Dec 11, 2020 9:25:54 GMT -6

2019

Vikings receive:
» 2019 third-round pick (No. 88; trade to Seahawks)
» 2019 sixth-round pick (No. 204; trade to Seahawks)

Vikings receive:
» 2019 third-round pick (No. 92; trade to Jets)
» 2019 fifth-round pick (No. 159; trade to Patriots)

Vikings receive:
» 2019 third-round pick (No. 93; trade to Ravens)
» 2019 seventh-round pick (No. 217; select CB Kris Boyd)

Minnesota moves up
Vikings receive:
» 2019 third-round pick (No. 102; select RB Alexander Mattison)
» 2019 sixth-round pick (No. 191; select S Marcus Epps)
» 2019 sixth-round pick (No. 193; select T Olisaemeka Udoh)

Vikings trade up
Vikings receive:
» 2019 fourth-round (No. 114; select G Dru Samia)

Vikings receive:
» 2019 fifth-round (No. 162; select LB Cameron Smith)
» 2019 seventh-round (No. 239; select WR Dillon Mitchell)

Danchat
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Snap Counts and Player Recaps Dec 14, 2020 13:34:28 GMT -6

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Post by Danchat on Dec 14, 2020 13:34:28 GMT -6

Week 14

Kirk Cousins - 79 snaps (100%) 24/37 for 225 yards and 1 TD, 5 rushes for 41 yards QBR 61.1, Passer Rating 90.5, PFF 76.1 Kirk was under duress the entire game. He was pressured on 22 of his 47 drop backs and sacked 6 times. There were times where he held onto the ball longer than he should. There were many more play calls that made no sense. It seemed like we were getting blitzed every down in the red zone. The coaching staff had no answers for it. We were getting crushed on the interior OL and needed something to relieve that pressure. Kirk scrambled very well to get a couple of nice first downs with his legs.

PFF went easy on Cousins, I don't think he did all that well. We had no answers to Tampa's blitzes and had just a single deep ball completed. Tampa played a successful "bend but don't break" game on defense.

Dalvin Cook - 54 snaps (68%) 22 carries for 102 yards and 1 TD, 2 catches for 8 yards (4 targets) Dalvin was pretty, pretty, pretty good yesterday. He was running at the best run defense with the terrible OL in front of him.

100+ yards against the Bucs? Now that's impressive. Unfortunately Derrick Henry is going to win the rushing title unless he get hurt, but Cook is clearly a top 2 running back in the league right now.

C.J. Ham - 40 snaps (51%) 1 carry for 0 yards and 3 catches for 22 yards (3 targets)

What other team in 2020 throws to their FB 3 times on the same drive? It worked, but it feels like our offense is stuck in the Ice Age at points.

Ameer Abdullah - 15 snaps (19%) 3 carries for 11 yards 2 catches for 10 yards (2 targets) Gave Dalvin some much needed rest and he ran decently. Abdullah is a good 3rd down back.

Mike Boone - 4 snaps (5%) 2 carries for 8 yards and 1 catch for 4 yards (1 target) All of Mike's action was in the 1st half.

They both looked fine, and should be given more chances to relieve Cook. IMO Boone should be getting more carries with the way we've seen him break runs before.

Chad Beebe - 34 snaps (43%) 0 catches (3 targets) I remember 1 drop from Beebe and another that was tight coverage and not really catchable for him. I don't remember the 3rd target. He never gets any separation. The only yards he ever has is when the defense forgets to cover him. (Other than that one game winning catch after he muffed the punt) PFF 37.7

Looks like that Panthers game was an outlier. Beebe is not a good WR.

Tajae Sharpe - 5 snaps (6%) one desperate pass on 3rd down on our last drive. It was overthrown by 5 yards.

A Sharpe signing!

Tyler Conklin - 45 snaps (57%) 5 catches for 40 yards (5 targets) Conklin made a couple of nice plays out there on offense. That includes a nice 4th down conversion on 4th and 6 to setup our 2nd TD. It was his best game I've seen. PFF 76.1

Conklin did his best Rudolph impression, and unlike Rudy, Kirk actually threw the ball his way. He has little to no ability after the catch, but he's got decent hands.

Irv Smith Jr. - 28 snaps (35%) 4 catches for 63 yards, 1 TD (4 targets) Irv was our best receiver out there and arguably our best player on Sunday. PFF 92.6

Irv barely played today and still had 63 yards receiving. Extrapolate that out to 100% snaps and that's 180 yards.

Dakota Dozier - 79 snaps (100%) Dozier is the worst starter on OL in the league. He is terrible and has always been terrible. The fact that he still plays over Brett Jones is inexcusable IMO. PFF 39.7 4 pressures allowed; 31.9 pass blocking grade

Dozier is still hot garbage, yet gets trotted out there every week. Perhaps Dennison should be relieved of his duties and be replaced with a coach who actually evaluates his line's quality of play.

Garrett Bradbury - 79 snaps (100%) We had pressure up the middle all day, but it wasn't on Bradbury. He graded fairly well in the passing game with 2 pressures allowed; 77.9 pass blocking grade

Bradbury continues his Jekyll and Hyde season. I did notice he made some good blocks in the run department, but his pass protection still needs a ton of work.

Ezra Cleveland - 79 snaps (100%) Rough day for Ezra. Really poor effort in pass blocking, but slightly better in run blocking. 8 pressures allowed; 32.0 pass blocking grade

Oof, he was just as bad as Dozier. Not surprising from a guy who profiled as a tackle, unfortunately.

Brian O'Neill - 66 snaps (84%) Potato was ok this week. He went down with an injury in the 3rd quarter. I will be interested in seeing an update on him. 1 pressure allowed; 58.7 pass blocking grade

O'Neill left the game with an injury in the 3rd quarter, but returned in the 4th quarter. He should be fine.

Rashod Hill - 25 snaps (32%) Came in for O'Neill when he went down. Played well considering he hasn't played much all year other than jumbo packages. Highest rated OL of the week PFF 78.3 and second highest grade on the team! 0 pressures allowed; 81.2 pass blocking grade

There appeared to be no drop-off from O'Neill to Hill. He's one of the better backup O-linemen in the league.

Defense

Ifeadi Odenigbo - 42 snaps (82%) Nothing from Odenigbo all day. Zero pass rush all day on Brady. Most of the time Tom gets it out quick, but there were a few plays where he held onto the ball and we got nothing from our top DE option.

Ifedi has proven he's not a starter in the NFL. If Hunter returns next year, I suspect his numbers will improve, though.

Jaleel Johnson - 30 snaps (59%) Does Jaleel ever do anything? He played less this week than in the past. I hope he plays 0 soon. PFF 40.3 is Dozier level. He is bad and should feel bad.

Jalyn Holmes - 29 snaps (57%) Defensive best PFF 69.4 because the rest of our defense is that bad. Don't ask me what he did to get that grade, because I didn't see him make a single play. 1 tackle for the day.

These two need to be taken off the field more often. They stink.

Shamar Stephen - 29 snaps (57%) PFF 64.0 I guess he was ok. He had 1 tackle and 1 tackle shared with Wonnum.

D.J. Wonnum - 24 snaps (47%) PFF 68.0 I thought Wonnum was our best defender out there. He had a nice tackle for a 3 yard loss to help hold Tampa to a FG late in the game and keep their lead to 12. It was our only tackle for a loss on the day. Wonnum was ok with a bunch of nothing around him.

Wonnum got to play more snaps than usual and was our best D-liner by default.

Armon Watts - 18 snaps (35%) PFF 63.4 Watts was our only DL to get a hit on Brady all day.

Hercules Mata'afa - 15 snaps (29%) Hercules and Jaleel shared a tackle after giving up an easy 1st down run on 3rd and short before half.

Jordan Brailford - 10 snaps (20%) Nothing to speak of after a monster game last week. Not much of an opportunity either.

James Lynch - 7 snaps (14%) He had a tackle towards the end of the 2nd quarter. Don't remember seeing him after that.

Brailford didn't get much more of a chance this week. Watts should probably start over Johnson just for the heck of it.

Eric Wilson - 51 snaps (100%) Wilson had 1 of our QB hits on a blitz and 1 of the 4 pressures we had all day. He also had our only pass defense of the game. It wasn't his best effort though. He wasn't flying around making tackles like he usually is.

Wilson is not the type of guy who can be a lead linebacker, and there's nothing wrong with that. He's simply not going to hold up on running downs as well as Kendricks, and he also gave up the TD to Gronk where he bit on the play-action.

Todd Davis - 51 snaps (100%) Todd was the one called for DPI on the Hail Mary attempt. It is a call that is never made. Did he interfere? Kind of.

PFF gave Davis a 29.3 grade, which is beyond terrible. He can't cover and was not a factor in the run game (2 missed tackles). Denver cut him for a reason.

Troy Dye - 21 snaps (41%) PFF 61.1 Troy was our 5th best graded defender of the day. Don't ask me what he did to get that grade.

Anthony Harris - 51 snaps (100%) PFF 44.4, 4th worst on the team. Harris was really bad all day. He was poor in coverage and run support.

This defense got real lucky that Brady was unable to put up 40+ points on them.

Cameron Dantzler - 51 snaps (100%) Gronk beat him early in the game, but Brady missed the throw (Ant Harris was late to help)

3 receptions allowed on 7 targets for 42 yards - not bad for a 3rd round rookie. He's just not ready to take on the likes of Mike Evans. Few are.

Jeff Gladney - 49 snaps (96%) Gladney was not that good today. He was beat by Mike Evans a few times. He did have 1 of our 4 QB pressures on the day. Their 2nd TD he got beat by Antonio Brown and then had a DPI in the end zone against Evans.

3 receptions on 5 targets for 31 yards - not bad, but that DPI call was back-breaking. Gladney's aggressive tendencies are unfortunately going to draw flags even when he's clearly not interfering. Playing CB these days is incredibly hard.

Chris Jones - 31 snaps (61%) Terrible, he got beat by Scotty Miller for a 48 yard TD and Tampa's first score of the game.

Boyd has been benched for Jones after his terrible game vs Jacksonville, but the Vikings paid for it with a bad game from Jones. He was just a practice squadee for the Lions, so this result should not be surprising. Zimmer has proven he can't get the most out of his CBs.

Our special teams were terrible again this week. We missed 1 PAT and 3 FGs. There is no return game to speak of. We did a decent job covering punts. Dan Bailey has lost all confidence in himself and unfortunately we don't have time to wait for it to return. We must put in a new kicker immediately.

Great news, only one part of special teams sucks now! Osborn got benched for the 3rd time after 3 straight games with a fumble, and we finally broke the streak as Beebe held on to the freaking ball for once. That would have been 5 consecutive games with a fumbled punt!

This team is quite the enigma, they're flat-out terrible on many parts of the roster, yet they play just well enough to win... and then something goes wrong and they don't. Even with Bailey's kicking catastrophe, Tampa should have won this game by a lot more with how open their receivers were getting.

Last Edit: Dec 14, 2020 13:35:24 GMT -6 by Danchat

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Snap Counts and Player Recaps Dec 21, 2020 14:46:34 GMT -6

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Post by Danchat on Dec 21, 2020 14:46:34 GMT -6

Week 15 Recap

Kirk Cousins - 68 snaps (100%) 24/35 for 271 yards, 2 TD 1 INT, 3 rushes for 25 yards, QBR 69.2 and Passer Rating 98.6.hen you look around the NFL and see other QBs there are two types of good QBs, QBs that are mobile and making plays scrambling/running and QBs that get rid of the ball immediately. Kirk does neither. He had a couple of nice runs, but that isn't what is going to win us games. The old guys have learned to get rid of the ball and the young guys are more athletic and making plays. With no pressure (24 plays) Kirk's PFF grade was 76.5, under pressure (17 plays) PFF grade 47.9.

Not a great game from our $33M QB. He's just not fit to be behind a O-line that can't pass block. He still makes good throws and locked in on Jefferson, but he isn't going to overcome the playcalling and line play.

Dalvin Cook - 52 snaps (76%) 24 carries for 132 and a TD, 5 catches for 27 yards (5 targets). PFF 72.0 Dalvin has 339 touches so far this year. He is 50 short of Adrian's team record in 2012. Derrick Henry has 1 more this year, but he has a shot at getting 2,000 yards this season and has a much bigger build than Cook.

Dalvin tore up a good Bears run defense, but at what cost? There's a decent chance we're wasting the prime of his career here. Feels like Adrian all over again.

C.J. Ham - 20 snaps (29%) PFF 50.0 Ham had a couple of nice blocks this week. I thought he was just as good as last week, but without the catches.

I don't get PFF's FB grades. Ham looked great blowing lanes open for Cook. IMO he's been worth the 4 year $12M deal he was given up to this point.

Alexander Mattison - 6 snaps (9%) 6 snaps for this guy. I am bitter about his play and I still that that is a ridiculously low amount. 1 rush for 1 yard and 1 catch for 14 yards (1 target)

Why did we spend a 3rd on Mattison to let him rot on the bench? Cook needs to be spelled more often.

Justin Jefferson - 66 snaps (97%) 8 catches for 104 yards (11 targets) PFF 84.0 We went to JJ often. He should've had a TD if it wasn't for Kirk's indecisiveness and then high throw in the 2nd quarter. JJ is our best WR now.

Jefferson has only been targeted about 7 times a game, yet has 1182 yards on the season. If you extrapolate his numbers to how often Diggs is thrown the ball in Buffalo (103 targets to 147), you can make that 1686 yards. Truly incredible for a rookie.

Adam Thielen - 64 snaps (94%) 2 catches for 11 yards and 1 TD (3 targets). How the hell did we only target Thielen 3 times in 64 snaps? He had two catches on our 2nd drive and didn't have another until midway through the 4th quarter.

The Bears had two CBs who had started a single game between them starting today alongside Kyle Fuller, yet they were rarely tested. Thielen did draw a DPI on Vildor.

Chad Beebe - 20 snaps (29%) 2 catches for 21 yards (2 targets). Chad had a couple of nice catches. Converted a 3rd and 5 on the Conklin TD drive and got us started on our last drive with a 12 yard gain. PFF 69.4 might be a record for Beebs.

Olabisi Johnson - 9 snaps (13%) No stats for Bisi. It appears as if he had a chance to catch that Hail Mary at the end. The replay shows the CB that got the pick tripped him up a bit just before the ball got there. He didn't get off the ground to jump for it or he would've had a great chance at winning the game for us.

We use 3rd and 4th WRs the least in the NFL.

Irv Smith Jr. - 56 snaps (82%) 3 catches for 37 yards (4 targets) 1 big drop from Irv. It was 3rd and goal from the 6 and Kirk scrambled to his right. Irv expected Kirk to try to run it in and Kirk threw him the ball. Irv was unable to catch the easy TD.

The Vikings' receivers rarely drop the ball (compare to the Steelers who had 13 drops in their last 2 games), yet when they do, it's always a crushing blow. Our offense has little margin for error.

Tyler Conklin - 45 snaps (66%) 3 catches for 57 yards and 1 TD (4 targets) It was nice to see a TE run someone over for a TD. Conklin had his best game I've seen him play. He is looking like a legitimate TE. I am excited about Conklin and Irv if they both can stay healthy. Rudy is on the way out the door if Conklin plays like this. PFF 69.9

I'm not sold on Conklin, but he's improved at the very least. He's still not a good blocker. There is no reason to keep Rudy on the roster, pricetag or no.

Riley Reiff - 68 snaps (100%) It was a little bit of a down week for Reiff. He is usually our rock on the left side. He gave up a sack after Cousins held onto the ball forever. 2 pressures allowed still isn't too bad against a Bears defense.

Mack wasn't 100% so he didn't get his soul ripped out again like in 2019.

Dakota Dozier - 68 snaps (100%) I have run out of words to describe how bad Dozier is. 7 pressures given up and a PFF grade of 39.5. This guy makes it hard to watch. If we don't draft an OG with our first pick I think we should fire everyone who has input in the picks. IDGAF IF DEION SANDERS HAS FALLEN TO US! WE NEED BETTER OL OR WE HAVE NO CHANCE. I am baffled as to why Dozier is still playing.

Since winning the LG battle, Dozier won the position for the rest of the year no matter how terrible he's been. He's starting to reach Samia-esque levels. Someone needs to be fired for this, but there is clearly no accountability for this O-line. Even scrubs like Pat Elflein or Tom Compton would be major upgrades from him at this point.

Garrett Bradbury - 68 snaps (100%) We were getting beat so much up the middle I couldn't tell who was missing the blocks. Have you seen us try to get a 1 yard run when we need it? Don't even think about running up the middle.

Bradbury is trending towards bust. When you spend a 1st on a center he better be good, and Bradbury is not.

Ezra Cleveland - 68 snaps (100%) 2 pressures given up by Cleveland. Is Cleveland good? No, but he is a lot better than our LG position. He is better than Samia or Elf. Average OL play makes it seem like Ezra should be going to the Pro Bowl in comparison.

Still conflicted on his position, but he's upgrade from all the other guards on the team.

Brian O'Neill - 68 snaps (84%) PFF 67.3 2 pressures given up by Brian. 5th best PFF grade on offense this week because of the garbage around him. We did run the ball very well outside to the right. Several of Cooks longer gains were a run outside of the RT.

Defense

Shamar Stephen - 52 snaps (81%) Not much from 52 snaps. The only play I really remember seeing him make was a tackle on 1st and goal from the 6. It seems the less you do the more you play on our DL.

Jalyn Holmes - 44 snaps (69%) The play after Stephen's tackle Holmes got his 1 tackle assist on Mitch inches before he scored. PFF 38.6 is lower than Dozier. That is how bad he was.

Holmes should have never made the roster. Stephen is being paid to stop the run, but isn't that great at it.

D.J. Wonnum - 43 snaps (67%) Wonnum got a bit more playing time with Odenigbo going down. He and Hercules were in on a nice stop to hold the Bears to a FG to make it 30-20 and kept us in the game. He also had a nice stop after we turned the ball over on downs to hold them to the FG to make it 33-27 and give us 1 minute to try to win it. He was ok.

Wonnum seems to be trying, which is nice.

Jaleel Johnson - 36 snaps (56%) Does this guy ever do anything? I think he got a sack a month ago. He had a couple of tackles and assist. Mostly after the RB had gained enough for a 1st down.

Jaleel is the most invisible player on this team. Gets driven back 5 yards on every play, yet the coaching staff doesn't seem to want to reduce his snaps.

Armon Watts - 26 snaps (41%) Watts played decently well this week, which means he gets less snaps than those who are playing poorly. PFF 76.2 was 4th best on our defense.
Hercules Mata'afa - 24 snaps (38%) PFF 81.2 Hercules was really good against the run this week. He and Eric Wilson got very nice tackle for a loss the play before our interception. The stop made them pass on 3rd down which led to what should've been a game changing play. We'll keep playing the other guys over Hercules and Watts because our coaching staff is as flexible as a telephone pole.

Too bad our coaching staff doesn't like to give more playing time to guys with potential over awful veterans.

James Lynch - 4 snaps (6%) I didn't notice him come in.

Eric Wilson - 64 snaps (100%) Wilson was ok. Too many times he is slow to help in the run game. He did have a pressure on Trubisky which was rare and 1/2 of our only tackle for loss in the run game.

Wilson isn't close to the player Kendricks is. He has a role as a starting LB in the NFL, but he's out of his element without Kendricks and with zero help from his D-line.

Todd Davis - 59 snaps (92%) Had a very nice sack on the first drive to force a punt. He also had a nice pass defense for a 3rd down stop. It was clearly his best game this year. I hope he can keep it up. I don't think we can depend on Barr next year and I don't want to waste another draft pick on a bad OLB. PFF 79.6

Nice, we finally got some good play out of Davis. Not sure if he's going to get a chance to be on our squad in 2021, though.

Troy Dye - 24 snaps (38%) PFF 39.5 Same grade as Dozier. He looks lost out there way too often. Just doesn't seem to be improving.

Dye is likely going to be a backup for a while... we'll have to check back in 2022.

Cameron Dantzler - 61 snaps (95%) PFF 90.7 and 1 yuge INT. Cam was our best player out there on Sunday. He was great. He made the play we needed and of course we then couldn't get 1 first down after. He was a shining star in the cloud of smog that is our team.

Dantzler looks to be the best CB we've drafted since Rhodes, and it happened in the 3rd round after 3 other 1st round CBs. Our poor CB scouting aside, it's clear we have a guy who can be a #1 CB. I didn't think he would develop this fast for a 22 year old, especially after a brutal concussion that originally looked to jeopardize his season.

Jeff Gladney - 64 snaps (100%) PFF 71.8 Weird that our 3rd round pick is playing better than our 1st. Gladney is coming along nicely though. He is really good at run support and I hoe he can develop into that Antoine Winfield role.

He's still got a lot of improvements to make, but the hope is that he can stick as the #2 and play in the nickel in nickel sets. Not a bad use of a late 1st rounder, but not ideal.

Chris Jones - 31 snaps (48%) PFF 34.4 was a low for the team. He got beat for a couple of TDs. He also misses more tackles than anyone on the team. That is when he at least tries to make a tackle. This guy sucks.

Zimmer sure has a lot of trust in Jones, a guy who got benched in Dallas and was a practice squad claimee. Clearly he has no interest in giving Harrison Hand or Cordrea Tankersley reps at this point.

Our special teams were terrible again this week. We were rightfully terrified of Cordarelle Patterson and tried a squib kick to open. They started on their 39. Our first two punts went 43 yards each. When Patterson wasn't out injured they seemed to always get it somewhere between the 30 and 35 yard line. That is a yuge difference in expected points.

Bailey might have made all his kicks, but he's still a subpar kickoff specialist.

Danchat
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Snap Counts and Player Recaps Dec 28, 2020 21:11:56 GMT -6

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Post by Danchat on Dec 28, 2020 21:11:56 GMT -6

Week 16

The Daily Norseman didn't do a snap count article this week, so I'll just have to do it myself. I'm only going to cover the guys worth talking about:

Dalvin Cook - 37 of 64 snaps (57.8%) 74.5 PFF

Dalvin made some good runs, but got pulled when we fell behind and wasn't much of a factor in the passing game. He's been much better than expected against top run defenses like the Saints, Bears, and Bucs. He did have his 5th fumble of the year, however.

Mike Boone - 3 of 64 snaps (4.7%)
Ameer Abdullah - 11 of 64 snaps (17%)

Boone vultured a TD and Abduallah went 13 yards on his one snap. Both of these two have looked fine when they've had the ball in their hands, but unfortunately they're both stuck behind Cook and Mattison.

FB Jake Bargas - 7 of 64 snaps (11%)

Bargas made a couple nice blocks, but didn't get the playing time Ham normally would. Fullbacks are rare these days, and backup FBs are even rarer.

TE Irv Smith Jr. - 56 of 64 snaps (87.5%) 71.3 PFF

After a rough start to the year and a groin pull, Smith Jr. is finally a full-time starter at TE and he looks the part. 6 catches for 53 yards and 2 TDs - he's proven to be an effective redzone weapon, replacing Rudolph's main skill. He graded low as a blocker. We have our starting TE for 2021, folks.

TE Tyler Conklin - 55 of 64 snaps (86%) 42.6 PFF

The Vikings are playing 2 TEs on almost 100% of the snaps. Conklin has gotten used heavily and has been a passable guy to throw to. PFF gave him a poor receiver grade, as he didn't get very open. I'd be more open to a 2 TE usage if Conklin was at least a better blocker. Too bad he's better than our 3rd WR! With that said, he's proven to be rosterable and should return as a reserve TE next year, with Rudolph hopefully moving on.

WR Justin Jefferson - 58 of 64 snaps (90.6%) 76.1 PFF

Jefferson didn't go nuts, but he was shadowed by one of the NFL's better #1 CBs in Marshon Lattimore. 6 catches for 85 yards against a guy like him is impressive for a rookie. The sky is the limit for JJ.

WR Chad Beebe - 23 of 64 snaps (36%) 50 PFF

Beebe didn't even get targeted. He's one of the NFL's worst #3 receivers. He's been the #3 WR for 12 weeks and has 18 catches for 157 yards to show for it. The Carolina game was clearly a fluke.

WR Bisi Johnson - 11 of 64 snaps (17%) 68.4 PFF

One catch for 13 yards is fine for playing 17% of the snaps. Bisi was immediately banished to the rarely used #4 WR once JJ usurped him, but he's been about as productive as Beebe despite playing almost no snaps. He's clearly the better receiver.

OL
LT Reiff 100% 55.5 PFF, 2 pressures
LG Dozier 100% 30.6 PFF, 4 pressures, 2 QB hits allowed
C Bradbury 100% 47.1 PFF, 4 pressures, 2 QB hits allowed, 1 sack
RG Cleveland 100% 74.1 PFF, 1 pressure, 1 sack
RT O'Neill 100% 81.6 PFF, 0 pressures

Reiff had a rare off day. Dozier is a disaster and quite possibly the worst starting guard in football. Bradbury is horrible in pass protection. Cleveland has been up-and-down, but has generally looked like a starting O-lineman, which is good. O'Neill had a lockdown game. Next Sunday should be Dozier's final game in a Vikings uniform. Here's hoping they don't find another abysmal replacement at that position.

Defense

DE Wonnum 63/75 (84%) 33.5 PFF
DE Mata'afa 37/75 (49%) 61 PFF
DE Odenigbo 36/75 (48%) 48.4 PFF
DE Yarbrough 18/75 (24%)
DE Brailford 4/75 (5%)

Wonnum was the only one to have a single QB hit in this group. It was a pathetic effort, as the DEs got pushed back by Armstead and Ramczyk. Mata'afa was the 2nd highest graded defensive player by proxy. Odenigbo may not have been 100% and played less than usual, but he hasn't been good this year anyways.

DT Stephen 53/75 (70.7%) 53.8 PFF
DT Johnson 49/75 (65.3%) 40.4 PFF
DT Watts 41/75 (54.7%) 51.9 PFF
DT Lynch 2 snaps

Stephen had a couple decent games early on, but he's been flat-out terrible as of late. He's been a bust as a free agent signing. Johnson might be the NFL's worst starting DT. Watts made 3 run stops, and I thought he deserved a higher grade. He's not good, but has been much better than Johnson. Lynch continues to go unused.

LB Wilson 75/75 snaps (100%) 32.6 PFF
LB Lynch 72/75 snaps (96%) 30 PFF
LB Nickerson Jr. 40/75 snaps (53.3%) 37.1 PFF

With 4 LBs hurt, the Vikings opted to give Blake Lynch a start out of nowhere. I thought Connelly would get a shot, but he's only being used as a special teamer. Lynch lad the team in tackles, missed 0 tackles, and I thought he played decently. Better than Dye, at least. Wilson was a disaster on a stick, as he can't stop the run if the D-line gets pushed back (they always do). Nickerson lucked into an interception, but he's barely a rosterable player.

CB Gladney 74/75 (98.7%) 32.5 PFF (7 for 7 145 yards)
CB Dantzler 52/75 (69.3%) 47.1 PFF (3 for 3 54 yards)
CB Chris Jones 43/75 (57.3%) 45.7 PFF (3 for 4 32 yards)
CB Harrison Hand 16/75 (21.3%) 93.2 PFF (1 for 2 31 yards, Int)

Dantzler had a rare down game, and got injured too. Gladney missed 3 tackles and was horrible in coverage. Plenty of good CBs have had bad first years, but Gladney was supposed to be decent out of the gate starting 40 games in college and already 24 years old. Too bad this team sucks at developing CBs. Jones is a bum who belongs on a practice squad, and Hand deserves more chances.

Harrison Smith and Anthony Harris combined for 6 missed tackles, at 3 apiece. Awful game for both of them, as they should be making most of their tackles.

Bailey missed another XP, and did an awful job with kickoffs. ST coach Maalouf should be fired once the season concludes.

giveu1guess BosViking Posts: 2,598 Likes: 1,091	Snap Counts and Player Recaps Dec 28, 2020 21:29:55 GMT -6 via Tapatalk Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by giveu1guess on Dec 28, 2020 21:29:55 GMT -6 Danchat it looked to me like Dantzler wasn't going all out in that game...... seemed to be jogging at times.....

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Snap Counts and Player Recaps Dec 28, 2020 21:42:15 GMT -6

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Post by Danchat on Dec 28, 2020 21:42:15 GMT -6

Dec 28, 2020 21:29:55 GMT -6 giveu1guess said:

Danchat it looked to me like Dantzler wasn't going all out in that game...... seemed to be jogging at times.....

I don't remember seeing that, perhaps he injured his ankle early on and tried to play through it? To be fair most the rest of the team didn't seem to be going all out.