Can you be supportive and critical?

comet52
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Can you be supportive and critical? Jun 26, 2020 8:40:09 GMT -6 suncoastvike likes this

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Post by comet52 on Jun 26, 2020 8:40:09 GMT -6

Jun 25, 2020 10:50:03 GMT -6 vikingbill said:

Jun 25, 2020 10:40:14 GMT -6 suncoastvike said:

Absolutely. Mike Tice was a meathead but a likable meathead. He had a .500 record with castoffs for assistance and coordinators and a joke of a bareboned scouting staff. What could that Meathead have done with a little more support?

More importantly he was our meathead!!!

I enjoyed the Meathead, he gave 3-4 rambling 40 minutes pressers a week where he talked about everything including the game plan lol. That guy should have gone into broadcasting, I guess he does do a podcast now anyway. He was a refreshing contrast to the typical NFL coach who gets on the podium and looks like he's trying to pass a bowel movement that's been stuck in there for a week. Unfortunately he was hamstrung by McComb's cheapness and his own shortcomings as a head guy. They might have brought him back to clean up this oline and in fact reached out to him when Sparano died but he's not having any more of Wilf after the way he was fired - Wilf ran into the locker room and excitedly canned him right after the last game. Couldn't even give him the dignity of a sit down in the office in private the next day like most decent owners would. Typical Wilf.

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comet52
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Can you be supportive and critical? Jun 26, 2020 8:44:20 GMT -6

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Post by comet52 on Jun 26, 2020 8:44:20 GMT -6

Jun 25, 2020 0:46:51 GMT -6 Burgundy&GoldViking said:

Its all about perspective and in my opinion the Vikings ownership is great compared to Dan Snyder and what he has done to a historic franchise.. I have been a Vikings fan for 2 seasons now so I do not share the pain of all the past failures like most of you do and I am optimistic because they are 50/50 in my book 1 average season and 1 season where they went to the playoffs and won their first round.. Not to shabby IMO

Again Perspective: You could be The Redskins (roflmao)

Question:

Would you rather be a fan of a team who won 3 superbowls and then have 20+ years of being a garbage team when in your heart you know what it was like to have your team be the champions, then have your hopes be utterly destroyed with no hope for the future un till your team owner dies that way new ownership can come in and try and fix it, who has no moral values and signs all sorts of past deviants, who are the joke of the NFL, I can go on and on with all the negatives

OR

Would you rather be the fan of a team who is consistently good enough to give you hope every season, whos owners genuinely seem to care about the team, who actually make the playoffs and win some games, whos stadium is full of fans every home game, who "experts" actually think they might have a shot every season, a team that seems to have values and care about the character of their players, who have a great football culture

That is some of the things I have noticed about the Vikings as a new fan.. They are easy to like and be hopeful for. *govikes*

I am still hopeful that the Redskins can get it together though

Dude I feel your pain but frankly, comparing anyone to Danny Snyder and saying "see we're better than that" is setting the bar so low I'm not sure there is a bar. We could just as easily say the U.S. is doing great because we're not Venezuela.

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suncoastvike
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Can you be supportive and critical? Jun 26, 2020 8:53:26 GMT -6

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Post by suncoastvike on Jun 26, 2020 8:53:26 GMT -6

Jun 26, 2020 8:36:20 GMT -6 comet52 said:

Jun 24, 2020 13:53:45 GMT -6 suncoastvike said:

Have Rick or Mike I'm giving extensions yet? There may be a house cleaning in the near future. Even if they did get extended we seen wit Chilly he really ain't afraid throw away a brand new contract if it ain't working.

I'm skeptical that they would ever let go of Rick - it doesn't jibe with their history/m.o. As for Mike, most NFL coaches never go into a last contract year, because let's say they win it all, then they are a coaching free agent with a newly minted ring. The cost will be a lot higher and it's likely they will leave since they are miffed they didn't get a real extension. Also it's harder to get assistants when the head guy is on a one year deal in some cases though they seem to have that covered right now, mostly by promoting from within.

As for Wilf canning Chili no pun intended, yeah he flew in very reluctantly to do the firing after Chili blatantly defied his authority by cutting Moss without permission. Wilf does not like change, if that hadn't happened who knows we might still have Chili running things here, can you imagine the misery? So yeah, if Zimmer or Rick does something completely off the wall in defiance of Wilf maybe he'd fire someone but otherwise, he loves the status quo, he believes the status quo wins a championship... "eventually". That could be 40 years from now or never for all we know.

I agree.
I've said it before. It is very rare a GM gets to hire a 3rd HC if the other two were fired. Rick might be that exception.

I do think he has a better chance then Mike honestly. I think the Wilfs are quite loyal really. Rick was there on the front line pushing when the stadium proposal got pushed through. I think that bought him a lot of loyalty from the owners. Maybe??

Edit: though technically Rick wouldn't be firing Mike if his contract just ran out.

Last Edit: Jun 26, 2020 8:54:46 GMT -6 by suncoastvike

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comet52
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Can you be supportive and critical? Jun 26, 2020 9:40:04 GMT -6 Funkytown and suncoastvike like this

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Post by comet52 on Jun 26, 2020 9:40:04 GMT -6

Jun 26, 2020 8:53:26 GMT -6 suncoastvike said:

Jun 26, 2020 8:36:20 GMT -6 comet52 said:

I'm skeptical that they would ever let go of Rick - it doesn't jibe with their history/m.o. As for Mike, most NFL coaches never go into a last contract year, because let's say they win it all, then they are a coaching free agent with a newly minted ring. The cost will be a lot higher and it's likely they will leave since they are miffed they didn't get a real extension. Also it's harder to get assistants when the head guy is on a one year deal in some cases though they seem to have that covered right now, mostly by promoting from within.

As for Wilf canning Chili no pun intended, yeah he flew in very reluctantly to do the firing after Chili blatantly defied his authority by cutting Moss without permission. Wilf does not like change, if that hadn't happened who knows we might still have Chili running things here, can you imagine the misery? So yeah, if Zimmer or Rick does something completely off the wall in defiance of Wilf maybe he'd fire someone but otherwise, he loves the status quo, he believes the status quo wins a championship... "eventually". That could be 40 years from now or never for all we know.

I agree.
I've said it before. It is very rare a GM gets to hire a 3rd HC if the other two were fired. Rick might be that exception.

I do think he has a better chance then Mike honestly. I think the Wilfs are quite loyal really. Rick was there on the front line pushing when the stadium proposal got pushed through. I think that bought him a lot of loyalty from the owners. Maybe??

Edit: though technically Rick wouldn't be firing Mike if his contract just ran out.

The only coach Rick ever hired was Zimmer. Wilf hired Chili, stating "We couldn't afford to let him get away to Green Bay" which in hindsight is hilarious. They interviewed no other candidates. Fran Foley was personnel guy at the time, Rick replaced him afterwards. They promoted Les Frazier the same way - no other interviews, Wilf made the call.

The best NFL owners hire the right people and get out of the way, realizing that their expertise in oil, real estate, or whatever business they own in no way makes them competent at running a football team. It took Wilf 7 years to realize this, to see that their hires sucked and their decisions were no better, and make Rick g.m., and he then hired his first coach in Zimmer. But only after they made him give Les 2 more years.

When Les still had some t.o.a.-based power he made the team bring in McNabb for 2011 over Rick's objections. The 2011 3-13 disaster was enough to force Wilf to concede that a real g.m. was needed starting in 2012 but even then Rick's desire to can Frazier was halted by Wilf and we had to endure two more years of Leslie before Zimmer aka a real coach could be brought in. Even though I have my issues with Zimmer he is miles ahead of Chili and Les in terms of ability. So give Rick some credit there.

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suncoastvike
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Can you be supportive and critical? Jun 26, 2020 9:43:10 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

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Post by suncoastvike on Jun 26, 2020 9:43:10 GMT -6

Jun 26, 2020 9:40:04 GMT -6 comet52 said:

Jun 26, 2020 8:53:26 GMT -6 suncoastvike said:

I agree.
I've said it before. It is very rare a GM gets to hire a 3rd HC if the other two were fired. Rick might be that exception.

I do think he has a better chance then Mike honestly. I think the Wilfs are quite loyal really. Rick was there on the front line pushing when the stadium proposal got pushed through. I think that bought him a lot of loyalty from the owners. Maybe??

Edit: though technically Rick wouldn't be firing Mike if his contract just ran out.

The only coach Rick ever hired was Zimmer. Wilf hired Chili, stating "We couldn't afford to let him get away to Green Bay" which in hindsight is hilarious. They interviewed no other candidates. Fran Foley was personnel guy at the time, Rick replaced him afterwards. They promoted Les Frazier the same way - no other interviews, Wilf made the call.

The best NFL owners hire the right people and get out of the way, realizing that their expertise in oil, real estate, or whatever business they own in no way makes them competent at running a football team. It took Wilf 7 years to realize this, to see that their hires sucked and their decisions were no better, and make Rick g.m., and he then hired his first coach in Zimmer. But only after they made him give Les 2 more years.

When Les still had some t.o.a.-based power he made the team bring in McNabb for 2011 over Rick's objections. The 2011 3-13 disaster was enough to force Wilf to concede that a real g.m. was needed starting in 2012 but even then Rick's desire to can Frazier was halted by Wilf and we had to endure two more years of Leslie before Zimmer aka a real coach could be brought in. Even though I have my issues with Zimmer he is miles ahead of Chili and Les in terms of ability. So give Rick some credit there.

Way to make me look stupid man.

Thanks alot...lol.

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comet52
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Can you be supportive and critical? Jun 26, 2020 9:49:14 GMT -6 suncoastvike likes this

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Post by comet52 on Jun 26, 2020 9:49:14 GMT -6

Jun 26, 2020 9:43:10 GMT -6 suncoastvike said:

Jun 26, 2020 9:40:04 GMT -6 comet52 said:

The only coach Rick ever hired was Zimmer. Wilf hired Chili, stating "We couldn't afford to let him get away to Green Bay" which in hindsight is hilarious. They interviewed no other candidates. Fran Foley was personnel guy at the time, Rick replaced him afterwards. They promoted Les Frazier the same way - no other interviews, Wilf made the call.

The best NFL owners hire the right people and get out of the way, realizing that their expertise in oil, real estate, or whatever business they own in no way makes them competent at running a football team. It took Wilf 7 years to realize this, to see that their hires sucked and their decisions were no better, and make Rick g.m., and he then hired his first coach in Zimmer. But only after they made him give Les 2 more years.

When Les still had some t.o.a.-based power he made the team bring in McNabb for 2011 over Rick's objections. The 2011 3-13 disaster was enough to force Wilf to concede that a real g.m. was needed starting in 2012 but even then Rick's desire to can Frazier was halted by Wilf and we had to endure two more years of Leslie before Zimmer aka a real coach could be brought in. Even though I have my issues with Zimmer he is miles ahead of Chili and Les in terms of ability. So give Rick some credit there.

Way to make me look stupid man.

Thanks alot...lol.

Sorry I'm not trying to do that - I appreciate your posts.

I'm just verbose on this subject because it ticks me off that I've invested a lifetime in this team without a ring to it's name and now I got an owner who blows p.r. smoke up everyone's ass while the team flounders around and never sniffs at a title. It's just my axe to grind, you are doing fine my friend.

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Can you be supportive and critical? Jun 26, 2020 20:20:50 GMT -6 Funkytown and suncoastvike like this

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Post by Danchat on Jun 26, 2020 20:20:50 GMT -6

Jun 26, 2020 8:53:26 GMT -6 suncoastvike said:

Jun 26, 2020 8:36:20 GMT -6 comet52 said:

I'm skeptical that they would ever let go of Rick - it doesn't jibe with their history/m.o. As for Mike, most NFL coaches never go into a last contract year, because let's say they win it all, then they are a coaching free agent with a newly minted ring. The cost will be a lot higher and it's likely they will leave since they are miffed they didn't get a real extension. Also it's harder to get assistants when the head guy is on a one year deal in some cases though they seem to have that covered right now, mostly by promoting from within.

As for Wilf canning Chili no pun intended, yeah he flew in very reluctantly to do the firing after Chili blatantly defied his authority by cutting Moss without permission. Wilf does not like change, if that hadn't happened who knows we might still have Chili running things here, can you imagine the misery? So yeah, if Zimmer or Rick does something completely off the wall in defiance of Wilf maybe he'd fire someone but otherwise, he loves the status quo, he believes the status quo wins a championship... "eventually". That could be 40 years from now or never for all we know.

I agree.
I've said it before. It is very rare a GM gets to hire a 3rd HC if the other two were fired. Rick might be that exception.

I do think he has a better chance then Mike honestly. I think the Wilfs are quite loyal really. Rick was there on the front line pushing when the stadium proposal got pushed through. I think that bought him a lot of loyalty from the owners. Maybe??

Edit: though technically Rick wouldn't be firing Mike if his contract just ran out.

I think it's been clear that Rick & Mike's fate are bound, just as their contracts have lined up the past couple years. IMO it would be bizarre if Zimmer was let go [contract expires, technically not fired] but Spielman gets an extension. The way I see it, they're either both getting extended or both leaving town.

Minniman
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Can you be supportive and critical? Jun 27, 2020 15:56:14 GMT -6 suncoastvike likes this

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Post by Minniman on Jun 27, 2020 15:56:14 GMT -6

Jun 23, 2020 14:07:57 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

I really enjoy the conversations with folks who have been both critical and supportive of the Vikings. I like seeing folks supportive in one aspect and then critical in another.

I am wondering what everyone thinks of the folks who are always critical or the folks are always over supportive of the Vikings? Are they just trying to stir the pot, are they real Vikings fans, etc?

I would think that all fans are both supportive and critical at the same time.

Being critical does not mean being negative; it is a critique that may be positive or negative as a result.

What I don't like is fans that just blow sunshine all day. They annoy me big time.

Logic is the beginning of wisdom - not the end.

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Can you be supportive and critical? Jun 27, 2020 17:12:51 GMT -6 Funkytown and legendsofthenorth like this

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Post by Danchat on Jun 27, 2020 17:12:51 GMT -6

Jun 27, 2020 15:56:14 GMT -6 Minniman said:

Jun 23, 2020 14:07:57 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

I really enjoy the conversations with folks who have been both critical and supportive of the Vikings. I like seeing folks supportive in one aspect and then critical in another.

I am wondering what everyone thinks of the folks who are always critical or the folks are always over supportive of the Vikings? Are they just trying to stir the pot, are they real Vikings fans, etc?

I would think that all fans are both supportive and critical at the same time.

Being critical does not mean being negative; it is a critique that may be positive or negative as a result.

What I don't like is fans that just blow sunshine all day. They annoy me big time.

What I don't like is fans who only have the capacity for negative comments, and when the team plays well, they just go silent and wait for something to be mad about. I know a lot of them, they'll come out of the woodwork like that Homer Simpson meme and bicker on and on.

I don't like the polar opposite either, but I have yet to meet many Vikings fans who are positive 100% of the time compared to the other side.

Deleted Ghosted Member Posts: 0 Likes:	Can you be supportive and critical? Jun 27, 2020 20:58:15 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2020 20:58:15 GMT -6 Jun 27, 2020 15:56:14 GMT -6 Minniman said: What I don't like is fans that just blow sunshine all day. They annoy me big time. You mean we're not going 16-0 in 2020?

suncoastvike Moderator Some say I'm too laid back. Really, I'm just too lazy to argue with them. Posts: 10,643 Likes: 7,202	Can you be supportive and critical? Jun 28, 2020 16:34:15 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by suncoastvike on Jun 28, 2020 16:34:15 GMT -6 Fans that are unrealistically optimistic have no credibility. Fans that never have a good word make you feel. @sses need equal measures of smoke and sunshine blow up them.
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legendsofthenorth
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Can you be supportive and critical? Jun 28, 2020 17:19:15 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by legendsofthenorth on Jun 28, 2020 17:19:15 GMT -6

Jun 28, 2020 16:34:15 GMT -6 suncoastvike said:

Fans that are unrealistically optimistic have no credibility. *blahblahblah*

Fans that never have a good word make you feel. *boom*

@sses need equal measures of smoke and sunshine blow up them.

Huh?

suncoastvike
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Can you be supportive and critical? Jun 28, 2020 17:38:55 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

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Post by suncoastvike on Jun 28, 2020 17:38:55 GMT -6

Jun 28, 2020 17:19:15 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth said:

Jun 28, 2020 16:34:15 GMT -6 suncoastvike said:

Fans that are unrealistically optimistic have no credibility. *blahblahblah*

Fans that never have a good word make you feel. *boom*

@sses need equal measures of smoke and sunshine blow up them.

Huh?

Yeah I get that alot.

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Minniman
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Can you be supportive and critical? Jun 28, 2020 17:44:51 GMT -6 legendsofthenorth likes this

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Post by Minniman on Jun 28, 2020 17:44:51 GMT -6

Jun 27, 2020 17:12:51 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Jun 27, 2020 15:56:14 GMT -6 Minniman said:

I would think that all fans are both supportive and critical at the same time.

Being critical does not mean being negative; it is a critique that may be positive or negative as a result.

What I don't like is fans that just blow sunshine all day. They annoy me big time.

What I don't like is fans who only have the capacity for negative comments, and when the team plays well, they just go silent and wait for something to be mad about. I know a lot of them, they'll come out of the woodwork like that Homer Simpson meme and bicker on and on.

I don't like the polar opposite either, but I have yet to meet many Vikings fans who are positive 100% of the time compared to the other side.

I can be positive in a loss or negative after a win. It depends on what I see.

I do have to say that I no longer have a wait and see attitude like when I was young. I don't have enough years left to wait and see. *beg*

Logic is the beginning of wisdom - not the end.

suncoastvike
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Can you be supportive and critical? Jun 28, 2020 18:24:21 GMT -6

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Post by suncoastvike on Jun 28, 2020 18:24:21 GMT -6

Let me try this way.
I can be very supportive when I have little expectations. Like going 7-9 in a 1st year of a new regime. When you have expectations and they come up short I'm less supportive and more questioning.

So currently this is where I'm at.
When it happen every other year. Have good season then 8 wins then good...my expectations are hard to gauge going in. I just feel we should have had a better idea where we are each year.
With all these new changes this season I have no idea what to expect. Going into a 7th season of this regime.

If being a Viking fan was easy ~ everyone would do it.