Grade the trade

vikingpitbull
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Grade the trade Apr 25, 2020 8:10:08 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikingpitbull on Apr 25, 2020 8:10:08 GMT -6

Apr 24, 2020 23:48:39 GMT -6 IAVike said:

Apr 24, 2020 23:38:19 GMT -6 skolman said:

I know you have been one of the negative and very critical ones tonight. I won't sway your opinion regardless, but like I said from a value standpoint the Vikings won the trade.

Why is it basically all of the NFL world feels like this was tremendous value for the Vikings, aside from the ones who consistently spew negativity on here?

I look at it from this point of view, if the Vikings traded the 4 picks the Saints did to move up 25 spots, I'd be pissed.

We obviously won't know who clearly won the trade for a few years, but I have zero complaints with it.

As for the Diggs trade, I think both teams won.

The Vikings recieved great value for a player that clearly wanted out, and the Bills recieved a top WR.

If you think the Vikings lost that trade, that says a lot about you.

1. I am not a negative guy at all, go look through my hundreds of posts defending the Vikings

2. My explanation is there is no such thing as value. It's a made up term.
The Bengals could have gotten 5 first round picks for Joe Burrow and they aren't trading out of that spot
Would you trade Mahomes for 10 first round picks? No way....

3. Diggs was a proven commodity. 1st 4th and 5th aren't proven commodities. If you say we won the trade you are just ignorant. No one will no for 3/4 years. I didn't want Diggs on the team anymore and still say this

I just have an issue with people saying a bird in the hand isn't worth two in the bush

2 and 3 have issues and could be explained many ways to fit different narratives.

skolman
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Grade the trade Apr 25, 2020 8:15:10 GMT -6 via mobile hokievike88 likes this

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Post by skolman on Apr 25, 2020 8:15:10 GMT -6

Apr 24, 2020 23:48:39 GMT -6 IAVike said:

Apr 24, 2020 23:38:19 GMT -6 skolman said:

I know you have been one of the negative and very critical ones tonight. I won't sway your opinion regardless, but like I said from a value standpoint the Vikings won the trade.

Why is it basically all of the NFL world feels like this was tremendous value for the Vikings, aside from the ones who consistently spew negativity on here?

I look at it from this point of view, if the Vikings traded the 4 picks the Saints did to move up 25 spots, I'd be pissed.

We obviously won't know who clearly won the trade for a few years, but I have zero complaints with it.

As for the Diggs trade, I think both teams won.

The Vikings recieved great value for a player that clearly wanted out, and the Bills recieved a top WR.

If you think the Vikings lost that trade, that says a lot about you.

1. I am not a negative guy at all, go look through my hundreds of posts defending the Vikings

2. My explanation is there is no such thing as value. It's a made up term.
The Bengals could have gotten 5 first round picks for Joe Burrow and they aren't trading out of that spot
Would you trade Mahomes for 10 first round picks? No way....

3. Diggs was a proven commodity. 1st 4th and 5th aren't proven commodities. If you say we won the trade you are just ignorant. No one will no for 3/4 years. I didn't want Diggs on the team anymore and still say this

I just have an issue with people saying a bird in the hand isn't worth two in the bush

You literally make zero sense.

twinssouth
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Grade the trade Apr 25, 2020 8:28:37 GMT -6 comet52 likes this

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Post by twinssouth on Apr 25, 2020 8:28:37 GMT -6

I gave the trade an A.

Shocked that any team would give up all their remaining picks in the draft to move up to 107, yet the Saints did it to draft a small school tight end. If they felt that strong about the player they should have drafted him earlier and kept the picks.

In my opinion you’d have to be crazy to turn the trade down. We are not talking about a higher draft pick, it’s the 107th. Payton was quite smug about explaining the pick which tells me he’s trying to convince himself he made the right call.

Overall, extremely happy with the draft.

vikingpitbull
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Grade the trade Apr 25, 2020 8:39:27 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikingpitbull on Apr 25, 2020 8:39:27 GMT -6

Well I want Rick gone but the biggest error for me so far was not taking a trade back that set up the Patriots to get a 2nd and 3rd rd pick.

What you have to be able to identify is situational judgment. In this draft of 2020 and our situation with holes that need to be filled because of misguided situational judgment before the draft much of this makes sense.

This draft is a flatline draft meaning there isn't much difference in talent level. From pick 1 to 255 position by position there isn't a huge difference in talent. Burrows isn't anymore a guarantee then Love Easton or Hurts etc etc. You cant just plug in a name and expect result.

With Covid19 uncertainties and our holes we have picks of quantity actually are a plus this year. The quality level is void so you have to hit and quantity makes sense this year. I'm just glad to this point Rick has been shut out on trading up because he has tried multiple times. He was saved by others this year.

I look at each draft in different ways by the factors that make them what they are. A huge issue with Rick for me is he doesn't gauge the situations well. If there is a strong class of WR he sits on his hands and gets nothing. We need a certian position he's hell bent and had tunnel vision and gets it no matter the strength of the position.

I will fault him more for his rd 1 choice then his rd 3 choice when I look back in a few years. This draft had value of quantity over quality and that is how you draft.

If you have a draft of say 75 top talent that can be widely identified as such then by all means take quality when you have 350 with little separation you take quantity. 2020 draft is more about quantity.

Now in saying that you still have to produce talent that works well for your team and not just pick to pick. IMO Ricks best pick was the Cleveland pick. The kid is just a direct fit so I can't blame him if he doesn't pan out. The CB and WR picks I will be all over him if they fail because they aren't true fits. To me the JJ pick was to cover the Diggs trade much like the Williamson for Moss pick. Not on the same scale but same.

I think people are forgetting just how many open roster spots we have and they do have to fill them the best they can. Well like I said months ago we had to fill through the draft not because it was the best talent but the only talent we could get. We are in the same boat today. Misguided situational judgment has put us in that spot. So blame Rick for that because that is his baby and he owns it.

IAVike
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Grade the trade Apr 25, 2020 8:40:05 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by IAVike on Apr 25, 2020 8:40:05 GMT -6

Apr 25, 2020 1:29:18 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Apr 25, 2020 1:05:49 GMT -6 IAVike said:

Oh yes there is. Starters in NFL by rounds
1st 30 percent
2nd and 3rd 30 percent
4th thru 7th only 26 percent
UFDA 14 percent
Studies show can be upwards of 80-90 percent of elite starters are rounds 1-3.

You say all this, and you don't see the irony of being concerned about losing Diggs (5th round pick) and gaining a 1st round pick? Diggs was a worthless day three pick, and the return was a 1st rounder (plus some). Shouldn't we be happy? Or is it that maybe many 4-7 rounders actually pan out and that's what we should be hoping for? Maybe don't so easily dismiss them?

Also, teams stick by their early draft picks longer than they probably would a later draft pick/UDFA, even if they are underperforming, so, I appreciate the data, but, it still doesn't make this trade look bad. We're still talking about 12 slots here in this draft. Sorry, but late 3rd is no different than early 4th. We just have to draft well and/or get more picks for next year. I'm optimistic.

This was a good trade.

1.
I didn't want Diggs traded. The statistics show we will lose on that trade. We all knew he was going to force a trade. And his attitude was the reason he was a 5th and not a 2nd rounder. Not talent realated.

2.
Its false logic to me to think trading a good pick to accumulate more picks to trade up for worse picks later.

Its all good though, you and both want the same thing. That super bowl ring👍

twinssouth
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Grade the trade Apr 25, 2020 8:44:55 GMT -6

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Post by twinssouth on Apr 25, 2020 8:44:55 GMT -6

Apr 25, 2020 8:28:37 GMT -6 twinssouth said:

I gave the trade an A.

Shocked that any team would give up all their remaining picks in the draft to move up to 107, yet the Saints did it to draft a small school tight end. If they felt that strong about the player they should have drafted him earlier and kept the picks.

In my opinion you’d have to be crazy to turn the trade down. We are not talking about a higher draft pick, it’s the 107th. Payton was quite smug about explaining the pick which tells me he’s trying to convince himself he made the right call.

Overall, extremely happy with the draft.

Meant 105th pick, not 107

vikingpitbull
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Grade the trade Apr 25, 2020 8:55:49 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikingpitbull on Apr 25, 2020 8:55:49 GMT -6

You also have to take into account say the Chiefs vs Vikings Andy can have luxury picks they just won a SB have 90% of their roster still intact so they can draft differently then Rick. He has no SB and about 35% of his talent back and is on his 2nd rebuild with the same HC and about 20 spots open with no cap. Andy took the leap got his QB by being aggressive and hitting. Rick just the opposite. I just dont like draft grades of any kind.

TAFKASP Hall of Fame Inductee Posts: 10,682 Likes: 9,117	Grade the trade Apr 25, 2020 10:01:10 GMT -6 Funkytown, NoresemanSam, and 1 more like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by TAFKASP on Apr 25, 2020 10:01:10 GMT -6 I'm indifferent to the trade itself, but I enjoyed all the b*tching and moaning that it caused!
	sudo dnf install beer

Funkytown
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Grade the trade Apr 25, 2020 10:21:51 GMT -6 twinssouth and IAVike like this

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Post by Funkytown on Apr 25, 2020 10:21:51 GMT -6

TRADES

The four players the Vikings selected were all very nice moves according to PFF’s evaluation, but the team sweetened the pot by executing multiple trades to collect more assets. They now enter Day 3 with more lottery tickets than anybody (13 picks), giving them the flexibility to move around for players they like or to parlay those for future assets in 2021.

According to PFF’s Trade Simulations, the Vikings won both of their trades handsomely, winning the trade with San Francisco (pick 25 for picks 31, 117 and 176) 59% of the time and the swap with New Orleans (pick 105 for picks 130, 169, 203 and 244) 62% of the time based on the 35,000 simulations PFF runs to calculate. Effectively, the Vikings significantly improved their chances of gaining more PFF Wins Above Replacement (PFF WAR) by accumulating draft assets and did so without major sacrifices in terms of the players they were able to land.

Link:

www.pff.com/news/draft-the-minnesota-vikings-crushed-the-first-two-days-of-the-2020-nfl-draft

diehardtwinsfan
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Grade the trade Apr 25, 2020 11:53:52 GMT -6

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on Apr 25, 2020 11:53:52 GMT -6

I haven't voted yet... not a huge fan, but not against it either...

I'll be more interested in what he does from here. If he's moving up back into the 4th to get some guys b/c of how deep this draft is... fine.

If he trades some of these for higher round picks next year... even better.

huthuthike
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Grade the trade Apr 25, 2020 12:03:02 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by huthuthike on Apr 25, 2020 12:03:02 GMT -6

Apr 24, 2020 22:47:23 GMT -6 BosViking said:

Apr 24, 2020 22:44:52 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

And when we move right back up?

Yep! Take the picks!

Rick can't help himself. Valuezzzzzz and tradezzzz are dangled in front of him and that's all he sees. Tunnel vision...... who cares that we have a million 3rd day picks already combined with needs which we need quality players (not 7th rounders) to fill them with.....

Rick doesn’t like to move up and take a player. He would rather move down to the no pressure zone and take wingers on players. Then brag what a genius he is if one can actually play the game. He ignores all the players that can play he dropped past and so do most Vikings fans.

Danchat
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Grade the trade Apr 25, 2020 14:00:58 GMT -6

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Post by Danchat on Apr 25, 2020 14:00:58 GMT -6

Apr 25, 2020 12:03:02 GMT -6 huthuthike said:

Apr 24, 2020 22:47:23 GMT -6 BosViking said:

Rick can't help himself. Valuezzzzzz and tradezzzz are dangled in front of him and that's all he sees. Tunnel vision...... who cares that we have a million 3rd day picks already combined with needs which we need quality players (not 7th rounders) to fill them with.....

Rick doesn’t like to move up and take a player. He would rather move down to the no pressure zone and take wingers on players. Then brag what a genius he is if one can actually play the game. He ignores all the players that can play he dropped past and so do most Vikings fans.

It sure seems to me most Vikings fans hate all the trading down and complain about the players they skip over. YMMV, I suppose.

vikingpwr
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Grade the trade Apr 25, 2020 14:16:46 GMT -6

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Post by vikingpwr on Apr 25, 2020 14:16:46 GMT -6

Apr 25, 2020 14:00:58 GMT -6 Danchat said:

most Vikings fans hate all the trading down and complain about the players they skip over

because they think they're smarter than everyone else...including all the NFL scouts, coaches and GMs. *loling*

I picture all them eagerly waiting for the grades to come out so they could justify their takes on this crapshoot they call a draft.

Last Edit: Apr 25, 2020 14:18:58 GMT -6 by vikingpwr

Funkytown Owner Purple Pain Big Dog Posts: 67,661 Likes: 31,587 Fan Since: 1998	Grade the trade Apr 25, 2020 17:35:43 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Funkytown on Apr 25, 2020 17:35:43 GMT -6

ozzvic Hall of Fame Candidate Posts: 7,689 Likes: 860	Grade the trade Apr 25, 2020 17:45:37 GMT -6 via mobile Danchat and NoresemanSam like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by ozzvic on Apr 25, 2020 17:45:37 GMT -6 Apr 25, 2020 17:35:43 GMT -6 Funkytown said: Remember when people were mad in August when Rick wasted a 5th on a kicker for 2 weeks, yea that 5th really came back to bite us