OFFICIAL: Diggs Traded to Bills

whoskmoon
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OFFICIAL: Diggs Traded to Bills Apr 17, 2020 18:19:15 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Apr 17, 2020 18:19:15 GMT -6

Apr 17, 2020 15:38:19 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Apr 17, 2020 4:27:24 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

You care what he did. I was pointing out Cousins' accuracy improved since his second season to someone who said a 2nd year QB doesn't improve on their accuracy, and it bothered you. Probably because you have some QB insecurities and anything even remotely negative said about Cousins makes you feel bad, but only you know the real reason.

You're 100% wrong and have absolutely no friggin idea what bothers me or makes me feel bad when it comes to Kirk Cousins. Not only that, I could care less what he did in Washington prior to being a Viking and I've said that many, many times since we signed him in 2018. You goading me with this won't get the reaction your looking for pal. We're getting some of the best play from the QB position right now so why would I have any insecurities about what you say about Kirk Cousins? Your constant criticism of Kirk Cousins provides me with plenty of things to discuss and debate. Considering he's the starting QB of my favorite team NOW I'm going to discuss and or debate the things said about him. Negative or otherwise. That's what we do on here.

Why didn't you compare Allen to other QBs who actually played more than 3 games in their first two seasons?

Lamar Jackson started 22 games 63.7 Cmp%.
Baker Mayfield started 29 games 61.5 Cmp%.
Sam Darnold started 26 games 59.9 Cmp%.

Josh Allen better improve his accuracy with Stefon Diggs on the team or it won't be long before the Bills start looking for another QB. I wish him luck. He's seems to be a decent pick so far.

If I were arguing Allen was an accurate QB for a 2nd year QB, I would have compared him to his draft class. He was not accurate for a 2nd year QB though, and I wasn't trying to make that point.

Instead I was pointing out that QBs who are inaccurate in their 2nd season can become very accurate as their careers progress. I did that by comparing him to the very QB a previous poster had just compared Allen's accuracy too.

It wasn't even a slam against Cousins and you still took it that way...because you are hyper sensitive about the QB.

IAVike
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OFFICIAL: Diggs Traded to Bills Apr 17, 2020 18:19:48 GMT -6 via mobile vikingpwr likes this

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Post by IAVike on Apr 17, 2020 18:19:48 GMT -6

Apr 17, 2020 18:11:02 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Apr 17, 2020 16:50:03 GMT -6 BosViking said:

Kirk doesn't win anything and chokes for many seasons in a row.... but this year he will break the trend and lead us to a Superbowl.

I sure as sh1t hope Kirk leads us to a SB win!!!

Give me the narrative if we won the Superbowl and here were the stats for Kirk in the game
20 for 27
221 yards
1 TD

Hahaha. There would be a 500 page thread back and forth about Kirk

vikingpwr Living Legend Posts: 21,398 Likes: 4,607	OFFICIAL: Diggs Traded to Bills Apr 17, 2020 18:29:59 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by vikingpwr on Apr 17, 2020 18:29:59 GMT -6 Apr 17, 2020 18:19:15 GMT -6 whoskmoon said: and I wasn't trying to make that point. You don't know what point you were trying to make.

whoskmoon
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OFFICIAL: Diggs Traded to Bills Apr 17, 2020 18:34:43 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Apr 17, 2020 18:34:43 GMT -6

Apr 17, 2020 17:09:27 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Apr 17, 2020 16:50:03 GMT -6 BosViking said:

So let me get this right VP......

Kirk doesn't win anything and chokes for many seasons in a row.... but this year he will break the trend and lead us to a Superbowl.

Allen isn't very accurate for 4 years in a row..... but this year he will not break the trend and it will continue?

Lmao

Most QB's don't increase their completion percentage by much over the years. Allen may some day get up to 62%, but I would put that as his upper limit. I believe he will reside around 60% for his career.

I did some maths and this isn't true.

Since 1990, there have only been 18 QBs out of 57 with 20+ starts who have a higher than 60% completion percentage for their combined first 2 seasons.

Manning X 2, Ryan, Luck and Alex Smith all had worse than 60%.

The top 3 were surprising, anyone want to guess?

Guys with completion percentages over 60 with 60+ starts in years 3+

40 out of 75.

Matt Ryan, Peyton Manning, Alex Smith, Eli Manning all had completion percentages skyrocket up in their 3rd seasons and beyond.

2 of the top 3 were surprising with this one. Everyone can guess #1, but I wonder if anyone will get 2 and 3?

whoskmoon
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OFFICIAL: Diggs Traded to Bills Apr 17, 2020 18:36:35 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Apr 17, 2020 18:36:35 GMT -6

Apr 17, 2020 18:29:59 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Apr 17, 2020 18:19:15 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

and I wasn't trying to make that point.

You don't know what point you were trying to make. *help*

I do. You didn't because you saw something negative about Cousins in his 2nd season and Cousins love clouded your reading comprehension.

IAVike
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OFFICIAL: Diggs Traded to Bills Apr 17, 2020 18:38:48 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by IAVike on Apr 17, 2020 18:38:48 GMT -6

Apr 17, 2020 18:34:43 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Apr 17, 2020 17:09:27 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Most QB's don't increase their completion percentage by much over the years. Allen may some day get up to 62%, but I would put that as his upper limit. I believe he will reside around 60% for his career.

I did some maths and this isn't true.

Since 1990, there have only been 18 QBs out of 57 with 20+ starts who have a higher than 60% completion percentage for their combined first 2 seasons.

Manning X 2, Ryan, Luck and Alex Smith all had worse than 60%.

The top 3 were surprising, anyone want to guess?

Guys with completion percentages over 60 with 60+ starts in years 3+

40 out of 75.

Matt Ryan, Peyton Manning, Alex Smith, Eli Manning all had completion percentages skyrocket up in their 3rd seasons and beyond.

2 of the top 3 were surprising with this one. Everyone can guess #1, but I wonder if anyone will get 2 and 3?

Your math isn't surprising at all. What are you saying though? That Allen is going to be a 60% or above next year because 53% of qbs have in the last 30 years?

NoresemanSam
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OFFICIAL: Diggs Traded to Bills Apr 17, 2020 18:40:02 GMT -6

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Post by NoresemanSam on Apr 17, 2020 18:40:02 GMT -6

Apr 17, 2020 18:11:02 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Apr 17, 2020 16:50:03 GMT -6 BosViking said:

Kirk doesn't win anything and chokes for many seasons in a row.... but this year he will break the trend and lead us to a Superbowl.

I sure as sh1t hope Kirk leads us to a SB win!!!

Doesn't everybody?

"There is no one most valuable Viking. There are 40 most valuable Vikings" - Joe Kapp upon refusing to accept the team MVP award

vikingpwr
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OFFICIAL: Diggs Traded to Bills Apr 17, 2020 19:03:27 GMT -6

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Post by vikingpwr on Apr 17, 2020 19:03:27 GMT -6

Apr 17, 2020 18:38:48 GMT -6 IAVike said:

Apr 17, 2020 18:34:43 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

I did some maths and this isn't true.

Since 1990, there have only been 18 QBs out of 57 with 20+ starts who have a higher than 60% completion percentage for their combined first 2 seasons.

Manning X 2, Ryan, Luck and Alex Smith all had worse than 60%.

The top 3 were surprising, anyone want to guess?

Guys with completion percentages over 60 with 60+ starts in years 3+

40 out of 75.

Matt Ryan, Peyton Manning, Alex Smith, Eli Manning all had completion percentages skyrocket up in their 3rd seasons and beyond.

2 of the top 3 were surprising with this one. Everyone can guess #1, but I wonder if anyone will get 2 and 3?

Your math isn't surprising at all. What are you saying though? That Allen is going to be a 60% or above next year because 53% of qbs have in the last 30 years?

Forget the math! If trading for Stefon Diggs, one of the better WRs in the league, doesn't help Josh Allen with his lack of accuracy whoskmoon will find something else to justify his point....whatever that may be.

Do you think Buffalo paid to much for Stefon Diggs?

IAVike
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OFFICIAL: Diggs Traded to Bills Apr 17, 2020 19:10:47 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by IAVike on Apr 17, 2020 19:10:47 GMT -6

Apr 17, 2020 19:03:27 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Apr 17, 2020 18:38:48 GMT -6 IAVike said:

Your math isn't surprising at all. What are you saying though? That Allen is going to be a 60% or above next year because 53% of qbs have in the last 30 years?

Forget the math! If trading for Stefon Diggs, one of the better WRs in the league, doesn't help Josh Allen with his lack of accuracy whoskmoon will find something else to justify his point....whatever that may be.

Do you think Buffalo paid to much for Stefon Diggs?

Nope. I believe in three things
1. It is really hard to find really talented players
2. When you find one, pay to keep them
3. Do everything you can to get proven talent.

vikingpwr
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OFFICIAL: Diggs Traded to Bills Apr 17, 2020 19:45:04 GMT -6

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Post by vikingpwr on Apr 17, 2020 19:45:04 GMT -6

Apr 17, 2020 19:10:47 GMT -6 IAVike said:

Apr 17, 2020 19:03:27 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Forget the math! If trading for Stefon Diggs, one of the better WRs in the league, doesn't help Josh Allen with his lack of accuracy whoskmoon will find something else to justify his point....whatever that may be.

Do you think Buffalo paid to much for Stefon Diggs?

Nope. I believe in three things
1. It is really hard to find really talented players
2. When you find one, pay to keep them
3. Do everything you can to get proven talent.

Good points.

What are your thoughts on our offense without Diggs. Will Kubiak and the offense be more or less successful?

IAVike
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OFFICIAL: Diggs Traded to Bills Apr 17, 2020 19:56:23 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by IAVike on Apr 17, 2020 19:56:23 GMT -6

Apr 17, 2020 19:45:04 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Apr 17, 2020 19:10:47 GMT -6 IAVike said:

Nope. I believe in three things
1. It is really hard to find really talented players
2. When you find one, pay to keep them
3. Do everything you can to get proven talent.

Good points.

What are your thoughts on our offense without Diggs. Will Kubiak and the offense be more or less successful?

I think we are a long way of what our final players will be, so hard to answer. You?

whoskmoon
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OFFICIAL: Diggs Traded to Bills Apr 17, 2020 20:25:20 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by whoskmoon on Apr 17, 2020 20:25:20 GMT -6

Apr 17, 2020 18:38:48 GMT -6 IAVike said:

Apr 17, 2020 18:34:43 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

I did some maths and this isn't true.

Since 1990, there have only been 18 QBs out of 57 with 20+ starts who have a higher than 60% completion percentage for their combined first 2 seasons.

Manning X 2, Ryan, Luck and Alex Smith all had worse than 60%.

The top 3 were surprising, anyone want to guess?

Guys with completion percentages over 60 with 60+ starts in years 3+

40 out of 75.

Matt Ryan, Peyton Manning, Alex Smith, Eli Manning all had completion percentages skyrocket up in their 3rd seasons and beyond.

2 of the top 3 were surprising with this one. Everyone can guess #1, but I wonder if anyone will get 2 and 3?

Your math isn't surprising at all. What are you saying though? That Allen is going to be a 60% or above next year because 53% of qbs have in the last 30 years?

Not necessarily, but the numbers prove it isn't impossible or even unlikely. Diggs should help him improve and if he doesn't Buffalo will be moving on from Allen with a very good receiving Corp for a new rookie to throw too.

vikingpwr
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OFFICIAL: Diggs Traded to Bills Apr 18, 2020 0:00:27 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

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Post by vikingpwr on Apr 18, 2020 0:00:27 GMT -6

Apr 17, 2020 19:56:23 GMT -6 IAVike said:

Apr 17, 2020 19:45:04 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

Good points.

What are your thoughts on our offense without Diggs. Will Kubiak and the offense be more or less successful?

I think we are a long way of what our final players will be, so hard to answer. You?

Oh definitely, the offense is not yet set on the final 11, but this is what I see:

First and foremost....I liked Stefon Diggs. He's a very good WR and I loved watching him play in purple, but as good as Diggs is I don't think our offense will miss him or his production this year as much as some fans think.

We have a lot of talent in Cousins, Cook, Thielen, Mattison, Irv, Rudolph, Bisi, Boone, Sharpe and don't forget CJ Ham. Kubiak has plenty to work with. The Kubiak signing IMO is so overlooked. Having him in the draft process is a big+! The first 4 players in last years draft should give you a hint of what kind of influence this guy has on our offense. This year should yield a few more players for him to work into our offense. I believe our offense will be better than last years and this is why:

OC:
Kubiak......enough said. Spielman and Zimmer will let Kubiak do his thing on that side of the ball and will surely help in getting him the right players in this years draft, much like last draft. Kubiak's offense was the highest scoring unit since Zimmer was hired in 2014. That should tell you something.

OL/running coordinator
Dennison will likely get another high talent O-lineman to plug-in-play and I'm guessing the pass blocking will improve. Ricky has signed a OL coach and given him some higher draft picks to build with. I can realistically see 4 players that we drafted starting on the OL next year. O'Neil, Bradbury, Samia and a draft pick this year. Everybody wanted Ricky to invest in the OL and it looks like he finally did.

That's my optimistic outlook on our 2020 Vikings offense. What do you think?

diehardtwinsfan
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OFFICIAL: Diggs Traded to Bills Apr 18, 2020 8:41:19 GMT -6

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on Apr 18, 2020 8:41:19 GMT -6

Apr 17, 2020 18:19:48 GMT -6 IAVike said:

Apr 17, 2020 18:11:02 GMT -6 vikingpwr said:

I sure as sh1t hope Kirk leads us to a SB win!!!

Give me the narrative if we won the Superbowl and here were the stats for Kirk in the game
20 for 27
221 yards
1 TD

Hahaha. There would be a 500 page thread back and forth about Kirk

and those would be better stats than what Brady had for his first SB MVP :)

diehardtwinsfan
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OFFICIAL: Diggs Traded to Bills Apr 18, 2020 8:46:57 GMT -6 Reignman likes this

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on Apr 18, 2020 8:46:57 GMT -6

Apr 17, 2020 18:34:43 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Apr 17, 2020 17:09:27 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Most QB's don't increase their completion percentage by much over the years. Allen may some day get up to 62%, but I would put that as his upper limit. I believe he will reside around 60% for his career.

I did some maths and this isn't true.

Since 1990, there have only been 18 QBs out of 57 with 20+ starts who have a higher than 60% completion percentage for their combined first 2 seasons.

Manning X 2, Ryan, Luck and Alex Smith all had worse than 60%.

The top 3 were surprising, anyone want to guess?

Guys with completion percentages over 60 with 60+ starts in years 3+

40 out of 75.

Matt Ryan, Peyton Manning, Alex Smith, Eli Manning all had completion percentages skyrocket up in their 3rd seasons and beyond.

2 of the top 3 were surprising with this one. Everyone can guess #1, but I wonder if anyone will get 2 and 3?

Paging Reignman, this sounds like a stat for you.

I think the issue I have using completion percentage is that it really doesn't tell how those completions are being made. You can get a lot of completed short passes to check down options and guys running shallow routes. It won't move the ball. To that extent, I'm not surprised that guys like Manning, Ryan, Luck, and Smith don't hit the magic 60% mark or whatever we're debating. They will allowed to air it out a bit more.

I do agree that the accuracy comes with time. Not going to argue that. I'd think that everyone would improve on that category at least at some extent until they hit a certain age on average. So can Allen improve? Sure. The question is will he and how much? I suspect most of the guys you mentioned were far more accurate than Allen in college. And like it or not, NFL pressure makes it really hard to improve on those numbers. The base that you're building off of matters.

For the record, Allen is the QB in that draft I wouldn't have touched. While I do think accuracy can improve over time, I don't think it's something that can be taught reasonably well. And QBs to be successful in the NFL, need certain skills that aren't easily coached up.