DN: Vikings Offseason Plan v1.0

vikingpitbull
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DN: Vikings Offseason Plan v1.0 Jan 27, 2020 16:34:14 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikingpitbull on Jan 27, 2020 16:34:14 GMT -6

Jan 27, 2020 16:14:39 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Jan 27, 2020 14:50:22 GMT -6 specialk28 said:

Well for one I don't know what the rules are moving guaranteed money around on contracts going into the final year of a CBA. Like this year there's no difference for post June 1 cuts because of that. But if you're talking about the restructuring where they just pay out guaranteed money differently they aren't going to save the amounts this guy is listing.

It's also just kicking the can down the road which we've already done. Barr also is extremely back loaded already so that we could fit him in last year.

Regardless of where you rank Waynes, he's not taking less than $10M a year.

I believe they're talking about moving the unguaranteed money. Those restructures look possible according to Spotrac's roster managment simulator, though for Diggs, his 2020 salary fully guarantees on March 20th so they might not be able to restructure with him.

I could see a bit less than $10M a year. Currently the >$10M crowd would put Waynes in the Haden/Hayward/Slay range... which would be quite the overpay. But I'm not interested in re-signing him in the first place.

You don't move unguaranteed money without giving more guaranteed money and back load them. That isn't a good option for the team and I would never ever want that. I would also argue you don't restructure underperforming aging vets. If they suck at 10 mill who wants them even if they suck for 6 mill. You either trade them or out right cut em and take your lumps now vs later.

The problem with that is you just opened up more uncertainty and will the savings really be a savings if you fall back in talent.

Last Edit: Jan 27, 2020 16:36:05 GMT -6 by vikingpitbull

vikingpwr
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DN: Vikings Offseason Plan v1.0 Jan 27, 2020 17:12:23 GMT -6

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Post by vikingpwr on Jan 27, 2020 17:12:23 GMT -6

Jan 27, 2020 16:34:14 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

Jan 27, 2020 16:14:39 GMT -6 Danchat said:

I believe they're talking about moving the unguaranteed money. Those restructures look possible according to Spotrac's roster managment simulator, though for Diggs, his 2020 salary fully guarantees on March 20th so they might not be able to restructure with him.

I could see a bit less than $10M a year. Currently the >$10M crowd would put Waynes in the Haden/Hayward/Slay range... which would be quite the overpay. But I'm not interested in re-signing him in the first place.

You don't move unguaranteed money without giving more guaranteed money and back load them. That isn't a good option for the team and I would never ever want that. I would also argue you don't restructure underperforming aging vets. If they suck at 10 mill who wants them even if they suck for 6 mill. You either trade them or out right cut em and take your lumps now vs later.

The problem with that is you just opened up more uncertainty and will the savings really be a savings if you fall back in talent.

Are we talking about the 30 year old club Griffen/Reiff/Rhodes/Joseph, those underperforming aging vets?

diehardtwinsfan
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DN: Vikings Offseason Plan v1.0 Jan 27, 2020 17:12:55 GMT -6 Danchat likes this

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on Jan 27, 2020 17:12:55 GMT -6

Jan 26, 2020 20:35:53 GMT -6 BosViking said:

Jan 26, 2020 18:23:32 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Another one from MarkSP18.

Vikings Off Season Plan v2.0

Release Griffen, Rhodes, Joseph, Reiff
Restructure Diggs - $6,000,000 of 2020 salary saves 5,000,000
Restructure Thielen - $3,500,000 of 2020 salary saves 2,800,000
Restructure Barr - $4,000,000 of 2020 salary saves 3,000,000
Restructure Hunter - $5,000,000 of 2020 salary saves 3,750,000
Extend Trae Waynes with a 4 year 36 mil deal
Extend Anthony Harris with a 4 year 40 mil deal with incentives
Andrew Sendejo receives 1 year 1.5 mil extension
Extend Dan Bailey with a 2 year 2 mil deal
Extend Britton Colquitt with a 2 year 2 mil deal
Extend CJ Ham with a 3 year 6 mil deal
Sign Joe Thuney to a 5 year 65 mil deal
Sign Jack Conklin to a 6 year 84 mil deal
Sign Michael Pierce to a 3 year 15 mil deal

Deets at the link:

www.dailynorseman.com/2020/1/25/21081685/vikings-off-season-plan-v2-0

What the f*ck is this?

I'm all for posting tweets to encourage debate, but some of these are going wayyyyy overboard.

Hunter restructuring.... why? Harris and $10mil per year? Homer talk.....

I mean, come on.......

It's not a pay cut... his base salary is turned to a signing bonus. It pushes off the cap hit and the player gets his cash right away... If I read the article right, the team has the right to do that without permission... and since it doesn't change a cent of what Hunter makes next year, it makes sense if they are going to go for it...

Of course I ask whether that's smart, but that's a different question...

Last Edit: Jan 27, 2020 17:17:37 GMT -6 by diehardtwinsfan

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DN: Vikings Offseason Plan v1.0 Jan 27, 2020 17:22:41 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 17:22:41 GMT -6

Jan 27, 2020 17:12:55 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

Jan 26, 2020 20:35:53 GMT -6 BosViking said:

What the f*ck is this?

I'm all for posting tweets to encourage debate, but some of these are going wayyyyy overboard.

Hunter restructuring.... why? Harris and $10mil per year? Homer talk.....

I mean, come on.......

It's not a pay cut... his base salary is turned to a signing bonus. It pushes off the cap hit and the player gets his cash right away... If I read the article right, the team has the right to do that without permission... and since it doesn't change a cent of what Hunter makes next year, it makes sense if they are going to go for it...

Of course I ask whether that's smart, but that's a different question...

Exactly.

It takes this year's salary (the part that's not gtd) and turns it into a guarantee (essentially signing bonus). Then it is spread evenly among the years remaining on the deal.

It just kicks it down the road. It's not wise.... unless your plan is to go with a starting QB on a rookie contract..... then I can see it....

Danchat
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DN: Vikings Offseason Plan v1.0 Jan 27, 2020 17:54:00 GMT -6

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Post by Danchat on Jan 27, 2020 17:54:00 GMT -6

Jan 27, 2020 16:34:14 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

You don't move unguaranteed money without giving more guaranteed money and back load them.

Correct, I imagine this was apart of the guy's plan, but it wasn't mentioned in the brief summary.

Jan 27, 2020 16:34:14 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

I would also argue you don't restructure underperforming aging vets.

There's been talk about restructuring Diggs', Thielen's, and Hunter's deals, and I don't think any of them are close to "sucking". But if we're talking about Rhodes, then that's another story. Cut him ASAP!

Last Edit: Jan 27, 2020 17:54:18 GMT -6 by Danchat

NoresemanSam
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DN: Vikings Offseason Plan v1.0 Jan 27, 2020 19:14:03 GMT -6

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Post by NoresemanSam on Jan 27, 2020 19:14:03 GMT -6

Jan 27, 2020 17:54:00 GMT -6 Danchat said:

Jan 27, 2020 16:34:14 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

You don't move unguaranteed money without giving more guaranteed money and back load them.

Correct, I imagine this was apart of the guy's plan, but it wasn't mentioned in the brief summary.

Jan 27, 2020 16:34:14 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

I would also argue you don't restructure underperforming aging vets.

There's been talk about restructuring Diggs', Thielen's, and Hunter's deals, and I don't think any of them are close to "sucking". But if we're talking about Rhodes, then that's another story. Cut him ASAP!

Please be more specific about what you mean by "restructuring." None of these guys are going to be asked for a pay cut, so what does "sucking" have to do with it?

"There is no one most valuable Viking. There are 40 most valuable Vikings" - Joe Kapp upon refusing to accept the team MVP award

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DN: Vikings Offseason Plan v1.0 Jan 27, 2020 19:34:08 GMT -6

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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 19:34:08 GMT -6

Jan 27, 2020 14:50:22 GMT -6 specialk28 said:

Well for one I don't know what the rules are moving guaranteed money around on contracts going into the final year of a CBA. Like this year there's no difference for post June 1 cuts because of that.

At last someone gets it.
All this talk about moving money down the road doesn't take in to account the final year of the CBA.Until a new deal is in place,the league stipulates that money from 2020 in some guarantees and bonus payments have to be accounted for on the 2020 cap.
You can't just kick money in to 2021,because that season might never happen if a new CBA isn't in place.

Danchat
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DN: Vikings Offseason Plan v1.0 Jan 27, 2020 20:11:13 GMT -6

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Post by Danchat on Jan 27, 2020 20:11:13 GMT -6

Jan 27, 2020 19:34:08 GMT -6 @aussie61 said:

Jan 27, 2020 14:50:22 GMT -6 specialk28 said:

Well for one I don't know what the rules are moving guaranteed money around on contracts going into the final year of a CBA. Like this year there's no difference for post June 1 cuts because of that.

At last someone gets it.
All this talk about moving money down the road doesn't take in to account the final year of the CBA.Until a new deal is in place,the league stipulates that money from 2020 in some guarantees and bonus payments have to be accounted for on the 2020 cap.
You can't just kick money in to 2021,because that season might never happen if a new CBA isn't in place.

Interesting, I haven't heard this. This is concerning, if true and the CBA doesn't get signed soon.

NoresemanSam Veteran Minimum Posts: 7,758 Likes: 4,749 Fan Since: Kapp was king	DN: Vikings Offseason Plan v1.0 Jan 27, 2020 20:21:03 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by NoresemanSam on Jan 27, 2020 20:21:03 GMT -6 Yeah, I would really like to see the source for that. The NFLPA would never have agreed to that if it really means that FA's can't get huge contracts with stretched guaranteed money.
	Last Edit: Jan 27, 2020 20:23:01 GMT -6 by NoresemanSam "There is no one most valuable Viking. There are 40 most valuable Vikings" - Joe Kapp upon refusing to accept the team MVP award

diehardtwinsfan
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DN: Vikings Offseason Plan v1.0 Jan 28, 2020 6:40:36 GMT -6

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on Jan 28, 2020 6:40:36 GMT -6

Jan 27, 2020 17:22:41 GMT -6 BosViking said:

Jan 27, 2020 17:12:55 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

It's not a pay cut... his base salary is turned to a signing bonus. It pushes off the cap hit and the player gets his cash right away... If I read the article right, the team has the right to do that without permission... and since it doesn't change a cent of what Hunter makes next year, it makes sense if they are going to go for it...

Of course I ask whether that's smart, but that's a different question...

Exactly.

It takes this year's salary (the part that's not gtd) and turns it into a guarantee (essentially signing bonus). Then it is spread evenly among the years remaining on the deal.

It just kicks it down the road. It's not wise.... unless your plan is to go with a starting QB on a rookie contract..... then I can see it....

I would argue if that is the plan that you do everything you can to have cap space available once said rookie is ready to start. Let's say they can nab Jordan Love...just as an example. He's not starting this year behind KC baring injury, so he's a redshirt in year one of his rookie deal. Come year two, you want lots of cap space to put some solid tools around him... You aren't going to accomplish that if you're going for it in 2020 because now you have a lot more dead money hitting the cap. There's a time and a place for that... I guess the question is whether or not the front office thinks they can build around this team. I'm rather skeptical personally... too many holes to fill.

Side note, but you can move guaranteed dollars, just as you do non-guaranteed dollars. That doesn't affect anything either. Player gets what they would have gotten in 2020 as a bonus now and the cap hit gets pro-rated over the remainder of the contract.

If the decision is to go all in, then I have to think there's going to be a lot of that this offseason, as there are way too many holes to fill regardless.

diehardtwinsfan
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DN: Vikings Offseason Plan v1.0 Jan 28, 2020 6:44:01 GMT -6

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on Jan 28, 2020 6:44:01 GMT -6

Jan 27, 2020 19:34:08 GMT -6 @aussie61 said:

Jan 27, 2020 14:50:22 GMT -6 specialk28 said:

Well for one I don't know what the rules are moving guaranteed money around on contracts going into the final year of a CBA. Like this year there's no difference for post June 1 cuts because of that.

At last someone gets it.
All this talk about moving money down the road doesn't take in to account the final year of the CBA.Until a new deal is in place,the league stipulates that money from 2020 in some guarantees and bonus payments have to be accounted for on the 2020 cap.
You can't just kick money in to 2021,because that season might never happen if a new CBA isn't in place.

This isn't like the last deal where there was an uncapped year. There are already plenty of deals going into 2021, and there are plenty of guarantees as well.

specialk28
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DN: Vikings Offseason Plan v1.0 Jan 28, 2020 8:03:51 GMT -6

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Post by specialk28 on Jan 28, 2020 8:03:51 GMT -6

Jan 27, 2020 19:34:08 GMT -6 @aussie61 said:

Jan 27, 2020 14:50:22 GMT -6 specialk28 said:

Well for one I don't know what the rules are moving guaranteed money around on contracts going into the final year of a CBA. Like this year there's no difference for post June 1 cuts because of that.

At last someone gets it.
All this talk about moving money down the road doesn't take in to account the final year of the CBA.Until a new deal is in place,the league stipulates that money from 2020 in some guarantees and bonus payments have to be accounted for on the 2020 cap.
You can't just kick money in to 2021,because that season might never happen if a new CBA isn't in place.

Hey I always tell everyone I'm a pretty smart guy!

specialk28
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DN: Vikings Offseason Plan v1.0 Jan 28, 2020 8:05:13 GMT -6

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Post by specialk28 on Jan 28, 2020 8:05:13 GMT -6

Jan 28, 2020 6:44:01 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

Jan 27, 2020 19:34:08 GMT -6 @aussie61 said:

At last someone gets it.
All this talk about moving money down the road doesn't take in to account the final year of the CBA.Until a new deal is in place,the league stipulates that money from 2020 in some guarantees and bonus payments have to be accounted for on the 2020 cap.
You can't just kick money in to 2021,because that season might never happen if a new CBA isn't in place.

This isn't like the last deal where there was an uncapped year. There are already plenty of deals going into 2021, and there are plenty of guarantees as well.

But what you're talking about is the salary cap. What we're talking about is how the league allows you to structure the current contracts and the impact on the cap.

slapnut19
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DN: Vikings Offseason Plan v1.0 Jan 28, 2020 8:27:38 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by slapnut19 on Jan 28, 2020 8:27:38 GMT -6

Jan 28, 2020 8:05:13 GMT -6 specialk28 said:

Jan 28, 2020 6:44:01 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

This isn't like the last deal where there was an uncapped year. There are already plenty of deals going into 2021, and there are plenty of guarantees as well.

But what you're talking about is the salary cap. What we're talking about is how the league allows you to structure the current contracts and the impact on the cap.

have there been any restrictions given to teams in terms of how to structure contracts going forward?

specialk28
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DN: Vikings Offseason Plan v1.0 Jan 28, 2020 8:33:48 GMT -6

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Post by specialk28 on Jan 28, 2020 8:33:48 GMT -6

Jan 28, 2020 8:27:38 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

Jan 28, 2020 8:05:13 GMT -6 specialk28 said:

But what you're talking about is the salary cap. What we're talking about is how the league allows you to structure the current contracts and the impact on the cap.

have there been any restrictions given to teams in terms of how to structure contracts going forward?

No idea about going forward. I just know that this year they changed the pre/post June 1st cut and how teams can move the dead money. Now all dead money impacts this year and teams aren't allowed to move it forward.

So I don't know. Maybe they can do the restructure deal where you convert base into bonus but I would assume they won't allow it to move down the road.