Another Playoff Loss....Your thoughts how to improve?

Why not trade Kirk? He had a relatively good season. There will be someone out there who wants him.... Broncos? Colts? Dolphins? Hell, Patriots even.... if Brady walks.....

And Kirk would agree.... as long as the new team pays him a ridiculous amount of $$$ (or goes to a team like Patriots)

Expecting multiple first round picks in return isn't realistic. But to trade him for "only" a 3rd round pick (for example) I think is totally realistic if we hire a new GM and the new GM doesnt want Kirk here.



As for your list....

Remove Barr

If you trade Kirk and cut the other 5 players.... you all of a sudden gained a whopping $64mil in cap space ($11.4mil in dead money)

That's trading Kirk and cutting 5 players.... and dont we gain cap space for Griffen too..... so with griffen it would be $70mil+ of gained cap space


So don't tell me it isnt possible to rebuild this offseason. It is.

The choice is Wilf's.....

Here is a question levi....

If Kirk was a free agent this offseason, how many teams out there are interested in signing him to a long term deal at market value? Your best guess at # of interested teams (genuine interest at that)


And 2nd question bc I dont know...

IF Kirk is traded.... his fully gtd cap hit for next season is off our books? Or we have to take the hit if we trade him? If we do have to take the hit then yes, it's not realistic he gets traded.

But I would assume if he restructures his deal to include that final year into a (let's say, 5 year extension).... then new team takes on all of it?

None? Really? You believe that? After a very high "graded" season he just had?

Your view of Kirk must be way lower than mine (and mine is already low)

Also I edited my previous reply to include a second question, if you could clear that up for me...

If Kirk were to agree to a trade/restructure, we would likely retain some of the 2020 cap hit. The amount would be negotiable and the terms included in the restructured contract. There is no get out of jail free card here.

If Kirk is traded to the Patriots, they'll become my second favorite team and I'll root for them any week they aren't playing us.

That said, I fully expect us to give him an extension over the next several months.

I'm not sure how that will end up over time because it takes a few seasons to evaluate drafts. This assumes that no other players were worth taking at the original spot that were better than Mattison. It assumes that the Vikings could not have used that pick to move up for a better player. It assumes that Mattison would not have been available later in the draft, which was my contention. It assumes Mattison was the BPA when the Vikings selected or it was projected that the Vikings would need his services in a three year window more than other players available at that time. It is much too early to tell.


Show me a team built with late round picks and undrafted players filling out a significant percentage of the 53 man roster that is a consistent Super Bowl challenging team. The first three rounds are the bread and butter of the NFL draft. If a GM doesn't hit on them, he has to fill his roster with players that are generally not as good or must fill his gaps with expensive free agents.


Does it? Does it give you better odds of filling the roster with competent depth? Logic suggests otherwise. Perhaps one could state that with more third or fourth round picks, but having more late round picks just means that more of the roster has to be filled with players that were viewed by scouts not to have as much potential.

What you are saying is that the Vikings have so low a view of their scouts that they will draft en-mass to try to find that player in the rough that could contribute. It is a dartboard theory of drafting, and it often is counterproductive in the long run. If you want to find a player with as high potential as a third round player, isn't it better to draft him in the third round rather than draft two or three players in the seventh round hoping one was scouted poorly by all 32 teams in the NFL?


I think you mean if they would NOT have missed on early picks that they could have hit on had they not moved down.

Stephon Diggs was drafted in the 5th round. Obviously, the Vikings did not value him any higher. The Vikings traded down nine picks before selecting him, and they added a sixth round pick. Depending on how the Vikings evaluated Diggs, the risk to reward varies. If the Vikings believed Diggs had fallen in the draft and would have a much higher value in the NFL, it was a huge risk not to select him with their original pick because the potential value of the sixth round pick was relatively low.


The sixth round pick was offensive tackle Tyrus Thompson who was cut from a Vikings team in desperate need of offensive line depth. Was he worth not selecting Diggs if another team had grabbed him with any of those nine other picks? Although it is debatable how much a star Diggs is or will be in the NFL, one would have to state the Vikings got lucky with this pick, as it is obvious that they didn't see any more talent in him than a pick they traded down in the 5th round to finally draft him.

The books are still out on Odenigbo and Johnson. Odenigbo has been a practice squad player, and has moved around the NFL. He could have been picked up by any team in the NFL, including the Vikings, basically since he was cut after his first camp. Bisi Johnson was selected with the Vikings compensatory draft pick. That was not a gained pick. One should note that the Vikings did select WR Dillon Mitchell earlier in the round with an added pick, so maybe Johnson would have been missed and potentially brought in as an UFA if the Vikings had not added picks. We don't know. We also don't know if Johnson will be anything more than a mediocre contributor to the Vikings in the future.

How many Vikings roster spots are being taken up by Armon Watts, Marcus Epps, Oli Udoh, Kris Boyd, Dillon Mitchell, Austin Cutting, Colby Gossett, Ade Aruna, Devante Downs, Bucky Hodges, Stacy Coley, Elijah Lee, Jack Tocho, Moritz Böhringer, David Morgan II, Stephen Weatherly, and Jayron Kearse? How many have been meaningful contributors to Vikings victories? How many could not be easily replaced by other players drafted at similar times or undrafted free agents?

I liked the Hodges pick as a slot receiver rather than a tight end, but that didn't work for the Vikings. Weatherly and Kearse have contributed, but were they ever really going to be more than backups? Stacy Coley was not only a poor pick, he should not have made the team either on the roster or the practice squad. He had Stalin hands.


One could cherry pick a few players or one could look at the entire book of work from Spielman. I just don't see a great roster here. I see some great players, some good players, and many players that could be replaced by mediocre players from other rosters. All GMs fill their rosters with starters and contributors. How well those GMs fill those positions can make the difference.

... as does selecting coaches.

Quality over quantity is the argument and there truly is no way to go back and act like the draft would play out the same.

I think people really forget just how many fails this team has had under Spielman from FA to the draft. To me its about fielding a competitive roster and getting the talent in areas you know you need to succeed. Also a huge area he has issue with is letting go of players and getting value.

If you cant field a winning team you have failed as a GM if you cant bring in the right staff you failed as a GM. If you have had this much time and have failed you have failed as a GM. It's just that simple.