Another Playoff Loss....Your thoughts how to improve?

vikingpitbull
Jersey Retired

Posts: 4,948
Likes: 2,011

Another Playoff Loss....Your thoughts how to improve? Jan 12, 2020 8:19:26 GMT -6 via mobile

Quote

Post by vikingpitbull on Jan 12, 2020 8:19:26 GMT -6

Jan 12, 2020 8:09:20 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

Jan 12, 2020 7:53:25 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

Yep they will be all over that great deal. Where does the money come from? Have you looked at our 22 in house FA? Have you looked at our cap situation? I bet no other NFL team will pay a young OL that has shown value at multiple positions. Especially LT.

point is we can cut guys like reiff and rhodes, gain cap space and sign cheaper options who can perform just as well. Its not all doom and gloom cap wise. We can make some moves and free up cap space. You keep bringing up the 22 in house free agents but you are failing to mention the 7 to 10 new faces we will get from the draft and undrafted free agent signings or practice squad guys who move up

Have you ever seen addition by subtraction work? You do understand to cut players you have to improve and who in gods name is going to do that? The same guy who has put us in this very spot? I have seen this multiple times and it has never worked out. Why would I have any faith in guys with 13 years and 6 years to turn it around in 1 year with no cap space. You do understand there are going to be about 29 NFL teams in better shape then us to get players. You honestly think going with stop gap and unproven players is going to be better. All 22 in house FA are either starters or main contributors and 2nd on the depth chart. So you honestly think 7 to 10 new faces will all make huge impact in year 1. Can't wait to see that.

Last Edit: Jan 12, 2020 8:22:26 GMT -6 by vikingpitbull

slapnut19
Hall of Fame Nominee

Posts: 9,454
Likes: 3,059
Member is Online

Another Playoff Loss....Your thoughts how to improve? Jan 12, 2020 8:34:47 GMT -6 via mobile Funkytown and NoresemanSam like this

Quote

Post by slapnut19 on Jan 12, 2020 8:34:47 GMT -6

Jan 12, 2020 8:19:26 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

Jan 12, 2020 8:09:20 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

point is we can cut guys like reiff and rhodes, gain cap space and sign cheaper options who can perform just as well. Its not all doom and gloom cap wise. We can make some moves and free up cap space. You keep bringing up the 22 in house free agents but you are failing to mention the 7 to 10 new faces we will get from the draft and undrafted free agent signings or practice squad guys who move up

Have you ever seen addition by subtraction work? You do understand to cut players you have to improve and who in gods name is going to do that? The same guy who has put us in this very spot? I have seen this multiple times and it has never worked out. Why would I have any faith in guys with 13 years and 6 years to turn it around in 1 year with no cap space. You do understand there are going to be about 29 NFL teams in better shape then us to get players. You honestly think going with stop gap and unproven players is going to be better. All 22 in house FA are either starters or main contributors and 2nd on the depth chart. So you honestly think 7 to 10 new faces will all make huge impact in year 1. Can't wait to see that.

you mean like losing ray edwards and Robison taking his place or Robison retiring and hunter taking his place? There is roster turnover every off season. Rhodes and Griffen leave we have younger guys holton hill and odenigbo ready to step in. That's how the league works.

thegreatgattino
Pro Bowl

Posts: 2,100
Likes: 25

Another Playoff Loss....Your thoughts how to improve? Jan 12, 2020 8:37:17 GMT -6 via mobile

Quote

Post by thegreatgattino on Jan 12, 2020 8:37:17 GMT -6

Jan 12, 2020 7:39:07 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

Jan 12, 2020 7:32:27 GMT -6 thegreatgattino said:

Yeah didn’t realize he’s a FA. WTF that gotta do with Madden? Funny you didn’t mention anything about the drop off between the two not being much.

Also I’ll gladly bet you any amount of money Rashod Hill doesn’t sign a contract anywhere near what Reiff is getting paid right now. What’s your Venmo?

What does Madden have to do with it. You really need to ask? I think you just answered your own question yet can't understand. How dumb do you think NFL agents are? Funny how you think there isn't much drop off yet can't connect the dots.

Again... If you think Rashod Hill is gonna sign a deal anywhere close to what Reiff did put your money where your mouth is.

Teams cut players every year to free up cap space. So yeah I don’t know what Madden has to do with anything.

vikingpitbull
Jersey Retired

Posts: 4,948
Likes: 2,011

Another Playoff Loss....Your thoughts how to improve? Jan 12, 2020 8:41:38 GMT -6 via mobile

Quote

Post by vikingpitbull on Jan 12, 2020 8:41:38 GMT -6

Jan 12, 2020 8:34:47 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

Jan 12, 2020 8:19:26 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

Have you ever seen addition by subtraction work? You do understand to cut players you have to improve and who in gods name is going to do that? The same guy who has put us in this very spot? I have seen this multiple times and it has never worked out. Why would I have any faith in guys with 13 years and 6 years to turn it around in 1 year with no cap space. You do understand there are going to be about 29 NFL teams in better shape then us to get players. You honestly think going with stop gap and unproven players is going to be better. All 22 in house FA are either starters or main contributors and 2nd on the depth chart. So you honestly think 7 to 10 new faces will all make huge impact in year 1. Can't wait to see that.

you mean like losing ray edwards and Robison taking his place or Robison retiring and hunter taking his place? There is roster turnover every off season. Rhodes and Griffen leave we have younger guys holton hill and odenigbo ready to step in. That's how the league works.

Hmmm 22 times in 1 year. That doesn't work. No cap that doesn't work. Having guys in 1 position you have groomed for multiple years and seen growth isn't what we have now. Other than DE we have no idea how any young guy will fo as a full time starter and there is nothing behind them at all. It's not even close to 1 guy here or there.

vikingpitbull
Jersey Retired

Posts: 4,948
Likes: 2,011

Another Playoff Loss....Your thoughts how to improve? Jan 12, 2020 8:48:10 GMT -6 via mobile

Quote

Post by vikingpitbull on Jan 12, 2020 8:48:10 GMT -6

Jan 12, 2020 8:37:17 GMT -6 thegreatgattino said:

Jan 12, 2020 7:39:07 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

What does Madden have to do with it. You really need to ask? I think you just answered your own question yet can't understand. How dumb do you think NFL agents are? Funny how you think there isn't much drop off yet can't connect the dots.

Again... If you think Rashod Hill is gonna sign a deal anywhere close to what Reiff did put your money where your mouth is.

Teams cut players every year to free up cap space. So yeah I don’t know what Madden has to do with anything.

Did you just say there isn't much drop off? So why would his agent sign a low ball deal to stay here vs test the market as a young LT. WTF does put the money where your mouth is mean? How many starting LT make 3 million a year that are signed to start. I would say he has shown more value so why would his agent take less... I don't know how logic works in your house but I have ocean front property in Arizona I will sell you.

slapnut19
Hall of Fame Nominee

Posts: 9,454
Likes: 3,059
Member is Online

Another Playoff Loss....Your thoughts how to improve? Jan 12, 2020 8:51:49 GMT -6 via mobile NoresemanSam likes this

Quote

Post by slapnut19 on Jan 12, 2020 8:51:49 GMT -6

Jan 12, 2020 8:41:38 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

Jan 12, 2020 8:34:47 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

you mean like losing ray edwards and Robison taking his place or Robison retiring and hunter taking his place? There is roster turnover every off season. Rhodes and Griffen leave we have younger guys holton hill and odenigbo ready to step in. That's how the league works.

Hmmm 22 times in 1 year. That doesn't work. No cap that doesn't work. Having guys in 1 position you have groomed for multiple years and seen growth isn't what we have now. Other than DE we have no idea how any young guy will fo as a full time starter and there is nothing behind them at all. It's not even close to 1 guy here or there.

you're right. How are we ever going to replace guys like treadwell Abdullah sherels david morgan brett jones and dakota dozier.

thegreatgattino
Pro Bowl

Posts: 2,100
Likes: 25

Another Playoff Loss....Your thoughts how to improve? Jan 12, 2020 8:54:22 GMT -6 via mobile

Quote

Post by thegreatgattino on Jan 12, 2020 8:54:22 GMT -6

Jan 12, 2020 8:48:10 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

Jan 12, 2020 8:37:17 GMT -6 thegreatgattino said:

Again... If you think Rashod Hill is gonna sign a deal anywhere close to what Reiff did put your money where your mouth is.

Teams cut players every year to free up cap space. So yeah I don’t know what Madden has to do with anything.

Did you just say there isn't much drop off? So why would his agent sign a low ball deal to stay here vs test the market as a young LT. WTF does put the money where your mouth is mean? How many starting LT make 3 million a year that are signed to start. I would say he has shown more value so why would his agent take less... I don't know how logic works in your house but I have ocean front property in Arizona I will sell you.

When Reiff was signed he viewed as an above average tackle and one of the best available. Hence the big contract he got. Rashod Hill is viewed as a backup fringe starter who’s played pretty well.

Reiff hasn’t played anywhere near what his contract is. That’s why the drop off isn’t huge. For someone pretending to be smart you’re pretty clueless.

I said cut Reiff and move Hill into the starting role which you said was dumb since Hill would command a big deal similar to Reiff. So like I said earlier I’ll bet you any amount of money their contracts won’t be close.

Last Edit: Jan 12, 2020 8:56:56 GMT -6 by thegreatgattino

vikingpitbull
Jersey Retired

Posts: 4,948
Likes: 2,011

Another Playoff Loss....Your thoughts how to improve? Jan 12, 2020 8:57:48 GMT -6 via mobile

Quote

Post by vikingpitbull on Jan 12, 2020 8:57:48 GMT -6

Jan 12, 2020 8:51:49 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

Jan 12, 2020 8:41:38 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

Hmmm 22 times in 1 year. That doesn't work. No cap that doesn't work. Having guys in 1 position you have groomed for multiple years and seen growth isn't what we have now. Other than DE we have no idea how any young guy will fo as a full time starter and there is nothing behind them at all. It's not even close to 1 guy here or there.

you're right. How are we ever going to replace guys like treadwell Abdullah sherels david morgan brett jones and dakota dozier.

Yep all the top guys that are FA. Funny argument on your end. Open your eyes... Sad part is some of those guys have been pretty important yet they are the bottom of the issue. Care to address the top? Didn't think so it wouldn't fit your view.

slapnut19
Hall of Fame Nominee

Posts: 9,454
Likes: 3,059
Member is Online

Another Playoff Loss....Your thoughts how to improve? Jan 12, 2020 9:03:07 GMT -6 via mobile

Quote

Post by slapnut19 on Jan 12, 2020 9:03:07 GMT -6

Jan 12, 2020 8:57:48 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

Jan 12, 2020 8:51:49 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

you're right. How are we ever going to replace guys like treadwell Abdullah sherels david morgan brett jones and dakota dozier.

Yep all the top guys that are FA. Funny argument on your end. Open your eyes... Sad part is some of those guys have been pretty important yet they are the bottom of the issue. Care to address the top? Didn't think so it wouldn't fit your view.

3 guys we need to retain are harris Alexander and Bailey. Cutting rhodes griffen and restructuring/cutting guys like reiff and joseph would free up 30 to 40 million. That's enough to sign those 3 and several others like restricted free agents ham and eric wilson

Deleted
Ghosted Member

Posts: 0
Likes:

Another Playoff Loss....Your thoughts how to improve? Jan 12, 2020 9:07:30 GMT -6 via mobile

Quote

Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 9:07:30 GMT -6

Improvement won’t be significant until there’s changes at the top. Too many times this team has come out unprepared, ultra conservative, and ready to make an excuse why they lose.

vikingpitbull
Jersey Retired

Posts: 4,948
Likes: 2,011

Another Playoff Loss....Your thoughts how to improve? Jan 12, 2020 9:11:02 GMT -6 via mobile

Quote

Post by vikingpitbull on Jan 12, 2020 9:11:02 GMT -6

Jan 12, 2020 8:54:22 GMT -6 thegreatgattino said:

Jan 12, 2020 8:48:10 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

Did you just say there isn't much drop off? So why would his agent sign a low ball deal to stay here vs test the market as a young LT. WTF does put the money where your mouth is mean? How many starting LT make 3 million a year that are signed to start. I would say he has shown more value so why would his agent take less... I don't know how logic works in your house but I have ocean front property in Arizona I will sell you.

When Reiff was signed he viewed as an above average tackle and one of the best available. Hence the big contract he got. Rashod Hill is viewed as a backup fringe starter who’s played pretty well.

Reiff hasn’t played anywhere near what his contract is. That’s why the drop off isn’t huge. For someone pretending to be smart you’re pretty clueless.

I said cut Reiff and move Hill into the starting role which you said was dumb since Hill would command a big deal similar to Reiff. So like I said earlier I’ll bet you any amount of money their contracts won’t be close.

You are clueless. I said Hills agent knows what Reiff got and there is no way his agent will sign his player up for 3 mill a year when he has value at both tackle positions and plays for the same team. Reiff was let go by Detroit so I doubt he was in high demand he was our 2nd option because the great Matt Kalil wanted to play with his brother. Our GM has no insight for OL talent and has no insight of value.

Um he ain't going to get 3 mill a year to be a starter here. It will be much closer from 7 to 10 if he's a starter here.

vikingpitbull
Jersey Retired

Posts: 4,948
Likes: 2,011

Another Playoff Loss....Your thoughts how to improve? Jan 12, 2020 9:30:15 GMT -6 via mobile

Quote

Post by vikingpitbull on Jan 12, 2020 9:30:15 GMT -6

Jan 12, 2020 9:03:07 GMT -6 slapnut19 said:

Jan 12, 2020 8:57:48 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

Yep all the top guys that are FA. Funny argument on your end. Open your eyes... Sad part is some of those guys have been pretty important yet they are the bottom of the issue. Care to address the top? Didn't think so it wouldn't fit your view.

3 guys we need to retain are harris Alexander and Bailey. Cutting rhodes griffen and restructuring/cutting guys like reiff and joseph would free up 30 to 40 million. That's enough to sign those 3 and several others like restricted free agents ham and eric wilson

We are 3 to 6 million over the cap heading into 2020. Harris is going to get paid more than Smith by some team that has cap and a spot for him. 30 million and how many more spots to fill after you cut them? Sorry no agent is going to restructure unless it's better for their clients. If they restructure they will still be starters so how does that help?

Again addition by subtraction doesn't work especially when you have no cap vs other teams.

Griffen is tricky he is at this point a FA if he so chooses his restructure basically voided so if the team wants to undercut him he can just walk. Our issue isn't at DE it's at DT S and CB. We have talent at DE not sure about full time vs part time. But it sounds easy just cut 4 starters and add to 22 FA. Should be easy to fix in 1 year with no cap.

Deleted
Ghosted Member

Posts: 0
Likes:

Another Playoff Loss....Your thoughts how to improve? Jan 12, 2020 9:39:35 GMT -6

Quote

Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 9:39:35 GMT -6

Jan 12, 2020 9:07:30 GMT -6 @keeniac said:

Improvement won’t be significant until there’s changes at the top. Too many times this team has come out unprepared, ultra conservative, and ready to make an excuse why they lose.

It just won't happen. For better or worse, everything has aligned all along for this run to go through next year. If 2020 isn't the Super Bowl year it's the optimal time to clear house, clear the cap, and give a new group a shot.

I'll point out, before someone who had their dog ran over by Spielman or otherwise lacks reading comprehension, I didn't say this is the right thing. The cap situation is obviously setup for a clearout in 2021 (that's not really disputable) but everything else is just an observation of facts.

James
Franchise Player

Posts: 3,329

Likes: 2,413

Another Playoff Loss....Your thoughts how to improve? Jan 12, 2020 9:40:36 GMT -6 via mobile

Quote

Post by James on Jan 12, 2020 9:40:36 GMT -6

There’s nothing this team can do anymore to convince me they will turn it around next year and years to come. However I would like to see Spielman gone, that would be a start. I don’t like how he builds teams.

Deleted
Ghosted Member

Posts: 0
Likes:

Another Playoff Loss....Your thoughts how to improve? Jan 12, 2020 9:59:29 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

Quote

Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 9:59:29 GMT -6

Jan 12, 2020 9:39:35 GMT -6 @theleviathan said:

Jan 12, 2020 9:07:30 GMT -6 @keeniac said:

Improvement won’t be significant until there’s changes at the top. Too many times this team has come out unprepared, ultra conservative, and ready to make an excuse why they lose.

It just won't happen. For better or worse, everything has aligned all along for this run to go through next year. If 2020 isn't the Super Bowl year it's the optimal time to clear house, clear the cap, and give a new group a shot.

I'll point out, before someone who had their dog ran over by Spielman or otherwise lacks reading comprehension, I didn't say this is the right thing. The cap situation is obviously setup for a clearout in 2021 (that's not really disputable) but everything else is just an observation of facts.

It is definitely disputable. The clear out COULD happen this year too.... if we had owners who learned from their mistake and had winning a Superbowl as their true priority #1.

Rhodes, Griffen, and others could be cut to create space.

Kirk could be traded (value is as high as it will ever be for him... in fact, there has never been a better time to trade Kirk than this offseason).

Is a year from now also aligned for a clear out? Yes. But just bc it is, DOES NOT mean this offseason isn't also. That would simply he false. A new GM could do a helluva lot this offseason.