Hunter - DPOY Good? | Purple Pain Forums

Reignman
Purple Pain Lap Dog

Posts: 44,738

Likes: 30,676
Fan Since: 1984

Hunter - DPOY Good? Dec 17, 2019 7:08:40 GMT -6 Funkytown, A-Train, and 1 more like this

Quote

Post by Reignman on Dec 17, 2019 7:08:40 GMT -6

Dec 16, 2019 21:54:42 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Dec 16, 2019 21:51:57 GMT -6 6 said:

Take some time, but I can do that, and it will probably be in a YouTube link. I have to take the cuts and games, cut them into plays, and then load them...not a cheap task. But will gladly do it.
Never would have guessed the other parts were going to get a pass for not contributing (no, I don’t care)

Excellent! Reignman does stuff like that sometimes. We used to have a guy, @oj, who did that, too. It's good stuff!

We have all the games in our Members Only forum section.

Reignman would love to do more of this stuff but his computer is an 11 year old pile of crap atm, being held together by nothing but duct tape and dust. Copious amounts of dust, and dog hair. I'm afraid to clean for fear something important will fall off because I'm sure most of the nuts/bolts have rusted away by now.

While I save my shekels for one of those fancy 21st century PC's, I decided to take a little break this year from the stress of producing Webby Award quality videos. I guess I could have made more GIF's, but I've been feeling a little lazy, and I was in more of a stat kind of mood this year, where I made yuge progress. Big league progress that has helped me debunk all kinds of myths.

Besides, someone has to keep the Odin Twins podcart in check. Those guys have been floating out so many myths lately that I might start referring to them as the podcult. Haha j/k, no not many myths lately ... the A-Train runs a tight ship up there in Faaaaargo fer pete's sake. Yah, you're darn tootin. Find out how much the OdinHammer really knows about football. Heck they'll even get Jerry Lundegaard to knock 100 bucks off dat der TruCoat during your next listen. A great deal dontcha know. You don't want any of dem gosh darn oxidation problems do ya? Heck no.

Aug 8, 2024 18:42:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

if sitting and watching something versus actually doing it made a person great at it, Reignman would be the next Ron Jeremy.

whoskmoon
Content Creator

Posts: 8,871
Likes: 7,219

Hunter - DPOY Good? Dec 17, 2019 9:18:53 GMT -6 Funkytown and PurpleKoolaid like this

Quote

Post by whoskmoon on Dec 17, 2019 9:18:53 GMT -6

Vikings against the run in 2016: 20th
2017: 2nd
2018: 15th
2019: 8th

Why are those numbers important?

In 2016, Hunter was a rotational pass rush guy and Robison played LDE on most rushing downs, a position that is responsible for containing and stopping the run in Zimmer's D. Moreso than RDE.
2017, Hunter takes over for Robison as a starter at LDE.
2018, Hunter plays a lot at RDE with Griffen out, Weatherly starts at LDE 6 games and plays a lot of snaps at LDE even when Griffen comes back. Hunter is asked to attack the QB more, gets a ton of sacks, but the run defense is pretty bad.
2019, Hunter is back at LDE, run defense improves dramatically.

Next season when Griffen goes elsewhere and Hunter moves to RDE, expect Hunter to get 20 sacks, but the run defense to struggle again.

Reignman
Purple Pain Lap Dog

Posts: 44,738

Likes: 30,676
Fan Since: 1984

Hunter - DPOY Good? Dec 17, 2019 12:38:29 GMT -6 Danchat likes this

Quote

Post by Reignman on Dec 17, 2019 12:38:29 GMT -6

Dec 17, 2019 9:18:53 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Vikings against the run in 2016: 20th
2017: 2nd
2018: 15th
2019: 8th

Why are those numbers important?

In 2016, Hunter was a rotational pass rush guy and Robison played LDE on most rushing downs, a position that is responsible for containing and stopping the run in Zimmer's D. Moreso than RDE.
2017, Hunter takes over for Robison as a starter at LDE.
2018, Hunter plays a lot at RDE with Griffen out, Weatherly starts at LDE 6 games and plays a lot of snaps at LDE even when Griffen comes back. Hunter is asked to attack the QB more, gets a ton of sacks, but the run defense is pretty bad.
2019, Hunter is back at LDE, run defense improves dramatically.

Next season when Griffen goes elsewhere and Hunter moves to RDE, expect Hunter to get 20 sacks, but the run defense to struggle again.

You've fallen for the ol rushing leads to winning trap my friend haha. I'm not saying your little theory didn't contribute to the inconsistencies at winning/losing, but a better explanation for those defensive rush ranks is the wins/losses.

2016:  8-8-0  20th
2017: 13-3-0   2nd
2018:  8-7-1  15th
2019: 10-4-0   8th

When you're leading/winning, your opponent has to pass more/run less, and vice versa, when you're trailing a lot or losing the run more/pass less, thus it has a huge impact on pass and run defense.

Aug 8, 2024 18:42:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

if sitting and watching something versus actually doing it made a person great at it, Reignman would be the next Ron Jeremy.

mjollnir
Cheerleader

Football Season is almost here

Posts: 11

Likes: 12

Hunter - DPOY Good? Dec 17, 2019 13:37:36 GMT -6 Reignman, Funkytown, and 2 more like this

Quote

Post by mjollnir on Dec 17, 2019 13:37:36 GMT -6

Dec 16, 2019 21:51:57 GMT -6 6 said:

Dec 16, 2019 21:49:22 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Please show us your examples you are so confident about. Preferably in GIF-form, with analysis explaining what you're seeing. We'd love to see it.

Take some time, but I can do that, and it will probably be in a YouTube link. I have to take the cuts and games, cut them into plays, and then load them...not a cheap task. But will gladly do it.
Never would have guessed the other parts were going to get a pass for not contributing (no, I don’t care)

Make sure you look at the tape objectively. Like I said he is consistently listed in the tackle for loss column. And since teams are focusing on running at our DT's that is a feat to tackle anybody but the QB for loss.

PFF for what is worth ranks him at 84.3 17th among edge defenders against the run (out of 64)

Athlon Sports has him 5th top DE at the start of the year recording 14.5 sacks and 72 Tackles (pretty good number in tackles for a edge defender)

But do not take my word for it.

Excerpt from after the Dallas game
Twelve defenders were credited with at least half a tackle on Elliott’s 20 running plays. Only twice was a player outside the front seven involved in the stop. Safety Harrison Smith and cornerback Xavier Rhodes each had half a tackle on an Elliott run.

December 9, 2019 11:40 AM

Vikings' Danielle Hunter: Dominant in divisional win

by RotoWire Staff | RotoWire

Hunter notched seven tackles (six solo) and three sacks during Sunday's 20-7 win over the Lions.

Hunter now has 12.5 sacks across 13 games, putting him in striking range of last season's career-best mark of 14.5 sacks. The 25-year-old's destructive Week 14 performance makes him the youngest player in NFL history to accumulate 50 career sacks, according to Courtney Cronin of ESPN.com. Hunter will look to keep up his considerable momentum against the Chargers in Week 15.

December 4, 2019 05:04 PM

Vikings' Danielle Hunter: Sack in Seattle

by RotoWire Staff | RotoWire

Hunter recorded five tackles (two solo) and a sack across 69 defensive snaps in Monday's loss to the Seahawks.

Hunter's sack count on the season now stands at 9.5, which leads the Vikings. He'll now shift his focus to the divisional matchup against the Lions, against whom he recorded a sack earlier this season.

November 8, 2019 10:24 AM

Vikings' Danielle Hunter: Sack streak continues

by RotoWire Staff | RotoWire

Hunter notched three tackles (two solo) and 0.5 sacks during Sunday's 26-23 loss to the Chiefs.

Hunter has now made an impact in the sack column in eight of nine games this season. The 24-year-old will look to continue his destructive momentum Week 10 versus Dallas.

October 25, 2019 01:00 PM

Vikings' Danielle Hunter: Tallies another sack

by RotoWire Staff | RotoWire

Hunter had five solo tackles, a sack and a forced fumble in Thursday's 19-9 win over the Redskins.

Hunter had a strip-sack on Case Keenum during the first quarter to setup the Vikings first score of the game. The 24-year-old is enjoying a fantastic season with 39 tackles (33 solo) and eight sacks through eight games.

October 22, 2019 10:48 PM

Vikings' Danielle Hunter: Reaches quarterback again

by RotoWire Staff | RotoWire

Hunter had three solo tackles and a sack during Sunday's win against the Lions.

Hunter now has four sacks in his last three games and has a sack in all but one game in 2019. The 25-year-old has 34 tackles (28 solo) and is tied-fourth in the NFL with seven sacks.

October 14, 2019 10:56 PM

Vikings' Danielle Hunter: Another week, another sack

by RotoWire Staff | RotoWire

Hunter notched three tackles, including his team-leading sixth sack of the season, in Sunday's 38-20 win over the Eagles.

Apart from Minnesota's loss to the Bears in Week 4, Hunter has recorded a sack in every game this season. Effective against both the pass and the run, expect No. 99 to continue seeing a heavy workload on Mike Zimmer's rotation-heavy defensive line. Hunter, if he hasn't arrived already, is approaching elite status as a defensive player in the NFL.

October 8, 2019 04:52 PM

Vikings' Danielle Hunter: Notches pair of sacks at MetLife

by RotoWire Staff | RotoWire

Hunter finished Sunday's win over the Giants with seven tackles and a pair of sacks.

Now with five sacks on the year, good for most on the Vikings to this point in the season, Hunter has clearly established himself as Minnesota's primary pass disruptor. He's also no slouch when it comes to defending the run, finishing Sunday's win over New York tied for the team lead with seven tackles, two coming on takedowns of Giants quarterback Daniel Jones. Playing on a defensive unit that boasts talent at all three levels, Hunter could very well be the most valuable member of the Vikings defense this season.

September 24, 2019 10:56 PM

Vikings' Danielle Hunter: Sacks adding up

by RotoWire Staff | RotoWire

Hunter recorded two tackles, one solo, and a sack across 41 defensive snaps in Sunday's win over the Raiders.

Hunter is the clubhouse leader in sacks so far this season in Minnesota, which is not all that surprising considering his 14.5-sack campaign in 2018. He'll now shift his focus to wreaking havoc on Mitch Trubisky and the Bears.

September 16, 2019 01:00 PM

Vikings' Danielle Hunter: Records another sack

by RotoWire Staff | RotoWire

Hunter notched nine tackles (six solo) and one sack during Sunday's 21-16 loss to the Packers.

Hunter has recorded a sack in each of his first two contests of the 2019 campaign. He'll work to keep that streak up Week 3 versus the Raiders, when he'll once again serve as Minnesota's top pass rusher.

September 10, 2019 05:04 PM

Vikings' Danielle Hunter: Notches sack versus Falcons

by RotoWire Staff | RotoWire

Hunter made four solo tackles -- two for a loss -- and a sack in Sunday's 28-12 win over the Falcons.

Hunter was explosive in 2018 with a career-high 14.5 sacks, which ranked fourth in the league, and he's carrying that momentum into the new season. He's clearly the Vikings' top pass rusher, and he has a juicy Week 2 matchup on tap versus Packers QB Aaron Rodgers, who was just sacked five times by the Bears.

Last Edit: Dec 17, 2019 13:41:05 GMT -6 by mjollnir

Funkytown Owner Purple Pain Big Dog Posts: 67,661 Likes: 31,587 Fan Since: 1998	Hunter - DPOY Good? Dec 18, 2019 12:54:19 GMT -6 OdinHammer likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Funkytown on Dec 18, 2019 12:54:19 GMT -6

whoskmoon
Content Creator

Posts: 8,871
Likes: 7,219

Hunter - DPOY Good? Dec 18, 2019 13:01:37 GMT -6

Quote

Post by whoskmoon on Dec 18, 2019 13:01:37 GMT -6

Dec 17, 2019 12:38:29 GMT -6 Reignman said:

Dec 17, 2019 9:18:53 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Vikings against the run in 2016: 20th
2017: 2nd
2018: 15th
2019: 8th

Why are those numbers important?

In 2016, Hunter was a rotational pass rush guy and Robison played LDE on most rushing downs, a position that is responsible for containing and stopping the run in Zimmer's D. Moreso than RDE.
2017, Hunter takes over for Robison as a starter at LDE.
2018, Hunter plays a lot at RDE with Griffen out, Weatherly starts at LDE 6 games and plays a lot of snaps at LDE even when Griffen comes back. Hunter is asked to attack the QB more, gets a ton of sacks, but the run defense is pretty bad.
2019, Hunter is back at LDE, run defense improves dramatically.

Next season when Griffen goes elsewhere and Hunter moves to RDE, expect Hunter to get 20 sacks, but the run defense to struggle again.

You've fallen for the ol rushing leads to winning trap my friend haha. I'm not saying your little theory didn't contribute to the inconsistencies at winning/losing, but a better explanation for those defensive rush ranks is the wins/losses.

2016:  8-8-0  20th
2017: 13-3-0   2nd
2018:  8-7-1  15th
2019: 10-4-0   8th

When you're leading/winning, your opponent has to pass more/run less, and vice versa, when you're trailing a lot or losing the run more/pass less, thus it has a huge impact on pass and run defense.

I didn't mention winning at all.

If you are concerned that lopsided victories lead to more rushes in 2016 and 2017:
In the first 2 qtrs YPA
2016:4.6
2017:3.7
2018:4.1
2019:3.8

Reignman
Purple Pain Lap Dog

Posts: 44,738

Likes: 30,676
Fan Since: 1984

Hunter - DPOY Good? Dec 18, 2019 15:02:44 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

Quote

Post by Reignman on Dec 18, 2019 15:02:44 GMT -6

Dec 18, 2019 13:01:37 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Dec 17, 2019 12:38:29 GMT -6 Reignman said:

You've fallen for the ol rushing leads to winning trap my friend haha. I'm not saying your little theory didn't contribute to the inconsistencies at winning/losing, but a better explanation for those defensive rush ranks is the wins/losses.

2016:  8-8-0  20th
2017: 13-3-0   2nd
2018:  8-7-1  15th
2019: 10-4-0   8th

When you're leading/winning, your opponent has to pass more/run less, and vice versa, when you're trailing a lot or losing the run more/pass less, thus it has a huge impact on pass and run defense.

I didn't mention winning at all.

If you are concerned that lopsided victories lead to more rushes in 2016 and 2017:
In the first 2 qtrs YPA
2016:4.6
2017:3.7
2018:4.1
2019:3.8

Yeah definitely, YPA is a much better stat than raw numbers. I did say I wasn't saying it didn't contribute or help us in the win pct department, but it's an objective fact that the larger the lead, the more often a team will run, which explains why the winning teams end up with more rushing yards. In fact, someone around here made this sexy ass chart showing exactly how it looks on paper xD.

Which is explained in more detail here Rushing Leads to Winning.

Aug 8, 2024 18:42:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

if sitting and watching something versus actually doing it made a person great at it, Reignman would be the next Ron Jeremy.

whoskmoon
Content Creator

Posts: 8,871
Likes: 7,219

Hunter - DPOY Good? Dec 18, 2019 15:17:50 GMT -6 Reignman likes this

Quote

Post by whoskmoon on Dec 18, 2019 15:17:50 GMT -6

Dec 18, 2019 15:02:44 GMT -6 Reignman said:

Dec 18, 2019 13:01:37 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

I didn't mention winning at all.

If you are concerned that lopsided victories lead to more rushes in 2016 and 2017:
In the first 2 qtrs YPA
2016:4.6
2017:3.7
2018:4.1
2019:3.8

Yeah definitely, YPA is a much better stat than raw numbers. I did say I wasn't saying it didn't contribute or help us in the win pct department, but it's an objective fact that the larger the lead, the more often a team will run, which explains why the winning teams end up with more rushing yards. In fact, someone around here made this sexy a$$ chart showing exactly how it looks on paper xD.

Which is explained in more detail here Rushing Leads to Winning.

I agree that will happen. Just like a team getting behind big will lead to more passing, and why you will see QBs like Matt Stafford as a prime example, who have high volume stats because they turn the ball over a lot, get their team behind big, or their defenses are bad, and they are always playing catch-up.

Funkytown Owner Purple Pain Big Dog Posts: 67,661 Likes: 31,587 Fan Since: 1998	Hunter - DPOY Good? Dec 19, 2019 10:52:31 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Funkytown on Dec 19, 2019 10:52:31 GMT -6

Reignman
Purple Pain Lap Dog

Posts: 44,738

Likes: 30,676
Fan Since: 1984

Hunter - DPOY Good? Dec 19, 2019 11:45:08 GMT -6

Quote

Post by Reignman on Dec 19, 2019 11:45:08 GMT -6

Most pass breakups ever eh? I guess that's pretty good for a LB who is 4'8. *whistle*

It's nice that Hunter is getting all the pressures, and Hendricks is getting all the pass breakups, but those are the participation trophies of statistics. Pressures are pointless unless we can see what that pressure has led to. Does it force the opposing QB to make mistakes? That's what I'm not seeing. I'd rather those pressures be hits that lead to mistakes, or even sacks. As I keep saying, a pressure just means you were a step too late.

Pass breakups are a little better, at least those are actually a positive result that we can see. Not the best result however. He's getting to the ball, but why isn't he getting there a little sooner so he can pick them off? In fact some of them have looked like he had a shot to pick them off. It might seem like a nitpick because we're already 4th in the league in takeaways, but maybe we're 12-2 with a few more sacks instead of pressures, or INT's instead of pass breakups.

It's the little things like this that separate a 1-and-done 6th seed from a Super Bowl contender. Yeah I know, it's better than whatever the Jets or Bengals are doing, but again, if none of this leads to a Lombardi then is it really any better than what the Jets and Bengals are doing? Neither of us won a Lombardi. Maybe they're at least stockpiling for the future, which will mean they'll probably be making a Super Bowl run before we do if we don't start turning more of these pressures into sacks and pass breakups into turnovers. Get er done!

Aug 8, 2024 18:42:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

if sitting and watching something versus actually doing it made a person great at it, Reignman would be the next Ron Jeremy.

Danchat
Content Creator

Posts: 19,038

Likes: 16,631

Hunter - DPOY Good? Dec 19, 2019 13:01:54 GMT -6 OdinHammer likes this

Quote

Post by Danchat on Dec 19, 2019 13:01:54 GMT -6

Dec 19, 2019 11:45:08 GMT -6 Reignman said:

Most pass breakups ever eh? I guess that's pretty good for a LB who is 4'8. *whistle*

It's nice that Hunter is getting all the pressures, and Hendricks is getting all the pass breakups, but those are the participation trophies of statistics. Pressures are pointless unless we can see what that pressure has led to. Does it force the opposing QB to make mistakes? That's what I'm not seeing. I'd rather those pressures be hits that lead to mistakes, or even sacks. As I keep saying, a pressure just means you were a step too late.

Pass breakups are a little better, at least those are actually a positive result that we can see. Not the best result however. He's getting to the ball, but why isn't he getting there a little sooner so he can pick them off? In fact some of them have looked like he had a shot to pick them off. It might seem like a nitpick because we're already 4th in the league in takeaways, but maybe we're 12-2 with a few more sacks instead of pressures, or INT's instead of pass breakups.

It's the little things like this that separate a 1-and-done 6th seed from a Super Bowl contender. Yeah I know, it's better than whatever the Jets or Bengals are doing, but again, if none of this leads to a Lombardi then is it really any better than what the Jets and Bengals are doing? Neither of us won a Lombardi. Maybe they're at least stockpiling for the future, which will mean they'll probably be making a Super Bowl run before we do if we don't start turning more of these pressures into sacks and pass breakups into turnovers. Get er done!

It's funny you say that, king of "rack up pressures but never get any sacks" is Sheldon Richardson, of whom many lamented that we no longer have.

I like to think of pressures as a predictive stat, as the more pressures you get, the more sacks you should get. You can expect a player who had a lot of pressures but not many sacks to regress to the mean, unless they have a career of failing to convert pressures to sacks. And the opposite is true too, some players can have a flukey season with not many pressures but a lot of sacks, but then they never live up to that season again.

Purple Pain
Hall of Fame Nominee

Posts: 8,744
Likes: 2,880

Hunter - DPOY Good? Dec 19, 2019 20:28:27 GMT -6

Quote

Post by Purple Pain on Dec 19, 2019 20:28:27 GMT -6

Dec 19, 2019 10:52:31 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Good stuff from this piece:

Ultimately, though, pass breakups and forced incompletions aren’t the largest subset of plays for a linebacker, even one as prolific as Kendricks. We can take a look at just the overall bottom-line production when teams target him in coverage to see the influence he has on passing success. The passer rating when targeting a linebacker in the NFL this season is 104.3, more than seven points higher than the average passer rating on all throws. When teams have thrown the ball in the direction of Kendricks, the passer rating has been just 86.8, and that’s despite him not picking any of them off to slash that number.

The average NFL linebacker has allowed a completion rate of 77.4% into their coverage this season, higher than the average throw, as most of their targets come at relatively short depths. Kendricks is at just 56.3%, more than 20 percentage points better. That is the best mark in the NFL among linebackers, and its another area where Kendrick stacks up pretty well against all positions. Richard Sherman is heading to the Pro Bowl allowing a completion rate of 55.1% on the season, just a fraction better.

Strong coverage play is the most valuable thing a linebacker can do, but it isn’t everything. The Vikings have tasked Kendricks with blitzing at least once in every game this season, sometimes as often as 14 times in a game. He has 17 total pressures from those snaps.

He also has a top-five run-defense grade and an average depth of tackle against the run of just 3.46 yards. The two linebackers nominated to the Pro Bowl for the NFC this season instead of Kendricks (Bobby Wagner and Luke Kuechly) have tackle depth averages of 4.88 and 3.62 yards, respectively.

Kendricks isn't excelling in only favorable matchups, either. He's held his own against top competition, recording pass breakups against Julio Jones, Golden Tate, Dallas Goedert, Ezekiel Elliott and Austin Ekeler, among others, and has consistently shown the ability to make life tougher for opposing offenses.

The bottom line is that if you’re judging Pro Bowl, All-Pro and Defensive Player of the Year solely by looking at box score numbers, Kendricks has no shot. But we know that’s a flawed methodology that inevitably leads people astray. If you put on the tape and watch Kendricks throughout the 2019 season, you’ll conclude he isn’t just having a career year, but that he is one of the best players in the NFL this season at any position.

Last Edit: Dec 19, 2019 20:29:06 GMT -6 by Purple Pain

PurpleKoolaid
Hall of Fame Candidate

Posts: 6,227

Likes: 2,844

Hunter - DPOY Good? Dec 19, 2019 21:20:02 GMT -6 Funkytown and Danchat like this

Quote

Post by PurpleKoolaid on Dec 19, 2019 21:20:02 GMT -6

I'm glad Kendricks is getting some signs of being noticed by the NFL as being a superior LB. Maybe they will stop giving the praise to Barr, who does very little in most games. He makes some tackles, sure, but any LB would in his position, like Wilson.

Hunter is the best DE I've seen this year. He good against the run (I read of a few of 6's posts, thats about all I could take) and I have no idea why someone would say that. It would be like saying Cousins hasnt improved this year over last year. Absurdity.

Funkytown Owner Purple Pain Big Dog Posts: 67,661 Likes: 31,587 Fan Since: 1998	Hunter - DPOY Good? Feb 2, 2020 18:45:04 GMT -6 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Funkytown on Feb 2, 2020 18:45:04 GMT -6 One vote!

HarryHits22
Hall of Fame Inductee

Posts: 14,518
Likes: 966

Hunter - DPOY Good? Feb 2, 2020 19:21:36 GMT -6 via mobile

Quote

Post by HarryHits22 on Feb 2, 2020 19:21:36 GMT -6

This year was weird for DPOY. I honestly dont know who deserved it. Love Hunter and Kendricks, but neither really earned it IMO.

With that said, Gilmore wasn't even the best corner in the league this year, let alone best defensive player.