Why don't you like Rick?

mikenessfan
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Why don't you like Rick? Dec 28, 2019 14:52:22 GMT -6 via mobile Longship likes this

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Post by mikenessfan on Dec 28, 2019 14:52:22 GMT -6

Dec 28, 2019 14:42:01 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

Dec 28, 2019 0:30:12 GMT -6 PurplePeopleEater said:

This sounds a little like the guy who has been dating a woman for 5 years, knows he absolutely will not marry her and that she is not the one, but keeps her around anyway because he feels he might not be able to do better.

All of the points you make about Rick are not wrong. He is great at sniping late round and UDFA talent. But gathering and acquiring talent, and putting the right talent together at the right positions at the same time, are two different things. And you absolutely have to get the QB right, or none of it matters. For example, early in AP's career, we had a rather strong OL and run game, with absolute garbage at WR most years. And of course, garbage at QB as well. Then we transition into the post AP era, we finally have a very legit WR duo, and now we have a terrible OL and a bad QB situation. There is a common denominator there that has been constant the entire time Rick has been in charge the past 13 years. QB.

After 13 seasons, we have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly with Rick. While some of the good things he has done are enough for some fans to let him linger around, the totality of his body of work and very poor playoff results has me convinced he will not put a championship team together. Once that line is crossed for me, he needs to go, even if it might be difficult to replace him. We have to take that chance if we are going to find "the one", even if it means we might pick someone who ends up being far worse. That is the risk I am willing (and hoping) to take ASAP. It just comes down to believing that something has got to change. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. I think it is insanity to believe Rick will do in year 14, 15, or 16 what he has failed to do after the first 13 years.

I'd argue that finding said talent is the single biggest thing he could do. I won't argue about the QB, that's part of it. Rick has drafted 2. No one will argue with you about Ponder, but watching Teddy take a pretty big step forward in New Orleans this year makes me wonder if @theleviathan is correct in his assessment that our defensive minded coach has failed at developing a QB... That and Teddy's knee, which I won't hold against Rick or Zimmer. That explosion set this team back quite a bit.

Given the bust rate of QBs in the league, I don't think it's quite fair to judge Rick solely on the lack of finding that QB. He's taken 2 shots at it, and I'd only call one a sure bust. But back to that premise, do you want a guy capable of finding talent drafting that next QB or do you want someone who may have just gotten lucky once? Speaking of getting lucky, who is out there right now with a track record of finding good QBs if that is your litmus test?

. But it seems like you don’t get it dude. It’s ricks job to find that qb. Nobody else on the team is finding that guy. Whether it be in the draft or fa, or through a trade. It’s his and his alone responsibility to find the franchise qb. He hasn’t done it not just here (been here for 14 years) but also in Miami. His history (long one at that) says he can’t find that qb. And if we agree that having a franchise qb that doesn’t sh!t the bed in the biggest spots is needed to win a sb, then we should also agree that rick being the gm to find that guy isn’t going to happen.

diehardtwinsfan
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Why don't you like Rick? Dec 28, 2019 15:06:38 GMT -6

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on Dec 28, 2019 15:06:38 GMT -6

Dec 28, 2019 14:52:22 GMT -6 mikenessfan said:

Dec 28, 2019 14:42:01 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

I'd argue that finding said talent is the single biggest thing he could do. I won't argue about the QB, that's part of it. Rick has drafted 2. No one will argue with you about Ponder, but watching Teddy take a pretty big step forward in New Orleans this year makes me wonder if @theleviathan is correct in his assessment that our defensive minded coach has failed at developing a QB... That and Teddy's knee, which I won't hold against Rick or Zimmer. That explosion set this team back quite a bit.

Given the bust rate of QBs in the league, I don't think it's quite fair to judge Rick solely on the lack of finding that QB. He's taken 2 shots at it, and I'd only call one a sure bust. But back to that premise, do you want a guy capable of finding talent drafting that next QB or do you want someone who may have just gotten lucky once? Speaking of getting lucky, who is out there right now with a track record of finding good QBs if that is your litmus test?

. But it seems like you don’t get it dude. It’s ricks job to find that qb. Nobody else on the team is finding that guy. Whether it be in the draft or fa, or through a trade. It’s his and his alone responsibility to find the franchise qb. He hasn’t done it not just here (been here for 14 years) but also in Miami. His history (long one at that) says he can’t find that qb. And if we agree that having a franchise qb that doesn’t sh!t the bed in the biggest spots is needed to win a sb, then we should also agree that rick being the gm to find that guy isn’t going to happen.

I do get it. We don't agree.

I am not going to argue with you on the importance of the QB position. It's the most important player on the offense and second only to coaching in terms of importance to the overall team. But, I would much rather entrust finding our next QB to a person with a track record of successfully identifying talent, not one that wasn't very good at it but managed to get a decent QB once. That's a recipe for failure.

Edit to ask the question: Would you fire Rick and hire Ted Thompson? Your logic says that's a sound decision.

Last Edit: Dec 28, 2019 15:46:47 GMT -6 by diehardtwinsfan

mikenessfan
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Why don't you like Rick? Dec 28, 2019 17:17:25 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by mikenessfan on Dec 28, 2019 17:17:25 GMT -6

Dec 28, 2019 15:06:38 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

Dec 28, 2019 14:52:22 GMT -6 mikenessfan said:

. But it seems like you don’t get it dude. It’s ricks job to find that qb. Nobody else on the team is finding that guy. Whether it be in the draft or fa, or through a trade. It’s his and his alone responsibility to find the franchise qb. He hasn’t done it not just here (been here for 14 years) but also in Miami. His history (long one at that) says he can’t find that qb. And if we agree that having a franchise qb that doesn’t sh!t the bed in the biggest spots is needed to win a sb, then we should also agree that rick being the gm to find that guy isn’t going to happen.

I do get it. We don't agree.

I am not going to argue with you on the importance of the QB position. It's the most important player on the offense and second only to coaching in terms of importance to the overall team. But, I would much rather entrust finding our next QB to a person with a track record of successfully identifying talent, not one that wasn't very good at it but managed to get a decent QB once. That's a recipe for failure.

Edit to ask the question: Would you fire Rick and hire Ted Thompson? Your logic says that's a sound decision.

No, we agree that the qb position is the most important position in the team. My point is that until we get a true franchise qb who can win in big time situations and doesn’t let the pressure impact him, we aren’t going to win a sb. And my point is that rick spielman won’t be that guy to find that qb as he has never in his long history done that and nothing suggests he ever will. Look I try to look at things how they are and not with a negative viewpoint or with purple colored glasses on. I’m literally just calling it as it is. I think rick has his strong suits at identifying and bringing in talent at certain positions and doing well finding talent in the later rounds of the draft and udfa. I also think generally speaking he does well with extending his own players who deserve the extension. But on the flip side he has some real issues at crucial areas on the field mainly in the qb and oline. Those are 2 areas besides dline that are the most important in the field. We’ve gone through this exercise with Rick for a long time. I think it’s time to move on. Can we do worse? Yes I think we can. But until we try, we will never get that qb we are looking for and keeping Rick is just going with more of the same.

PurplePeopleEater
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Why don't you like Rick? Dec 28, 2019 17:51:54 GMT -6 via mobile Longship likes this

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Post by PurplePeopleEater on Dec 28, 2019 17:51:54 GMT -6

Dec 28, 2019 14:42:01 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

Dec 28, 2019 0:30:12 GMT -6 PurplePeopleEater said:

This sounds a little like the guy who has been dating a woman for 5 years, knows he absolutely will not marry her and that she is not the one, but keeps her around anyway because he feels he might not be able to do better.

All of the points you make about Rick are not wrong. He is great at sniping late round and UDFA talent. But gathering and acquiring talent, and putting the right talent together at the right positions at the same time, are two different things. And you absolutely have to get the QB right, or none of it matters. For example, early in AP's career, we had a rather strong OL and run game, with absolute garbage at WR most years. And of course, garbage at QB as well. Then we transition into the post AP era, we finally have a very legit WR duo, and now we have a terrible OL and a bad QB situation. There is a common denominator there that has been constant the entire time Rick has been in charge the past 13 years. QB.

After 13 seasons, we have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly with Rick. While some of the good things he has done are enough for some fans to let him linger around, the totality of his body of work and very poor playoff results has me convinced he will not put a championship team together. Once that line is crossed for me, he needs to go, even if it might be difficult to replace him. We have to take that chance if we are going to find "the one", even if it means we might pick someone who ends up being far worse. That is the risk I am willing (and hoping) to take ASAP. It just comes down to believing that something has got to change. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. I think it is insanity to believe Rick will do in year 14, 15, or 16 what he has failed to do after the first 13 years.

I'd argue that finding said talent is the single biggest thing he could do. I won't argue about the QB, that's part of it. Rick has drafted 2. No one will argue with you about Ponder, but watching Teddy take a pretty big step forward in New Orleans this year makes me wonder if @theleviathan is correct in his assessment that our defensive minded coach has failed at developing a QB... That and Teddy's knee, which I won't hold against Rick or Zimmer. That explosion set this team back quite a bit.

Given the bust rate of QBs in the league, I don't think it's quite fair to judge Rick solely on the lack of finding that QB. He's taken 2 shots at it, and I'd only call one a sure bust. But back to that premise, do you want a guy capable of finding talent drafting that next QB or do you want someone who may have just gotten lucky once? Speaking of getting lucky, who is out there right now with a track record of finding good QBs if that is your litmus test?

Rick's talent scouting ability has not translated over to quarterback, so your argument is invalid. If it did, combined with the talent we have had come and go over the years, we might have multiple championships. The entire argument, and what all of us have admitted all along, is that Rick is great at bringing in talent (especially in late rounds) but has not had any success at QB.

Also, crediting Rick with just 2 drafted QBs is disingenuous. When rick was the VP of player personnel, going back to 2006, we had no GM. He didnt hold the title, but he held every single duty and responsibility of a GM. And as mike pointed out, you can go back to Miami if you want an even longer track record. Regardless of his official title, he has his fingerprints all over and is accountable for every single QB decision since 2006. And that doesn't only mean through the draft.

Lastly, your question about "would you rather have someone who has an eye for talent choosing the next qb or a guy who got lucky once". The short answer is I already debunked your framing about Rick and his ability to spot talent, because it has not (and will not imo) translate to the QB position. But I will answer it with good faith and say anyone else who has been around a successful org but who may not have had the chance to build a team yet. Anyone not named Rick Spielman who has GM qualities or GM potential. Even if the odds on the next GM are 5% championship and 95% failure, those are better odds than 0% Rick Spielman.

How many more years are you willing to give the guy?

I think you said 1 more year? I mean, after 13 seasons of running this team, you either believe he is the long term answer from here or you have realized he isn't able to get it done. It really can only be one of those two. A 14th year and then "I'll be ok with moving on from him" is simply delaying the inevitable. Gotta pick a side here.

Last Edit: Dec 29, 2019 1:43:13 GMT -6 by PurplePeopleEater

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Why don't you like Rick? Dec 29, 2019 0:38:37 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 0:38:37 GMT -6

Dec 28, 2019 17:51:54 GMT -6 PurplePeopleEater said:

How many more years are you willing to give the guy?

I think you said 1 more year? I mean, after 13 seasons of running this team, you either believe he is the long term answer from here or you have realized he isn't able to get it done. It really can only be one of those two. A 14th year and then "I'll be ok with moving on from him" is simply delaying the inevitable. Gotta pick a side here.

Yup.... never understood this myself. These are NFL years we are talking about here.

Vast majority of GMs and HCs around the league are VERY LUCKY to get 3, even more lucky to get 5 yrs...... and then there are the Wilfs and Rick........ inseparable.......

You're right. Fans AND our owners should have it clearly figured out by now. One way or the other.

And we continue to hear fear mongering tactics "we could get worse"..... worse than one of the laughing stock/perennial chokers in the league? Sorry...go spread your fear mongering elsewhere. Won't work here.

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Why don't you like Rick? Dec 29, 2019 1:50:52 GMT -6

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Post by NoresemanSam on Dec 29, 2019 1:50:52 GMT -6

Dec 29, 2019 0:38:37 GMT -6 BosViking said:

And we continue to hear fear mongering tactics "we could get worse"..... worse than one of the laughing stock/perennial chokers in the league? Sorry...go spread your fear mongering elsewhere. Won't work here.

BosViking , do you follow the NFL draft? Do you spend (waste) months leading up to each draft studying the candidates and preparing yourself for the draft? If not, it certainly doesn't make you a "bad" fan. Maybe even somebody with more important things to spend your time on. That said.....

Some of us have followed the NFL draft closely for decades. I subscribed to Pro Football Weekly in the early seventies and fully digested the (then monthly) pre-draft issues. I clearly remember listening on AM radio (during a school day!) that we had picked James "Duck" White in the first round and Sammy White in the second round of the 1976 draft. That really doesn't have much to do with anything.... but I've lived through way too many awful Viking drafts. We've had GM's who reached and failed on way too many high picks. Rick ain't that. He's had a few bad picks (all GMs do), but he's made me much happier on draft days (and beyond) than any other Viking GM. I'm keeping him for that reason alone, and I'm sticking with that! *thumb_up*

Hey look! The "I like Rick" votes are spanking the BosViking bandwagon crowd. *spank*

Last Edit: Dec 29, 2019 1:54:25 GMT -6 by NoresemanSam

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Why don't you like Rick? Dec 29, 2019 6:45:03 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 6:45:03 GMT -6

Dec 29, 2019 1:50:52 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

Dec 29, 2019 0:38:37 GMT -6 BosViking said:

And we continue to hear fear mongering tactics "we could get worse"..... worse than one of the laughing stock/perennial chokers in the league? Sorry...go spread your fear mongering elsewhere. Won't work here.

BosViking , do you follow the NFL draft? Do you spend (waste) months leading up to each draft studying the candidates and preparing yourself for the draft? If not, it certainly doesn't make you a "bad" fan. Maybe even somebody with more important things to spend your time on. That said.....

Some of us have followed the NFL draft closely for decades. I subscribed to Pro Football Weekly in the early seventies and fully digested the (then monthly) pre-draft issues. I clearly remember listening on AM radio (during a school day!) that we had picked James "Duck" White in the first round and Sammy White in the second round of the 1976 draft. That really doesn't have much to do with anything.... but I've lived through way too many awful Viking drafts. We've had GM's who reached and failed on way too many high picks. Rick ain't that. He's had a few bad picks (all GMs do), but he's made me much happier on draft days (and beyond) than any other Viking GM. I'm keeping him for that reason alone, and I'm sticking with that! *thumb_up*

Hey look! The "I like Rick" votes are spanking the BosViking bandwagon crowd. *spank*

Why does your pro-Spielgod side continue to point out the poll result? Yall are all about groupthink apparently. Even if I was the only one (ask our MVN guys.... been there done that) I would still point out that we aren't winning sh*t with Spielgod.

Also.... the draft is only one aspect of being a GM. It is his strength compared to other areas. What about free agency? Trades? Coaching staff hires? Etc. Etc. And most importantly, how about making all the various pieces fit together? He is nowhere near the top of the league in that area.

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Why don't you like Rick? Dec 29, 2019 8:56:05 GMT -6

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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 8:56:05 GMT -6

Dec 29, 2019 6:45:03 GMT -6 BosViking said:

Dec 29, 2019 1:50:52 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

BosViking , do you follow the NFL draft? Do you spend (waste) months leading up to each draft studying the candidates and preparing yourself for the draft? If not, it certainly doesn't make you a "bad" fan. Maybe even somebody with more important things to spend your time on. That said.....

Some of us have followed the NFL draft closely for decades. I subscribed to Pro Football Weekly in the early seventies and fully digested the (then monthly) pre-draft issues. I clearly remember listening on AM radio (during a school day!) that we had picked James "Duck" White in the first round and Sammy White in the second round of the 1976 draft. That really doesn't have much to do with anything.... but I've lived through way too many awful Viking drafts. We've had GM's who reached and failed on way too many high picks. Rick ain't that. He's had a few bad picks (all GMs do), but he's made me much happier on draft days (and beyond) than any other Viking GM. I'm keeping him for that reason alone, and I'm sticking with that! *thumb_up*

Hey look! The "I like Rick" votes are spanking the BosViking bandwagon crowd. *spank*

Why does your pro-Spielgod side continue to point out the poll result? Yall are all about groupthink apparently. Even if I was the only one (ask our MVN guys.... been there done that) I would still point out that we aren't winning sh*t with Spielgod.

Also.... the draft is only one aspect of being a GM. It is his strength compared to other areas. What about free agency? Trades? Coaching staff hires? Etc. Etc. And most importantly, how about making all the various pieces fit together? He is nowhere near the top of the league in that area.

Given your signature this is sorta hilarious irony.

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Why don't you like Rick? Dec 29, 2019 9:00:59 GMT -6

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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 9:00:59 GMT -6

Dec 28, 2019 13:23:30 GMT -6 PurplePeopleEater said:

Dec 28, 2019 13:04:38 GMT -6 @theleviathan said:

I think Rick has built several championship caliber rosters. Zimmer finds a way to torpedo it.

This is a 13 or 14 win team if not for his badly umderperforming defense.

I'm willing to move on from Rick after 2021...but I fear we will downgrade.

How can you say Rick has built several championship rosters with such a putrid track record at QB? If there isnt a championship caliber quarterback, there isnt a championship caliber roster. It is as simple as that.

And to your downgrading comment, it is entirely possible we might downgrade. But downgrading from a proven loser, even if that proven loser has some bright spots, does not worry me when you also consider that we could potentially upgrade to a GM who will bring us a championship. That is the risk we absolutely need to take at this point.

Aren't you tired of being good enough to get into the playoffs but nowhere near good enough to win a superbowl? That is all we will ever be under Rick's leadership.

i'd encourage you to look at all the miserable GM failures around the league the last 13 years. Spielman has failed to deliver a Super Bowl, but he has delivered consistent contention as well.

I'm willing to take that risk after 2021 when the slate is cleaner for a new GM. Boiling his job down to one position isn't fair. It's a fair criticism, but not end-all, be-all.

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Why don't you like Rick? Dec 29, 2019 9:28:30 GMT -6 via Tapatalk

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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 9:28:30 GMT -6

Dec 29, 2019 8:56:05 GMT -6 @theleviathan said:

Dec 29, 2019 6:45:03 GMT -6 BosViking said:

Why does your pro-Spielgod side continue to point out the poll result? Yall are all about groupthink apparently. Even if I was the only one (ask our MVN guys.... been there done that) I would still point out that we aren't winning sh*t with Spielgod.

Also.... the draft is only one aspect of being a GM. It is his strength compared to other areas. What about free agency? Trades? Coaching staff hires? Etc. Etc. And most importantly, how about making all the various pieces fit together? He is nowhere near the top of the league in that area.

Given your signature this is sorta hilarious irony.

The list started when I was on an island all by myself. Ask the MVN guys.

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Why don't you like Rick? Dec 29, 2019 9:31:01 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikecycle on Dec 29, 2019 9:31:01 GMT -6

Dec 29, 2019 9:00:59 GMT -6 @theleviathan said:

Dec 28, 2019 13:23:30 GMT -6 PurplePeopleEater said:

How can you say Rick has built several championship rosters with such a putrid track record at QB? If there isnt a championship caliber quarterback, there isnt a championship caliber roster. It is as simple as that.

And to your downgrading comment, it is entirely possible we might downgrade. But downgrading from a proven loser, even if that proven loser has some bright spots, does not worry me when you also consider that we could potentially upgrade to a GM who will bring us a championship. That is the risk we absolutely need to take at this point.

Aren't you tired of being good enough to get into the playoffs but nowhere near good enough to win a superbowl? That is all we will ever be under Rick's leadership.

i'd encourage you to look at all the miserable GM failures around the league the last 13 years. Spielman has failed to deliver a Super Bowl, but he has delivered consistent contention as well.

I'm willing to take that risk after 2021 when the slate is cleaner for a new GM. Boiling his job down to one position isn't fair. It's a fair criticism, but not end-all, be-all.

No he hasn't. We have made the playoffs 4 times in his tenure. That isnt consistent contention.

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Why don't you like Rick? Dec 29, 2019 9:33:54 GMT -6

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Post by comet52 on Dec 29, 2019 9:33:54 GMT -6

Dec 29, 2019 0:38:37 GMT -6 BosViking said:

Dec 28, 2019 17:51:54 GMT -6 PurplePeopleEater said:

How many more years are you willing to give the guy?

I think you said 1 more year? I mean, after 13 seasons of running this team, you either believe he is the long term answer from here or you have realized he isn't able to get it done. It really can only be one of those two. A 14th year and then "I'll be ok with moving on from him" is simply delaying the inevitable. Gotta pick a side here.

Yup.... never understood this myself. These are NFL years we are talking about here.

Vast majority of GMs and HCs around the league are VERY LUCKY to get 3, even more lucky to get 5 yrs...... and then there are the Wilfs and Rick........ inseparable.......

You're right. Fans AND our owners should have it clearly figured out by now. One way or the other.

And we continue to hear fear mongering tactics "we could get worse"..... worse than one of the laughing stock/perennial chokers in the league? Sorry...go spread your fear mongering elsewhere. Won't work here.

Cut through the chatter and you already got to the heart of the matter, heh heh. Wilf loves Rick. 16 years of mediocre Wilf football. Blame Rick, blame Zim, blame Chili if it makes you feel good, but an organization is only as good as ownership. Too bad we can't fire Zygmunt.

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Why don't you like Rick? Dec 29, 2019 10:32:13 GMT -6 via mobile Longship likes this

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Post by PurplePeopleEater on Dec 29, 2019 10:32:13 GMT -6

Dec 29, 2019 9:00:59 GMT -6 @theleviathan said:

Dec 28, 2019 13:23:30 GMT -6 PurplePeopleEater said:

How can you say Rick has built several championship rosters with such a putrid track record at QB? If there isnt a championship caliber quarterback, there isnt a championship caliber roster. It is as simple as that.

And to your downgrading comment, it is entirely possible we might downgrade. But downgrading from a proven loser, even if that proven loser has some bright spots, does not worry me when you also consider that we could potentially upgrade to a GM who will bring us a championship. That is the risk we absolutely need to take at this point.

Aren't you tired of being good enough to get into the playoffs but nowhere near good enough to win a superbowl? That is all we will ever be under Rick's leadership.

i'd encourage you to look at all the miserable GM failures around the league the last 13 years. Spielman has failed to deliver a Super Bowl, but he has delivered consistent contention as well.

I'm willing to take that risk after 2021 when the slate is cleaner for a new GM. Boiling his job down to one position isn't fair. It's a fair criticism, but not end-all, be-all.

Constant contention for what? For a .500 record? Because you can't possibly mean constant contention for the superbowl...

Pointing at all the other GM failures around the league to justify keeping Rick is a loser's mentality. No amount of bad GMs around the league will make Rick a good GM.

Not to mention, when you actually do look around the league at all the GM failures, Rick is in that group. And he has had far more years, drafts, FA periods and chances than most of the bad GMs in the league with the same middling results.

Also, i made this point before. If you are ok with firing Rick in 2 seasons, after 2021, you should be ok with firing him now. Or ASAP. After 13 years, you should know what you have with Rick. You should know if he is worthy of a 5+ year extension, and if your answer to that is not 100% YES, he should be let go now. Every year Rick stays here before his inevitable firing is another year older some of our young stars become, making it more difficult for the next GM to utilize the current talent on the roster. That is another reason why I want it done asap.

I think we are beating a dead horse here. You like Rick, and you are ok with being able to go 1 and done in the wild card round every two to three years because it means we will rarely if ever be as bad as the bengals, or redskins, or lions. If that is all that matters to you, Rick is your guy. But some fans have higher expectations and demand more than what this franchise has done over our lifetimes.

I appreciate the back and forth discussion. All I can hope for is that I'm proven wrong if Rick finds a way to stick around. But I would bet my life on being right.

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Why don't you like Rick? Dec 29, 2019 12:25:59 GMT -6 via Tapatalk Josey Wales likes this

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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 12:25:59 GMT -6

Dec 29, 2019 10:32:13 GMT -6 PurplePeopleEater said:

But I would bet my life on being right.

I went even further than that.............. and volunteered to wear Josey Wales 's "Gay for Rick" t shirt.....

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Why don't you like Rick? Dec 29, 2019 12:31:03 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan likes this

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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 12:31:03 GMT -6

Dec 29, 2019 10:32:13 GMT -6 PurplePeopleEater said:

Dec 29, 2019 9:00:59 GMT -6 @theleviathan said:

i'd encourage you to look at all the miserable GM failures around the league the last 13 years. Spielman has failed to deliver a Super Bowl, but he has delivered consistent contention as well.

I'm willing to take that risk after 2021 when the slate is cleaner for a new GM. Boiling his job down to one position isn't fair. It's a fair criticism, but not end-all, be-all.

Constant contention for what? For a .500 record? Because you can't possibly mean constant contention for the superbowl...

Pointing at all the other GM failures around the league to justify keeping Rick is a loser's mentality. No amount of bad GMs around the league will make Rick a good GM.

Not to mention, when you actually do look around the league at all the GM failures, Rick is in that group. And he has had far more years, drafts, FA periods and chances than most of the bad GMs in the league with the same middling results.

Also, i made this point before. If you are ok with firing Rick in 2 seasons, after 2021, you should be ok with firing him now. Or ASAP. After 13 years, you should know what you have with Rick. You should know if he is worthy of a 5+ year extension, and if your answer to that is not 100% YES, he should be let go now. Every year Rick stays here before his inevitable firing is another year older some of our young stars become, making it more difficult for the next GM to utilize the current talent on the roster. That is another reason why I want it done asap.

I think we are beating a dead horse here. You like Rick, and you are ok with being able to go 1 and done in the wild card round every two to three years because it means we will rarely if ever be as bad as the bengals, or redskins, or lions. If that is all that matters to you, Rick is your guy. But some fans have higher expectations and demand more than what this franchise has done over our lifetimes.

I appreciate the back and forth discussion. All I can hope for is that I'm proven wrong if Rick finds a way to stick around. But I would bet my life on being right.

Look, let's not do your third paragraph. I doubt there is a single fan here who doesnt want a Super Bowl. I doubt you want to be the Redskins either right? So please save that argument.

I feel like our team walks into many key games talented enough to win. What happens is they come out flat, get outcoached, or out schemed. Given that, I have to put those failures mostly on the coach not the GM.