Why don't you like Rick?

No what makes are OL look better is we beat 10 terrible teams not that they are actually better. That's why stats are misleading. Any one with one good eye can see our OL isn't close to top ten even if some dumb stat says they are.

This sounds a little like the guy who has been dating a woman for 5 years, knows he absolutely will not marry her and that she is not the one, but keeps her around anyway because he feels he might not be able to do better.

All of the points you make about Rick are not wrong. He is great at sniping late round and UDFA talent. But gathering and acquiring talent, and putting the right talent together at the right positions at the same time, are two different things. And you absolutely have to get the QB right, or none of it matters. For example, early in AP's career, we had a rather strong OL and run game, with absolute garbage at WR most years. And of course, garbage at QB as well. Then we transition into the post AP era, we finally have a very legit WR duo, and now we have a terrible OL and a bad QB situation. There is a common denominator there that has been constant the entire time Rick has been in charge the past 13 years. QB.

After 13 seasons, we have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly with Rick. While some of the good things he has done are enough for some fans to let him linger around, the totality of his body of work and very poor playoff results has me convinced he will not put a championship team together. Once that line is crossed for me, he needs to go, even if it might be difficult to replace him. We have to take that chance if we are going to find "the one", even if it means we might pick someone who ends up being far worse. That is the risk I am willing (and hoping) to take ASAP. It just comes down to believing that something has got to change. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. I think it is insanity to believe Rick will do in year 14, 15, or 16 what he has failed to do after the first 13 years.

What if you believe Rick did his job but Zimmer failed at his?

Not sure I want to get into these types of hypothetical situations, because its moot. I dont think Rick did his job.

Are you saying Rick has done an adequate job at giving Zim (or any other Vikings HC during his tenure, save 2009) a franchise QB capable of winning a championship?

And hypothetically speaking, if Rick did his job but Zimmer didn't do his, and Rick hired Zimmer, does that not mean that Rick in fact did not do his job?

If you have a more direct question, go ahead and ask.

Well, it was direct, but it was a hypothetical. I guess I meant a non hypothetical so that I dont have to answer based on "what ifs" or false pretenses.

I dont disagree with you. Zimmer has his strengths and weaknesses also. And while I would simply say he needs to go as well, I will make a counter point to your argument, which sounds to me like you think Rick is not the problem, but Zimmer is.

Zimmer hasn't had the QB and the OL to win a championship. Yes Rick has put a lot of talent on this roster. But he has not found the right QB, or an above average OL. I've said it before. Nothing else matters if the QB isnt right. Rick can go find tons of talented WRs/CBs/whatever else late in the draft. But the QB is far and away the most important part to a team being championship viable, as far as players go.

This is why I believe people are still willing to give Rick more chances. He has found enough late round gems over his tenure to pull the wool over your eyes and make you think that next year is the year and he is still the architect to build us a championship. But after 13 years, where has it gotten us? How many rings? The packers have one ring since Rodgers took over, and most people think that is a major underachievement, despite an obvious lack of talent around him. But that's because of 1 player. Rodgers. The QB.

Now Zimmer's issues are a totally different story altogether. You could argue that even if we had a franchise QB, Zimmer might f*ck it up enough on his own to keep us from winning. The amount of times his teams have come out completely flat and unprepared is astounding. I think he is better as a DC. But this thread is about Rick, which is where it starts for me.

Zimmer is Rick's hand-picked guy.    I have said the way to really judge a g.m is talent acquired and head coach hired.   Zimmer has produced a decent record and improved the defense, at least until this year when his clinging to his favored db's bit him in the ass.   But it's become obvious that Zimmer can't win big games, meaningful games, playoff games, really most games against winning teams.   Which leaves him being Jason Garrett North with the good year/bad year rotating record, etc.

I suspect that ownership will give RS another crack at hiring a guy to be HC someday but since they made the playoffs this year, they probably will keep Zimmer around at least one more year--another year of hope ultimately smashed by reality.   As much as people b*tch about Rick, it appears his strings are pulled from above and he doesn't really have a final say on who is head coach.   I know he wanted to ditch Les as soon as he was made g.m. and Wilf made him stick it out for 2 ugly years instead.  Maybe someday the mighty Wilf bros. will figure things out and produce a champion.  It usually takes them years to make incremental progress except where grabbing cash is the goal.  

That is what I was going to say too. Unless we have a franchise qb who doesn’t piss his pants when the lights are brightest, then we simply don’t have a sb caliber team. The ravens of 2000 and the 85 bears teams are the exception that are very rare and only come around once overt couple decades. You have to have a franchise qb who doesn’t melt when it matters most. Until we have that guy we aren’t winning a sb. And spielman long history he has never delivered a qb of that caliber, what makes anyone think he will bring that guy here? We can’t be afraid to change regimes just because the current one has been average to above average, but can’t deliver the championship this team is looking for. There’s really not much of a difference from going from dead last to runner up. They both didn’t win it all.