Kirk Cousins - Extension? | Purple Pain Forums

NoresemanSam
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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 11, 2019 17:23:43 GMT -6

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Post by NoresemanSam on Dec 11, 2019 17:23:43 GMT -6

Dec 11, 2019 14:50:32 GMT -6 6 said:

Dec 11, 2019 14:03:22 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

Yes, it is definitely kicking the can down the road with no pay cut. That's exactly what my example illustrated. This is how teams manipulate the cap to keep a skilled roster in place. My example was developed using the actual QB salary trends we've been seeing. If Kirk wants to stay in Minnesota (and I believe he does), he won't demand $40M - $45M. $30M - $35M would be more like it. Also, my example gave him $35M additional guaranteed money over the next two years, so essentially a one year extension into 2021 for $35M, with the team having the option to retain him for four more years without any additional guaranteed money. That's market rate right now.

That said, this was only an example to illustrate how extending him at market rates could free up 2020 cap space. "Borrowing" from future cap space is essentially taking out a negative interest loan, because the cap goes up significantly each year so that the loan can be paid off with a smaller percentage of overall cap space.

Your assumption is he will take a pay cut, my assumption is he wont.

Kirk's current contract has an average annual payout of $28M and next year (the final year) has a base salary of $29.5M guaranteed. My example replaces that final year with a restructured/extended six year contract with an average annual payout ranging from $31M to $34M (depending upon the base salaries in years 3 - 6). It also increases his currently guaranteed money from $29.5M to $49.5M. None of this in any way reflects a pay cut.

"There is no one most valuable Viking. There are 40 most valuable Vikings" - Joe Kapp upon refusing to accept the team MVP award

NoresemanSam
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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 11, 2019 17:25:04 GMT -6

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Post by NoresemanSam on Dec 11, 2019 17:25:04 GMT -6

Dec 11, 2019 17:21:40 GMT -6 @keeniac said:

Dec 11, 2019 17:13:59 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

I never suggested that we give him a raise. I only suggested that if we were to approach his agent about any kind of a restructure, they would likely insist on more money (because they can). That would most typically be us giving him more money in the form of a guaranteed signing bonus in exchange for tacking a year or two onto his contract. To your point, that is normally unwise for a 31 year old player who is not a franchise QB.

Is he at the point in his career where he takes a pay cut like Brian Robison and other long time veterans did? It could be a dicey situation.

I liked BRob as much as anyone, but there is no comparison here.

"There is no one most valuable Viking. There are 40 most valuable Vikings" - Joe Kapp upon refusing to accept the team MVP award

6 Starter Posts: 599 Likes: 66	Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 11, 2019 17:29:25 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by 6 on Dec 11, 2019 17:29:25 GMT -6 Why the obsession with keeping guys until they are beyond worthless?

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 11, 2019 17:31:18 GMT -6

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Post by 6 on Dec 11, 2019 17:31:18 GMT -6

Dec 11, 2019 17:23:43 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

Dec 11, 2019 14:50:32 GMT -6 6 said:

Your assumption is he will take a pay cut, my assumption is he wont.

Kirk's current contract has an average annual payout of $28M and next year (the final year) has a base salary of $29.5M guaranteed. My example replaces that final year with a restructured/extended six year contract with an average annual payout ranging from $31M to $34M (depending upon the base salaries in years 3 - 6). It also increases his currently guaranteed money from $29.5M to $49.5M. None of this in any way reflects a pay cut.

So you want offer him a 1 year deal a team option for 4 more? I do not believe for a second, Cousins wont laugh the Vikings out of the building. And I have no faith in the Vikings in such a deal.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 11, 2019 17:37:03 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikingpitbull on Dec 11, 2019 17:37:03 GMT -6

He ain't moving off his contract. He set it up to line up with the new CBA and also to be fully guaranteed with no trade clause for a reason.

One thing he does well is get paid. He's not as smart as Bradford but he ain't no dummy.

He can play hard ball and there will be no team discount. I would be shocked to the enth degree if he ever restructures. He did what he did for a reason.

Last Edit: Dec 11, 2019 17:45:24 GMT -6 by vikingpitbull

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 11, 2019 17:37:29 GMT -6

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Post by NoresemanSam on Dec 11, 2019 17:37:29 GMT -6

Dec 11, 2019 17:31:18 GMT -6 6 said:

Dec 11, 2019 17:23:43 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

Kirk's current contract has an average annual payout of $28M and next year (the final year) has a base salary of $29.5M guaranteed. My example replaces that final year with a restructured/extended six year contract with an average annual payout ranging from $31M to $34M (depending upon the base salaries in years 3 - 6). It also increases his currently guaranteed money from $29.5M to $49.5M. None of this in any way reflects a pay cut.

So you want offer him a 1 year deal a team option for 4 more? I do not believe for a second, Cousins wont laugh the Vikings out of the building. And I have no faith in the Vikings in such a deal.

It would not be a "1 year deal." It would be a five year contract extension including a restructuring of the final year of his current contract. All contract years are "team options" unless the base salaries are guaranteed. The scenario I described is very typical of extensions granted to veteran players entering the final years of their contracts. They get more guaranteed money ($35M in my example*) in exchange for locking in a new base salary for additional contract years. And no, I don't think that Kirk would laugh at this type of an offer. It is market driven and provides significant up front guaranteed money. Guaranteed money is what NFL players focus on the most, because very little else is guaranteed in the NFL.

I will add that the term "restructure" generally does not involve a pay cut. It may reduce some base salaries, but the players generally wind up with the same or more money due to the up front bonus money. The much less common examples are illustrated by Griff's recent restructure (took an immediate 2019 pay cut in exchange for giving the player the option to void all future years), Murray's restructure before last season (took a pay cut in exchange for simply eliminating all future years) and BRobs (simple pay cut).

*corrected

Last Edit: Dec 11, 2019 17:52:09 GMT -6 by NoresemanSam

"There is no one most valuable Viking. There are 40 most valuable Vikings" - Joe Kapp upon refusing to accept the team MVP award

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 11, 2019 17:40:48 GMT -6

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Post by 6 on Dec 11, 2019 17:40:48 GMT -6

Dec 11, 2019 17:37:29 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

Dec 11, 2019 17:31:18 GMT -6 6 said:

So you want offer him a 1 year deal a team option for 4 more? I do not believe for a second, Cousins wont laugh the Vikings out of the building. And I have no faith in the Vikings in such a deal.

It would not be a "1 year deal." It would be a five year contract extension including a restructuring of the final year of his current contract. All contract years are "team options" unless the base salaries are guaranteed. The scenario I described is very typical of extensions granted to veteran players entering the final years of their contracts. They get more guaranteed money ($20M in my example) in exchange for locking in a new base salary for additional contract years. And no, I don't think that Kirk would laugh at this type of an offer. It is market driven and provides significant up front guaranteed money. Guaranteed money is what NFL players focus on the most, because very little else is guaranteed in the NFL.

I am telling you, he ain’t taking it. What you don’t seem to think is that all the team options are the teams. Cousins wont have it. And Cousins current contract is a pipe dream in the NFL. If the Vikings want to extend, more years, more money and all guaranteed. Or way over pay him.

6 Starter Posts: 599 Likes: 66	Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 11, 2019 17:42:55 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by 6 on Dec 11, 2019 17:42:55 GMT -6 And his stats will be good enough where he cant hit the market and ask for the same type deal with a pay bump.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 11, 2019 17:44:11 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikingpitbull on Dec 11, 2019 17:44:11 GMT -6

I will say this as well he may take lesser money just like he did to come here. Just think what could be open for him with other teams. Teams that aren't in rebuild like the Vikings and may be closer to what he wanted with us. More opportunities to win.

Saints Colts Jaguars Chargers Pittsburgh Raiders Carolina Bears just to name a few.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 11, 2019 17:46:12 GMT -6

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Post by 6 on Dec 11, 2019 17:46:12 GMT -6

Dec 11, 2019 17:44:11 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

I will say this as well he may take lesser money just like he did to come here. Just think what could be open for him with other teams. Teams that aren't in rebuild like the Vikings and may be closer to what he wanted with us. More opportunities to win.

Saints Colts Jaguars Chargers Pittsburgh Raiders Carolina Bears just to name a few.

the trick to his contract is the full guarantee. Its not that he is highest paid or whatever, its he is basically untouchable from an organizational. Can’t trade him, cut him, and any idea of a restructure is laughable, especially where he helps the team while giving up his security.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 11, 2019 17:46:56 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikingpitbull on Dec 11, 2019 17:46:56 GMT -6

Dec 11, 2019 17:37:29 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

Dec 11, 2019 17:31:18 GMT -6 6 said:

So you want offer him a 1 year deal a team option for 4 more? I do not believe for a second, Cousins wont laugh the Vikings out of the building. And I have no faith in the Vikings in such a deal.

It would not be a "1 year deal." It would be a five year contract extension including a restructuring of the final year of his current contract. All contract years are "team options" unless the base salaries are guaranteed. The scenario I described is very typical of extensions granted to veteran players entering the final years of their contracts. They get more guaranteed money ($20M in my example) in exchange for locking in a new base salary for additional contract years. And no, I don't think that Kirk would laugh at this type of an offer. It is market driven and provides significant up front guaranteed money. Guaranteed money is what NFL players focus on the most, because very little else is guaranteed in the NFL.

I will add that the term "restructure" generally does not involve a pay cut. It may reduce some base salaries, but the players generally wind up with the same or more money due to the up front bonus money.

So would you front or back load another fully guaranteed contract?

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 11, 2019 17:49:10 GMT -6

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Post by 6 on Dec 11, 2019 17:49:10 GMT -6

Dec 11, 2019 17:46:56 GMT -6 vikingpitbull said:

Dec 11, 2019 17:37:29 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

It would not be a "1 year deal." It would be a five year contract extension including a restructuring of the final year of his current contract. All contract years are "team options" unless the base salaries are guaranteed. The scenario I described is very typical of extensions granted to veteran players entering the final years of their contracts. They get more guaranteed money ($20M in my example) in exchange for locking in a new base salary for additional contract years. And no, I don't think that Kirk would laugh at this type of an offer. It is market driven and provides significant up front guaranteed money. Guaranteed money is what NFL players focus on the most, because very little else is guaranteed in the NFL.

I will add that the term "restructure" generally does not involve a pay cut. It may reduce some base salaries, but the players generally wind up with the same or more money due to the up front bonus money.

So would you front or back load another fully guaranteed contract?

Fully guaranteed, and if he takes front or backloaded, and I doubt he would, you have to front load it.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 11, 2019 17:56:44 GMT -6

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Post by NoresemanSam on Dec 11, 2019 17:56:44 GMT -6

Dec 11, 2019 17:37:29 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

It would not be a "1 year deal." It would be a five year contract extension including a restructuring of the final year of his current contract. All contract years are "team options" unless the base salaries are guaranteed. The scenario I described is very typical of extensions granted to veteran players entering the final years of their contracts. They get more guaranteed money ($35M in my example*) in exchange for locking in a new base salary for additional contract years. And no, I don't think that Kirk would laugh at this type of an offer. It is market driven and provides significant up front guaranteed money. Guaranteed money is what NFL players focus on the most, because very little else is guaranteed in the NFL.

*corrected

I corrected this earlier post. My example actually reflects Kirk receiving an additional $35M guaranteed money upon signing. Most intelligent 32 year old athletes would certainly consider such an offer. I'm sure most of us would take $35M guaranteed to agree to stick with our employers for five more years. (roflmao)

"There is no one most valuable Viking. There are 40 most valuable Vikings" - Joe Kapp upon refusing to accept the team MVP award

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 11, 2019 17:59:59 GMT -6

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Post by 6 on Dec 11, 2019 17:59:59 GMT -6

Dec 11, 2019 17:56:44 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

Dec 11, 2019 17:37:29 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

It would not be a "1 year deal." It would be a five year contract extension including a restructuring of the final year of his current contract. All contract years are "team options" unless the base salaries are guaranteed. The scenario I described is very typical of extensions granted to veteran players entering the final years of their contracts. They get more guaranteed money ($35M in my example*) in exchange for locking in a new base salary for additional contract years. And no, I don't think that Kirk would laugh at this type of an offer. It is market driven and provides significant up front guaranteed money. Guaranteed money is what NFL players focus on the most, because very little else is guaranteed in the NFL.

*corrected

I corrected this earlier post. My example actually reflects Kirk receiving an additional $35M guaranteed money upon signing. Most intelligent 32 year old athletes would certainly consider such an offer. I'm sure most of us would take $35M guaranteed to agree to stick with our employers for five more years. (roflmao)

Additional 7 per year? Try 120-140 total 28 to 35 at best from org. POV.

Last Edit: Dec 11, 2019 18:02:59 GMT -6 by 6

vikingpitbull
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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 11, 2019 18:03:31 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikingpitbull on Dec 11, 2019 18:03:31 GMT -6

Dec 11, 2019 17:56:44 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

Dec 11, 2019 17:37:29 GMT -6 NoresemanSam said:

It would not be a "1 year deal." It would be a five year contract extension including a restructuring of the final year of his current contract. All contract years are "team options" unless the base salaries are guaranteed. The scenario I described is very typical of extensions granted to veteran players entering the final years of their contracts. They get more guaranteed money ($35M in my example*) in exchange for locking in a new base salary for additional contract years. And no, I don't think that Kirk would laugh at this type of an offer. It is market driven and provides significant up front guaranteed money. Guaranteed money is what NFL players focus on the most, because very little else is guaranteed in the NFL.

*corrected

I corrected this earlier post. My example actually reflects Kirk receiving an additional $35M guaranteed money upon signing. Most intelligent 32 year old athletes would certainly consider such an offer. I'm sure most of us would take $35M guaranteed to agree to stick with our employers for five more years. (roflmao)

Depends what the top 5 highest are paid. He may do year to year deals. He also could easily have two more contacts so he may not go out that far. I think he likes the 3 yr deal. He also wants to win so he may take it in smaller terms to chase a ring.

I doubt Minnesota will be able to pay anyone that much guaranteed money.