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vikingpitbull
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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 16, 2019 7:27:32 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by vikingpitbull on Dec 16, 2019 7:27:32 GMT -6

Dec 16, 2019 4:09:51 GMT -6 ozzvic said:

I dont think people remember the nice low salaries of Ponder, TJack or Cassel and how well that worked out despite having a HOF running back to basically turn every pass play into single coverage. Cousins is constantly putting us in position to win almost every week. I'll be the first to say he's had a few stinkers along the way but he's helped this team win a lot more then he's lost. I dont think a 4 year 100 million extension is that crazy. Yes he has weapons here and maybe he's in a good system but if thats the case then why screw with that by bringing in someone who might not gel with the system the way Cousins has? Also isnt this like his 5th OC in 6 years, maybe let the guy settle into the Stefanski/Kubiak system for more then a year before looking into drafting his replacement.

Those QBs wouldn't have won with 21 HOFers next to them. We also had to have low budget QBs because a RB was making QB pay and our GM had no idea how to pick a QB.

Kirk also has 7 wins vs the NFCE and AFCW. Let's not act like we have beaten any quality teams this year.

Kirk like Zimmer puts us in position vs bad teams and chokes vs winning teams. We will see if that trend continues the last 2 wks.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 16, 2019 7:37:33 GMT -6

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on Dec 16, 2019 7:37:33 GMT -6

Dec 15, 2019 23:43:22 GMT -6 6 said:

Dec 15, 2019 12:49:11 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

Did you even read it... something about IF he understands... and IF he's all about the money... I had a course of action for each, and I'm perfectly content taking either one.

He might give the team a discount. He might take less money than he would on the open market. He not going to take 125 over 7 yrs. the discount you will if you get one will be 5 for 180-200 and guaranteed, pending who signs what contract before that moment. If he has another season of stats like this and he gets this team to 2 NFC SHIP games it will be 5 for 225 230 and fully guaranteed and that would be his discount. And to that I would say SEE YA!
We are not going to see eye to eye on this. I know you think he will see the error of his way and take a team friendly deal. I would argue their is nothing in his past, much like the winning, that suggest the fairy tale you present.

You really need to work on your reading comprehension and respond to what people are writing.

I didn't present a fairy tale. I said what I would need to see if he were to be extended. I'm not going to pretend to know what KC will do, though if history is any indication, he'll be playing elsewhere in 2021. I said that if he's all about the money in the scenario you just presented that I'd wish him good luck. No fairy tales... just a scenario where I keep him and one where I let him walk without any commentary on what I want to have happen or what I think will happen.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 16, 2019 8:08:21 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Dec 16, 2019 8:08:21 GMT -6

Dec 16, 2019 4:09:51 GMT -6 ozzvic said:

I dont think people remember the nice low salaries of Ponder, TJack or Cassel and how well that worked out despite having a HOF running back to basically turn every pass play into single coverage. Cousins is constantly putting us in position to win almost every week. I'll be the first to say he's had a few stinkers along the way but he's helped this team win a lot more then he's lost. I dont think a 4 year 100 million extension is that crazy. Yes he has weapons here and maybe he's in a good system but if thats the case then why screw with that by bringing in someone who might not gel with the system the way Cousins has? Also isnt this like his 5th OC in 6 years, maybe let the guy settle into the Stefanski/Kubiak system for more then a year before looking into drafting his replacement.

If he proves worth extending, there is 0 chance he takes 4 years 100 million. He would only take that deal if he loses the next 1 or 2 regular season games in embarrassing fashion and then loses in the playoffs. In which case we should absolutely not extend him.

If he plays great to end the year, significantly better than he did yesterday, and competes in the playoffs, than it will take a 5 year 170+ million contract to extend him. 32 million plus per year. If he wins a SB I am okay with that. We will have finally won one and he should be rewarded for it. If not, good luck winning one over the next 6 years with that contract on the books.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 16, 2019 9:16:36 GMT -6

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Post by Raptorman on Dec 16, 2019 9:16:36 GMT -6

Dec 15, 2019 22:35:15 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Dec 15, 2019 9:34:00 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Why isn't he a top tier QB? Oh yeah, he doesn't have the wins. That's right. A QB can only be a top tier if he wins. 4,000 yards and 30 TD's a year don't mean squat unless you win. Stafford's numbers are right in line with Rodgers and Wilson. Except of course his win loss ratio. Which according to you, is once again is his fault. Because he is not a top tier QB. Never mind that in his career in Detroit that Detroit defense gives up 24 ppg. Because after all, Stafford doesn't win. And if Brees, Rodgers and Wilson are top tier, why do they only one 1 Super Bowl apiece? 34 years of playing between those 3 QB's and 4 Super Bowl appearances and 3 wins. Brady has 20 years of playing, 9 Super Bowl appearance and 6 wins. Tell us, what's the difference?

Since 2009, Stafford is tied for first in pick 6s, has the 22nd lowest int %, Td % at 21st,YPA 21st, and is 20th in career passer rating among QBs with 40+ starts in that time frame. He throws the ball a lot and has the volume stats, but he also throws a ton of picks and puts his team in bad spots. He isn't top tier, he probably isn't even in that 2nd tier, but it is debatable.

Rodgers and Brees haven't won more than 2 because they are paid such a high percentage of the cap, and it is difficult to put a great team around them. Brady is an example of what happens when you put the GOAT QB with the GOAT HC. All at a discount mind you.

That is why you dont pay above average QBs 30+ million right? If it stops greats like Brees and Rodgers from winning, what chance is there with Cousins?

From 2011-2018 Rodgers contract was never more than 12% of the Cap. During that time period, of the next 5 players, at least 3 of them were defensive players.

Contracts in millions.

	Rodgers	Brady	Diff
2011	 7.7	12.9	 5.2
2012	 8.5	 8.0	-0.5
2013	11.6	13.8	 2.2
2014	12.5	14.8	 2.3
2015	18.2	14.0	-4.2
2015	19.2	13.8	-5.4
2017	20.3	14.0	-6.3
2018	20.9	22.0	 1.1

Last Edit: Dec 16, 2019 9:36:12 GMT -6 by Raptorman

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 16, 2019 12:13:28 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Dec 16, 2019 12:13:28 GMT -6

Dec 16, 2019 9:16:36 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Dec 15, 2019 22:35:15 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Since 2009, Stafford is tied for first in pick 6s, has the 22nd lowest int %, Td % at 21st,YPA 21st, and is 20th in career passer rating among QBs with 40+ starts in that time frame. He throws the ball a lot and has the volume stats, but he also throws a ton of picks and puts his team in bad spots. He isn't top tier, he probably isn't even in that 2nd tier, but it is debatable.

Rodgers and Brees haven't won more than 2 because they are paid such a high percentage of the cap, and it is difficult to put a great team around them. Brady is an example of what happens when you put the GOAT QB with the GOAT HC. All at a discount mind you.

That is why you dont pay above average QBs 30+ million right? If it stops greats like Brees and Rodgers from winning, what chance is there with Cousins?

From 2011-2018 Rodgers contract was never more than 12% of the Cap. During that time period, of the next 5 players, at least 3 of them were defensive players.

Contracts in millions.

	Rodgers	Brady	Diff
2011	 7.7	12.9	 5.2
2012	 8.5	 8.0	-0.5
2013	11.6	13.8	 2.2
2014	12.5	14.8	 2.3
2015	18.2	14.0	-4.2
2015	19.2	13.8	-5.4
2017	20.3	14.0	-6.3
2018	20.9	22.0	 1.1

Rodgers made 17.5 in 2014 not 12.5. He made over 12 % in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 but you are right, he didn't in 2018 where he only made 11.4%.

If you were trying to prove that we are overpaying for a QB (15+% of the cap) that isn't nearly as good as Rodgers or Brady, I think you did a nice job of that.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 16, 2019 12:41:38 GMT -6 IAVike likes this

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Post by Raptorman on Dec 16, 2019 12:41:38 GMT -6

Dec 16, 2019 12:13:28 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Dec 16, 2019 9:16:36 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

From 2011-2018 Rodgers contract was never more than 12% of the Cap. During that time period, of the next 5 players, at least 3 of them were defensive players.

Contracts in millions.

	Rodgers	Brady	Diff
2011	 7.7	12.9	 5.2
2012	 8.5	 8.0	-0.5
2013	11.6	13.8	 2.2
2014	12.5	14.8	 2.3
2015	18.2	14.0	-4.2
2015	19.2	13.8	-5.4
2017	20.3	14.0	-6.3
2018	20.9	22.0	 1.1

Rodgers made 17.5 in 2014 not 12.5. He made over 12 % in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 but you are right, he didn't in 2018 where he only made 11.4%.

If you were trying to prove that we are overpaying for a QB (15+% of the cap) that isn't nearly as good as Rodgers or Brady, I think you did a nice job of that.

Fact is Rodgers contract never hurt the Packers from signing anyone. Most of the Packers player after Rodgers, were defensive players. It' a BS argument. First, you need a top QB to win, Which Cousins isn't according to many, Then, paying to have top QB hurts paying the defense so you can't win. So which is it?

You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 16, 2019 12:53:16 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Dec 16, 2019 12:53:16 GMT -6

Dec 16, 2019 12:41:38 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Dec 16, 2019 12:13:28 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Rodgers made 17.5 in 2014 not 12.5. He made over 12 % in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 but you are right, he didn't in 2018 where he only made 11.4%.

If you were trying to prove that we are overpaying for a QB (15+% of the cap) that isn't nearly as good as Rodgers or Brady, I think you did a nice job of that.

Fact is Rodgers contract never hurt the Packers from signing anyone. Most of the Packers player after Rodgers, were defensive players. It' a BS argument. First, you need a top QB to win, Which Cousins isn't according to many, Then, paying to have top QB hurts paying the defense so you can't win. So which is it?

That is not a fact, it is your opinion. An opinion that is incorrect. The Packers would have spent more in FA or on retaining more players with more cap to use. It is silly to argue otherwise.

Paying a single defensive player a high percentage of the cap isn't a good move either. Who argued it was?

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 16, 2019 14:08:05 GMT -6

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Post by Raptorman on Dec 16, 2019 14:08:05 GMT -6

Dec 16, 2019 12:53:16 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Dec 16, 2019 12:41:38 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Fact is Rodgers contract never hurt the Packers from signing anyone. Most of the Packers player after Rodgers, were defensive players. It' a BS argument. First, you need a top QB to win, Which Cousins isn't according to many, Then, paying to have top QB hurts paying the defense so you can't win. So which is it?

That is not a fact, it is your opinion. An opinion that is incorrect. The Packers would have spent more in FA or on retaining more players with more cap to use. It is silly to argue otherwise.

Paying a single defensive player a high percentage of the cap isn't a good move either. Who argued it was?

Fact. The Packers have been between $5 and $12 million below the cap since 2011. They never went into FA with their old GM. I think he signed like 3 people in FA in 10 years. They have had the money to sign people. To claim that Rodgers contract prevented them from signing anyone is BS.

You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you are not capable of great violence, you are not peaceful, you are harmless.

Funkytown Owner Purple Pain Big Dog Posts: 67,661 Likes: 31,587 Fan Since: 1998	Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 16, 2019 14:14:34 GMT -6 NoresemanSam likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Funkytown on Dec 16, 2019 14:14:34 GMT -6

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 16, 2019 14:23:37 GMT -6

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Post by whoskmoon on Dec 16, 2019 14:23:37 GMT -6

Dec 16, 2019 14:14:34 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

He is tied for 7th most, not 6th.

Jameis Winston has the 2nd most this year. Some team, probably is the Bucs, are going to make the mistake of giving that guy 150 million dollars this offseason. Poor bastards.

Last Edit: Dec 16, 2019 14:28:28 GMT -6 by whoskmoon

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 16, 2019 18:09:11 GMT -6

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Post by lc34 on Dec 16, 2019 18:09:11 GMT -6

I am not against signing him or for it. The problem I see is what owners are dishing out of QBs anyhow. The only way to be happy with the money you give and what you get from your QB (or most positions) is when they are in rookie deals. But lets face it, you don't get as lucky as Seattle did with Wilson, so most times you will have to overpay for a QB. That being said, when you overpay for a QB most of the time there aren't Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Wilson type talents available in the first place as free agents.

So you have to overpay for guys like Cousins (who I think has done very well this year), or Foles (ugh), or Winston, Marriota, see where Im going with this? Who would we rather have? I was originally a guy who wanted to see what Keenum could do one more year. I was wrong. Cousins, I think, was the best choice we could make to overpay.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 16, 2019 18:10:29 GMT -6 via mobile lc34 likes this

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Post by whoskmoon on Dec 16, 2019 18:10:29 GMT -6

Dec 16, 2019 18:09:11 GMT -6 lc34 said:

I am not against signing him or for it. The problem I see is what owners are dishing out of QBs anyhow. The only way to be happy with the money you give and what you get from your QB (or most positions) is when they are in rookie deals. But lets face it, you don't get as lucky as Seattle did with Wilson, so most times you will have to overpay for a QB. That being said, when you overpay for a QB most of the time there aren't Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Wilson type talents available in the first place as free agents.

So you have to overpay for guys like Cousins (who I think has done very well this year), or Foles (ugh), or Winston, Marriota, see where Im going with this? Who would we rather have? I was originally a guy who wanted to see what Keenum could do one more year. I was wrong. Cousins, I think, was the best choice we could make to overpay.

I would rather have Jackson myself.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 16, 2019 18:17:28 GMT -6

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Post by lc34 on Dec 16, 2019 18:17:28 GMT -6

He is lighting up the league that's for sure. But the running scares the heck out of me, we saw that with Culpepper, Washington saw it with Griffin, Atlanta with Vick. I guess every player is one bad hit away from the season and speed ender though.

Purple Pain Hall of Fame Nominee Posts: 8,744 Likes: 2,881	Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 17, 2019 22:08:03 GMT -6 NoresemanSam likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Purple Pain on Dec 17, 2019 22:08:03 GMT -6

Funkytown Owner Purple Pain Big Dog Posts: 67,661 Likes: 31,587 Fan Since: 1998	Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 18, 2019 16:14:47 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Funkytown on Dec 18, 2019 16:14:47 GMT -6