Kirk Cousins - Extension? | Purple Pain Forums

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 14, 2019 12:58:56 GMT -6

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Post by 6 on Dec 14, 2019 12:58:56 GMT -6

Dec 14, 2019 12:18:35 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Dec 14, 2019 11:58:01 GMT -6 6 said:

its not that simple.its not just talent. You are building a team. Not accumulating talent. Huge difference. If everbody is not rowing in coordination, the talent, the coordination, x and o's, disclipline gets magnified on the field.

In other words, people other than the QB have to do with wins and losses. Wow. What the hell do you think I have been saying? The "elite" QB will get you to the Super Bowl is a myth. Plain and simple. You need a good QB that doesn't make stupid mistakes. The Patriots have been doing it for 20 years. Brady doesn't play and the drop off in wins was what? Zero. So Matt Cassel gets a good contract to go to KC and does what? Oh yeah, 4-11.(26.8 ppg on defense but we won't talk about that). The following year he goes 10-5. (defense give up 20.3 ppg, imagine that)

That's my whole point. It's a freaking team game. The QB is important in that he doesn't make stupid mistake in turning the ball over. He doesn't' have to throw for 5,000 yards a year, or 50 TD's.

If the qb is about his stats a.k.a his contract, a.k.a his staus, team is gonna have problems.

Funkytown Owner Purple Pain Big Dog Posts: 67,661 Likes: 31,587 Fan Since: 1998	Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 14, 2019 14:38:45 GMT -6 NoresemanSam likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Funkytown on Dec 14, 2019 14:38:45 GMT -6 I'd be curious if these guys thought this BEFORE this year, but it's still interesting that people in the NFL world think very highly of Cousins, especially compared to the average fan.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 14, 2019 14:47:51 GMT -6 Funkytown likes this

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Post by NoresemanSam on Dec 14, 2019 14:47:51 GMT -6

Dec 14, 2019 14:38:45 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

I'd be curious if these guys thought this BEFORE this year, but it's still interesting that people in the NFL world think very highly of Cousins, especially compared to the average fan.

Oddly enough, I think it is only the average *viking*

fan that doesn't like Kirk. A mystery that may never be solved.... *skeptic*

"There is no one most valuable Viking. There are 40 most valuable Vikings" - Joe Kapp upon refusing to accept the team MVP award

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 14, 2019 17:44:25 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by whoskmoon on Dec 14, 2019 17:44:25 GMT -6

Dec 14, 2019 11:23:05 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Dec 14, 2019 9:46:59 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Anyone else find it ironic that people who argue that paying our QB over twice as much as the next highest paid player on the team, typically also argue the QB doesn't really impact wins and losses?

How can you come into a thread saying defense and not QBs win games and then also argue we should pay the QB 30+ per year? Shouldn't we spend more on improving the D and just go with whatever QB is the most cost effective?

Who said that? I didn't. Personally, I think top QB's are overpaid. Period. Brady, Rodgers, Cousins. It's part of the myth that a top QB will get you to the Super Bowl. Yet at the same time some people complain that we didn't have a top QB to get us to the Super Bowl. You can't have it both ways. Either you pay for top QB or you run with a cheaper guy. Who will only be cheaper as long as he isn't winning. Case in point. Case Keenum. $2 million in MN. He wins based off a good defense, immediately hits a 2 year deal with Denver for $36 million and fails. Why? Because Denver's defense wasn't as good.(22 ppg) So they trade him to Washington, Were he fails. Why? Because the Skins defense (22.2 ppg) isn't like MN was in 2017. Of course, Washington switched to Haskins because Keenum couldn't get the job done. 100-1 odds he ends up with losing record by the end of the year. Currently he is 2-3. Defense in Washington is giving up 23 ppg while Haskins is playing. But he will be considered to be "coming along because he will win one or two more games than Keenum did. And Denver, Well they switched to Drew Lock who went 2-0. My bet, he doesn't win another game this year. Denvers defense is giving up to many points for him to keep winning.

If a top QB will get you to the Super Bowl. Tell us. Why is it that Rodgers, Brees, and Stafford only on have 2 between them in all the years they have been playing. These 3 lead the league year in and year out in stats. Phillip Rivers has 10 years were he threw for more than 4,000 yards. and 30 TD's. Why doesn't he have a Super Bowl? Stafford, Same thing, 4,500 yards a year and 28 TDS. Not one Super Bowl. Please, explain why these players don't have a Super Bowl. Their numbers are in line with Brady's, Most of the time even better than Brady's.

Why are they not winning?

You think Stafford is a great QB? That explains a lot. He isn't bad, but he is not a top tier guy like a Wilson, Brees, Rodgers and Brady.

Again you are talking in circles though. Why should you pay a QB as much as Cousins is going to want if the QB doesn't make a huge difference in a teams ability to win the SB?

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 14, 2019 18:16:51 GMT -6

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on Dec 14, 2019 18:16:51 GMT -6

Dec 12, 2019 9:39:16 GMT -6 6 said:

Dec 12, 2019 9:16:43 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Yeah you can. If the player agrees to it. It's a contract between the player and the club. People want the QB but they don't want the club to put themselves on the line to pay the player. You can't have it both ways. The name of the QB doesn't matter. I've pointed this out before. If Cousins had singed a 5 year deal with 84 million guaranteed and an average of 29 million a year people wouldn't have been b*tching. The guarantee is the same, but the length would have made it look just like other contracts. And everyone would have accepted it.

Jared Goff signed a 134 million extension with 110 million guaranteed, 57 million at signing, you hear anyone b*tching about that? His 2020 salary guarantees on 3/20/20 as does his 2021 for injury. But it's a normal contract so know one complains. IF Goff is injured in Training camp in 2020 and has to retire, the Rams are out 92 million for one year of his contract.

tell me if iam wrong? You want extend years same guaranteed $.
If that is your deal, Nothing about it makes any sense for cousins

We are not ram fans. But I guarantee ram fans are p.o

I'm not sure it would be the same guaranteed dollars... more, but a lot less over the entire contract.

Honestly, the more I think about it, it comes down to whether or not Cousins recognizes that his success right now is a product of what is being put around him... If he understands that, he's going to take less money knowing he'll have a successful career here and that we can use that cash to plug holes...

and we have a few of them.

If he's all about the money... let him walk and be someone else's mistake.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 14, 2019 21:15:51 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by 6 on Dec 14, 2019 21:15:51 GMT -6

Dec 14, 2019 18:16:51 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

Dec 12, 2019 9:39:16 GMT -6 6 said:

tell me if iam wrong? You want extend years same guaranteed $.
If that is your deal, Nothing about it makes any sense for cousins

We are not ram fans. But I guarantee ram fans are p.o

I'm not sure it would be the same guaranteed dollars... more, but a lot less over the entire contract.

Honestly, the more I think about it, it comes down to whether or not Cousins recognizes that his success right now is a product of what is being put around him... If he understands that, he's going to take less money knowing he'll have a successful career here and that we can use that cash to plug holes...

and we have a few of them.

If he's all about the money... let him walk and be someone else's mistake.

you are dreaming! Wake up.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 15, 2019 9:34:00 GMT -6

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Post by Raptorman on Dec 15, 2019 9:34:00 GMT -6

Dec 14, 2019 17:44:25 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

Dec 14, 2019 11:23:05 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Who said that? I didn't. Personally, I think top QB's are overpaid. Period. Brady, Rodgers, Cousins. It's part of the myth that a top QB will get you to the Super Bowl. Yet at the same time some people complain that we didn't have a top QB to get us to the Super Bowl. You can't have it both ways. Either you pay for top QB or you run with a cheaper guy. Who will only be cheaper as long as he isn't winning. Case in point. Case Keenum. $2 million in MN. He wins based off a good defense, immediately hits a 2 year deal with Denver for $36 million and fails. Why? Because Denver's defense wasn't as good.(22 ppg) So they trade him to Washington, Were he fails. Why? Because the Skins defense (22.2 ppg) isn't like MN was in 2017. Of course, Washington switched to Haskins because Keenum couldn't get the job done. 100-1 odds he ends up with losing record by the end of the year. Currently he is 2-3. Defense in Washington is giving up 23 ppg while Haskins is playing. But he will be considered to be "coming along because he will win one or two more games than Keenum did. And Denver, Well they switched to Drew Lock who went 2-0. My bet, he doesn't win another game this year. Denvers defense is giving up to many points for him to keep winning.

If a top QB will get you to the Super Bowl. Tell us. Why is it that Rodgers, Brees, and Stafford only on have 2 between them in all the years they have been playing. These 3 lead the league year in and year out in stats. Phillip Rivers has 10 years were he threw for more than 4,000 yards. and 30 TD's. Why doesn't he have a Super Bowl? Stafford, Same thing, 4,500 yards a year and 28 TDS. Not one Super Bowl. Please, explain why these players don't have a Super Bowl. Their numbers are in line with Brady's, Most of the time even better than Brady's.

Why are they not winning?

You think Stafford is a great QB? That explains a lot. He isn't bad, but he is not a top tier guy like a Wilson, Brees, Rodgers and Brady.

Again you are talking in circles though. Why should you pay a QB as much as Cousins is going to want if the QB doesn't make a huge difference in a teams ability to win the SB?

Why isn't he a top tier QB? Oh yeah, he doesn't have the wins. That's right. A QB can only be a top tier if he wins. 4,000 yards and 30 TD's a year don't mean squat unless you win. Stafford's numbers are right in line with Rodgers and Wilson. Except of course his win loss ratio. Which according to you, is once again is his fault. Because he is not a top tier QB. Never mind that in his career in Detroit that Detroit defense gives up 24 ppg. Because after all, Stafford doesn't win. And if Brees, Rodgers and Wilson are top tier, why do they only one 1 Super Bowl apiece? 34 years of playing between those 3 QB's and 4 Super Bowl appearances and 3 wins. Brady has 20 years of playing, 9 Super Bowl appearance and 6 wins. Tell us, what's the difference?

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 15, 2019 12:49:11 GMT -6

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Post by diehardtwinsfan on Dec 15, 2019 12:49:11 GMT -6

Dec 14, 2019 21:15:51 GMT -6 6 said:

Dec 14, 2019 18:16:51 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

I'm not sure it would be the same guaranteed dollars... more, but a lot less over the entire contract.

Honestly, the more I think about it, it comes down to whether or not Cousins recognizes that his success right now is a product of what is being put around him... If he understands that, he's going to take less money knowing he'll have a successful career here and that we can use that cash to plug holes...

and we have a few of them.

If he's all about the money... let him walk and be someone else's mistake.

you are dreaming! Wake up.

Did you even read it... something about IF he understands... and IF he's all about the money... I had a course of action for each, and I'm perfectly content taking either one.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 15, 2019 22:35:15 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by whoskmoon on Dec 15, 2019 22:35:15 GMT -6

Dec 15, 2019 9:34:00 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

Dec 14, 2019 17:44:25 GMT -6 whoskmoon said:

You think Stafford is a great QB? That explains a lot. He isn't bad, but he is not a top tier guy like a Wilson, Brees, Rodgers and Brady.

Again you are talking in circles though. Why should you pay a QB as much as Cousins is going to want if the QB doesn't make a huge difference in a teams ability to win the SB?

Why isn't he a top tier QB? Oh yeah, he doesn't have the wins. That's right. A QB can only be a top tier if he wins. 4,000 yards and 30 TD's a year don't mean squat unless you win. Stafford's numbers are right in line with Rodgers and Wilson. Except of course his win loss ratio. Which according to you, is once again is his fault. Because he is not a top tier QB. Never mind that in his career in Detroit that Detroit defense gives up 24 ppg. Because after all, Stafford doesn't win. And if Brees, Rodgers and Wilson are top tier, why do they only one 1 Super Bowl apiece? 34 years of playing between those 3 QB's and 4 Super Bowl appearances and 3 wins. Brady has 20 years of playing, 9 Super Bowl appearance and 6 wins. Tell us, what's the difference?

Since 2009, Stafford is tied for first in pick 6s, has the 22nd lowest int %, Td % at 21st,YPA 21st, and is 20th in career passer rating among QBs with 40+ starts in that time frame. He throws the ball a lot and has the volume stats, but he also throws a ton of picks and puts his team in bad spots. He isn't top tier, he probably isn't even in that 2nd tier, but it is debatable.

Rodgers and Brees haven't won more than 2 because they are paid such a high percentage of the cap, and it is difficult to put a great team around them. Brady is an example of what happens when you put the GOAT QB with the GOAT HC. All at a discount mind you.

That is why you dont pay above average QBs 30+ million right? If it stops greats like Brees and Rodgers from winning, what chance is there with Cousins?

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 15, 2019 23:26:51 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by IAVike on Dec 15, 2019 23:26:51 GMT -6

Dec 14, 2019 12:58:56 GMT -6 6 said:

Dec 14, 2019 12:18:35 GMT -6 Raptorman said:

In other words, people other than the QB have to do with wins and losses. Wow. What the hell do you think I have been saying? The "elite" QB will get you to the Super Bowl is a myth. Plain and simple. You need a good QB that doesn't make stupid mistakes. The Patriots have been doing it for 20 years. Brady doesn't play and the drop off in wins was what? Zero. So Matt Cassel gets a good contract to go to KC and does what? Oh yeah, 4-11.(26.8 ppg on defense but we won't talk about that). The following year he goes 10-5. (defense give up 20.3 ppg, imagine that)

That's my whole point. It's a freaking team game. The QB is important in that he doesn't make stupid mistake in turning the ball over. He doesn't' have to throw for 5,000 yards a year, or 50 TD's.

If the qb is about his stats a.k.a his contract, a.k.a his staus, team is gonna have problems.

Why?

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 15, 2019 23:43:22 GMT -6

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Post by 6 on Dec 15, 2019 23:43:22 GMT -6

Dec 15, 2019 12:49:11 GMT -6 diehardtwinsfan said:

Dec 14, 2019 21:15:51 GMT -6 6 said:

you are dreaming! Wake up.

Did you even read it... something about IF he understands... and IF he's all about the money... I had a course of action for each, and I'm perfectly content taking either one.

He might give the team a discount. He might take less money than he would on the open market. He not going to take 125 over 7 yrs. the discount you will if you get one will be 5 for 180-200 and guaranteed, pending who signs what contract before that moment. If he has another season of stats like this and he gets this team to 2 NFC SHIP games it will be 5 for 225 230 and fully guaranteed and that would be his discount. And to that I would say SEE YA!
We are not going to see eye to eye on this. I know you think he will see the error of his way and take a team friendly deal. I would argue their is nothing in his past, much like the winning, that suggest the fairy tale you present.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 15, 2019 23:51:13 GMT -6 via mobile ozzvic likes this

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Post by vikingpitbull on Dec 15, 2019 23:51:13 GMT -6

I dont think you see him sign anything different than 3 yr contract fully guaranteed again. His age he can get 2 more sweet heart deals that way.

I would be shocked if he budged before the new cba he stands to gain way more standing pat.

Don't think for a second players wont want more if they go to 17 or 18 game seasons and want shorter contracts and want more guaranteed money. More wear and tear means less years and less contracts.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 16, 2019 0:24:44 GMT -6

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Post by 6 on Dec 16, 2019 0:24:44 GMT -6

Dec 15, 2019 23:26:51 GMT -6 IAVike said:

Dec 14, 2019 12:58:56 GMT -6 6 said:

If the qb is about his stats a.k.a his contract, a.k.a his staus, team is gonna have problems.

Why?

You need everybody going in the same direction. A guy being about his stats is an act of selfishness, then it is your QB. It is not going to take long for that non sense to spread through out your team. Throw me the dam ball! You want me to play special teams? You cannot have that type of team and win. Everybody has to be willing to do whatever is necessary to win and the QBs has to lead the way amongst players. It is happening in NE with Brady to a small extent, as well as Rodgers, probably to and even smaller extent. But they lose the division and or a play off game in the first round, Both QBs will be biotches. One will be shown the door. If the coach is still their.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 16, 2019 4:09:51 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by ozzvic on Dec 16, 2019 4:09:51 GMT -6

I dont think people remember the nice low salaries of Ponder, TJack or Cassel and how well that worked out despite having a HOF running back to basically turn every pass play into single coverage. Cousins is constantly putting us in position to win almost every week. I'll be the first to say he's had a few stinkers along the way but he's helped this team win a lot more then he's lost. I dont think a 4 year 100 million extension is that crazy. Yes he has weapons here and maybe he's in a good system but if thats the case then why screw with that by bringing in someone who might not gel with the system the way Cousins has? Also isnt this like his 5th OC in 6 years, maybe let the guy settle into the Stefanski/Kubiak system for more then a year before looking into drafting his replacement.

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Kirk Cousins - Extension? Dec 16, 2019 4:14:55 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by ozzvic on Dec 16, 2019 4:14:55 GMT -6

Dec 16, 2019 0:24:44 GMT -6 6 said:

Dec 15, 2019 23:26:51 GMT -6 IAVike said:

Why?

You need everybody going in the same direction. A guy being about his stats is an act of selfishness, then it is your QB. It is not going to take long for that non sense to spread through out your team. Throw me the dam ball! You want me to play special teams? You cannot have that type of team and win. Everybody has to be willing to do whatever is necessary to win and the QBs has to lead the way amongst players. It is happening in NE with Brady to a small extent, as well as Rodgers, probably to and even smaller extent. But they lose the division and or a play off game in the first round, Both QBs will be biotches. One will be shown the door. If the coach is still their.

Rodgers is so high paid they cant afford a defense the last 6 years, constantly looking at refs to throw a flag whenever a defender farts & every time GB loses Rodgers throws the play calling under the bus if thats your idea of leading by example then your crazy