Football For Dummies (Football Knowledge Topic)

Minniman
Moderator

Posts: 13,606

Likes: 8,096

Football For Dummies (Football Knowledge Topic) Nov 18, 2014 7:47:12 GMT -6

Quote

Post by Minniman on Nov 18, 2014 7:47:12 GMT -6

It may be fun to discuss football knowledge, test football facts, or debate football history with other members.

I will start this topic off with a few questions:

If Kyle Rudolph lines up wide, is he a tight end?

If Rudolph lines up in the slot, is he a tight end?

Do football announcers often get this wrong?

Last Edit: Nov 18, 2014 7:52:09 GMT -6 by Minniman

Logic is the beginning of wisdom - not the end.

Funkytown Owner Purple Pain Big Dog Posts: 67,533 Likes: 31,461 Fan Since: 1998	Football For Dummies (Football Knowledge Topic) Nov 19, 2014 1:22:52 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Funkytown on Nov 19, 2014 1:22:52 GMT -6 Trick questions are...tricky! Can I phone a friend...? I choose to phone...Jimmy Graham.

Minniman
Moderator

Posts: 13,606

Likes: 8,096

Football For Dummies (Football Knowledge Topic) Nov 19, 2014 9:24:25 GMT -6

Quote

Post by Minniman on Nov 19, 2014 9:24:25 GMT -6

Nov 19, 2014 1:22:52 GMT -6 Funkytown said:

Trick questions are...tricky!

Can I phone a friend...?

I choose to phone...Jimmy Graham.

Ah ... the position of tight end may not be what the rules say now.

Very good information to bring into this discussion.

Logic is the beginning of wisdom - not the end.

PotGoblin
Jersey Retired

That's what I do, I drink and I know things.

Posts: 4,508

Likes: 678

Football For Dummies (Football Knowledge Topic) Nov 19, 2014 20:44:01 GMT -6

Quote

Post by PotGoblin on Nov 19, 2014 20:44:01 GMT -6

True tight ends from when I was a kid was a large bodied person that would line up on the outside and help block for wide receivers and outside runs. Very rarely where they asked to catch a ball. Much like the Sauce.

Today's TE's think they are glorified wide receivers just can't run as fast or jump as high (some exceptions). They would cry foul if you asked them to actually block someone.

Vikes fan 4 life, many decades and counting.

4th Quarter, 0:10 remaining, leading by 1, ball at home team 39, 3rd down & 10 to go,
Win Probability for the Saints: 99.76%.

Minniman
Moderator

Posts: 13,606

Likes: 8,096

Football For Dummies (Football Knowledge Topic) Nov 20, 2014 16:54:42 GMT -6

Quote

Post by Minniman on Nov 20, 2014 16:54:42 GMT -6

To be a "tight end" has two requirements.

1. The player must line up on the line of scrimmage - he must "cover" the tackle.

2. The player must line up "tight" - he must be off tackle (not split wide or in the slot).

A receiver lining up any other place outside of the tackle box is either a split end, if on the line of scrimmage (covering the tackle on that side), or a flanker if playing off the line.

Jimmy Graham had a fair argument, but he is going up against tradition.

Logic is the beginning of wisdom - not the end.

VikingsBoss
Ring of Honor

Posts: 5,259

Likes: 5,565

Football For Dummies (Football Knowledge Topic) Nov 20, 2014 20:15:40 GMT -6

Quote

Post by VikingsBoss on Nov 20, 2014 20:15:40 GMT -6

Nov 20, 2014 16:54:42 GMT -6 Minniman said:

Jimmy Graham had a fair argument, but he is going up against tradition.

Jimmy Graham had a ridiculous argument. For those who may not have known or don't remember, it was that he lined up as a "wide receiver" (in the slot 45% or out wide 22%) 67% of the time, and "tight end" just 33%. The reason this argument is ridiculous is...how often did Calvin Johnson line up as a tight end? Or Mike Wallace, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald or any other true wide receiver you name? The answer is: Less than 10%, sure they may have lined up tight in a goal line situation or fourth and inches...but on every other play they're in the slot or out wide. The Saints use four and five receiver sets with regularity, Jimmy Graham is too valuable to not be on the field in those situations. But, he's also lined up as a tight end in their two back, two wide sets, and other formations. The day Calvin Johnson lines in a three-point stance and blocks a DE on a sweep is the day Jimmy Graham's argument is valid. To say that, because a guy lines up in this position or that means he isn't the position listed on his football card, or player page on ESPN is a waste of time. Kyle Rudolph is a tight end, and an average one, regardless of where he lines up on the field...such is the nature of the NFL today.

The Cardinals have knocked the Vikings out of the playoffs! NO!-Paul Allen, December 28th, 2003

Minniman
Moderator

Posts: 13,606

Likes: 8,096

Football For Dummies (Football Knowledge Topic) Nov 23, 2014 15:46:05 GMT -6

Quote

Post by Minniman on Nov 23, 2014 15:46:05 GMT -6

Nov 20, 2014 20:15:40 GMT -6 VikingsBoss said:

Nov 20, 2014 16:54:42 GMT -6 Minniman said:

Jimmy Graham had a fair argument, but he is going up against tradition.

Jimmy Graham had a ridiculous argument. (snip) The Saints use four and five receiver sets with regularity, Jimmy Graham is too valuable to not be on the field in those situations.

He is valuable enough to stay on the field but not be paid as much as the other receivers?

I get what you are saying, but I also have to state that the criteria for a position is not what it once was.

Logic is the beginning of wisdom - not the end.

Minniman
Moderator

Posts: 13,606

Likes: 8,096

Football For Dummies (Football Knowledge Topic) Dec 28, 2014 12:07:58 GMT -6

Quote

Post by Minniman on Dec 28, 2014 12:07:58 GMT -6

Nov 20, 2014 20:15:40 GMT -6 VikingsBoss said:

Nov 20, 2014 16:54:42 GMT -6 Minniman said:

Jimmy Graham had a fair argument, but he is going up against tradition.

Jimmy Graham had a ridiculous argument. For those who may not have known or don't remember, it was that he lined up as a "wide receiver" (in the slot 45% or out wide 22%) 67% of the time, and "tight end" just 33%.

So you are saying Graham should get 67% wide receiver pay and 33% tight end pay? Fair enough.

The reason this argument is ridiculous is...how often did Calvin Johnson line up as a tight end? Or Mike Wallace, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald or any other true wide receiver you name? The answer is: Less than 10%, sure they may have lined up tight in a goal line situation or fourth and inches...but on every other play they're in the slot or out wide.

If Calvin Johnson lines up covering the tackle and within the hashes, what's the difference?

The key here is pass production rather than position. If Graham or other modern tight ends go into patterns as often as wide outs, why should they be paid less? If they rack up as many catches, receiving yards, and touchdowns as the lighter smaller players do, why should they be paid less for their production?

The Saints use four and five receiver sets with regularity, Jimmy Graham is too valuable to not be on the field in those situations. But, he's also lined up as a tight end in their two back, two wide sets, and other formations.

If he is so valuable, why is he not paid for his value?

In time, this will level out because the tight end position has changed in the past decade, and they will get paid more.

Logic is the beginning of wisdom - not the end.

Minniman Moderator Posts: 13,606 Likes: 8,096	Football For Dummies (Football Knowledge Topic) Dec 29, 2014 8:47:33 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Minniman on Dec 29, 2014 8:47:33 GMT -6 Question up: If the ball is snapped to the quarterback, and he hands it off to a right side wide out moving to a left side hole, what is that play called?
	Logic is the beginning of wisdom - not the end.

Minniman
Moderator

Posts: 13,606

Likes: 8,096

Football For Dummies (Football Knowledge Topic) Jan 2, 2017 23:47:47 GMT -6

Quote

Post by Minniman on Jan 2, 2017 23:47:47 GMT -6

Dec 29, 2014 8:47:33 GMT -6 Minniman said:

Question up:

If the ball is snapped to the quarterback, and he hands it off to a right side wide out moving to a left side hole, what is that play called?

Many announcers call it a "reverse", but it is an "end around" play.

To be a reverse, the ball must be handed off or pitched one way only to be handed off or pitched to another player moving the opposite way.

A single hand off to a receiver is an end around.

Logic is the beginning of wisdom - not the end.

Reignman Purple Pain Lap Dog Posts: 44,591 Likes: 30,509 Fan Since: 1984	Football For Dummies (Football Knowledge Topic) Jan 3, 2017 1:01:22 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Reignman on Jan 3, 2017 1:01:22 GMT -6 Damn, I had 2 years to answer that. I guess I was unaware of this topic back then :lol:
	Aug 8, 2024 18:42:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said: if sitting and watching something versus actually doing it made a person great at it, Reignman would be the next Ron Jeremy.

Minniman
Moderator

Posts: 13,606

Likes: 8,096

Football For Dummies (Football Knowledge Topic) Jan 3, 2017 22:33:16 GMT -6 Reignman and Funkytown like this

Quote

Post by Minniman on Jan 3, 2017 22:33:16 GMT -6

Jan 3, 2017 1:01:22 GMT -6 Reignman said:

Damn, I had 2 years to answer that. I guess I was unaware of this topic back then :lol:

Well, you can't say I didn't give you enough time.

Logic is the beginning of wisdom - not the end.

Reignman Purple Pain Lap Dog Posts: 44,591 Likes: 30,509 Fan Since: 1984	Football For Dummies (Football Knowledge Topic) Jan 3, 2017 23:03:02 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Reignman on Jan 3, 2017 23:03:02 GMT -6 It's kind of a reverse ... if the QB is rolling toward the receiver. The defense tends to shadow the QB and will drift that way with him, then BOOM, the ball is quickly headed the other way.
	Aug 8, 2024 18:42:12 GMT -6 whoskmoon said: if sitting and watching something versus actually doing it made a person great at it, Reignman would be the next Ron Jeremy.

Minniman
Moderator

Posts: 13,606

Likes: 8,096

Football For Dummies (Football Knowledge Topic) Jan 4, 2017 9:57:11 GMT -6 Reignman likes this

Quote

Post by Minniman on Jan 4, 2017 9:57:11 GMT -6

Jan 3, 2017 23:03:02 GMT -6 Reignman said:

It's kind of a reverse ... if the QB is rolling toward the receiver. The defense tends to shadow the QB and will drift that way with him, then BOOM, the ball is quickly headed the other way.

Dragging a dead body down the hallway is kind of dusting the wood floor too, but it doesn't count. The original question did not include a roll or a keeper.

If the quarterback becomes a runner and runs out of the tackle box one way and hands off to a receiver going the other way, one would call that a roll reverse or boot reverse. It is similar to the option reverse, but with that the reverse player may also throw the ball.

Until recently, no NFL team would consider exposing the quarterback to those types of plays because the quarterback loses some protection rules as a runner. Well, ... most of them do.

Last Edit: Jan 4, 2017 10:15:19 GMT -6 by Minniman

Logic is the beginning of wisdom - not the end.

Minniman Moderator Posts: 13,606 Likes: 8,096	Football For Dummies (Football Knowledge Topic) Jan 4, 2017 9:59:57 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Minniman on Jan 4, 2017 9:59:57 GMT -6 Let's see if anyone is paying attention .... Question: How many actual tight ends can be on the field at one time?
	Logic is the beginning of wisdom - not the end.